C's Misses?

ark

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
If you look for superhuman beings - look somewhere else. Logical. If you do not know what logical thinking is - study it. There are many resources. If you can't find one yourself, I can help you. Lawyers for instance study logic.
 
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moyal

Jedi
1.28 Logic
Logical proofs have had an irresistible suggestive influence on reason. They fascinated not just the antiquity but also scholasticism. Euklides’ mathematical induction was for a long time looked upon as a model of scientific presentation. As Schopenhauer has demonstrated, the graphic evidence of geometry is superior to its logical evidence, which makes the directly certain indirectly certain. To this day Aristotelian formal logic misleads those who think that formal logic is a path to knowledge. But no knowledge is gained by that kind of logic. By logic you can only “prove” what you already know...
You can study on here: http://laurency.com/DVSe/ps1.pdf
 

lilies

The Living Force
Misses for the C's? I found that weird.. What misses exactly? Because those, who are actively in the process of doing various scrying experiments - like psychic Astrologer Gregory Paul Martin - I think have a vastly different opinion! He presents the following solution to this thread's topic:
We must strategically positively set our minds on / concentrate on favorable reality-outcomes, [concentrate in a disciplined manner on making] good decision-forks in the timeline, where the C's hit very often and ""miss"" just occasionally.
Our integrity and military-strategic discipline towards the Cosmic Reality and critical thinking, I think, largely determines outcomes of timelines and realities. He states that setting our minds toward available positive cosmic outcomes we stride towards those positive outcomes and it becomes our reality in the future. In Astrology, charts, when done by experts properly, mirror our reality and show ways toward future outcomes! Charts show vast available positive outcomes, only we need to strategically choose when is the best time to act, then we can reach those better timelines with discipline, control and will.
Control, discipline, patience, timing and will are the five attributes of The Warrior!

I wonder if we are experiencing a split of reality already. Some things are true for some and not others.
You kicked the worm bucket probably inadvertently:

Route Down:
I described those, who follow a Downward Path / Decrease of Being: they experience a gradual disintegration of all reality. They are "leaking" Free Will Awareness and are losing important memory details of the past timelines fast - that would anchor them to better_outcome_timelines -, like how a dementia patient loses a grip on life. These peeps on the downward route on the Ladder of Being, I think, develop Awareness Holes so their memory-awareness [increasingly] looks like a Swiss cheese. As a direct result - because they are increasingly unable to defend+hold their past timelines in memory - I think, the Lizards are actively deleting important details from these peeps' past timelines, which details should carry over and tie into our current timeline.

In all timelines through everybodies experience - be it a downward-path or an upward-path timeline - [I observed and remember] this entire group is there, represented via a sort of "Presence Reflection Connection". Just like how the C's described Soul-replication, I think. Somehow this group is there in the less-good timelines and in the good timelines as well, no matter the forks chosen via individual decisions. That is.. until some critical mass is reached and the whole reality collapses. Which the C's said happens when "The Presence" is no longer here. I think that's the Soul Group as well, because the Polar Couple is kinda non-detachable from their supporters / defenders ==> The Kings Guard. In the very same way, I think, the C's Group-Energize in order to maintain the 'transmission energy channel' for each session.

Regards erasing data from timelines, I think, Lizzies have to preserve the [what I can only describe as] "Free Will Contract". Meaning they cannot just erase details of realities-timelines entirely, because they are bound by the Quorum and the Laws of this Universe. So they work like the Ivy League Lawyers of our psychopath leaders:

But if the Lizzies leave a little nugget/anchor/weakened_fact existing/remaining in the timeline [contract], which I think must be adhered to - as if everything would be under the Judicial System of the Universe, written in a "Multi-Dimensional-Multi-Timeline Preservation Contract" - which must be kept at all times by all parties of the Quorum (by all STS+STO), because a specifically written/built-in Law of Free Will - governs this Universe.

So if the Lizzies keep at least a small bit of data, the original Reality-Timelines-Detail intact, but change it to a severely weakened version, then they can get away with erasing previous data, I think! The original was very pertinent: data which contained powerful words, which kept human minds energized and working ferociously, that original data is no longer there = was erased by the Lizzies. Just like how dictator governments erase the truthful publications throughout history, because truth holds power.

At least I can't find it anywhere even in my old archives on my computer. Everything - all archives - appear to have been retro-actively erased and changed to leave only the defanged-weakened version of the original data intact [allowed] to exist now. The original meaning of this new version, this edited-historical-multi-timelines-detail now is in shambles: its a weak ghost of its previous glory. A clever trick, since only people with a "higher-energized" memory can remember past-timeline facts that were changed significantly.

Route UP:
- the reality-timelines of overwhelmingly better outcomes -
Almost everybody presents their better version of themselves - strive for Increase of Being and achieves increased Being, thus all peeps experience a more powerful, confident 'Reality of Accurately Preserved Data'. Everybody has good "highly-energized" past-timelines memory. Anchestral-data is held in minds, paid attention to by same peeps, is focused upon, so [I think, this causes the] Lizards to not be able to erase/edit reality as opposed to the "Shadow Reality" version above. Therefore in "Route UP[ward on the ladder of Being]" evolving-reality through all timelines remains intact and does not lose important detail, like above and doesn't become a Swiss cheese, but remains a beautiful whole.

Transit <==> passage between "Route UP" and "Route Down" remains available [for salvation] as long as The Presence is here, I observed.

This is what I wanted to ask from the C's [are the Lizzies causing this "Temporal Dementia" / editing the timelines to erase history / is this Data Loss happening?], but the question is complex, as you can see. And I haven't delivered real worth to the Fellowship, that I wrote in my future plans section on the application form. That's why I'm waiting with this question.
 
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irjO

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This reminds me of when someone dared disagree with Laura in the post when Prince Phillip died. She called that person stupid and told them to leave as did the whole forum. Right or wrong, it was very eye opening for me. At first, I was sad and disappointed how the person was viciously attacked, but then I realized, that these moderators and administrators are no more evolved than any other human beings. They are responding with emotion. It's totally natural. However, I learned that this forum is not open to debate of any kind. They will call you unlearned and suggest you leave. Which is what is happening again here. But I hope othree has learned a valuable lesson here.

Evolved? We all are human beings on the same reality level. We all are learning, perhaps we all are not on the same page but we are on the same book (referring to our planet). And we are open to debate of course but not with an approach like yours and deftly if you are going to argue about at subject it’s with prove or facts on hands, most of the time when we “reject” something is because the person is just making strong assumptions and even being disrespectful in some cases.
About responding emotionally, that’s your perception! Projection.. projection..

The C's were asked whether Princess Diana's death was a murder.

Here is what they said:

How many threads are you going to open to make your point? What do you want to hear? Oh yeah! the Cs had prediction wrong! Happy? Now, move on! You are just trolling!
 

aragorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This coming from someone who has apologized to me about his past "non-calm" behavior?
How about you lead by example?


Talking about "projecting" ...
I've always regarded this forum as a research forum where where we put our heads together, discuss and try to figure out the truth of things (or as close as we can get) and also through feeback get to know ourselves better (doing 'The Work'). What comes to the C's answers and messages, I've seen them as no more than inspiration for this research (as Laura has pointed out several times). I've always found it strange that a number of members very seldom participate in the research and discussions – why are their missing out on the, IMO, most essential aspect of this forum?

You've been a member since 2012 and have so far posted only 137 times! And now you're telling others here how we should interpret what the C's have said? Wow! Where have you been the last 10 years when everything 'between Heaven and Earth' has been discussed and debated here? Sounds to me that you're used to have a 'free lunch', and now you're unhappy because the free lunches aren't good enough. Gurdjieff told us years ago that when people get things for free, without doing any effort, they end up being dissatisfied and even angry because they didn't get enough.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
and I would want the channel to be always correct and perfect, but it's not. I realize that I often forget that.
I don't think that there is a source, a book, an expert, anything which knows everything correctly at all times.
It's good that you answered your own implicit question here. Hopefully it can prevent some angst in the future.
It feels like there is a lot of emotional attachment on your part to what the C's are saying ....
That will be natural in a discussion like this, where many have an emotional investment in the Cs (this is a Cs forum after all), some others will feel alienated after have some illusions burst (as in your case), and others will actually not have much emotional attachment at all, for reasons already given by several posters - i.e., they already approach the material without the attitude of a true believer, or the need for certain answers. But so far you haven't seemed able to distinguish between the first and third options, instead jumping to the conclusion that all examples of the latter are in fact the former.
If no one believes that the C's are perfect or should be perfect and people don't believe them blindly, as you say, then a "miss list" or an examination of their blunders should not be a problem ...
I don't think it is a problem. I know I'd have no problem with such a list. I know you haven't read them, but Laura points out a handful in her annotated book versions of the sessions - along with speculations about possible reasons where an explanation may be discernible. I think you're expecting others to be as disappointed as you are when a Cs prediction doesn't come true, or they say something that turns out not to be true (or at least which the available evidence suggests isn't true).
and yet, judging from the triggered and hostile response by some of the "supermoderators" it seems that this is a problem ...
It might help to admit the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you might be projecting. Are you open to that possibility? (Even if it's very tempting to hold on to the idea that it's everyone ELSE who is projecting.) If you really think that people are too identified with the Cs, too emotionally attached, and unwilling to admit errors in the material, how do you think the best way to approach such people would be? Probably not the way you've been going about it. But that's not even the issue here. The responses you've been getting haven't been solely about the success rate of statements from the Cs; they have been to how you're communicating and how you're approaching the problem, e.g., the bit I quoted above about wanting a perfect channel, and you often forgetting that. If that emotional attachment wasn't there, you probably wouldn't be approaching the current topic the way you are, and you wouldn't be getting the types of responses you're getting.
 
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A Jay

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
This reminds me of when someone dared disagree with Laura in the post when Prince Phillip died. She called that person stupid and told them to leave as did the whole forum. Right or wrong, it was very eye opening for me. At first, I was sad and disappointed how the person was viciously attacked, but then I realized, that these moderators and administrators are no more evolved than any other human beings. They are responding with emotion. It's totally natural. However, I learned that this forum is not open to debate of any kind. They will call you unlearned and suggest you leave. Which is what is happening again here. But I hope othree has learned a valuable lesson here.

If this is really how you see this forum, its mods, and the work being done here then I can't help but ask in all serious sincerity, why are you here? If that's how I saw things I would've left long ago.

Look somewhere else. Wow. I suppose I'm not surprised. You did do exactly what I JUST said. No hard feelings though. I am learning everyday.

There's a number of ways to read what ark wrote. It's not surprising then that you chose to read it in the way that confirmed your beliefs about how mods and admins respond to critiques, criticisms, and negative opinions. Did you pick up that there were possibly other ways of interpreting it?

The way I read ark's response was that he was simply saying that if what you're looking for is a more evolved human then it's best to look elsewhere because we're regular human beings here. None more evolved, in the traditional evolutionary sense, than any average Joe or Jane. His final question really leaving it open for you to decide whether you will look for the more evolved humans that might be somewhere else.

He wasn't telling you or suggesting that you leave. He was asking if you would stay.
 
The C's themselves use Yes/No answers often enough ...
Exactly! In response to the state, essence and/or context, possibly to the “state” if you follow the Gurdjieff view of the person or persons making the query at the time given the medium of an English language vocabulary and all the underlying biases and preferences baked into such, but not as to create a new external authority (in my view), but one useful to examine in one’s own queries (life).
 

Jebra

Jedi
What would be the point of 'discussing' the C's misses? What would one hope to derive from such?

Sowing seeds of doubt and causing division at a time when we need to be coming together and networking. Since this helps certain hyperdimensional parties as we approach the changes the question is - is Othree being used as a vector of attack here? (This is just my opinion so feel free to disgard it).
 

Chad

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
What would be the point of 'discussing' the C's misses? What would one hope to derive from such?

Since each session has an entire thread devoted to its discussion, and other threads come about from those, i don't think there would be any purpose to discussing what othree perceives as 'misses'.

It did seem like it might be a starting point in helping othree but it's now clear that othree wasn't really interested in help at all but was instead likely contriving an opportunity to lash out at those othree perceived as to blame for her own thinking errors.
 
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