David Topí: New age corruption of Laura's material

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
My friend who is familiar with Lauras material, had a strange experience last night when at dinner with some new friends, one of them started talking about 7 densities, STO versus STS and such, and at first she thought it was Lauras material the woman was talking about, but it turned out that it is someone called David Topí who is making videos, doing classes, and have apparently written a book.

So my friend as she don't speak Spanish asked me if I could see one of the videos to see what it was, and my impression was that it was a lot of material taken from Laura, possibly some from Gurdieff, and mixed with general new age bla bla, and no links or references to Laura. I did a search here and apparently he is a forum member who hasn't been active since 2012.

I guess people will do what they will do with the material that is freely available here, though I think it is rude not to link to source, and it seemed to me it was the typical new age thing of truth mixed with lies that will keep searchers occupied with nonsense, and with dreaming they are STO while continuing their STS path. (though I don't claim to know the whole truth of how this universe and all works, and I only watched one video, and don't really want to see more)

I don't know if you are aware of this, but wanted to make sure, so here is a link to his website _http://davidtopi.com/
and the video I watched _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1rI9hMRzI

(it is all in Spanish)
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

He was indeed a member of the forum, this was his intro:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25853.msg308002.html#msg308002

It seems he's been inactive since 15 January 2015.

But curiously, his last post in his website, from 23/08/2016, talks about: the difference between illusion & delusion. (I've not read it yet because it is late here).

_http://davidtopi.com/de-ilusiones-y-espejismos/

This is an excerpt from the second paragraph:

"Leía hace poco que podemos definir la ilusión como una fantasía autogenerada en nuestra mente, mientras que la “delusion”, es una fantasía más bien generada o inducida externamente."

Translation: "I've read not long ago that we can define illusion like an autogenerated fantasy in our mind, while delusion is a fantasy externally generated or induced."

Is it a coincidence it was explained by the C's in the last session? :rolleyes:

According to my fb, Laura likes his FB page.
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

It isn't coincidence, i believe the post on his site and FB page are from yesterday.


He affirmed belonged to other formus and discussion groups, is he borrowing material from here and there to create his own with his own comentary? Would need to read through it to find out.

But the C's are not the only ones that speak or mentioned about densities. It just so happens the "coincidence" points to here. So you have a point.
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

Maybe someone else would like to read it, so I translated the text you mentioned Miguel Ángel, sorry if my english grammar is not the best :-[ feel free to correct any mistake.

There is a pair of terms in english: "illusion" and "delusion," that in spanish will be something like "ilusión" (illusion) and "engaño o espejismo" (delusion or mirage) that exemplify very well two ways of percieving things in our mind that induce us to generate fictional scenarios based on information presented from us, on one side, and information from the outside or by someone else.

I've read not long ago that we can define illusion like an autogenerated fantasy in our mind, while delusion is a fantasy externally generated or induced. If one creates its own stories in the psyche about whatever topic, from routines programed by the ego of generation of future scenarios, as we explained in previous articles, and believe them as true realities, we say that, that person is living his own illusion. On the other hand, if one is programmed by some of the many ways we already know: media, advertising, education, religion, etc., to believe something false, or to get on the bandwagon of the beliefs of other people, assuming them as our own truth, then we could say that we live in a "delusion" or "mirage."

In fact, in general, we all live our own illusion. We have seen it several times when we talked about the holographic model of reality, and how each one can mold its own. Why then categorize it as an illusion if, in reality, all that exists, and all of us are part of the greatest of them all? Basically because of the concept of reality or macro consensual illusion for everyone, because, to build on a common reality that more or less is accepted as a basic mold to order our life, when someone walks away to his own holocuantic bubble and distorts in his psyche the pre-set in a macro-level, it's when we start talking about this, that someone lives in an ilusion.

In a way we can say that the ilusions are an idea or false beliefs, misunderstandings, distorted perceptions of reality that have been imposed to us from external influences, or that we have captured from the collective unconscious and we have incorporated into our energy and mental system. An illusion may be to make me believe that something is white for me when it is actually black for the rest of humanity.

In general, many of the concepts and archetypes we work with in our daily lifes are part of large illusions that depend only on the point of view of the person who decodes them. This happens with the archetypes of abundance and scarcity, for example. In general, we can say that wealth is a sensation or feeling of "everything I need right now, and a little more." It is the feeling that you can trust your future in your personal world and that life will provide what you need. As everyone needs in every moment of their life is different, the definition of abundance has as many variations as there are people on the planet. Scarcity is, on the contrary, the uncertainty that what you're going to need will be available, and activates parts of the psyche that govern the competition, the struggle for resources, urgency, and sometimes despair. In a simple form, wealth makes you feel great and shortages makes you feel bad.

The funny thing is that these two concepts are also an illusion, depending on the scenarios that the person creates in their mind about it. A tremendously rich person may feel shortage regarding that colored paper we call money because his mental scenario thinks he has much more than he actually posses, and for the fear of losing it, while a simple hermit that has absolutely nothing can feel in abundance and with the certainty that he has everything he need in life and more. In the end, the definition is personal and subjective, and as such, cannot be measured by a common yardstick for all, but depends on the inner reality that everyone has created.

For obvious reasons, the feeling of abundance is the most sought by all of us, in all areas of our life, it provides peace, tranquility and security. But if ywe get this, it is because somehow there is something within us that does not naturally feel that peace, that tranuility and that security. How is that? I again find myself in the same place whenever I observe or self-anaylze me. If I do not feel naturally confident about my material world or any other aspect of it, where does this insecurity come from? Does it come outside of me? I look and find ways induced by the world in which I live and the system that shelters us, but I realize they are a "delusion", a hoax, as it is a false belief externally inserted in me. So, when searhicng, detecting and deleting patterns, programs and fractures that generate insecurity, what happens?, that have not changed not one iota in my material reality, the illusion of security is established and the other disappears.

This experiments make me think of the times I have had to undertake a new project, task or objective, and thinking that I would not have the means to do so. Program shortage somewhere, I tell myself. We look into the behavioral pattern, in the mental spheres, the mental body, here and there, and indeed scarcity programs are inserted by external influences. Another mirage. I bring them into the light of consciousness, we delete and remove, and, without even a single one of the resources I may need to undertake this new theoretical project or task, I have the certainty and confidence that they will appear, and again I feel peace that all is well in my world, and that somehow, as the saying goes, life will provide. The illusion of abundance relative to the delusion of scarcity.

It is important to be conscious that everything, once more, is forged within us, it all depends on what each one of us considers real in their world, and their world suits to whatever one decides its in the inside. And what leads us to believe otherwise always tends to come from outside, installed as a safety measure to avoid molding too much a common reality that has no interest, by other forces, tho be modified.

----original text in spanish-----

Hay un par de términos en inglés: “ilusion” y “delusion”, que, en castellano, serían así como “ilusión” y “engaño o espejismo”, que ilustran bastante bien dos formas de percibir cosas en nuestra mente que nos inducen a generar escenarios ficticios basados en información presente en nosotros, por un lado, o información proveniente del exterior, por otro.

Leía hace poco que podemos definir la ilusión como una fantasía autogenerada en nuestra mente, mientras que la “delusion”, es una fantasía más bien generada o inducida externamente. Si uno crea sus propias historias en la psique sobre cualquier tema, a partir de las rutinas del programa ego de generación de escenarios futuros, como habíamos explicado en artículos anteriores, y se las cree como realidades verdaderas, solemos decir que esa persona está viviendo su propia ilusión. Por otro lado, si uno es programado mediante alguna de las mil formas que ya conocemos: medios, publicidad, educación, religiones, etc., para creer en algo falso, o para subirnos al carro de las creencias de otras personas, asumiéndolas como nuestra propia verdad, entonces podríamos decir que vivimos en una “delusion” o “espejismo”.

De hecho, en general, todos vivimos nuestra propia ilusión. Lo hemos visto en varios artículos cuando hablábamos del modelo holográfico de la realidad, y de cómo cada uno puede moldear la suya. ¿Porqué entonces lo catalogamos como ilusión si, en realidad, todo lo que existe, y todos nosotros, formamos parte de la mayor de todas ellas? Básicamente por el concepto nuevamente de realidad o macro ilusión consensuada para todos, ya que, al tomar como base una realidad común que más o menos aceptamos como molde básico para ordenar nuestra vida, cuando alguien se aleja mucho en su propia burbuja holocuántica y distorsiona en su psique lo pre-establecido a nivel macro, es cuando empezamos a hablar de eso, que alguien vive en una ilusión.

De alguna forma, podemos decir que las ilusiones son ideas y creencias falsas, malentendidos, percepciones distorsionadas de la realidad que han sido puestas en nosotros por influencias externas, o que bien hemos captado del inconsciente colectivo y las hemos incorporado a nuestro sistema energético y mental. Una ilusión puede consistir en hacerme creer que algo es blanco para mi cuando en realidad es negro para el resto de la humanidad.

En general, muchos de los conceptos y arquetipos con los que trabajamos en nuestro día a día forman parte de grandes ilusiones que dependen solo del punto de vista de la persona que los decodifica. Esto pasa con los arquetipos de abundancia y escasez, por ejemplo. En general, podemos decir que la abundancia es la sensación o sentimiento de “todo lo que necesito en estos momentos, y un poco más”. Es el sentimiento de que puedes confiar en tu futuro, en tu mundo personal y en que la vida proveerá de aquello que te sea necesario. Como lo que cada uno necesita en cada momento de su vida es diferente, la definición de abundancia tiene tantas variantes como personas hay en el planeta. La escasez es, al contrario, la incerteza de que lo que vayas a necesitar estará disponible, y activa partes de la psique que gobiernan la competición, la lucha por los recursos, la urgencia, y, a veces la desesperación. De forma simple, la abundancia te hace sentir de forma estupenda y la escasez te hace sentir mal.

Lo curioso es que estos dos conceptos también son una ilusión, dependiendo de los escenarios que la persona genere en su mente al respecto. Una persona tremendamente rica puede sentir escasez respecto a los papeles de colores que llamamos dinero, ya que su escenario mental pasa por cantidades mucho mayores de las que posee, y por el miedo a perderlo, mientras que un simple ermitaño que no posee absolutamente nada puede sentirse en abundancia y con la certeza de que tiene todo lo que necesita en su vida, y más. Al final, la definición es personal y subjetiva, y, como tal, no se puede medir por un baremo común para todos, sino que depende de la realidad interior que cada uno haya creado.

Por razones obvias, el sentimiento de abundancia es el más buscado por todos nosotros, en todas las áreas de vuestra vida, proporciona paz, tranquilidad y seguridad. Pero si nos proporciona eso, será porque de alguna forma hay algo en nuestro interior que no siente de forma natural esa paz, esa tranquilidad y esa seguridad. ¿Cómo es eso? Vuelvo a encontrarme en lo mismo cada vez que me auto-observo y me autoanalizo. Si no me siento seguro de forma natural respecto a mi mundo material o cualquier otro aspecto del mismo, ¿de dónde viene esa inseguridad? ¿Viene de fuera de mi? Busco y encuentro programas y formas mentales inducidas por el mundo en el que vivo y el sistema que nos cobija, pero me doy cuenta que son una “delusion”, un engaño, ya que es una creencia falsa insertada externamente en mi. Así que, al buscar, detectar y borrar los patrones, programas y runas que generan inseguridad ¿que sucede?, que sin haber variado ni un ápice mi realidad material, se instaura la ilusión de la seguridad y desaparece la otra.

Estos experimentos me hacen pensar en las veces en las que he tenido que acometer un nuevo proyecto, tarea u objetivo, y he creído que no tendría los medios para ello. Programa de escasez en algún lado, me digo a mi mismo. Rebuscamos en el patrón conductual, rebuscamos en las esferas mentales, en el cuerpo mental, aquí y allá, y, efectivamente, programas de escasez insertados por influencias externas. Otro espejismo. Los saco a la luz de la consciencia, los borramos y eliminamos, y, sin tener aun ni uno solo de los recursos que pudiera necesitar para acometer ese teórico nuevo proyecto o tarea, tengo la certeza y confianza de que aparecerán, y vuelvo a sentir la paz de que todo está bien en mi mundo, y que, de alguna forma, como dice el refrán, la vida proveerá. La ilusión de la abundancia respecto a la delusion de la escasez.

Es importante ser consciente de que todo, una vez más, se fragua en nuestro interior, todo depende de lo que cada uno considera real en su mundo, y su mundo se adapta a lo que cada uno decide que es interiormente. Y aquello que nos induce a creer lo contrario siempre tiende a venir de fuera, instalado como medida de seguridad para que no moldeemos demasiado una realidad común que no interesa, por otras fuerzas, que sea modificada.
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

Felipe4 said:
It isn't coincidence, i believe the post on his site and FB page are from yesterday.


He affirmed belonged to other formus and discussion groups, is he borrowing material from here and there to create his own with his own comentary? Would need to read through it to find out.

But the C's are not the only ones that speak or mentioned about densities. It just so happens the "coincidence" points to here. So you have a point.

Well, I don't like that. I also think it's not a coindicence. If he is "stealing" material from Laura and this forum and he is using it on his own web page without mentioning the source ,its a form of stealing. By the way, the material is not completely transferred as it is but is mixed, or corrupted.
This is a red flag for me.
I also liked his page, but now I don't like this material stealing.
At least he can tell the source and then he can mention what is the original material and what is his comments or commentary on that material.
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

Konstantin said:
Well, I don't like that. I also think it's not a coindicence. If he is "stealing" material from Laura and this forum and he is using it on his own web page without mentioning the source ,its a form of stealing. By the way, the material is not completely transferred as it is but is mixed, or corrupted.
This is a red flag for me.
I also liked his page, but now I don't like this material stealing.
At least he can tell the source and then he can mention what is the original material and what is his comments or commentary on that material.

I have to agree. He is stealing and being dishonest about it.

However, in the present time, as energies are in such a state of flux, I suspect that his own attitude and actions will attract exactly what he deserves.
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

I actually remember Laura spending much time in answering his questions.

He gave me the impression of being a decent guy who was seemingly already acknowledgeable and deeply involved in inquiring densities specifics from what I remember. Aside from Laura debating his questions, she also mentioned several books to help him grasp important points, in which he seemed to have spent some time at least, since he would then base his ongoing questions upon what he had just read.

At that time and a a couple more times since he left the forum in 2013, I also watched some of his videos, which actually confirms his stealing of C's material, be it unwittingly or not, I don´t know. I should add, as someone here already said, that I didn´t find anything weird in the way he is conducting his conferences, talks with friends and teaching in his classes. It just doen´t go as deeper as we manage here, mind you, although I haven´t watched his further videos.

Also the fact he signed up in the forum under his real name and showing his actual photo made me think he had nothing to fear or hide. Of course it didn´t hit me by then that the same procedures might be used for bad purposes, like making himself known as very knowledgeable or professional.

Would it be a bad idea as to send him a mail in this sense to see how he assimilates and copes with such a contradictory level of being since he showed so much interest in that question? My impression and hope is that he might not have a clue that it´s all fine and dandy if he uses his readings mixed up with anonymous and ptb´s/sympathizers conspiracy theories, but that there´s a great length to go in ending up making use of C's material without authorization.

Thank you for bringing up this thread, since it´s now clear to me that I should have given the alarm myself after watching some of his videos. :rolleyes:
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

don't know about this guy, but have been witnessing many of the FOTCM Laura and G. and other writings rewritten by some other people without giving proper credits etc ... been author, or better to say researcher by my self, and knowing how that is really a misbehavior in any research conducted, I newer like that and that was a sing that person is just simply to focused on its own success, and less on the material presented ... and specialiy after reading Gurdjieff and tons of stuff here, books etc ... IMO first thing that truly get me on to is - to learn how to avoid identification ... https://thecasswiki.net/index.php?title=Identification

in that case, if a person decided to do the The Work, there is a hard work in front of him to fulfil this task of how not to get identificated by and with and to and for any kind of outer influences, or how not to be just a machine, but actually how to get to be aware of the machine ... so in that direction anyone who is trying to build personal monument, with rewriting those stuff without crediting sources, it is mainly driven probably by desire to look smart and awaken, or anyone who wants to be attached to certain group for the same purpose - to look smart or better or what so ever in that direction, just simply heading into the wrong direction of The Work in general, so it is not possible to do much about it form the source of knowledge, and giving knowledge for free specially means it will not be possible, or it is not even necessary to avoid those kinds of "stealing", as it is just in human nature, and on a way it helps to distinguish those who are basically investing more energy into the public presentation of their own experiences, than on singular observation of the mechanics on itself and sharing what is understood to those who want to know ... so once spotted, why to bother about them any more ...

Also this can be a good filtering of people who want to do it, but as no one is perfect, we can see that more will slip big into the STS paradigm on their search to become "awakened" and just few will left persistent to "torture" self with a palette of endless questions, practise observation and research ... and they serve the purpose to show how even the most stronger "warriors" can slip into the selfish needs of predator mind, as if I understood it right, we are all 3D STS with a potential to develop our being through Knowledge and through that process to become STO candidate ...
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

I cannot agree more. I find it both disturbing and upsetting that this situation is allowed due to the lack of regulation in the digital media marketing. I have been doing a course recently about blogging and digital marketing and apart from the web host rules, terms and conditions, any software related Eula And media related copyrights there is no internet legislation protecting against plagiarism. As far as I know. Moreover information recycling under increased dramatic titles but far less content quality is becoming a practice for increasing the number of hits and therefore monetization potential.
How can you prevent digital hustle? On the other hand the Sphynx in Egypt cannot prevent the dime a dozen merchants to sell its miniature replicas.
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

I have been thinking about the concept of stealing. On one hand it is so for everyone, that the sum of our knowledge is a mix of what we have learned from other sources, and our own experiences.

I think the way Laura teaches, by always quoting directly from the source, and telling who is the source, and if she disagrees with some of the information, says what, and why she disagrees, is the most admirable, and also the way that least of the original information gets distorted, but on the other hand, to my knowledge, Gurdieff did not tell his sources, and presented the teachings as his own, so maybe it doesn't matter as long as truth is presented..

But worse than stealing is IMO corrupting material. (stealing is bad karma for one self, corrupting is misleading others into bad karma for them)
To me it seemed there was some of that going on in the video.

For example:

In the video he explained that here in 3rd density we can chose to be either STS or STO, which of cause to some extend is true, as we sometimes can do something unselfish for others, but the problem as I see it, is than anyone who learns it that way, will think that they are the good guys, thus not do the difficult work of understanding that we are all STS, and this is STS planet, and it is hard work to become STO candidate..

And by the end he says that he is always accused of talking about the negative, but that there are STO forces from higher densities that will trow one a rope to help, as how else could we ever evolve. Nothing about that STO forces will only help when asked, or the hard work that has to be done to ask instead of demanding, or that STS forces disguise as STO forces.

Of cause he might say so in other videos, but it seemed to me (maybe I'm wrong) as taking all the interesting stuff from Laura and the C's that makes people go "wow" and then adding some sugar, so people will not be aware of dangers, and will not do the unpleasant part of the work, and so happily dream that they are awake, and be open to dangers of both STS forces and selfimportance, that is hard enough to avoid, even with working on the more unpleasant parts of the work, and listening to Lauras warnings of such...
 
Re: New age mixed with Lauras material

He uses the concept "programs" which is a concept we use here (i think the C's came up with that? idk), and he uses it in his accounts in the same context it seems.

At least some references to the material here would be a sign of respect, to give back to the source.


Miss.K said:
I have been thinking about the concept of stealing. On one hand it is so for everyone, that the sum of our knowledge is a mix of what we have learned from other sources, and our own experiences.

I think the way Laura teaches, by always quoting directly from the source, and telling who is the source, and if she disagrees with some of the information, says what, and why she disagrees, is the most admirable, and also the way that least of the original information gets distorted, but on the other hand, to my knowledge, Gurdieff did not tell his sources, and presented the teachings as his own, so maybe it doesn't matter as long as truth is presented..

But worse than stealing is IMO corrupting material. (stealing is bad karma for one self, corrupting is misleading others into bad karma for them)
To me it seemed there was some of that going on in the video.

For example:

In the video he explained that here in 3rd density we can chose to be either STS or STO, which of cause to some extend is true, as we sometimes can do something unselfish for others, but the problem as I see it, is than anyone who learns it that way, will think that they are the good guys, thus not do the difficult work of understanding that we are all STS, and this is STS planet, and it is hard work to become STO candidate..

And by the end he says that he is always accused of talking about the negative, but that there are STO forces from higher densities that will trow one a rope to help, as how else could we ever evolve. Nothing about that STO forces will only help when asked, or the hard work that has to be done to ask instead of demanding, or that STS forces disguise as STO forces.

Of cause he might say so in other videos, but it seemed to me (maybe I'm wrong) as taking all the interesting stuff from Laura and the C's that makes people go "wow" and then adding some sugar, so people will not be aware of dangers, and will not do the unpleasant part of the work, and so happily dream that they are awake, and be open to dangers of both STS forces and selfimportance, that is hard enough to avoid, even with working on the more unpleasant parts of the work, and listening to Lauras warnings of such...

I find THAT ^ alarming, the whole sugarcoating and glossing over serious details, which are discussed here sometimes extensively (by many minds together, and many perspectives form many walks of life, not just one) are not to be ignored. He's taking ownership of concepts he can't fully understand. and believing his own subjective "truths"(lies), and spreading them.
he should probably read his last post about Illusions and delusions .
 
I haven't watched or read any of this guys stuff, but is it possible that he's not aware that he's doing anything wrong? If it is of concern, then it might be an idea to contact this guy and let him know that it would be appreciated if he could source his information, so that anyone who's interested can research further, there are some Spanish speakers here, right?

If he decides to source to the material then problem solved.

If he decides not to, then we can be a bit more sure of who he is and what he's doing.
 
Occasionally, I watched some of their videos some time ago and I'd say it "helped" to me somehow to understand some concepts on a basic linguistic level at least, (especially because I was unable to understand a complex text in English) and he summarized some of the forum topics being discussed at the time and so on. However, I always listened it with caution so that I did not buy any of his new agey interference.
For me he's just another salesman selling his merchandise, though touting "forged" merchandise could even be worse.
 
Archaea said:
I haven't watched or read any of this guys stuff, but is it possible that he's not aware that he's doing anything wrong? If it is of concern, then it might be an idea to contact this guy and let him know that it would be appreciated if he could source his information, so that anyone who's interested can research further, there are some Spanish speakers here, right?

If he decides to source to the material then problem solved.

If he decides not to, then we can be a bit more sure of who he is and what he's doing.

If you read the whole thread from the beginning, it becomes pretty clear who he is and that he has made his decision to live in la la land and sell that to others. I see no reason why the guy should be contacted. Remember free will...
 
From what I understand, published ideas cannot be copyrighted, so as long as he presents them in his own words, he is legally safe. It would be different if he copied texts without attribution.

And it's a good point that Gurdjieff didn't reveal his sources either. I guess it comes down to the intent - is he doing this to aggrandize his ego or is he truly trying to present his understanding or experience with the teachings in such a way as to benefit Spanish speakers?
 
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