Did Frank Zappa truly say this about Chrisitianity?
- Thread starter durabone
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Nević Nenad
The Living Force
Maybe you want to read this:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/156554-Inside-The-LC-The-Strange-but-Mostly-True-Story-of-Laurel-Canyon-and-the-Birth-of-the-Hippie-Generation-Part-2
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/156554-Inside-The-LC-The-Strange-but-Mostly-True-Story-of-Laurel-Canyon-and-the-Birth-of-the-Hippie-Generation-Part-2
HiThere
The Living Force
Yes, I've read that article before and skimmed through it now. I don't find that the article is particularily damning towards Zappa. Quotes: "Frank Zappa was also a member of the Robert Heinlein fan club. "
And this : "In other news, it appears as though Frank Zappa also displayed some of the same less-than-admirable qualities shared by Manson and Paulekas. As DesBarres observed, “Vito was just like Frank, he never got high either. They were both ringmasters who always wanted to be in control.” And as Barry Miles noted in his Zappa biography, Frank’s daughter Moon “recalls men with straggling beards, body odour and bad posture who crouched naked near her playthings …” Also, the “Zappa children watched porn with their parents and were encouraged in their own sexuality as soon as they reached puberty. When they became teenagers, Gail insisted they shower with their overnight guests in order to conserve water.” Because, you know, apparently the Zappas were having a hard time paying their water bill."
I agree that this is a poor way to raise children, and one can't rule out the possibility of sexual abuse. But none of his children have been critical against him since he died that I know of; on the contrary 2 of his sons are travelling with a band playing their fathers' music. Zappa in interviews said he looked upon himself as a great dad. It is obvious that Zappa was a genuine eccentric and there is always the possibility that he was consciously evil in his conduct, but little evidence of this being the case has come to my attention. I was never one of Zappas biggest fans as I found his music to be restless and fidgety albeit with an astounding level of instrumental proficiency among the musicians in the bands Zappa led. I look upon him as a sorely needed critical voice against mainstream dumbed-down consumer america, but it is quite possible that he was only taking the piss out of us all. In interviews he could come across as devoid of emotion and empathy, reminiscent maybe of John Forbes Nash as described by Laura in Alomst Human. Zappa might 've been an OP, but he still managed to vocalize criticism of the kind of dumb duped consumerism that the USA now has successfully exported to most of the world.
And this : "In other news, it appears as though Frank Zappa also displayed some of the same less-than-admirable qualities shared by Manson and Paulekas. As DesBarres observed, “Vito was just like Frank, he never got high either. They were both ringmasters who always wanted to be in control.” And as Barry Miles noted in his Zappa biography, Frank’s daughter Moon “recalls men with straggling beards, body odour and bad posture who crouched naked near her playthings …” Also, the “Zappa children watched porn with their parents and were encouraged in their own sexuality as soon as they reached puberty. When they became teenagers, Gail insisted they shower with their overnight guests in order to conserve water.” Because, you know, apparently the Zappas were having a hard time paying their water bill."
I agree that this is a poor way to raise children, and one can't rule out the possibility of sexual abuse. But none of his children have been critical against him since he died that I know of; on the contrary 2 of his sons are travelling with a band playing their fathers' music. Zappa in interviews said he looked upon himself as a great dad. It is obvious that Zappa was a genuine eccentric and there is always the possibility that he was consciously evil in his conduct, but little evidence of this being the case has come to my attention. I was never one of Zappas biggest fans as I found his music to be restless and fidgety albeit with an astounding level of instrumental proficiency among the musicians in the bands Zappa led. I look upon him as a sorely needed critical voice against mainstream dumbed-down consumer america, but it is quite possible that he was only taking the piss out of us all. In interviews he could come across as devoid of emotion and empathy, reminiscent maybe of John Forbes Nash as described by Laura in Alomst Human. Zappa might 've been an OP, but he still managed to vocalize criticism of the kind of dumb duped consumerism that the USA now has successfully exported to most of the world.
hithere said:
hithere said:
Hi there, hithere, I would like to point out that a poor way to raise children is being a single parent and working 3 jobs, not letting sexual deviants (who else would shower with someone else's young daughter?) hover around lusting after the kids. That's something else completely, something people who aren't "privileged" would get locked up for. That's obvious, right?
hithere said:
All I know about Zappa is that he made pretty raunchy music and was, from the evidence in the Laurel Canyon series, a pathological personality. I'd say that the character of his soul ruined every word before it came out of his mouth. It's sad but I sometimes wonder if every person who was allowed to openly critique America isn't vetted for qualities similar to Zappa's. Take Bill Hicks for example; he was a great social critic, but the more I listen to him the more nauseated I get by his messianic and hate-filled tone. It seems that allowing Frank Zappa types, as opposed to John Lennon types, the freedom to critique, was a great way to vector free-thinkers into embracing pathological qualities. OSIT
John G
The Living Force
And people not as bad as Zappa could get tarnished in the eyes of some by relating their views to Zappa. For example, a friend of mine mentioned a recent Joe Bageant article that makes some good points. Bageant articles are on SOTT but he also quotes someone comparing him to Zappa on his website. Here's the article in case it's OK for SOTT:
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/12/america-y-ur-peeps-b-so-dum.html
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/12/america-y-ur-peeps-b-so-dum.html
Hespen said:
Yep, it's important to remember that pathologicals often make some of the 'best' social critics! That's how they gain support among normal people, because the normies think they're talking about the same thing. A fine distinction, often hard to see, but there regardless.
HiThere
The Living Force
Hespen said:
I have seen no evidence that proves that sexual deviants molested Zappas children, and am reluctant to make rash conclusions without facts to go on. Your last sentence in the above seems manipulative, assuming for a fact something that is not known.
I do not know the character of Zappas soul, and can't say anything about this. You seem really certain of your facts.
'nuff said.
Approaching Infinity said:
Indeed, they hate society in general. And I've seen this in myself when I worry that I have nothing to contribute. Then society just looks ugly and mean. And maybe that's another reason for the economic destruction; to force people into this pathological hatred of what's "out there". It seems that people without the ability to contribute end up hurting themselves or other people. That reminds me of this session with the C's:
2009 January 5 said:
So the economic turmoil may have different effects, depending on what people create "within". I really took your response in another direction, sorry!
Nević Nenad
The Living Force
Approaching Infinity said:
Such a deeep meaning
Nević Nenad
The Living Force
Hespen said:
I wouldn't say that, I would rather said that they ARE the society.
Arbitrium Liberum said:
I don't think it's that simple. Pathologicals lack a social nature. So the concept of society is foreign to them. They then try to force their inner worldview onto the world, corrupting what SHOULD be society. We're left with a caricature. Not quite society, and not quite not.
durabone
Jedi Council Member
Thanks for the thoughts all.
One of the stranger Zappa stories is that I heard him being interviewed on National Public Radio. His popularity in the Czech Republic was so strong that the US State Department apparently recruited him as a Foreign Service Officer / Emissary. (I don't think he made ambassador). His voice sounded like such a sober politician that I had to triple check that it was him.
He related a tale of telling McDonald's "No." You cannot tear down the building, you must make your hamburgers inside of an existing building. So when I went to Prague, I broke my long-standing boycott on Mickey D's, and just had to have some Zappa-fries at this very McDonald's. My quest for zappa albumns, etc. was much less successful. It seemed that either his rep is so divine/sublime that is off-limits for Americans or I don't know what. I found like zero albumns of his, so I just joined in on the Charles Bridge and sang "Let it Be" with the locals and Hare Krishnas. I think it was 1994.
One of the stranger Zappa stories is that I heard him being interviewed on National Public Radio. His popularity in the Czech Republic was so strong that the US State Department apparently recruited him as a Foreign Service Officer / Emissary. (I don't think he made ambassador). His voice sounded like such a sober politician that I had to triple check that it was him.
He related a tale of telling McDonald's "No." You cannot tear down the building, you must make your hamburgers inside of an existing building. So when I went to Prague, I broke my long-standing boycott on Mickey D's, and just had to have some Zappa-fries at this very McDonald's. My quest for zappa albumns, etc. was much less successful. It seemed that either his rep is so divine/sublime that is off-limits for Americans or I don't know what. I found like zero albumns of his, so I just joined in on the Charles Bridge and sang "Let it Be" with the locals and Hare Krishnas. I think it was 1994.