I've been deep in2 this website for a couple months now; I read The Wave & am on chap 15 of Adventures along w/ having read various articles... & I'm having a bit of stress. I know most ppl who visit the site probably assume they are STO candidates, but I'm wondering: am I a robot? Am I fooling myself? Do I have a soul? Has my past few years of study been in vain because I have no hope of spiritual growth? What about my children? I'm frozen here. Can any1 offer insight? PEACE
Do I Have A Soul?
- Thread starter Ominous
- Start date
what makes you think that they assume that they are STO canidates?Ominous said:
this what you are going trough is normal, the predator mind wants you to stop this, it tells you that this work is useless and pointless.
It's better to think that one has no soul at all and start doing something on getting one, wasting your energy on stressing if you have a soul or not will bring you nowhere(I have been trough the same process), it's better to assume that every individual has no soul at all and has to work for one, fight for it, heck not even I know if I have a soul or not, but I simply start to at least work for one, start to know your programs, try to get rid of all the bugs.
something that will help you is this http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/search.php?search_id=479812141 lots of threads about Organic Portals and souled beings.
I mean, if these programs are so insidiously ingrained in2 our beings, how can one REALLY know if one is striving for their Will or just going w/ the program? One must always have hope, or else despair sets in. & it looks like the "robots" or ones w/ no soul unit have NO hope at all. Is this a correct assessment? The bloodlines are intermingled, which means that MY children or YOURS could be soulless? A very disturbing, distressing thought, to say the least.
I apologize if I offended w/ my grandiose generalization. When I first came here, I assumed that any1 who'd spend the time reading all the site's material MUST be a candidate because that's a lot of time/energy to invest (unless they have a nefarious agenda)! But now I think different. This doubt almost suffocated me when it hit, esp. when I thought of my kids. But, it's not near reason enuff to give up. Thans for your replies. PEACE
Russ
Jedi Master
I think we are always under attack, but when we become to smart for one kind of attack, it changes to a different method.Anita said:
Also are you saying that someone without a soul wouldn't be seeking to learn? If so, I don't agree, I think both souled and non-souled can seek to learn.
Ominous, maybe you could benefit from a different description of "soul". I think you can tell, to a certain extent, how "souled" you are. The way I see it is like a determination, dedication, or a will. A souled being will be more true to itself. Like, an extreme example would be something like, someone has you tied up and says, if you want to live you must kill someone, a souled person would never accept that and would die instead, but a non-souled person would be more likely to "break" and go ahead and kill the person. So you could say a soul comes from repeated "tests" to your integrity, and the more you "pass", the stronger you become. This, I think ties in with attacks, attacks don't stop but you can learn to handle them, and on it goes. Mostly I think it is related to who and what you choose to be, and how well you do it - but there is a lot more to it of course, there are side effects such as increased empathy for other beings.
Hey there. You might not be at all satisfied with any of the answers to your question about having a soul. But BELIEVE ME, you ARE having normal feelings and theres no need to apologise for anything. I thought exactly the same things. One of my questions to myself has always been "Am I really wanting to do this work because I want to, or is it because these explanations of our reality sound very convincing and leave me no real choice, like choosing between drinking water or oil?". Well, objective observation, I'm sure, will give me an answer to that question.
I don't know what constitutes or are the qualifications for being an STO candidate and I don't know if I, or my closest ones, have a soul. But Adam's comment about starting with the assumption that we do not have a soul is the most helpful for this instance. Next, for me, In Search of the Miraculous give's one an idea that these questions may be answered through self observation. Maybe there are better books, for instance, I haven't read Mouravieff yet, but there really is no way of knowing right now.
Also the comments about the predators mind and these thoughts your having are things that want you to tune your essence to their wave length. They may be future you's that all want you to become them, and they'll try anything to stop you "working". So keep reading The Wave and keep in contact with others interested in the same subject matter. They can help you greatly.
I don't know what constitutes or are the qualifications for being an STO candidate and I don't know if I, or my closest ones, have a soul. But Adam's comment about starting with the assumption that we do not have a soul is the most helpful for this instance. Next, for me, In Search of the Miraculous give's one an idea that these questions may be answered through self observation. Maybe there are better books, for instance, I haven't read Mouravieff yet, but there really is no way of knowing right now.
Also the comments about the predators mind and these thoughts your having are things that want you to tune your essence to their wave length. They may be future you's that all want you to become them, and they'll try anything to stop you "working". So keep reading The Wave and keep in contact with others interested in the same subject matter. They can help you greatly.
Thomas Alan
The Living Force
Interesting question. Can I know up front if I have a soul or can develop one? If I knew for certain that I didn't or couldn't studying the work would seem like a waste of energy. I might as well buy a case of beer, click on NFL Sunday and flop in my easy chair.
But something was stirred when I read Secret History, Mourvieff and ISOTM. Something wants to wake up, to be real, to take it's rightful place.
Maybe this passion to awake is itself an illusion. Then I want to wake up from that illusion as well.
Thomas Alan
But something was stirred when I read Secret History, Mourvieff and ISOTM. Something wants to wake up, to be real, to take it's rightful place.
Maybe this passion to awake is itself an illusion. Then I want to wake up from that illusion as well.
Maybe we can't know for sure at the stage. We make a effort to wake. The general law tries to pull us back to our "proper" place. "I am an exception." "No, your not, now go back to sleep."Ominus said:
Thomas Alan
Third_Density_Resident
Jedi Council Member
This whole "Do I have a soul?" question has also tormented me quite a lot in the past, and even more recently a part inside me still asks that question quite regularly. What people have already said on this thread is helpful. However I'd like to add another thing that might be helpful -- a clarification of what "soul" can actually mean.
The word "soul" can mean either that individuated, immutable, "true" part of a person which is uncorrupted by programs etc.; or it can also mean the essence that all living things possess, which is often referred to as the "group soul". It is hypothesised that plants, animals -- and even inanimate matter -- possess this "group soul". Using the latter definition, therefore, pretty much everything will live for eternity -- at least in once sense -- because souls, whether they be of animal, vegetable, or mineral, are immutable.
It is also hypothesised, and the C's have said this, that the "soul" of someone who doesn't have the "true" soul as meant by Gurdjieff etc., still migrates to Fifth Density upon physical death. Following this is a supposed "second death". It is my hypothesis that this second death is a reunion with the "light" -- that presence/vibration/eternal "something" that so many people have reported during "near-death experiences". It is interesting that some of these people were "told" that once they merge with this light, they will never be able to return to Earth as their "present self" ever again; whereas many others do not have this experience. If you take "present self" to mean the "bit of group soul you incarnated with the first time", then it would make sense that this former group are the "soulless" ones, because another totally new combination of soul essence will incarnate the second time around; whereas the latter group (those people not told about merging with the light) may likely possess true, individuated souls, as defined by Gurdjieff. Some have argued that this second death, that is, never incarnating with the same "combination" of soul essence ever again, is as good as having no true soul anyway -- but I disagree. A level of awareness in that group soul should theoretically continue to permeate throughout all of its divisions. Of course this is all my theorising, but some of it does seem to be consistent with the data of near-death experience literature, and that pertaining to "the second death".
And then there is the argument that people with group souls (i.e. no true individual soul) will never be able to Work such that they "acquire" an individual one. I still don't accept this theory, because it raises the question of Well where did the souls of the souled people come or "evolve" from? No one has yet given what I deem to be an adequate answer to this. And reinforcing my doubts to the original argument is the commonly accepted idea that organic portals exist to house the group souls of those formerly second-density beings -- which would imply a degree of evolution from 2nd to 3rd density -- which would in turn imply that soul evolution is also possible from 3rd Density group soul to 3rd Density individual soul.
The word "soul" can mean either that individuated, immutable, "true" part of a person which is uncorrupted by programs etc.; or it can also mean the essence that all living things possess, which is often referred to as the "group soul". It is hypothesised that plants, animals -- and even inanimate matter -- possess this "group soul". Using the latter definition, therefore, pretty much everything will live for eternity -- at least in once sense -- because souls, whether they be of animal, vegetable, or mineral, are immutable.
It is also hypothesised, and the C's have said this, that the "soul" of someone who doesn't have the "true" soul as meant by Gurdjieff etc., still migrates to Fifth Density upon physical death. Following this is a supposed "second death". It is my hypothesis that this second death is a reunion with the "light" -- that presence/vibration/eternal "something" that so many people have reported during "near-death experiences". It is interesting that some of these people were "told" that once they merge with this light, they will never be able to return to Earth as their "present self" ever again; whereas many others do not have this experience. If you take "present self" to mean the "bit of group soul you incarnated with the first time", then it would make sense that this former group are the "soulless" ones, because another totally new combination of soul essence will incarnate the second time around; whereas the latter group (those people not told about merging with the light) may likely possess true, individuated souls, as defined by Gurdjieff. Some have argued that this second death, that is, never incarnating with the same "combination" of soul essence ever again, is as good as having no true soul anyway -- but I disagree. A level of awareness in that group soul should theoretically continue to permeate throughout all of its divisions. Of course this is all my theorising, but some of it does seem to be consistent with the data of near-death experience literature, and that pertaining to "the second death".
And then there is the argument that people with group souls (i.e. no true individual soul) will never be able to Work such that they "acquire" an individual one. I still don't accept this theory, because it raises the question of Well where did the souls of the souled people come or "evolve" from? No one has yet given what I deem to be an adequate answer to this. And reinforcing my doubts to the original argument is the commonly accepted idea that organic portals exist to house the group souls of those formerly second-density beings -- which would imply a degree of evolution from 2nd to 3rd density -- which would in turn imply that soul evolution is also possible from 3rd Density group soul to 3rd Density individual soul.
Zadius Sky
The Living Force
I don't think people come to the sites in assumption of being STO candidates. Otherwise, it would be a wishful thinking on their part so they would not have to learn anything ("Oh, good, I'm STO candidate, so I don't have to worry about becoming STS" then they watch TV). Most people come to the sites tend to be disinfo agents or with an agenda (and there is alot of them on the web). When I came upon 'The Wave' and other related sites, I didn't assume that I was STO candidate and still don't. I am considered to be a seeker, in search of the knowledge and self-knowledge. This kind of passion for knowledge is considered to be 'soul quest' (as C's pointed out).Ominous said:
There is an article entitled "Am I an Organic Portal?" which might of some help.
http://www.quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_amianop.htm
That is the crux of our quest. When we believe that we are searching for knowledge, we meet with other like-minded people. By meeting with them, our certain programs might become activited and 'vector' these individuals from their aims. How can one really know if one is just going with the programs? That is really a good question. I think we should keep that in mind when 'reading' our programs.Ominous said:
I don't think this kind of questioning put forth by Ominous is an 'attack.' To me, it's soul questing. But, like Russ said, we are all under attack in some form or another if we pursue soul quest. And, like he also said, both OP and souled being do have ability to learn. The problem is with OP, they are easily manipulated and they have tendency to believe in the lies. The way I see it (and I think Ark and Laura pointed it out) is we are all OPs until we learn to grow our souls. If we believe that we are OPs and if we want to become souled beings and if that is what we aim for, we would develop a strong need to 'break' free and grow. That is what learning is all about. To grow. osit.Anita said:
I just finished reading Laura's "High Strangeness" book, and there is couple of chapters where the discussion of Grays was addressed. The one thing that stood out is what's called "soul imprint." Even Grays will develop their own souls because of their projections or interaction with the Lizard beings. And, C's said that it is rare but it can happen. I was surprised about that. Even the Grays became STO beings (that's rare). So, I come to thinking with the OPs. Since the OPs came from the same soul pool, they will develop their own souls over time through their learning development. I think the key words here are "Soul imprint" and "Soul evolution."Third_Density_Resident said:
Hope this helps. fwiw.
