Ego and Egotism (Egocentrism)

[Denis]

I didn't know where to place this topic, so I've decided to post here.

Ego is a word that has many different meanings and these meanings are extrapolated from the context in which the word is used. In & of itself, it is neither good nor bad but neutral (to my understanding, it is the case with all words) until we come and attach a certain meaning to it, again depending on the context/type of situation in which the word is used.
In mystical/esoteric writings it is often said that ego (to clarify more, ego is a word most commonly used in our WESTERN culture, in ancient scriptures of Veda what we refer to as ego is called Ahaṃkāra there) will be lost/dissolved in parallel with the awakening of higher consciousness. But the word ego is often misunderstood and misinterpreted. Ego is a concept that has fairly wide range in its normal use.
In modern psychology the word ego is used primarily to describe aspects of the mind which is responsible for the coordination of mental functioning: thinking, analysing, the evaluating aspect of the mind. Ego is a computer that measures, weighs, sorts and calculates. When psychologists talk about someone who has a well-developed ego, they think of a person who has developed special skills and who is successfully coping with his/her environment. It does not imply that such skills should go along with the egotistic type of personality.
There is another, completely different concept of ego. In our everyday language, ego means an extreme amount of self-interest to the exclusion and detriment of other beings (human, animal and plant). When we use phrases such as “egotistic”, we mean people who have a strong ego with a negative connotation.

When we hear that in a higher state of consciousness ego dissolves, it refers only to the word “ego” which is used to denote a narrow self-interest, unenlightened self importance and loss of concern for other people and other living beings in our environment- this is important to point out cos many Western psychologists misunderstand Eastern interpretation of transcendental consciousness, interpreting it as something that involves a loss of ego, as if the overall sense of individuality and uniqueness must be left behind in some kind of complete fusion, which involves a complete loss of the “Self”. Most people are afraid of losing their identity in such a strange way. But in reality this does not happen, because the revolution of consciousness is not destruction, but the expansion of identity. Such expansion does not happen by the way of increasing, but rather through gradual self-determination. In doing so, we should not fear that our identity is forever lost to us. It has merely expanded itself and gained a broader perspective and more understanding. In short, the more we expand our identities the more empathetic we become and we can more easily recognize and consequently abandon the futility and stupidity of worshiping an illusion.
In no way does the loss of ego (in the context of narrow self-interest and self importance) reduce the coordinating and cognitive abilities of the ego. Extended identity contains all the essential capacities of thought, consideration, logical analysis, filtering capabilities of our sensory impressions, forward planning and use of past experience/s- in short, it includes all the positive qualities of self that develop into normal adults, allowing us to effectively deal with our environment.

Boys and Girls, Ladies and Gentlemen, please share your own unique perspectives and understandings on this- from my perspective- important and essential ingredient in terms of personal growth and development.

Over & out for now. ;)

 

[Denis]

Here are some interesting thoughts on the subject of Ego left by the poster who goes by the nickname ARARITA on Hanged Man Project forum. I will paste the post here for you to read and discuss if you choose so.

The Freudian concept of Ego is a necessary and vital part of our human existence. It is what generates our mode of consciousness. Without the Ego, we would have no means by which to separate our experiences into their separate component parts, and thus we would not be able to experience the full potential of reality, or of ourselves and each other. The Ego, the Consciousness of our physical forms as human beings, is what enables us to learn. The problem lies not in Egoism, that is being in possession of an Ego, but in Egotism, letting the Ego have control. We are, after all, more than just our consciousness. Now, my understanding of the makeup of the Human Being is very subjective, so I am not going to put this out there from any standpoint of authority, but for anyone who would like to listen, perhaps this will help in your own understanding.

Going from the ground up, in a very real sense, let’s start with the physical body. This is the lowest energetic form the human being takes. It is the vessel that moves through the physical world, the part of us that experiences. Our five physical senses have their roots here.
Next, we have what I call the Lower Self, what is sometimes equated with the Freudian concept of Id. This is the basis, the foundation for the physical body. Since the body of the human being belongs to the Animal Kingdom, it is here that we find our animal instincts, the basic drives of our physical existence: the urge to breed and the fight/flight complex that is triggered into action by the emotion of fear. The Lower self is fundamental to our physical existence, as its purpose it mostly to keep us alive and drive us to procreate, however it is governed by a higher part of ourselves (or should be).

Above this, we have our Consciousness, the seat of learning. This is the part of us that gives meaning to the experiences of our physical body. It is what allows us to use our five senses in a subjective manner, and turn the information we gather into meaningful knowledge. This is also where the Ego resides, the part of ourselves we use to create subjectivity, where we separate “I” from everything else, a necessary function of the learning experience.

Above this is what Freud called the Super-Ego, what I like to refer to as the Higher or True Self. In religion this has been linked with the will of God, by whatever name. In more modern forms of mysticism, it is regarded as the vital core of the human being, our link with the greater universal consciousness, or with God, if you wish. It is this part of ourselves that turns the knowledge we gather into life lessons. It is the most basic, fundamental part of what makes a human being. Most importantly for our physical existence, it is also the seat of the emotion we experience as love, which we use to create connections between our experiences.

Between the Consciousness and the True Self is a connection that some are aware of, and some are not. Regardless, it exists in all. That connection is the conscious awareness of our true nature, the awareness that we are more than just our ego selves, or our physical bodies, or even a combination of the two. The link between our Conscious self and our Higher self is the acknowledgement of that Higher self. Some people have a very strong connection here, which, believe it or not, is built through a conscious effort of Ego will. Without our Higher self, we would not exist, but without the Ego, we would not know of our higher nature.

The Lower self can represent the basest potential for human existence. Those who allow that part of themselves to rule turn into murderers, rapists, and the like. The Higher self can represent the highest potential of human existence. Those who allow that part of themselves to rule become Zen masters, Yogis, and the like. Many such people have little connection with, or use for physical existence. The Conscious self, the Ego, which lies between these two extremes, has the potential to move in either direction. It is more difficult to move upwards, because there has to be a strong conscious will to do so, to make that connection with the Higher self, but those who manage to do so often become great benefactors of humanity. It is easy to move downwards, because there is no such gap between the Conscious self and the Lower self. The boundary between the two is like the boundary between water and air. A boundary, to be sure, but one that is quite easily breached. Those who go in this direction will range from apathetic souls with no will outside those that govern them, to the tyrants who have a wish to govern such souls, and all stages in between.

This is not meant to be construed as an attack on the Lower Self. Our fears, our instincts, these are necessary things to our existence. The problem lies in letting the Ego rule, because it will naturally take the path of least resistance, merging with the Lower Self. Thus, eventually the Lower Self comes to be in control of the Ego, rather than the other way around. This is readily apparent in society at large today, as people en masse have moved away from the idea that there is anything higher than the Ego, anything greater than the mode of consciousness that governs their physical lives. Perhaps this is due to people seeing through the corruption of spiritual concepts, and their being hijacked by tyrants under the guise of religion, as a means of control.

 

[Denis]

I hope you won't mind if I paste here some thoughts left by Ben Stewart (film maker for internationally acclaimed film Kymatica, and also Esoteric Agenda) on HMP forum that are closely related to the topic at hand. If I am somehow violating the forum rules by doing this, please say so.

All of the resistance we encounter while venturing towards self discovery is a rebellion of the ego. This rebellion is quite ingenious actually. While we begin to practice meditation, mindful observation, or any discipline in a manner of self discovery, we are faced with an opposing force. Everything we have ever applied value to begins to rebel against the awakening of consciousness.

When we read the story of David and Goliath, we are in fact reading of a battle between our unconditioned consciousness based in reality and our conditioned consciousness based in illusion. There is a fundamental rule of nature that when we apply a value to anything in our perceivable environment, we simultaneously create its opposite.

If we choose to desire or become attached to a specific person, situation, or sensation, then we immediately create a fear of the lack or loss of those things. It is precisely the fear we create and repress within our subconscious framework that projects itself into the world. There is only one true reality, and that is our experience. If we are experiencing fear, depression, anxiety, worthlessness, or hopelessness, it is because we have chosen to believe that we need and deserve the opposite.

We believe we need pride, therefore we create depression. We believe we need acceptance from others, there for we create worthlessness. We believe we need hope, therefore we inevitably create hopelessness. So when we begin to dissolve these false beliefs by experiencing true, unconditioned reality, our egos begin to feel threatened. Our egos were created by a perverted form of intelligence, but it is intelligence just the same. When our egos feel threatened, they begin to rebel. In order to rebel, they employ every trick and temptation that led us to create those ego in the first place.

You will notice that everything imaginable begins to cause pain and suffering. Unfortunately, even though it is the ego that is suffering, we have the false belief that we are the ego. Therefore, we experience the suffering because we have intimately linked our consciousness with falsity and lies. To dissolve the ego is a form of soul surgery.

This suffering is necessary. There is no other way to liberate yourself from suffering but to destroy the mechanisms that enslave the consciousness. Yet even though we inherently know this truth, the ego will seem to externalize itself as people, circumstances, and events in our lives tempting us to return to our old habits and vices. We will begin to conjure up justifications and alternative theories.

Our ego will act like our best friend. It will promise us all of the pleasures in the world. It will tell us how horrible, tragic, lonely and pointless a life of freedom truly is. Just as a child will beg and plead for something he or she wants, then put on a fake smile to persuade you, then lash out to threaten you, then curse you in the hopes of evoking guilt within you in order to attain his or her desire, our ego is that very same child.

Lucifer. The most heralded of all the angels. Entrusted with the most controversial duty. The duty of tempting the individual with rewards of ego. A truly liberated and free individual understands the futility of the ego. A sovereign mind comprehends the idiocy of worshipping illusion. Lucifer stands at the threshold between freedom and slavery. We are standing in limbo between both, every time we encounter a Luciferic force.

Many people have the instinct to act only upon behaviors that provide comfort and pleasure. Stepping out of the comfort zone for anyone proves to be painful or stressful. Because people's desire to be comfortable supersedes their desire for self knowledge and well being, they avoid any form of discomfort. This is the impulse that drives us to repress undesired emotions, thoughts, and past trauma.

I will state the unfortunate truth one more time. The suffering that results from facing the darker portions of ourselves is necessary. To overcome the fear of riding a bike, a child must face and conquer the mechanism that causes the fear. The only method for this is to embrace and accept the fear as our own. You cannot avoid the discomfort because it is precisely the discomfort that you are meant to embrace.

R. D. Laing stated:

"There is a great deal of pain in life and perhaps the only pain that can be avoided is the pain that comes from trying to avoid pain."

This is exactly what we are seeing as the taproot of all suffering on the planet. Our childish instinct to avoid all pain and only experience pleasure is what causes pain. As much as this might make sense intellectually, it is truly difficult to accept with the heart. To bring yourself to a complete comprehension that we must do the exact opposite of everything we've been conditioned to do requires a revolution of the consciousness.

I hope it is fully understood now that the structure of polity, economy, and society cannot be transformed for the better without every individual revolutionizing themselves on a conscious level. If there are existing rebellions, movements, causes, and organizations who consider themselves to be revolutionaries without placing the vast majority of the focus on personal development, then the only action they're performing is putting a pretty new mask over the same ugly face.

There is no better example of this than in politics. The political system is set up as an exact replica of how our ego works within us. The large majority of the public cares very little for politics because they are comfortable with others handling political decisions. This represents our sleeping consciousness.

A smaller portion of the public actually cares about politics, therefore they become involved and expend large amounts of psychic energy on a game that cannot be won. They will follow the rules, get informed, vote, petition, rally and rebel, but all within the framework that the political system allows them to. This is a reflection of how we attempt to manipulate our life by manipulating the ego. The ego cannot be manipulated. It simply manipulates us. It is a brilliant mechanism. We must comprehend that the ego understands us far more than we understand it. The only way to conquer the ego is to learn how we feed it, then starve it to death. The same goes for political corruption.

An even smaller portion of the public believes that politics is fixed and rigged and cannot be won. This is true, however, this portion of the public attempts to incite fear and anger among the public in order to revolutionize the face of politics, leaving the core untouched. The intent is to call for action in the direction of any type of change. It is rarely noticed, however, that the change only comes in the form of increased confusion about what the original struggle was. Such is the curse of the false revolutionaries. This represents our desire to take control of our lives by taking any alternative action. Within our psyche, when we begin to realize the futility of playing the game of the ego, we rebel. However, without consciousness, we end up rebelling in yet another futile game of the ego.

Without the consciousness involved in our struggle, we lose sight of the fact that we are the chess player, and not the chess pieces. The chess pieces represent all of the portions of our identity. The white pieces are the portions of our identity we accept and like to flaunt around to the public, so we typically play the white side. However, the black pieces are the darker portions of our heart and mind. The corners of our subconscious that no light reaches. All of it is us, yet only the white pieces feed the ego, so we are in an eternal battle with the opposing side. Anything that threatens the integrity of our ego is our enemy.

Due to this reality, we have manufactured enemies in every facet of our lives. This isn't out of boredom, but a deep fear of the possibility that one day, we might have to face the reflection of our true face. This seems like a grim diagnosis, but if we remain conscious of the fact that we are not being forced to hold onto these pieces of the game. We have a choice to keep gripping tightly the numerous aspect of our false identity, or to let the pieces of your gloriously faulty empire crumble. The most beautiful pain you will ever experience is the agony of a lifetime of beliefs, dogmas, values, and rituals being burnt to the ground in a while you do nothing more than allow fire to do what it does best. Destroy, renew, and regenerate.

All we must do is let go. This is painful, but we must let go. The intellectuals may call it irrational and unproductive, but we must let go. The highly emotional may find it too uncomfortable to part with desire, but we must let go. The conspiracy theorist might call this disinformation in order to let the elite enslave us, but even they must let go. Everyone has something within them that they refuse to let go of, and that is usually the one thing they must learn to let go of. The reason why the sages and philosophers of antiquity say the greatest lessons are hidden mysteries guarded by the most gruesome warrior is because we have placed that warrior there to protect the tender pieces of our soul that are broken. We've chosen to protect these broken pieces so violently that we've never even given them the chance to heal. We must let go.

Enemies attack enemies. Ego rivals Ego. Fear battles fear. These are all symptoms attacking symptoms. No true change can ever come from them. The only true rebellion comes from a surrender to the most frighteningly obvious choice we've ever had. As Erich Fromm beautifully stated:

"Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence."

I hope we have the ears to hear this.

_http://soulfulliving.com/ego-rebellion.htm

 

[Denis]

And more interesting thoughts on this subject left by a poster named ARARITA:

The ego is merely a part of ourselves, the conscious part, the part that thinks and learns. It does this by separating our perceptions of reality into component parts, allowing our minds to relate one thing to another. This separation process is perfectly natural, and indeed essential to the human experience. Yes, the reality that we perceive through our ego is an illusion relative the the sum whole of existence. This is by design. I can give a metaphor of sorts for this, to show the purpose of why our ego perceives reality in this separated, compartmentalized way.
The ancient Hebrews (not Jews, this predates what is known as Judaism today, and is not “religious” in this context) had an idea of the creation story that goes approximately as follows:
Before anything existed as it does now, “In the beginning” as the classic phrase goes, everything was singular. That is, all of existence was of one single, united whole, with no separation of concepts. Put another way, everything was in a pure, combined energetic/material state, with infinite potential, but no motion, no action. “Creation” (I call it that because it is an easy concept for everyone to understand, but note that it is only a word, a symbol, with many meanings) occurred through a concentration of that energetic state. Here, concentration is used with two meanings: concentration as in, concentrating a gas into a liquid and; concentration as in, focusing the mind on a task, because the universe, and reality, is a form of consciousness, again with that word having many meanings. This concentration produced separation in the energetic state, in many forms, eventually leading to a perception of reality where everything was separated into its component parts, i.e. the physical universe we experience. Our part in that world, as human beings, is to experience creation as conscious extensions of that original, unified energetic state. In essence, we are the universe experiencing itself subjectively. (This is all paraphrased and highly condensed, but the preceding explanation will suffice for what I have to say.)


The metaphor is this: in order for the universe to experience itself, it needed to be viewed as separate parts making up a whole. Thus, in order for us to experience things, we need to be able to perceive things as separated. That is the function of the ego. That perception of separation is what forms what we most often refer to as “consciousness,” i.e. our experience of ourselves and our reality when awake and consciously thinking.


Therefore again, the ego is an essential part of what it is to be human. It is neither good nor bad. It is simply a function, a part of the whole. The problem lies not in the ego, but in egotism. That is, the belief that the ego is the whole of what we are, that we are nothing more than our ego selves. This is the root cause of several issues within ourselves, within the Self as a whole. One part of a possible solution to these issues would be to realize that the ego is a part of the whole, that there is more to our Self than just the ego. It seems counterproductive to think that “dissolving” or getting rid of that part of ourselves would be a solution to anything. In fact, it would seem to be akin to the ever-present issue of repression that is occurring within our societies and ourselves.

If you are interested to read more, here's the link to the thread: _http://www.hangedmanproject.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/292/

 

[thevenusian]

Denis,
If you could summarize the main point you are trying to convey in this thread in one or two sentences, what would it be?

 

[Denis]

Denis,
If you could summarize the main point you are trying to convey in this thread in one or two sentences, what would it be?

Pointing out the difference between Egoism (being in possession of an Ego) and Egotism/Egocentrism (letting the Ego have control). The problem imho lies in Egotism.
What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Palinurus]

Hi Denis,

My thoughts are rather mixed at the moment.

It seems you are comfortable in hiding behind the texts of others without stating in your own words why this topic is of any concern to you in personal terms. Yet, as it is the first thread you have opened after introducing yourself and as a direct consequence from that (as I learned after having taken a look over there), I surmise there must be a certain inner compulsion on your part to be concerned with specifically this subject. But I'm unable to distill that from what you have posted so far. That could just be me...

A topic like this can be discussed till the birds fall from their branches and never reach any specific conclusion. As you will notice soon enough this forum doesn't work that way. So I would prefere to invite you to explain to us your specifics regarding this subject just like venusian already asked - otherwise we don't have anything to go on in trying to help you out with any issue in this regard if there are any. Intellectual exercises in abstracto usually don't bring much tangible result to base actions on.

As for 'ego' as such - your borrowed distinctions do not hold water as far as I can see. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it at the same time. Your approach could very easily degenerate into semantic nitpicking and futile discussions about words.

Doing the Work isn't the same as simply expanding the ego to its full capacity, as far as I know. Rather it needs realising that 'ego' is at the heart of the false personality and has to be transformed thoroughly in order to make room for the real 'I' or real personality which is in touch with the higher self and with the objective truth about your own position relative to life, the universe and everything and about that reality itself. It would be rather confusing in stead of clarifying to use 'ego' for both the false personality and for the real 'I' as well, don't you agree?

 

[thevenusian]

I asked because the the way the term 'ego' is used in much current literature is confusing and not very helpful in coming to a more precise understanding of how we are constructed. The value of having an accurate model is in knowing how to work with it in order to become more conscious.

What you are pointing out could be roughly translated in Gurdjieff's terms as the difference between Personality and various forms of identification with aspects of Personality. One significant aspect of Gurdjieff's teaching along these lines is that these identifications take place automatically- mechanically. It isn't a matter of choosing to be 'egotistical'. We can't help it and can only change that with a great deal of effort.

You might really enjoy reading Ouspensky's 'In Search of the Miraculous' if you haven't already.

 

[RyanX]

I didn't know where to place this topic, so I've decided to post here.

Ego is a word that has many different meanings and these meanings are extrapolated from the context in which the word is used. In & of itself, it is neither good nor bad but neutral (to my understanding, it is the case with all words) until we come and attach a certain meaning to it, again depending on the context/type of situation in which the word is used.

Quite true. Each person will often add their own interpretation or flavor to a particular word. This is a BIG problem in general and not just for the term "ego".

In mystical/esoteric writings it is often said that ego (to clarify more, ego is a word most commonly used in our WESTERN culture, in ancient scriptures of Veda what we refer to as ego is called Ahaṃkāra there) will be lost/dissolved in parallel with the awakening of higher consciousness. But the word ego is often misunderstood and misinterpreted. Ego is a concept that has fairly wide range in its normal use.
In modern psychology the word ego is used primarily to describe aspects of the mind which is responsible for the coordination of mental functioning: thinking, analysing, the evaluating aspect of the mind. Ego is a computer that measures, weighs, sorts and calculates. When psychologists talk about someone who has a well-developed ego, they think of a person who has developed special skills and who is successfully coping with his/her environment. It does not imply that such skills should go along with the egotistic type of personality.
There is another, completely different concept of ego. In our everyday language, ego means an extreme amount of self-interest to the exclusion and detriment of other beings (human, animal and plant). When we use phrases such as “egotistic”, we mean people who have a strong ego with a negative connotation.

All the more reason to establish some sort of objective language. Without this conversations will devolve into random subjectivity and noise. Are you familiar with the teachings of G.I. Gurdjieff described in P.D. Ouspensky's book In Search of the Miraculous?

Note: I see venusian just mentioned this book as well. I think reading this would definitely help clear up some of the confusion here.

When we hear that in a higher state of consciousness ego dissolves, it refers only to the word “ego” which is used to denote a narrow self-interest, unenlightened self importance and loss of concern for other people and other living beings in our environment- this is important to point out cos many Western psychologists misunderstand Eastern interpretation of transcendental consciousness, interpreting it as something that involves a loss of ego, as if the overall sense of individuality and uniqueness must be left behind in some kind of complete fusion, which involves a complete loss of the “Self”. Most people are afraid of losing their identity in such a strange way. But in reality this does not happen, because the revolution of consciousness is not destruction, but the expansion of identity. Such expansion does not happen by the way of increasing, but rather through gradual self-determination. In doing so, we should not fear that our identity is forever lost to us. It has merely expanded itself and gained a broader perspective and more understanding. In short, the more we expand our identities the more empathetic we become and we can more easily recognize and consequently abandon the futility and stupidity of worshiping an illusion.
In no way does the loss of ego (in the context of narrow self-interest and self importance) reduce the coordinating and cognitive abilities of the ego. Extended identity contains all the essential capacities of thought, consideration, logical analysis, filtering capabilities of our sensory impressions, forward planning and use of past experience/s- in short, it includes all the positive qualities of self that develop into normal adults, allowing us to effectively deal with our environment.

I think I get what you're saying. I'm not sure if expanding one's identity really leads to the positive things you've described. Just by virtue of expanding one's identify one does not become more conscious of oneself or one's environment. It could just mean adding a new program or personality fragment without the means to control it. I think becoming aware of one's programs and bringing them under conscious control leads in the direction of a higher state of consciousness.

Ultimately there should be some master, some higher-self, or some voice of one's soul that should orchestrate the various programs and fragments of one's personality. Without this directing force, people simply act mechanical and tend to confuse the real nature of these "transcendental" experiences. For the large majority of people, acting mechanically is a way of life and few realize the possibilities outside of this. To gain conscious control over one's machine takes a lot of work of a definite kind. Again, all of this is described much better in the book In Search of the Miraculous mentioned above.

 

[Denis]

It seems you are comfortable in hiding behind the texts of others without stating in your own words why this topic is of any concern to you in personal terms. Yet, as it is the first thread you have opened after introducing yourself and as a direct consequence from that (as I learned after having taken a look over there), I surmise there must be a certain inner compulsion on your part to be concerned with specifically this subject. But I'm unable to distill that from what you have posted so far. That could just be me...

Ok, I will explain... (deep breath) But before you give me your reply, I would like to know did you take the time to actually read everything I have posted (and pasted) so far in this thread? If not, I kindly ask of you to carefully and patiently go through everything I have shared here. I did it because I find both Ben's and ARARITA's posts valuable in terms of personal growth and development. Their explanations, perspectives and understandings on the topic of Ego (especially the ones coming from ARARITA) resonate with my current understanding- it's just that I couldn't find the appropriate words to describe this.
I answered in ARARITA's words because I resonate with his understanding of the terms Ego and Egotism. This does not in any way mean that both my perspective/s and understanding/s won't expand in the future- that's why I brought the subject here to hear from you guys/girls what do you think and what are your perspectives, realizations and understandings on this subject.
I'm not sure what do you mean by stating in my own words why this topic is of any concern to me. If I find the words of another truthful and credible and if they resonate with my innate knowing, I might as well use them to explain my point, right? It's not as if they are copyrighted or something anyway... And besides, all of my thoughts are simply words that I picked up/learned from my environment, as is the case with everyone else. I don't identify with my thoughts, feelings and emotions (Ego consists of them), because I understand that I am more than just my Ego self.

I will be back here later to explain and further expand my point because I have to go out now.

In Lak'ech

 

[Mrs. Peel]

in ARARITA's words because I resonate with his understanding of the terms Ego and Egotism. This does not in any way mean that both my perspective/s and understanding/s won't expand in the future- that's why I brought the subject here to hear from you guys/girls what do you think and what are your perspectives, realizations and understandings on this subject.
I will be back here later to explain and further expand my point because I have to go out now.

In Lak'ech

Well, for one thing, you could do a search here based on those keywords, and read the responses to those threads...

 

[anart]

Denis, I think the problem you're running into is that you are not being concise. Time is limited for most people, so being concise is vitally important. Posting many paragraphs of rather obtuse information is not concise. If you understand the topic on which you are writing, being concise is very, very simple. If you do not, it is more difficult. With that said, using the search engine is a great suggestion.

 

[Palinurus]

Hi Denis,

But before you give me your reply, I would like to know did you take the time to actually read everything I have posted (and pasted) so far in this thread

I did. I went to your Newbie intro, followed the links you gave to gain some context around the quotes you selected and I visited your YouTube account to get even more context about where you are coming from. Alas, not to much avail I have to say...

I find both Ben's and ARARITA's posts valuable in terms of personal growth and development. Their explanations, perspectives and understandings on the topic of Ego (especially the ones coming from ARARITA) resonate with my current understanding

Okay, that's all fine and dandy. Nevertheless, you should be aware that we (the readers) are not acquainted with your current state of development and cannot infer such info from these quotes alone. It's not externally considerate of you to suppose otherwise, as far as I'm concerned. We are not mindreading here...
I just got a faint impression of an urgent need on your part concerning this topic - that's why I took the liberty of hinting in that direction and asking for your personal take on things. I thought you might just be shy or something. I could very well be totally wrong with that, though.

I brought the subject here to hear from you guys/girls what do you think and what are your perspectives, realizations and understandings on this subject.

It has already been stated but it bears repeating: you can use the search functions for that. After having done that, you could ask for specific clarifications on specific points that need elaboration or commenting upon. This subject as such is simply too vast -and too tricky as well- for general exchanges to be fruitful if they don't fit within a well defined context or problem.
I hope you can understand that.

 

[Buddy]

Denis,
If you could summarize the main point you are trying to convey in this thread in one or two sentences, what would it be?

Pointing out the difference between Egoism (being in possession of an Ego) and Egotism/Egocentrism (letting the Ego have control). The problem imho lies in Egotism.
What are your thoughts on this?

I read every word of every post and I'm just curious how this 'understanding' of the difference you mention has helped you in your own life? Without this information I think we lack the context to discuss the subject in terms of true/false/maybe/possibly/necessarily, etc, as Palinurus also alludes to.

Interesting that within all of that material there is just the single-sentence quote from R.D. Laing. As it happens, I am familiar with Laing's work and his "Politics of Experience". As such, I predict you would achieve a better social-contextual understanding of the topic from that ten dollar book than from Laing's work having been shaped into a lecture or sermon by those posters you quote.

My 2 cents.

 

[Denis]

Hey there I'm back (obviously :))!

Whooa, too many replies to this thread! Since I don't really have that much spare/free time on my hands to answer to everyone individually, I will try to be as concise as possible in this post.

Bud posed a question to me asking how has this 'understanding' of the difference I mention has helped me in my own life (interesting that you've put the word understanding under quotation marks- from this I could extrapolate that you assume that I am just saying this without actually knowing of what it is that I'm saying- and then again; I could be wrong).
Ok, how has it helped me? It helped me to stop demonizing the word Ego because in my past I mostly contributed this word to self interest, self indulgent behavior and self importance coupled with disregard for other beings around one. I realized that blaming the Ego for all of the world's ills is actually abdication of personal responsibility. I am the only one who is responsible for directing my thoughts, words and actions and I am the one who is directing them, making sure that I don't hurt myself and/or others in the process.
Without our Egos, we would not be able to communicate with one another, I/you/we wouldn't be able to think and learn if you didn't have one. So, making a clear distinction between Ego and Egotism (generally a behavior that is not life supportive or in your terms: STS orientation) is helpful in order to use proper terms when one discusses about these things.

@anart I do not consider the info I have posted to be rather obtuse, in fact I consider it to be very concise. But ok, you choose to label it as such- I don't consider this statement to be very wise- at least from my current perspective and understanding (please don't take this personally- I'm just pointing out to your choice of words). Can you please explain to me, if you will, why do you find this information rather obtuse? Perhaps I will understand why you've used those words if you clarify it for me. After all, you have more than 10000 posts here, this indicates to me that you have a broad knowledge base.

My state of development? I wouldn't know really... the more I learn the more I am amazed at how little I actually know. :)

I will listen to your advice and use the search engine and for the time being I will refrain from posting here.