Elon Musk and Space X

MichaelM

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Hi all,

I've recently just finished a 4-part (sort of biographical) series on Elon Musk and his projects and, imho, I would rank him up there with Putin. I'm not saying this lightly but he is doing a lot more than what can be garnered from the occasional tech related headline about him.
I searched the forum on Elon Musk but only found a smattering of references about his thoughts on AI and his SpaceX and Tesla projects.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html

I wanted to share this series with all of you since I think it is well thought out and composed. It does have some little things that are a bit off (carbon and global warming, assuming oil reserves are not abiotic) but for the most part it is spot on and well though out (yes I repeated myself).

It is a 4-part series and quite a chore to slog through for most. I myself spent the better part of 2 days going through the 4-part series and the 2-part mini-series. However I think it will put his various projects into perspective and show what kind of person he is and there are a lot of ideas in the series that I think might be helpful for anyone that could read it till the end.
 

Yupo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

There is a nonsense rumor out there that he isn't real. Anyone ever read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress ?
The big hero in that story wasn't real. Interesting idea, anyway.
I wonder sometimes what else in our world isn't real.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

I'm just digging into this now. (Thanks for the link!)

Elon Musk seems almost like an example of deus ex machina; a bug in the Matrix. He and his accomplishments don't seem quite real. It appears that he could single-handedly alter the course of human civilization, or at the very least, Western industry.

He seems different from some of the other major business success stories we have seen over the last couple of decades.

Google, for instance, seemed like an inevitability of sorts, a natural result of the internet, while Amazon and Apple, (two other notable giants) are just variations on snake-eating-its-own-tail ponorized "success". -Apple creates a mind numbing dream reality, underwriting its success through a variety of confidence scams based on the control of "intellectual property" and FoxCon slave labor, where Amazon uses strong-arm Walmart-style tactics to make short-term profits, burning down both suppliers and distributors in order to dominate the growing internet mail-order business. All three of these giants are direct results of the Internet as a whole, in the areas of Information, Entertainment Media and Physical Merchandise.

By contrast, Elon Musk is doing something we haven't seen in a long time; creating new manufacturing muscle in the West, quite separate from the Internet, delivering exciting and fresh, genuinely useful products, all with an eye to sustainable growth and literal expansion and exploration, (with his SpaceX program). His profits don't come from cannibalizing existing systems and the extortion of others. He seems to be in tune with the creative principle.

How can such a thing be in this reality, which is geared so heavily toward psychopathy and entropy?


While pondering, this paragraph jumped out:

"[...] I’d ask them (Musk's employees) about their work, their thoughts on the company as a whole and the broader industry, and then I’d ask them about their relationship with Elon and what it was like to work for him. Without exception, they were really nice-seeming, friendly people, who all came off as ridiculously smart but in a non-pretentious way. Musk has said he has a strict “no assholes” hiring policy, and I could see that at work in these meetings."

I wonder if Musk has, in all his reading, accumulated an understanding of some of the psychological forces which can serve to undermine a system?

Musk was born in 1971 in South Africa. Childhood wasn’t a great time for him—he had a tough family life and never fit in well at school.2 But, like you often read in the bios of extraordinary people, he was an avid self-learner early on. His brother Kimbal has said Elon would often read for 10 hours a day—a lot of science fiction and eventually, a lot of non-fiction too. By fourth grade, he was constantly buried in the Encyclopedia Britannica.

One thing you’ll learn about Musk as you read these posts is that he thinks of humans as computers, which, in their most literal sense, they are. A human’s hardware is his physical body and brain. His software is the way he learns to think, his value system, his habits, his personality. And learning, for Musk, is simply the process of “downloading data and algorithms into your brain.”3 Among his many frustrations with formal classroom learning is the “ridiculously slow download speed” of sitting in a classroom while a teacher explains something, and to this day, most of what he knows he’s learned through reading.

I also just read while catching up on some of the major threads around here, Laura's reproduction of a description of what made Caesar great...

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,37292.msg487989.html#msg487989

It provides an interesting backdrop and food for thought.

On the other hand...

Who is to say that this is not another deliberate move by 4D STS to do something spooky we can't quite yet picture?

For whatever it's worth, I note that at the moment I get a positive vibe from Elon Musk, where I've felt deep distrust and the desire to snarl at the likes of Apple and Amazon. Google I still don't know what to think of exactly...
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

Ahhh.

Things are coming together as I read through this...

Musk certainly knows a great deal, but he's clearly not a SOTT reader.

If the author of this series is to be believed, Musk is driven by standard global warming theory and he's concerned by such adorable little logic puzzles as the so-called "Fermi Paradox".

Oh dear..!

But his leadership style! Wow. He sounds like a top notch boss man.

I wonder if it's worth sending him a copy of Secret History or something..?
 

Hindsight Man

Jedi Master
Re: Elon Musk

He doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that there are periodic dyings on this planet,nor the cyclical nature of human civilizations.His view of consciousness is also rather simplistic,an on/off switch.He seems to genuinely care about humanity and appears very intelligent and resourceful,but he has a lack of understanding of psychopathy and many other vital points,so all of his titanic efforts are not likely to amount to much once the timer of this cycle runs out. :/
 
D

Deleted member 11729

Guest
Re: Elon Musk

Michael Martin thank you very much for this link and thread ... what to think about Elon is something what bugs me for looong time ... he seams to be almost like advanced version of Tesla, but than here and there some confusing spot appear ... don't know ... but more I am observing him, more I am seeing his efforts to be closer to the characteristics of one STO candidate, maybe even a 6D wanderer, than to be a servant of powerful 4D STS masters ...

Hindsight Man said:
but he has a lack of understanding of psychopathy and many other vital points,so all of his titanic efforts are not likely to amount to much once the timer of this cycle runs out. :/

I am not sure he has a luck of knowledge about psychopathy?... but apart from his scientific and technical improvements of human life in general, even if he will not provide that, what is already a lot! ... if he will just provide a normal and human and creative, not competitive, working conditions for young scientists and creatives, that must affect life on them and their families, what makes them feel more confident and stable in life, what encourage them then to look for self growth and knowledge about the world around us, so in general just with that, he do contribute A LOT to the moment "when timer the timer of this cycle runs out" ...

I wanted actually to ask what is that what contribute? How we can summarize it in few sentences?
 

Hindsight Man

Jedi Master
Re: Elon Musk

solarmind said:
Michael Martin thank you very much for this link and thread ... what to think about Elon is something what bugs me for looong time ... he seams to be almost like advanced version of Tesla, but than here and there some confusing spot appear ... don't know ... but more I am observing him, more I am seeing his efforts to be closer to the characteristics of one STO candidate, maybe even a 6D wanderer, than to be a servant of powerful 4D STS masters ...

Hindsight Man said:
but he has a lack of understanding of psychopathy and many other vital points,so all of his titanic efforts are not likely to amount to much once the timer of this cycle runs out. :/

I am not sure he has a luck of knowledge about psychopathy?... but apart from his scientific and technical improvements of human life in general, even if he will not provide that, what is already a lot! ... if he will just provide a normal and human and creative, not competitive, working conditions for young scientists and creatives, that must affect life on them and their families, what makes them feel more confident and stable in life, what encourage them then to look for self growth and knowledge about the world around us, so in general just with that, he do contribute A LOT to the moment "when timer the timer of this cycle runs out" ...

I wanted actually to ask what is that what contribute? How we can summarize it in few sentences?

What I meant was that,out of all the things he cites as being a danger to our civilization,he doesn't mention corruption in governments or big industries once.Instead he's preoccupied with things like A.I. and global warming.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

That blog post series IS a book disguised as a blog post series.

And it has been a wonderful read so far!

I'm about half-way through Tim's discussion of SpaceX, and I'm wondering at this point if it wouldn't actually be unfortunate if Elon Musk were to learn more about How Things Really Work.

That is, his drive to put a million people on Mars -as a direct insurance policy against the planetary extinction cycle (of which he is very much aware), is entirely based on his alignment with the precepts of "Official Reality".

It'd almost be like teaching young 20-somethings enthralled with dating and finding their fortunes, about real reality versus the ever-popular illusion of human life... Much of that which made the 3rd Density "Pot of Gold" an alluring destination incarnation would evaporate, cancelling the drive to learn a great number of basic soul lessons. -It'd be like pulling the plug on the bumper car ride half-way through.

Elon Musk's mission may be vanity based on ignorance.., but he doesn't appear to know that! At present, his creative endeavor is kind of awesome, filled with genuine hunger and drive. That makes for an engaging lesson!

While his adventure falls outside several of the relevant boundaries of the what those of us on the SOTT forum are exploring, it would be a shame if he didn't get to finish his cool painting of spaceships and electric cars. -And there IS some overlap. For him to succeed would (possibly) indicate a branch of reality where the psychopaths hold less power.
 

Pierre

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

I hope that Elon Musk is a true hero like Putin because, at this point, the people desperately need good inspiring leaders. However, I'm wondering if Elon Musk is really who he seems to be.

What first caught my attention was this article showing how Musk used and fired Eberhart, the inventor of the first Tesla cars.

I also have doubts about the benefits of electric cars for manhood and the planet. When you think about it, electricity has to be produced by power plants (nuclear, coal, diesel,...) which exhibit large environmental costs, in addition massive quantities of batteries have to be manufactured and they come with large environmental cost too (laden with toxic material and poorly recyclable. So, in the end, are electric cars more environment friendly than efficient fuel cars?

I really hope that I'm wrong and that Musk will help shape a better future.
 

axj

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

Hindsight Man said:
He doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that there are periodic dyings on this planet,nor the cyclical nature of human civilizations.His view of consciousness is also rather simplistic,an on/off switch.He seems to genuinely care about humanity and appears very intelligent and resourceful,but he has a lack of understanding of psychopathy and many other vital points,so all of his titanic efforts are not likely to amount to much once the timer of this cycle runs out. :/

It seems actually to be the opposite. He pursues a "multi-planetary civilization" precisely because he is aware that things can and do go very wrong on this planet. I remember him saying something to the effect that right now we may have only a short time window and that something like WWIII may make it impossible. As to his understanding of consciousness, I am not sure that we can draw conclusions on what he thinks about that based on a quote by somebody else.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

Pierre said:
I also have doubts about the benefits of electric cars for manhood and the planet. When you think about it, electricity has to be produced by power plants (nuclear, coal, diesel,...) which exhibit large environmental costs, in addition massive quantities of batteries have to be manufactured and they come with large environmental cost too (laden with toxic material and poorly recyclable. So, in the end, are electric cars more environment friendly than efficient fuel cars?

Musk has a stake in solar power generation which is "cleaner" than many other types of power generation schemes. I have seen future looking diagrams which show that increasing portion of power gets generated through rooftop and commercial solar installations. There are significant problems to be solved in this area but one has to start somewhere. I do not know where the current figures stand but 2 years ago, 5% of the total utility scale power generated in the US state of California came from solar panels. I believe this number deals with grid tied solar panel applications. The number of 5% must have gone up since then. Also, a portion of rural households have cut their connection with the electricity grid and rely on solar panels, batteries and propane/natural gas powered backup generators.

Batteries are more problematic. The older technology of lead acid batteries are cheaper and used widely. They have significant environmental impact. Large scale high power lithium ion is provided as an alternative but it has a long way to go and it has environmental impact as well. As things stand at present, breakthroughs in battery technology may be essential to propel the field that Musk is invested in.
 

JonnyRadar

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

I personally think Musk is kind of taken with his own image as the "Tony Stark" of our society, a technological savior, so to speak. But he does leave out other really important points about societal reform from his pursuits, concentrating mostly on technology. I'm with Pierre, I hope he will ultimately be a positive influence, but who can say...

I had the chance once to meet his head of engineering, and he said that Musk intends to live his final days on the surface of Mars and die there, so perhaps he's not actually too invested in our own planet? My 2 cents...
 
D

Deleted member 11729

Guest
Re: Elon Musk

Pierre said:
I hope that Elon Musk is a true hero like Putin because, at this point, the people desperately need good inspiring leaders. However, I'm wondering if Elon Musk is really who he seems to be.

What first caught my attention was this article showing how Musk used and fired Eberhart, the inventor of the first Tesla cars.

I also have doubts about the benefits of electric cars for manhood and the planet. When you think about it, electricity has to be produced by power plants (nuclear, coal, diesel,...) which exhibit large environmental costs, in addition massive quantities of batteries have to be manufactured and they come with large environmental cost too (laden with toxic material and poorly recyclable. So, in the end, are electric cars more environment friendly than efficient fuel cars?

I really hope that I'm wrong and that Musk will help shape a better future.

As about electric car, yes it is not really a big deal if there is no real replacement for other infrastructure that still use gas etc ... here is something just created in Japan:

_https://www.rt.com/news/336116-japanese-electric-car-vehicle/

that leads to solution more suitable for clean energy use if accompanied with solar panels in space, that will provide sun energy directly form space ... what I have a chance to see at Kyoto University with scientist Hiroshi Matsumoto, where they developing this technology of harnessing sun energy from space, where they also demonstrated to us something like this electrified road ..

but yes electric car is not a big deal, but idea to give all patents for free, and not invest a single money in marketing, is actually a really big deal for one American investor ...

he seams to be vague to place in a niche straight forward, but than yep I also do hope his intentions are good, as if so, than all his effort will bring positive change ... some how same as Tesla or anyone who was so crazy about doing his ideas that were hardly understand and far out of time .. scientist in general they all work for future, as it is not enough one human life to see things form a bigger perspective ..

Woodsman said:
Elon Musk's mission may be vanity based on ignorance.., but he doesn't appear to know that! At present, his creative endeavor is kind of awesome, filled with genuine hunger and drive. That makes for an engaging lesson!

While his adventure falls outside several of the relevant boundaries of the what those of us on the SOTT forum are exploring, it would be a shame if he didn't get to finish his cool painting of spaceships and electric cars. -And there IS some overlap. For him to succeed would (possibly) indicate a branch of reality where the psychopaths hold less power.

yep I also bug my mind with the idea how is it possible that he never stumble upon things like this forum sot etc ... well how can we know that?

Reading between the lines, when he talks in general about work, success, life, people, money - he really don't care about money at all ... education - he formed a school for his kids as he was unsatisfied with all what exist in the world ...

Also I have a feeling he know far more about those things than I do for sure, but he just don't speak about it openly. And I can understand why. It is totally clear that he is completely sure that governments are bunch of idiots, and that is why he decided to invest his money at something that governments invested and failed all the time ... so no need for him to say that loudly, when he know that.

Also for what he do and what he try to achieve, specially with his space program, he can't do it without "super smart cooperation" with all this ugly big heads in governments and around ... so he has to be very very smart about how he communicate with and about them ... so it is not just that people who are on this forum and who share sott stuff are the ones who can deliver something that contribute ... the work of real scientist who work for science not for his career and salary, is a work that rarely has one end or final solution at the life time of a scientist, so he as a scientist, he just understand that he has to use his talent + money to do something much bigger than pleas hims self ... for example as without Tesla who knows if we will ever had a chance to be on this forum to communicate and share ... so it is very very important to scientifically continue and keep going development of technology of communication and energy consumption, and space exploration, as we had no idea how that will affect the "future" generations where ever they are already or where they might bee ... from earth to mars and beyond and already ;)

So when I see him how he stumble upon a problem, and he is not ranting around it, he just see if he can improve it, and he do that ... hey! that is how you do your life right .. if you feel you are oppressed by the system, it is much better to create your own, than to fight the old one ... and he can do that, as he has enormous amount of money on his disposal to make it real, so it will be quite stupid not to do that I think ... I am asking myself, how there is no much more of rich people from creative industries, who are investing in improvements of society and human life .... what all those actors, singers, start of all kind, what they do with that money?!?!? We all know how much is needed for normal life and we all know what we can do extra with just 10% more .. so why that is not a trend among rich people who are in 40th actually?....

So it is more like that he don't have time to mess around with that stupid games in politics. He have to deal with a quite complex things every day through his mind, form pure "with mind up in the stratosphere" innovation, to very down to earth production, and it is not simple to handle that, and for sure he can't cloud his thoughts with trying to communicate with the world unnecessary information and opinions about stuff he is not considering him self to be one expert, like in those he is, and he is taking his full capacity in ...

Still keep reading this blogpost ... and feel like he is really fascinating and good role model for younger generations in many things ...
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

While I see a lot of positives with Musk and his endeavors, one serious concern I have with the electric vehicle theme is that of lithium poisoning.

Back in 2009, I wrote this post on something called, "Cyclotronic Resonance" while researching issues with EM radiation.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,11755.msg84131.html#msg84131

(Take a quick look. It has nice diagrams and such explaining the phenomenon).

-The upshot being that basic 60 htz wall socket power (which comes standard in millions of homes and which most of us are being exposed to this very moment), combined with the Earth's natural magnetic field, plus trace quantities of lithium in the bloodstream can create a narcotic effect similar to that seen with prescription anti-depressant drugs.

That's kind of huge.

So.., when an entire culture is driving around in EVs, how much lithium can be expected to leach into the biosphere?

For some indication, we can look at the existing phone and computer battery market.., though it remains a relatively new phenomenon. Widespread cell phone penetration is only in the last few years reaching a saturation point, and there doesn't seem to be much study of the impact of battery disposal and degradation. -I found this article which suggests that many old cell phones are simply being hoarded. http://www.arp.net.au/envcha.php -The suggestion is made that a significant portion of these old batteries can ultimately be expected to make their way into the trash and consequently, landfills, where they will be free to degrade their plastic casings and finally, leach their toxic contents into the biosphere. -Given that going from battery manufacture to the eventual leaching of lithium is a years-long process, we may not yet have experienced even the leading edge of this toxic wave.

So if phones are getting upgraded so frequently, what happens to old unwanted phones? Old mobile phones just do not fade away, they are retired to drawers and shelves around the country. It is estimated that Australians are hoarding 10 million phones.

All of us as consumers, perceive value in our old electronic products. As there is usually no trade-in when you upgrade for a new model, our natural hoarding instinct tells us to keep the old phones, give them to relatives, or store them for emergency use. However history also shows that these phones eventually find their way into the rubbish bin and that's where the problem starts.

-Add to this already freaky notion a new and vast distribution of waste lithium from the automotive industry, and we can begin to predict a future where the entire human landscape is blanket medicated into (an even deeper state) of stupefied subservience by a powerful psychoactive drug, not distributed over the counter or via needles, but through our reliance on computers and the car industry. Talk about sneaky population control!

I may be overstating things; perhaps programs for efficient and clean recycling of batteries will be adopted. But FWIW, this remains my primary concern with the whole electric vehicle trend.
 

axj

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

Jonathan said:
I personally think Musk is kind of taken with his own image as the "Tony Stark" of our society, a technological savior, so to speak. But he does leave out other really important points about societal reform from his pursuits, concentrating mostly on technology.

I don't know how much you can expect from just one man. He already runs three huge companies (Space X, Tesla, SolarWorld) and each would be a full-time job in itself. I'd say some people have a calling to achieve societal changes through politics/activism, while others may have a calling to improve society in other ways. And while the technological improvement may not be the most important one, it has many positive effects, including inspiration for a lot of people.
 
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