Elon Musk and Space X

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
At this time the Germany plant is under great strain and scrutiny. It maybe a while before it's production line's come full circle.
The hurdles that Tesla faces in Europe are many.

There is always scrutiny when thousands of people and billions of dollars are involved. That's not saying it isn't justified. But even if you have the best of intentions. It's too big to have 100% oversight.

Is Putin for example responsible for all the bad stuff carried out by corrupt government officials?

I'm not saying Musk is doing a good or bad job. Just pointing this out.
 

Seppo Ilmarinen

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Yeah, here's pretty good summary about Musk's real contribution behind the companies (such as PayPal) he has used to build his reputation and fortune.

With the recent back and forth with Bitcoin he appears as someone with infantile and narcissistic personality traits, getting temper tantrums when his knowledge or motives gets challenged in Twitter (he has track record of some nasty behavior, e.g the 'pedo guy' tweet case)

His rise to fame seems to have some similarities with Gates, wealthy background and riding into success through other people's hard work, which they both try to cover up later in order to build cult of personality and fairy tale story.

Here's another interesting video about Musk's shady business history, this time with SolarCity (founded by his two cousins, funded and chaired by Musk), and how he incorporated this near banckrupt company with 3.4 billion debt into Tesla. Because Elon Musk owned 22% of the SolarCity stocks, and the purchase of the company was paid in Tesla stocks, Musk profited over 8 billion dollars from the deal.


Musk's Space X company had bought 255 million dollars worth of SolarCity bonds, as had Musk himself with 75 million dollars, and his cousins with 38 million dollars. Musk had took huge loans in order to make these purchases possible, and had backed the credit with his own Tesla stocks.

In order to make the SolarCity deal approved by the shareholders, he made unrealistic and overhyped claims about the product (which seems to be Musk's MO). After the deal Tesla started to make heavy cuts into its new solar panel sector and to bring it down. Quality of the products have been inferior and there has been cases where their panels have caught on fire (Walmart and Amazon even sued Tesla because of this).

Musk had made a deal with New York city mayor Andrew Cuomo to build solar panel factory (Gigafactory 2) which cost nearly 1 billion of tax payer dollars. Later audited the factory and all it's equipments were estimated to be only worth of 75 million dollars.

Elon Musk has been sued for his conflict of interest in the SolarCity acquisition. The class action lawsuit was supposed to start march this year, but has been postponed indefinitely due to covid pandemic situation... :whistle:
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yeah, here's pretty good summary about Musk's real contribution behind the companies (such as PayPal) he has used to build his reputation and fortune.

With the recent back and forth with Bitcoin he appears as someone with infantile and narcissistic personality traits, getting temper tantrums when his knowledge or motives gets challenged in Twitter (he has track record of some nasty behavior, e.g the 'pedo guy' tweet case)

His rise to fame seems to have some similarities with Gates, wealthy background and riding into success through other people's hard work, which they both try to cover up later in order to build cult of personality and fairy tale story.

I am not saying that all of this is not true. But this kind of docu's (including on Netflix) also exists about Trump and his supposed shady business practices. Problem is that maybe only 1 side of the story is told. Try doing business when there is a lot of money involved. People will try to rip you off left and right if you are not careful. There will always be people who unjustly call out what a crook you are. Only because they didn't get what they want.

I don't expect anything from Musk. Especially since SpaceX and Tesla are mainly kept afloat by government subsidies. That's NASA and the Green lobby. In short, the government has Musk in its pockets at the end of the day.

Therefore, wouldn't surprise me why this is the reason he suddenly pulled Tesla out of Bitcoin. Because cryptos could potentially undermine the dollar. Maybe he got a phone call.


But in other news:


In his recent speech, the billionaire called for a more open dialogue between Washington and Moscow.

“There is a lot of talent and energy in Russia, and I think there should be more dialogue and communication between Russia and the United States,” Musk said.
 

c.a.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Problems in Germany for sidewinder Herr Musk.

  • An accident report commissioned by Tesla draws two serious scenarios for the factory in Grünheide. On the one hand, according to the current state of planning, it is possible for gas clouds to form in the halls that could explode and trigger fires.
  • In addition, toxic irritant gases could form that could attack the respiratory tract of employees and residents who live in the vicinity of the factory premises.
  • This is the result of joint research by Business Insider and the ZDF magazine “Frontal21”. The accident report is available to both editorial teams.
Elon Musk had a sense of achievement shortly before his departure in the middle of this week. The State Office for the Environment has given its factory in Grünheide what is now the 14th provisional permit, and the car manufacturer is now allowed to set up machines for the final assembly of vehicles in the factory halls. Although the factory has not yet been finally approved, it is pulled up in no time by the many temporary green lights from the control authority - and is almost finished.

That could now become a problem. A disruption report commissioned by Tesla and drawn up by the engineering company Müller-BBM from Hamburg gives the factory and the car manufacturer a disastrous testimony. Based on the chemicals and substances used, the report discusses the likelihood of scenarios that could lead to serious accidents. Two in particular are particularly relevant.

Exploding clouds of gas

The experts sketch out a scenario in which a container in the paint shop, from which the liquid n-butyl acetate leaks, is damaged. The released liquid then spreads freely in the hall. “Evaporation from the pool with spreading in the environment or ignition and burn-off of the gas cloud is assumed. The evaporation time is assumed to be 10 minutes, ”says the report.

The experts conclude that this scenario is plausible, i.e. possible. And attest Tesla that it is not prepared for it.

Oliver Kalusch, an expert in plant safety and immission control from the Federal Association of Citizens' Initiatives Environmental Protection (BBU), finds clear words for the process: “Put simply, this is about the leakage of toxic substances that form a pool. This evaporates relatively quickly and forms a gas cloud that can explode or lead to fires. This scenario, it has to be said so harshly, can become a serious and real incident. "

Irritant gas attacks the airways

In another scenario, it is assumed that the chemical tetrafluoropropene escapes - not in gaseous form, but as a pressure-liquefied gas, i.e. a liquid. This could form a puddle "that spreads either unhindered or within a collecting area," says the report. It can be assumed that a puddle fire will follow and then the gases will evaporate. According to the report, the fire can produce hydrogen fluoride. This is an irritant gas that attacks people's airways. This scenario is also described as plausible in the report.

Expert Kalusch warns against this possibility. “The gas is very toxic for the employees - and possibly even for the residents. The gas cloud could leak out of the factory and reach surrounding houses. This cannot be ruled out based on Tesla's poor calculations, ”says Kalusch.

Lack of data depth, evidence and naive assumptions

Tesla had already dealt with the two risk scenarios mentioned before the report - and labeled them as very unlikely. In their report, the Hamburg experts now criticize the depth of data, lack of evidence and Tesla's rather naive assumptions - and contradict the car manufacturer. The experts demand from Tesla to completely “derive and consider” the scenarios.

Kalush doubts that Tesla will still do this. “The core problem is that Tesla is incredibly cautious about this data, which is important for the safety of the factory, the employees and the surrounding communities - or does not calculate it conservatively enough, but basically assumes the best case. I venture a prognosis: If Tesla does not make fundamental improvements, it will not do anything with the final approval ”.

Kalusch had already submitted a statement on behalf of the BBU in January in which he and colleagues had already taken up and criticized the two scenarios mentioned. The experts commissioned by Tesla take up his opinion in their analysis and support it. Kalusch calls for the Tesla factory to be classified as an “upper-class operating area”, that is, one in which numerous dangerous substances are used. The classification would force Tesla to submit a lengthy, detailed safety plan to prevent possible accidents.

Earlier this week, the @CA_DMV put Tesla “under review” for public statements that may violate state regulations that prohibit automakers from advertising vehicles for sale or lease as autonomous... 2/8

...unless the vehicle meets the statutory and regulatory definition of an autonomous vehicle and the company holds a deployment permit. 3/8

Safety experts worry that the automaker's bold claims risk the kind of misuse that has been widely seen on social media, where some owners have demonstrated unsafe behavior by relying too much on the car’s autonomous abilities. 4/8

Though it has made significant strides in automated driving, owners should not use Tesla's driver assistance features as a substitute for remaining engaged, based on Consumer Reports’ extensive testing and experience. 5/8

Throughout the fall of 2020, we assessed the Full Self-Driving Capability features on Tesla vehicles we previously purchased for our regular testing program. 6/8

We put each feature in the suite to the test, and the results were mixed, to say the least. For details on our testing results, read more here: 7/8

Tesla's 'Full Self-Driving Capability' Falls Short of Its Name
In this review of Tesla's Full Self-Driving Capability, Consumer Reports says the $8,000 option doesn’t make the car self-driving, though it does offer a host of advanced features. Demonstration can...consumerreports.org

“Tesla has repeatedly rolled out crude beta features, some of which can put people’s safety at risk and shouldn’t be used anywhere but on a private test track or proving ground,” says William Wallace, manager of safety policy for Consumer Reports. 8/8
TeslaDeaths.com


THURSDAY, MAY 20, 2021 | TOM KRISHER, AP AUTO WRITER

New Ford joint venture to build two electric-vehicle battery factories
5:19 p.m. May 20, 2021 | MarketWatch.com
 

rs

Dagobah Resident
Tesla has an automobile factory in California and a "Gigafactory" for batteries in Las Vegas. What I don't understand about the German issues is "why aren't there the same issues in the USA?" There are both Tesla sycophants and haters here in the good ole USA. Unless perhaps German regulations are significantly different than US - which seems unlikely in the socialist state of California.

As far as "self driving" is concerned, Tesla is very clear to its customers that 1) the car is *not* autonomous!! and 2) using the "self-driving" feature requires the driver to be paying attention to take control at a moment's notice. The "self-driving" feature, as it exists today, is more like a really fancy cruise control - useful for freeway driving only. The $8,000 fee for "autonomous" driving is the pre-purchase of a feature that has not been released yet. There have been a number of accidents using the self driving feature of a Tesla, but in almost all cases, the driver was subsequently proven to be profoundly negligent. There are YouTube videos of people apparently asleep at the wheel. There is a recent example where there was literally no-one in the driver seat! (I'm not even sure how this was possible.) Tesla is not (nor is any other manufacturer) responsible for the incredible stupidity of their users. As Forrest Gump so clearly stated, "stupid is as stupid does". (I own a Tesla so feel qualified to make this point.)

The China "brake failure" is lacking any context. What was the driver doing? Did the driver have their foot on both the accelerator and the brake? There are plenty of examples of 1) fires 2) uncontrolled acceleration 3) stupid drivers in gasoline engine cars, but Tesla has actual data to prove that their product has fewer incidents per passenger mile in all cases. Now that "self driving" is becoming more available across the spectrum of automobiles, you *will* see equivalent examples in other manufacturers vehicles, in fact you will see more because Tesla is years ahead of the others because their software is based on billions of user miles of AI training.

Ford is going to get a serious black eye with the release of the F-150 Lightening for one reason. Some people buy a truck because they think driving around in a big truck makes them cool. Others expect a truck to be, well, a truck. As in haul heavy stuff. Tow a trailer. There are YouTube videos showing a Tesla Model X suffering from extreme range limits when towing a trailer that it is technically rated for. A Model X has no problem towing 5,000 pounds of trailer. Just not very far... The Ford truck has the "extended range" option to extend the range to 300 miles - without towing anything. The first time someone hooks up their trailer to their F-150 Lightening, they are going to be in for a shock when they end up having to call for a tow to the nearest charger... The Tesla Cybertruck at least has an option for a 600 mile battery, which gives some genuine capacity for towing.

Tesla is a company people love to hate and Elon Musk is the obvious subject of envy. He is not a god, but he has done things that are repeated successes. PayPal, Tesla, The Boring Company, SpaceX, inspiring others to invest Billion$ of dollars in the "Hyperloop" idea. The Hyperloop was Elon Musk "spitballing" on a paper napkin. Others jumped on this to take it seriously. Name one other human being with this kind of cachet and/or track record.

Elon Musk wants to create a city on Mars. I think he is freaking nuts on this point but I sure am not going to bet against him...
 
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bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Everyone who is not doing business with Russia is missing out.

Russia’s Ministry of Industry and Trade has invited Elon Musk to discuss the opening of a Tesla factory in the world's largest country, saying the innovative US car maker could potentially qualify for a state support program.

 

SOTTREADER

The Living Force
I think Musk is in place to appeal to people who like to think of themselves as progressives and people who believe technology will solve most of our problems.

I don't necessarily think him evil, rather I think this is a role he has managed to drive himself into and is allowed to play by wider forces. He shepherds people into this arena, I suspect young and naive people. In the future this will be critical when smart cities and transhumans get ushered in - and other things like these. In the here and now he might seem somewhat odd but I reckon his role is more aimed at shaping what's to come should things go as "planned".
 

c.a.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Same old Elon just another day of deception for the Tesla cult.

The Tesla CEO for years has made exaggerated claims about the potential of autonomous driving, but a spate of suspicious collisions, regulatory investigations and viral videos of driver misuse show he needs to change his ways

Last Updated: May 26, 2021 at 7:22 a.m. ET
Snip:
Tesla Inc. TSLA, 0.38% has been charging customers up to $10,000 for “full self-driving” technology for nearly five years. The problem is that such technology does not exist. The company’s cars are equipped with a driver-assistance system, or ADAS, known as Autopilot, which is free of charge. It’s similar to systems offered by other manufacturers, such as General Motors Co.’s GM, 2.81% Super Cruise.

In that time, Musk has provided overly optimistic timelines to full autonomy and exaggerated the current and near-term capabilities of Autopilot. Tesla’s ADAS system lacks technology that most of the industry considers critical to safety, namely a driver-monitoring system. Musk predicted that a Tesla would be able to drive autonomously from Los Angeles to New York in 2018, a trip that still has not happened, and in 2019, he said all Teslas would be fully functioning robotaxis in the near future, which is unlikely, if not impossible.


RT / 1:06:26 Alex Epstein Congressional testimony and Q&A, May 19, 2021

RT / 12:26

Behind Tesla’s rise, part 2: Former Tesla worker speaks out on grueling, unsafe working conditions
Snip: David Brown, Eric Luin 24 May 2021
According to Business Insider, from 2017 through 2019, Tesla was cited by Cal/OSHA for 45 safety violations and received $277,955 in associated fines related to vehicle manufacturing, more than all the Detroit Big Three automakers combined, which themselves have increasingly undermined workplace safety with the assistance of the United Auto Workers union. In the same period, General Motors, logged six violations and $22,411 in fines; Ford had 18 and $90,162; or Fiat Chrysler, 23 and $90,797.

“Safety problems weren’t just from a lack of training,” Howard explained. “They placed the station where we clocked in and out within three feet of this huge crane battery, right next to stacks of part palettes and an active forklift lane. You had to step over the caution tape on the ground just to punch in. We’d always joke whether today was the day we’d get crushed by a palette or hit by an arc coming off the battery. We tried using other stations to clock in, but our supervisor insisted that this was his idea and we had to use that station.”



BY LEXI LONAS - 05/26/21 04:16 PM EDT
An overnight fire at the construction site for the Tesla gigafactory in Germany is under investigation after a letter from far-left activists took credit for it.

The fire was started early Wednesday morning at Gruenheide, according to a spokesperson for the LKA state criminal investigation office, Reuters reported.

A spokesperson told Reuters that power cables going to the construction site were damaged.

The activists took credit for the fire saying "Tesla is neither green, ecological nor social,” the spokesperson told Reuters.

The group said they set fire to six cables above the ground so they could cut off the power supply to the construction site for the gigafactory that is set to open in late 2021.

The spokesperson for LKA said they are investigating the letter and have not ruled arson out.
 

Menna

The Living Force
I welcomed wealth but it comes with sins.

Elon musk is where he is partly because of fraud, lies, embellishments and so on. There is also a positive side. Or can there be a positive side with such negative characteristics?

Gov agencies claim discover find sue and move on. As a result Tesla loses money short term and now has bumpers on - regarding how to move forward. Gov makes money from Tesla and now Tesla has to operate within confines and gains future profits after the Gov slap or should I say forced course correct and let’s them operate. The Gov needs Tesla and Tesla needs the Gov and WE the people don’t need any of it.

it’s a repeating story just with a different business name replace Tesla with “____” a similar dynamic will play out.
 
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Brewer

Jedi Master
It's always interests me to see the latest claims of Musk's achievements, I don't actively search for them they just pop up on my feed here and there. Here's the most recent video extolling the amazing abilities of his pressure suits.

First up, they look 'cool' well if you think ALDI motorbike leathers look cool, whatever floats your boat. The SpaceX suit is designed by a Hollywood costume designer which says a lot.

At 1:50 Musk claims they've been double vacuum tested with humans inside. Well, where's the footage Elon? In fact, I've scoured the web for footage of any vacuum chamber testing involving pressure suits but have found nothing. Nothing for any pressure suits from any era or any nation, the closest I can find is this vintage footage and high altitude tests for U-2 pilots.

Watch a demonstration of the Sokol pressure suit, you'll notice at 2:00 that the main pressure seal is provided by scrunching up the pressure bladder and tying it off. The SpaceX suit has multiple zippers, a zipper seal would probably only work with an abundant supply of ducted pressurized air to compensate for the leaks. When the Sokol suit is pressurized you'll also note that the occupant is formed into a foetal position and strapped down into his seat, important in a cramped capsule. The SpaceX, never seen it fully pressurized to 15 psi, looking at it's design you'd probably turn into a spread-eagled human starfish.

Until I see some convincing data, it's cosplay, a continuation of the feel-good lie, the great lie, that's endured for decades.

Time for laugh, it's all you can do, a great video, using the awesome Thunderbirds theme!
 

c.a.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The #Tesla brand as well as Musk's antics continue to draw controversy. With the Model S having issues with control and constant troubles with cabin fire's.






Video / 04:03 - 7-6-21
Chinese electric-vehicle maker XPeng Inc. raised $1.8 billion in a homecoming share sale. The dual listing in Hong Kong will add to the company's war chest at a time when rival Tesla Inc. is looking particularly weak in China. Vice Chairman and President Brian Gu discusses the listing, regulatory risks, competitions and the future of the EV market with Bloomberg's Yvonne Man. (Source: Bloomberg)

Tesla Model 3 most popular EV in France in 2021, fifth most popular vehicle overall
Replying to @DriveTeslaca and @mortenlund89
It is the first BEV for 2021 but I do not have the same number for the most popular vehicle. The numbers I have show the Model 3 to be 18th overall. Please see this file, page 18: https://pfa-auto.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Dossier-de-presse-CCFA-0621.pdf… I think maybe overall 5th place might be for EV (BEV + Hybrids) only? 10:58 AM · Jul 6, 2021·Twitter Web App
 

XPan

The Living Force
A nine year old Macaque, plays MindPong with his Neuralink.

Elon Musk. Neuralink... so here we go.
Interesting yet also very creepy, especially when considering that the dark side has a strong tendency to subvert any technology which then is used against humanity... When the guy took out his iPhone, that is when i felt nauseous... like a brief glimpse of a possible future; A reduction of humanity into something futile. Matrix battery anyone ?

I am aware of that yes, it could serve good 3D purposes, if used with moral, dignity and wise discernment. But I don't see that happening in our realm - not when it boils down, where the collective power usually twists any potentially good tech into dark control mechanisms.
 

GreyCat

Padawan Learner
Ah. Elon Musk. What to say. Since I have worked for a competitor electric car manufacturer in early days of the industry, say 6 to 7 yrs ago, I know full well whats he on about. He has a half cooked product which he sells like its fully finished. Sorry, that doesnt sit good with me. To me, Musk is an antithesis of Japanese - he is fast, sometimes irrational or at least appears so, cutting edge tech but reliability, oh the reliability...

The same reason I love japanese cars is why I dislike Teslas - japanese almost always perfect anything they make to the point it works mostly perfect in most situations, and Tesla is a far far cry from it.

I can unlock, sit in my japanese diesel saloon any day, pretty much any conditions, start it up and be sure its gonna start right up in ANY conditions, I can be sure its firmly planted on the road and wont run away on me, I can be sure its just gonna outright work!

Tesla? Yea, you got me lauhging hard there...
 
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