Elongated Skulls: Ancient Species, very distant from human?

Pashalis

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Elongated human skulls of Peru: Possible evidence of a lost human species? -- Sott.net

DNA analysis of Paracas elongated skull finally complete - with incredible results -- Sott.net

The DNA results are as of yet preliminary, but indicate the following groundbreaking results:

"It had mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) with mutations unknown in any human, primate, or animal known so far. But a few fragments I was able to sequence from this sample indicate that if these mutations will hold we are dealing with a new human-like creature, very distant from Homo sapiens, Neanderthals and Denisovans."
As of now, it looks like the same DNA results are being made on other samples that are tested now, as well...

Here is a picture of one of those skulls:



Those skulls are at least 2000 - 3000 years old.

But that is not all, Brien Foerster tells us about other "strange" features of those skulls:

- It is well-known that most cases of skull elongation are the result of cranial deformation, head flattening, or head binding, in which the skull is intentionally deformed by applying force over a long period of time. It is usually achieved by binding the head between two pieces of wood, or binding in cloth. However, while cranial deformation changes the shape of the skull, it does not alter its volume, weight, or other features that are characteristic of a regular human skull.

The Paracas skulls, however, are different. The cranial volume is up to 25 percent larger and 60 percent heavier than conventional human skulls, meaning they could not have been intentionally deformed through head binding/flattening.

- Those skulls only contain one parietal plate, rather than two and doctors who have studied it say, that this is impossible

- They had reddish brown hair, which is proven genetically. Not like the black hair of native americans.

- The eye sockets are much bigger then in humans

- Those people were in everage, between 5 and 10 feet tall. Much bigger then the native peruvian people there.

- There are two holes in the back of the skulls, where it seems nerve and/or bloodflow have come out off. It looks like those holes are natural.

- There seems to be three different types and shapes of these Paracas skulls

You can listen to some of his results here (from 0:15:20 - 0:19:57)
_

And more here:


https://youtu.be/f3jXqzp716A

And here, you can see a comparison made by Brien Foerster, between a normal human skull, a cranial deformed human skull and a elongated Paracas skull:


https://youtu.be/Uue1em05qus

Notice also that he talks about three different types and shapes of these Paracas skulls in the video above...

Here you can see the two holes in the back of the skull, mentioned earlier (1:35 - 2:20):


https://youtu.be/BQmLqOyPfKU

Where is the big media and scientific firestorm, that should be expected from such a massive discovery??

Well...
 
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mkrnhr

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Funny, I was just watching this interview here: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qsj5QyB1bk
It's intriguing indeed
 

psychegram

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Pashalis said:
Where is the big media and scientific firestorm, that should be expected from such a massive discovery??

Well...
I fully expect the vast majority of scientists are unaware of this. I also fully expect that the small minority (like myself) who are, would never in a million years think of making any public statements regarding it ... or even bring it up conversationally with their colleagues. The programming against any thought of extraterrestrials is so thorough and deep that there is no quicker way to get oneself written off as a crank than to say anything that is not mocking or dismissive on the topic ... whatever the evidence may be.
 

mkrnhr

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psychegram said:
I fully expect the vast majority of scientists are unaware of this. I also fully expect that the small minority (like myself) who are, would never in a million years think of making any public statements regarding it ... or even bring it up conversationally with their colleagues. The programming against any thought of extraterrestrials is so thorough and deep that there is no quicker way to get oneself written off as a crank than to say anything that is not mocking or dismissive on the topic ... whatever the evidence may be.
LOL, seriously, don't. I worked for a time at a scientific thingy and the first thing I was asked was "what do you thing about Velikovsky?" I said "who?" (:evil:) and the guys started saying that's it's pseudoscience blabla, that whoever reads that stuff in not a scientist. Of course I innocently "but did you read yourself this?". You don't work for the Vatican and say you don't believe if god. Same with the academic dogma.
 

Pashalis

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Another interesting thing Brien Foerster is mentioning at a later point in the interview below, is that the people whom this skulls belonged to, were almost exclusively the royals or the elite of those societies. So it was actually the elite "up there" in power of those societies who were this other species. It should also be mentioned, that those skulls were not only found in Peru, but all over the globe... Brien Foerster talks about at least 1000 of those skulls, that we know of to date, all around the planet.

Pashalis said:
You can listen to some of his results here (from 0:15:20 - 0:19:57)
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlcsZtuEEok
 

Pashalis

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Laura said:
Any indicators that dating might be off?
I have no idea. I guess we would first need to find out how exactly they came up with those numbers and what process they were using to date it and in which manner it was conducted.

Maybe somebody could contact Brien for further informations about that?
 

Thomas Alan

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Mark Passio has a take on this in his video Cosmic Abandonment _http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/videos Second to the last on the page.

He speculates that they are the skulls of "demigods" left behind to rule humanity after beings from outer space or hyper-dimensional reality visited Earth and manipulated our DNA. The beings came to mine gold, and did the manipulations to create workers for the mines.

Mark acknowledges that he is guessing but his hypothesis has at least some plausibility. OSIT.

Mac
 

Esote

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Actually, there is no scientific credibility yet.
Before giving serious consideration to such Earth-shattering Research we might better wait until a paper is submitted and peer review is conducted, IMHO.
Mr. Foerster has indicated that the official results are forthcoming.
Until then, I'm kind of skeptical...
 

psychegram

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Eos said:
Actually, there is no scientific credibility yet.
Before giving serious consideration to such Earth-shattering Research we might better wait until a paper is submitted and peer review is conducted, IMHO.
Mr. Foerster has indicated that the official results are forthcoming.
Until then, I'm kind of skeptical...
This presupposes that peer-reviewed science is trustworthy (and it isn't, there's plenty of crud in the literature), and that passing peer review will actually bestow scientific credibility ... with a claim like this, it absolutely won't. The majority of scientists will no more accept this than they did, for instance, evidence of extraterrestrial biota collected via high-altitude balloons or found in meteorites. A paradigm is a hard thing to break.
 

shijing

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Laura said:
Any indicators that dating might be off?
There's a bit about the dating in this article from April 18, 2011:

Four hours drive south of Lima Peru lies the Paracas Peninsula, part of which is an ecological reserve, where one can see wildlife such as sea lions, and a myriad of various sea bird species. The area is amazingly rich in seafood, and abundant fresh water exists just below the surface of the desert sands.

Therefore, it would seem to be a perfect place for people to live. Stone tools, of various forms and styles of shaping have been found in the area, and cursory analysis has established dates of as old as 8000 years. The greatest of Peruvian archaeologists, in my estimation, Julio Tello, made studies in this area in 1928 and performed excavations on the north side of the peninsula, in the central area of the large semi-circular bay there. He discovered and excavated a massive and elaborate graveyard, where each tomb contained an entire family, each one ornately wrapped in multiple layers of highly stylized, woven and coloured cotton cloth. He also found the sand filled remains of subterranean houses, which turned out to be numerous; so numerous in fact, that the village stretched out for between 1 and 2 km [...]

Tello believed that the Paracas were related to the people of the Chavin culture, who created the famous megalithic site of Chavin de Huantar, mainly based on the fact that he saw similarities in pottery designs and motifs, especially feline figures. However, to my knowledge, no elongated skulls have been found in the area where the Chavin lived, north of Lima in the Ancash district, so that clearly is not the answer as to their origins. But, since Tello was the expert and main archaeologist at Chavin, where he placed an origin date of at least 3000 years ago, he then simply applied this for the Paracas as well, and no one has dared or bothered to refute his time line until now.

The Paracas people, living by the coast, were clearly fishermen, as evidenced by netting which has been found buried in the sand, as well as ancient middens, which are heaps of sea shells. No actual and extensive carbon 14 dating has been performed on the organic matter of the archaeological sites, and this was certainly not done by Tello, as his work was performed in 1928, whereas carbon 14 dating was not established until the 1940s. Also, very little work has been done at Paracas since the time of Tello, and the subterranean houses have once again filled up with sand [...]

Mr. Juan Navarro, owner and director of the local museum, called the Paracas History Museum, has a fine collection of artefacts from all of the cultures known and believed to have lived in this area, including the Paracas, Nazca, Chincha and Inca. Amongst his displayed collection of stone implements and clay pots is an elongated skull. Upon inquiring as to its age, he stated that he is a firm believer of the time line set forth by Tello, that the skull could possibly be 3000 years old, and not more recent than 2000. That is because the prevailing theory is that the Paracas people died out by about the time of Christ, having been absorbed into the Nazca, who were the next major culture to live there, spreading out from the area that bears their name.

What is intriguing about this, is that we see, from viewing the very large skull collection at the Regional Museum in nearby Ica, that the physical presence of the elongated skulls does dwindle as the time line of the Nazca progresses. This would indicate that either the process of head binding itself died out gradually, and/or that the genetic trait of the elongated cranium faded as fewer and fewer of the Paracas people existed. The Paracas people also seem to have occupied the Nazca area prior to the arrival of the actual Nazca tribal people, and may have been the makers of the famous animal figures on the Nazca plain; the lines themselves having been made later. Amongst the most famous of the figures is one called “The Astronaut,” and it is not only human like in form, but shows signs of having a less than normal shaped head. Whether this was the result of artistic license, or a realistic portrayal is not known.

The only way to establish the actual age, and possible genetic origins of the Paracas people is through DNA analysis of the skulls themselves. Fortunately, Juan Navarro has a somewhat large collection of the elongated skulls in his possession, and just recently put them on display at his museum, due to my urging. Numbering at least 15, and collected as the result of the huaqueros leaving the skulls abandoned on the surface after looting graves, Juan has allowed me to take samples from 5 of the skulls. I was able to procure hair, including roots, a tooth, skull bone samples, and skin, and carefully documented the extractions with the use of high definition video; 10 samples in all.
However, Foerster has this to say about future plans, from an interview dated Feb 7 2014 here:

Foerster: More testing of samples of the Paracas will be conducted by two, or perhaps three independent laboratories in the US over the coming months, as well as a Carbon-14 dating and perhaps blood tests. It is also planed to analyze the elongated skull of a small mummy that was discovered in 2011 in the archives of the "Ritos Andinos"-Museum in Cusco.
If the 3,000 year date were to be doubled, it would be a nice potential hit for the Cs. Foerster co-authored a book with David Hatcher Childress about this: The Enigma of Cranial Deformation. I haven't read it yet, but when I have a chance I'll look through it and see if I can find anything else about dating.
 

Pashalis

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Shijing said:
Laura said:
Any indicators that dating might be off?
There's a bit about the dating in this article from April 18, 2011:

Four hours drive south of Lima Peru lies the Paracas Peninsula, part of which is an ecological reserve, where one can see wildlife such as sea lions, and a myriad of various sea bird species. The area is amazingly rich in seafood, and abundant fresh water exists just below the surface of the desert sands.

Therefore, it would seem to be a perfect place for people to live. Stone tools, of various forms and styles of shaping have been found in the area, and cursory analysis has established dates of as old as 8000 years. The greatest of Peruvian archaeologists, in my estimation, Julio Tello, made studies in this area in 1928 and performed excavations on the north side of the peninsula, in the central area of the large semi-circular bay there. He discovered and excavated a massive and elaborate graveyard, where each tomb contained an entire family, each one ornately wrapped in multiple layers of highly stylized, woven and coloured cotton cloth. He also found the sand filled remains of subterranean houses, which turned out to be numerous; so numerous in fact, that the village stretched out for between 1 and 2 km [...]

Tello believed that the Paracas were related to the people of the Chavin culture, who created the famous megalithic site of Chavin de Huantar, mainly based on the fact that he saw similarities in pottery designs and motifs, especially feline figures. However, to my knowledge, no elongated skulls have been found in the area where the Chavin lived, north of Lima in the Ancash district, so that clearly is not the answer as to their origins. But, since Tello was the expert and main archaeologist at Chavin, where he placed an origin date of at least 3000 years ago, he then simply applied this for the Paracas as well, and no one has dared or bothered to refute his time line until now.

The Paracas people, living by the coast, were clearly fishermen, as evidenced by netting which has been found buried in the sand, as well as ancient middens, which are heaps of sea shells. No actual and extensive carbon 14 dating has been performed on the organic matter of the archaeological sites, and this was certainly not done by Tello, as his work was performed in 1928, whereas carbon 14 dating was not established until the 1940s. Also, very little work has been done at Paracas since the time of Tello, and the subterranean houses have once again filled up with sand [...]

Mr. Juan Navarro, owner and director of the local museum, called the Paracas History Museum, has a fine collection of artefacts from all of the cultures known and believed to have lived in this area, including the Paracas, Nazca, Chincha and Inca. Amongst his displayed collection of stone implements and clay pots is an elongated skull. Upon inquiring as to its age, he stated that he is a firm believer of the time line set forth by Tello, that the skull could possibly be 3000 years old, and not more recent than 2000. That is because the prevailing theory is that the Paracas people died out by about the time of Christ, having been absorbed into the Nazca, who were the next major culture to live there, spreading out from the area that bears their name.

What is intriguing about this, is that we see, from viewing the very large skull collection at the Regional Museum in nearby Ica, that the physical presence of the elongated skulls does dwindle as the time line of the Nazca progresses. This would indicate that either the process of head binding itself died out gradually, and/or that the genetic trait of the elongated cranium faded as fewer and fewer of the Paracas people existed. The Paracas people also seem to have occupied the Nazca area prior to the arrival of the actual Nazca tribal people, and may have been the makers of the famous animal figures on the Nazca plain; the lines themselves having been made later. Amongst the most famous of the figures is one called “The Astronaut,” and it is not only human like in form, but shows signs of having a less than normal shaped head. Whether this was the result of artistic license, or a realistic portrayal is not known.

The only way to establish the actual age, and possible genetic origins of the Paracas people is through DNA analysis of the skulls themselves. Fortunately, Juan Navarro has a somewhat large collection of the elongated skulls in his possession, and just recently put them on display at his museum, due to my urging. Numbering at least 15, and collected as the result of the huaqueros leaving the skulls abandoned on the surface after looting graves, Juan has allowed me to take samples from 5 of the skulls. I was able to procure hair, including roots, a tooth, skull bone samples, and skin, and carefully documented the extractions with the use of high definition video; 10 samples in all.
However, Foerster has this to say about future plans, from an interview dated Feb 7 2014 here:

Foerster: More testing of samples of the Paracas will be conducted by two, or perhaps three independent laboratories in the US over the coming months, as well as a Carbon-14 dating and perhaps blood tests. It is also planed to analyze the elongated skull of a small mummy that was discovered in 2011 in the archives of the "Ritos Andinos"-Museum in Cusco.
If the 3,000 year date were to be doubled, it would be a nice potential hit for the Cs. Foerster co-authored a book with David Hatcher Childress about this: The Enigma of Cranial Deformation. I haven't read it yet, but when I have a chance I'll look through it and see if I can find anything else about dating.
Thanks Shijing!

So the above suggests to me (at the moment) that the actual age of those Skulls is indeed not really known as of yet...
I think it is indeed fairly save to say, that they are at least 2000 - 3000 years old, but if there were really no modern tests being done on them regarding the date, and the date of 2000 - 3000 years is really only based on this:

But, since Tello was the expert and main archaeologist at Chavin, where he placed an origin date of at least 3000 years ago, he then simply applied this for the Paracas as well, and no one has dared or bothered to refute his time line until now.
I think it would be reasonable to assume, that this date might very well be off the mark...
 

Maat

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We usually hear that the deformation of skulls was to "look like the gods". Recently I heard a totally different take on it : Bleuette Diot (a french alternative archeologist) thinks it's was specifically to NOT look like the gods and more like the old humanity before it was engineered by the "gods" to look like them. :huh:
 

Laura

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We usually hear that the deformation of skulls was to "look like the gods". Recently I heard a totally different take on it : Bleuette Diot (a french alternative archeologist) thinks it's was specifically to NOT look like the gods and more like the old humanity before it was engineered by the "gods" to look like them. :huh:
That probably won't fly because, based on all the skulls studied from ancient sites (and I mean the most ancient available) shows that no early human looked like that.

Yes, there were dolichocephalic skulls (long headed) and brachycephalic skulls (round headed), but sometimes it takes measurements and the application of a mathematical formula to even tell this difference. Further, the long-headed types were generally more gracile and with smaller jaws, while it was the round heads that had the bulky jaws and squarish eye sockets.

The Ica skulls are very far outside the classification system for early human skulls. Plus, they can't be THAT old, I don't think, with hair and such still intact. Well, they can be as old as Egyptian mummies which also have hair and preserved soft tissues, but after reading about how ancient DNA work is done, it seems to be rather tricky to get valid DNA samples from even that. It CAN be done, but it is tricky.

Of course, with the new revelations about the Denisovans, and David Reich's revelations about "ghost populations" revealed by DNA studies, finding another ancient population shouldn't be a surprise except these don't seem to be that ancient. But, that isn't so big a surprise now either after the dating of Homo Naledi.

Were they a different species, unable to interbreed with humans? Is that why they died out? If so, was that due to them having been isolated for a long time? Foerster doesn't seem to be very familiar with recent DNA work because he doesn't seem to understand how speciation could occur. They don't have to be alien to be a different species, nor do they have to be alien to be so different! He just doesn't seem to be very educated on the topics surrounding this problem.

It's just criminal, IMO, that mainstream science isn't taking an interest in this and other mysteries.

Foerster doesn't identify the tester except as a US person who "does contract work for the government". That is a little odd, I think, based on what I've read. Apparently, you have to have a pretty elaborate laboratory to do ancient DNA - clean rooms and machines and such - and he suggests nothing about that. Yes, there are commercial labs nowadays, but they are pretty expensive operations... and mentioning at least that, and the access to the technology would help his case.

There are just a lot of questions about this.
 
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Pashalis

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Foerster doesn't identify the tester except as a US person who "does contract work for the government". That is a little odd, I think, based on what I've read. Apparently, you have to have a pretty elaborate laboratory to do ancient DNA - clean rooms and machines and such - and he suggests nothing about that. Yes, there are commercial labs nowadays, but they are pretty expensive operations... and mentioning at least that, and the access to the technology would help his case.

There are just a lot of questions about this.
Yes. It also doesn't look like Foerster and Co. apply the most up to date standards in order to extract and make sense of the DNA when you look at how they did the extraction of those "strange skulls in Peru" here on video. When one reads "Neanderthal Man In Search of Lost Genomes" by Svante Pääbo you get a good sense of just how difficult it is to not contaminate ancient DNA. You basically need a very advanced lab setup and apply specific rules on how to handle the samples. Even if you can do that though, there is still a good chance that you will contaminate the samples.

So it is indeed a very tricky business and from the videos of how they extracted the DNA, even a layman can see after reading Pääboo, that how they did it, is certainly not safe from contamination at all.

I think everyone who does DNA sampling nowadays should be familiar with the approach and difficulties Pääbo mentions in his book, to even get a chance to come to more or less reliable results. I think a lot of people still are not familiar with it though and use the old methods that have been proven to be pretty unreliable.
 
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