Enforcement of VAX escalating

Candice

Jedi
There does seem to be a sharp divide between pro and anti vax viewpoints in society, and I've scarcely seen any external consideration being employed either.
Do you mean by both sides? As in both sides are not showing external consideration for the other side or only the anti-jabbers showing lack of consideration?
I think the C's said there's not a chance of anyone living outside the beast system ultimately, it's a case of "belong or starve", so in a sense I do think we ought to relax a little as a society.
Could you elaborate on “ought to relax as a society”. Are you saying that if we all comply and get jabbed that everything will calm down?

Things are tense and polarised enough as they are, and we have a real challenge now as a collective to navigate a potentially devastating future.
I agree that this discussion promotes polarization but surely there is a lot we can learn about ourselves during such a period. Especially when faced with stress we can learn valuable information about our programs.

I can also understand those who want to try to avoid potential health issues from the jabs especially in the face of a “potentially devastating future” where optimal health may be one of our biggest assets. This is why having an objective discussion about all choices is key.
 

MatiaS

Padawan Learner
I agree that this discussion promotes polarization
I think that this could also be flipped around and we could say that this discussion is in the spirit of depolarisation. The opinions that have been expressed thus far in this thread have evolved since the beginning of the thread. I think people on both sides of the spectrum have gotten valuable information to work with.

Speaking for myself, I can say that my rigid black-and-white stance has been neutralized quite a bit after having participated in this thread. I can see the gray zone more clearly, and all the different specific conditions that might prompt people to act one way or another.

That is not to say that I see myself more likely to get the jab, but my view on the topic has definitely become more broad and accommodating.

A strong motivator and "giver of hope" to me personally on this issue, and my belief in the possibility to avoid the jab, is the country where I'm living, Romania.

From the almost 4 years I've been living here, I've been able to observe and learn a lot about the mindset people have here. Granted I live in a rural area, so surely the mentality is more 'westernized' the closer you move to big cities, but here in the "outback", people are very willing to bend the rules and sneak around the Big Brother system.

One anecdotal example comes from this past weekend when my neighbors went to a quite large open-air market that is organized every Sunday. At the entrance you have to buy a ticket, then a few meters inside the gate someone else "controls" the ticket. When they approached the ticket-seller, the guard from within the gate started yelling at them and saying they can "only enter with green pass". How he knew they weren't vaccinated from a distance I can only speculate about.

Anyway, my neighbor started a small scene, telling the ticket-seller something along the lines of "I don't believe everybody in there is vaccinated". There is a substantial gypsy population of course in Romania and you can bet 90% of them are not getting any kind of jabs.

After a short back-and-forth the ticket-seller gestured to my friend to come closer and told him to go around to the back entrance and they would be let in there. When they got to the back entrance, the lady there already knew they were coming (contact to the ticket-seller via headset assumedly). When they entered, a guard asked for my friend to hold up his phone so he could "scan his qr code", and so he did; fake-scanned my friends phone, and subsequently let the whole group (4 adults and 2 kids) pass, my friend remarking "hey, I'm vaccinated for all of us", as the guard didn't ask to scan anybody else.

I've also heard of multiple stories of people going to get the jab, paying a certain amount of money at the spot to the person administering the shot, and they just squirt the concoction into the thrash can and give the certificate.

I'm sure there are other places in the world where this kind of thing is going on, here it just seems really pronounced. There are many examples I can think of where we hear stories of people doing stuff illegally and under the radar and the phrase we often hear is "it's Romania, this is how it works here".

This is helping me in my strong stance, as even if at some point in the future, shit hits the fan and nationwide mandates are imposed, I don't see much difficulty in finding a work-around, and for instance getting a fake certificate. This probably isn't as applicable to people living in let's say Germany.
 

SOTTREADER

The Living Force
Good question. Personally, I was really torn over getting the jab. Ultimately I chose to go through with it because of my home life, sharing a home with my elderly parents. There was no coercion involved, but I really was in a right struggle over the final decision, and I still wonder if I've just entered a genetic russian roulette game in doing this. Time will ultimately tell if I suffer over this decision or not.

There does seem to be a sharp divide between pro and anti vax viewpoints in society, and I've scarcely seen any external consideration being employed either. I'm instinctively a centrist in my thinking, always have been, and so always tend to look impartially at all available info and viewpoints. It's a bit of a quandry, but I think each individual person has their own situation to face, with its own idiosyncratic factors involved. I think you're right, we should be mindful of these factors informing how each of us make our choices.

And, contrary to some rather extreme theorists, I don't think I've taken the mark of the beast in having the jab. I think the C's said there's not a chance of anyone living outside the beast system ultimately, it's a case of "belong or starve", so in a sense I do think we ought to relax a little as a society. Things are tense and polarised enough as they are, and we have a real challenge now as a collective to navigate a potentially devastating future.

The less tension and internal squabbling the better, we're supposed to be sharing the load on here, not adding to the weight we carry. I made my choice, and now time will unfold and I have to live with the consequences, for good or ill. I trust in the members here that each of us will make the correct choice for our own circumstances.
Thank you for sharing @SlipNet. I could be wrong but I think it takes quite a lot of vulnerability to do so - just my opinion by the way.

I take it you've been okay since you had the jabs? I wonder, since the situation has evolved and now it's widely acknowledged that it doesn't stop spread and there are intentions to keep giving boosters, what's your thinking on more shots? No need to answer if too personal.

Asking to encourage dialogue and help understand your viewpoint as the situation evolves - I'd consider your viewpoint a worthwhile data point, at least for me, as you are someone who's exposed to the "alternative" media space.

That is not to say that I see myself more likely to get the jab, but my view on the topic has definitely become more broad and accommodating.
Same - I think its been quite a useful thread in helping to broaden my viewpoint (speaking from a personal point of view).

At least for me, there's no need (yet) to take the vaccine as it's not a life/ death, eat/starve choice yet. I'm hoping the escalation doesn't push things to that point as I'm not sure what my thinking would be. Unlike many people I'm not particularly fearful of one day meeting my "mortality" as it were. I'd just like to meet it in the right way, if there's such a thing as a choice - if this "hill" proves to have the most "meaning" to it in how I see it, then it's like "screw it" defiant to the end. It's not everyday you get the chance to "die for what you believe in", usually dying just comes say from age or some illness - so for me it's like, okay, this situation holds something to it which isn't necessarily "common place". It's funny if you play with the ideas - I see it as a road where decisions take you down certain paths and the destination might not be clear but it's an adventure - exciting and scary. I'm open to "leaving" the country, I'm open to just say "no" and see what happens after each escalation point etc. I see it as a situation where everyone is making choices in each moment that suits them and that's kind of a wonderful thing and I figure I'm also a person and I'll make my own choices too. The other day I got into a discussion with security to a venue who were checking "vaccine passports". Funny, it went well, in the end he didn't really care when pressed and I was granted entry - could easily have turned back if he said, no. It was just interesting meeting the "reality" and being like, okay, let's see what happens. On the ground, things are yet to be as militaristic as portrayed online.
 

Candice

Jedi
I think that this could also be flipped around and we could say that this discussion is in the spirit of depolarisation. The opinions that have been expressed thus far in this thread have evolved since the beginning of the thread. I think people on both sides of the spectrum have gotten valuable information to work with.
Oh I whole heartedly agree. This is why networking is so important, it pulls us out of identifying only with self and helps us to put ourselves in others shoes and thus increasing awareness through others eyes or experiences.

I should have been clearer that I meant this “discussion” not only for the forum but the general discussion that is causing polarization in the real world. This “polarization” creates internal friction that can be useful in learning more about oneself.

I too was vehemently against getting the jab. However I’ve felt no animosity to those who choose to get it. Most people I know have got it to keep their jobs. Some did it because they’re “science” followers and “believe in science”.

What is interesting for me is my view on taking the jab after reading this thread has changed. I’m feeling more open to it, less stressed by the choice, like a weight has lifted. It’s forced me to look at programs that may have been triggered. So I’m grateful to all that have networked on this topic.
 

SlipNet

Dagobah Resident
Do you mean by both sides? As in both sides are not showing external consideration for the other side or only the anti-jabbers showing lack of consideration?
Well in general I've noticed tempers getting frayed on both sides, which is understandable, but it leaves me with the impression that people are just talking past each other, not really communicating. External consideration, whilst an esoteric term, is nevertheless a common life skill too, and I see less of it in my social life these days, not that I go out much now. It's just something I've noticed more in the last two years. It's not really a problem I've noticed much on the forum though, just a little bit here and there.

Could you elaborate on “ought to relax as a society”. Are you saying that if we all comply and get jabbed that everything will calm down?

No, more that things are really getting strained in our society. Clearly the governments of the world are pushing people to their limit, and to varying degrees we're all suffering from this. For example I'm astounded by how blatantly totalitarian NZ and Australia have become, and I just didn't see it coming. So I don't think people should just chill out more, this is clearly a time to be angry about a great many things. However, this is with my caveat; don't get caught up in it totally, try and find and maintain a calm internal space, and don't get over-identified with righteous fury, could get you into trouble further down the line. "wise as serpents, gentle as doves", as the saying goes.

We've been warned that chaos is on the horizon, so that leads me to think that we ought to sober our minds and keep very cool heads as we navigate this world. As strange as it may seem in the now, but we are just living in the precursor, and the real challenges are yet to come.
 

SlipNet

Dagobah Resident
Thank you for sharing @SlipNet. I could be wrong but I think it takes quite a lot of vulnerability to do so - just my opinion by the way.

I take it you've been okay since you had the jabs? I wonder, since the situation has evolved and now it's widely acknowledged that it doesn't stop spread and there are intentions to keep giving boosters, what's your thinking on more shots? No need to answer if too personal.

Asking to encourage dialogue and help understand your viewpoint as the situation evolves - I'd consider your viewpoint a worthwhile data point, at least for me, as you are someone who's exposed to the "alternative" media space.

S'all cool mate:-), I was a bit hesitant to admit that I'd been jabbed at first, but I took care to point out my reasoning and the response on here has been fine.

I've had no reaction or side-effects since getting jabbed, and my parents and brother are fine too. This idea of twice yearly boosters is starting to take the p*ss though, and I feel for the people on here that have the accurate info, know the dangers and simply want no part of it. It's going to become harder to avoid, that much seems certain.

One thing is certain; this forum is an absolute godsend in these times, and I greatly appreciate all the info and perspectives shared by everyone on here. My position in life has changed, I got the jab, and I had and still have misgiving over that. But life is a marathon, not a sprint, and I'm trying to navigate tricky waters while playing the long game. Networking is our great asset on here, and we'll have to work together more and more in the years to come.
 

Tuulikki

Jedi Master
S'all cool mate:-), I was a bit hesitant to admit that I'd been jabbed at first, but I took care to point out my reasoning and the response on here has been fine.

I've had no reaction or side-effects since getting jabbed, and my parents and brother are fine too. This idea of twice yearly boosters is starting to take the p*ss though, and I feel for the people on here that have the accurate info, know the dangers and simply want no part of it. It's going to become harder to avoid, that much seems certain.

One thing is certain; this forum is an absolute godsend in these times, and I greatly appreciate all the info and perspectives shared by everyone on here. My position in life has changed, I got the jab, and I had and still have misgiving over that. But life is a marathon, not a sprint, and I'm trying to navigate tricky waters while playing the long game. Networking is our great asset on here, and we'll have to work together more and more in the years to come.
I think opinions and views on this forum have been changing in the past months regarding this topic In my personal opinion that is good. Things should be fluid instead of heavily black or white. My thoughts about the vaccination were originally...NEVER, EVER. But time and events soften the edges a bit. My vaccine stance has already lost me my job and although I am able to get another fairly easily, I wonder how long that will continue also. As restrictions continue to bite are we eventually to find it difficult to obtain the basics for everyday life, food, fuel, access to some kind of social life? No member on here will have been jabbed willingly. Everyone knows the score by now and if they have submitted to it then it is because it is absolutely necessary for them, perhaps regarding dependents, work, finances etc. The basic tenent here is that they understand and have knowledge of what is going on. They are not being blindly led down the garden path as so many others are. That must hold them in good stead for the future. I hope so anyway.

I am glad that you have not had any problems with the vaccination Slipnet. I agree with you that it is going to be harder to avoid in the coming months. I intend to hold out as long as I possibly can but none of us can know the future. I am hoping that events will occur which will change things for all of us (preferably in the very near future).
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Part of the changing view is due to changing data and info as much as the morphing of the arguments. Bottom line is it is still a crap shoot. What are the odds? At the end of the day it’s still Clint Eastwood with a gun to your head saying “Do you feel lucky.... Punk?.”

And how many times will it be necessary to be lucky?
 

alkhemst

Dagobah Resident
Pro-vax is a misnomer IMHO. Who believes everyone should take every substance called a vaccine no matter what? Few if any is my guess. Most people weigh risk and benefits from they’re perspective - it’s how they do that and the information they use that counts. I’d say the same for anti-vax and vax-hesitant. Unhelpful labels at best and tools for propaganda at worst.
 

SlipNet

Dagobah Resident
I just wanted to add a little to my earlier posts on this thread about my experience with the vaccine. On one occasion over Christmas I suffered momentary chest pains, it lasted about a minute. Very painful but brief. I drank a whisky and life went on as normal, I was watching a film and didn't worry about it. It's been about a week now and there's been nothing else to report.
 

gottathink

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Pro-vax is a misnomer IMHO. Who believes everyone should take every substance called a vaccine no matter what? Few if any is my guess. Most people weigh risk and benefits from they’re perspective - it’s how they do that and the information they use that counts. I’d say the same for anti-vax and vax-hesitant. Unhelpful labels at best and tools for propaganda at worst.
Although I do know of people that equate vaccination with being rational and so anything that is labelled as a vaccine they believe is a “properly” developed vaccine.

As you say there’s a big problem with labels, I think people want to be associated with a particular moral or academic ideal. As well as wanting to be seen to be associating with these. Unfortunately these ideals do not account for the nuances of reality.

Additionally many people appear to completely trust the medical establishment and if their doctor says so they do so.
Some did it because they’re “science” followers and “believe in science”.
And this: Exactly!
What is interesting for me is my view on taking the jab after reading this thread has changed. I’m feeling more open to it, less stressed by the choice, like a weight has lifted. It’s forced me to look at programs that may have been triggered. So I’m grateful to all that have networked on this topic.
That’s great, I have just caught up on the last few posts here and from what you guys are saying I can also see a noticeable shift towards less angst about forced vaccinations. We “keep calm and carry on”.
 
Top Bottom