European Union - A sinking ship

Niall

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I'm going to go against the trend in this thread and propose, in response to its title, that the EU is not a sinking ship, nor is it 'being destroyed', or anything resembling this or similar metaphors.

The 'Brexit thing' has spurred me to reconsider, over the last few years, how I see the EU, and where I 'stand' on it. I've been to both extremes. I went to a European School with other kids whose parents worked for EU institutions. To me then, the EU was as natural as trees in a forest. And who wouldn't want a forest to grow big and strong?! Later, I rebelled against it, railing against its 'democratic deficit' and its role as a 'Globalist/NWO Trojan Horse for totalitarianism', actively campaigning against ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, aka 'the EU Constitution' in both Irish referendum votes.

In the meantime, the EU has been hit with several major crises: the 2008 financial crisis, which caused a sovereign debt crisis in the eurozone; the wave of mass migration that peaked in 2015; and of course Brexit. The talk (hysteria, it turns out) of the EU 'collapsing any day now' has been droning on for at least the last decade... and yet it's still there. Not only is it still there, I'm impressed by its resilience. From where I sit, the 325-year-old UK will break up sooner than the 25-year-old EU.

I don't like the dominant culture that informs its institutions, but then, I don't particularly like the dominant culture anywhere. In practice though, 'where the rubber hits the road', behind the words and ideology and namby-pamby liberal guff, including the 'right-wing' conservative reaction to it, Europeans are broadly (and, probably, mostly) satisfied with the basic EU architecture of a 'single market'.

Europeans seem to have accepted that they share common cultural-religious heritage, and that the EU has not, contrary to predictions (incessantly repeated in the anglosphere of course), 'destroyed national identity'. However much that may fade in the long-term, the French today very much identify as French, the Irish as Irish, etc.

The rising nationalist parties in Italy, Germany, France, Spain and the Netherlands do not want to take their countries out of the eurozone, much less the EU as a whole. They too are invested in it because they are forced to acknowledge that European integration has taken on a reality of its own, and that it's too late to reverse it without seriously harming their own countries, if 'only' economically. (The Brits are pretending they don't see this, but I think they'll come around to it sooner or later.)

Given that there are 'enemies at the gates' in the form of Islamic terrorism, mass migration, stateless financial predators, corporate raiders, the rise of China, India, Russia, etc - to say nothing of Uncle Sam's outrageous meddling in European energy security... why wish for it to break up into its constituent parts when together it's better able to handle competition and threats?

There's more that can be said about all this of course, and it's not an either/or issue, but I for one am scaling down my 'ideological activation' regarding the EU's existence and what it 'should' be like.
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Given that there are 'enemies at the gates' in the form of Islamic terrorism, mass migration, stateless financial predators, corporate raiders, the rise of China, India, Russia, etc - to say nothing of Uncle Sam's outrageous meddling in European energy security... why wish for it to break up into its constituent parts when together it's better able to handle competition and threats?
Because UE heads are controlled by the US? (NATO)
Because some UE countries deliberately do an immigration politic (France, Germany)?

You seem to mixed up the ideal UE with the real one, directed by not elected people and lobby groups. I don't understand.
 

Hello H2O

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Given that there are 'enemies at the gates' in the form of Islamic terrorism, mass migration, stateless financial predators, corporate raiders,...
These 'enemies' are mostly manufactured, and require a 'united' response to be most effective for the manufacturers. So a European union or any union lends itself to this scenario. It just makes it easier for those with nefarious plans.
... why wish for it to break up into its constituent parts when together it's better able to handle competition and threats?
Do you suppose a media under the control of a few is best to fight against lies?

I think if you take psycopathy out of the equation, then this argument might hold water. JMHO.
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
If true, was trying to understand the significance of this:


Backdoor Army: No EU ‘Military’ Yet, But Armed ‘Civilian Troops’ in ‘European Uniform’

Armed civilian troops in EU uniforms?


The European Union (EU) may be expediting its plans for a centralised army with a massive expansion of the European Border and Coast Guard Agency (Frontex), according to the agency’s chief.

“We don’t have a military army, but we will have, let’s say, civilian troops wearing a European uniform. And for certain functions carrying weapons,” said Frontex executive director Fabrice Leggeri slyly, in an interview with POLITICO in Brussels.

These “civilian troops”, who “will be able to deploy to an EU member-state and exercise executive powers such as carrying out border controls”, according to POLITICO, are to be expanded from a modest 750 officials to a 10,000-strong corps — greater than the active manpower of Belgium’s land force.

While it is claimed that this new force will not be able to take control of national borders or use their weapons without the authorisation of the relevant EU member-state, the bloc has rewritten its rules to suit its purposes on the hoof before, such as when it pushed through Eurozone bailouts during the Greek crisis, or when it introduced compulsory migrant redistribution quotas over the objections of governments in Central Europe which, unlike Germany and its allies, opposed opening their borders during the 2015-16 influx from the start.

Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, whose government instituted a policy of no-tolerance for illegal immigration and rapidly rolled out physical border barriers in response to the migrant crisis in 2015, has already said that he believes the EU is seeking to expand Frontex in order “to take away from us the keys to the gate”.

“Because they were unable to persuade Hungary to let migrants in, the plan now is that they will take border protection rights away from us,” he told,

“They want no less than to send their mercenaries from Brussels to replace our Hungarians who are defending the border, and working as police and soldiers, whose homeland is important.

“Let us not be under any illusion… they will allow in migrants,” he warned.

Earlier in 2019, Orbán’s foreign minister Péter Szijjártó accused Frontex even in its current state of acting as “a travel agency” for illegal migrants in an echo of then-Vice Chancellor of Austria Heinz Christian-Strache’s assessment of the agency in 2018 as “anything but a border guard” — and, in fact, a “people-trafficking organisation

There is no macro history of this, although a micro one, or two or three.

There are two Twitter feeds (German Defence Minister and one of Orbán) within that would not copy out correctly here.
 

sToRmR1dR

The Living Force
FOTCM Member

sToRmR1dR

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
'Belarus as scapegoat: The migrant crisis as Merkel's legacy for further destabilization of EU and Russia.'

9 Nov, 2021

10 NOV, 2021

10 NOV, 2021
 

PabloAngello

Jedi Master

Translation to eng:
The EU is ready to relinquish power to the WHO and a European agency under the health organization and wants to give these bodies broad political powers to govern the world's health policy.

This was stated in a decision of the European Council made on 21 October 2021.

The resolution states that the European Council "wants the WHO to play a strong and central role in the future of global health management and supports the goal of signing an international treaty on pandemics."

---
This is scarry.
 

Korzik18

Jedi
FOTCM Member
'Belarus as scapegoat: The migrant crisis as Merkel's legacy for further destabilization of EU and Russia.'

9 Nov, 2021

10 NOV, 2021

10 NOV, 2021
Several planes with migrants wishing to return home flew to Iraq from Belarus last week. Several flights are still planned. But all the same, about 2,000 people continue to sit on the border with Poland. Now they are in the premises of the logistics center and there is no snow, rain and cold, like in tents in the forest. Every day the state and the Belarusian Red Cross Society provide them with food, water, warm clothes, blankets, and provide medical assistance. President Lukashenko visited them a few days ago. Migrants stubbornly insist that they only want to go to Germany. Many have relatives there already. Yesterday, another body of a migrant was found near the border, and in an abandoned hut there were three frostbitten migrants from Sri Lanka and one dead. All this is terrible.

Washington is using the migrant crisis to stage a conflict with Belarus, the country’s embattled leader Alexander Lukashenko has declared, in his latest tirade against the West, as the region’s border humanitarian crisis drags on.
Speaking as participant in a government meeting on Thursday, the veteran strongman alleged that the US, “with the hands of the Poles, the Baltic states and the Ukrainians,” wants to start a conflict to “create a mess somewhere around here again.”
America “will stand by and supply weapons so that we kill each other and the economy sinks. They will come back with the dollar, which they are printing now, to ‘help’ us,” the Belarusian leader claimed.
Lukashenko went on to denounce NATO’s potential role in the refugee crisis on the border between his country and the EU as nothing more than a provocation for a full-blown assault.
Speaking later from a migrant camp near the border, Lukashenko claimed that Poland was blocking a deal to allow people to be resettled in Germany, saying that “Europe will choke” unless a solution is found.
His comments come after neighboring Poland deployed thousands of soldiers, police officers and border guards to the shared frontier amid a sharp rise in migrants, predominantly from Middle Eastern nations, attempting to cross from Belarus over to the EU. The bloc accuses Minsk of arranging flights for refugees and migrants from troubled countries like Syria and Iraq and forcing these to storm the border fences as part of a “hybrid war” against Brussels.
In an interview earlier this month, Lukashenko acknowledged it was possible some of his officials were helping desperate people to cross illegally into Poland, but insisted it wasn’t worth investigating. He has previously argued that the country is no longer able to prevent the flow of migrants attempting to cross over the border due to sanctions imposed by Brussels.
After Merkel's call to Lukashenko, Europe did not take any action. But he continues to threaten Belarus and Russia with sanctions, accusing them of waging a hybrid war against the EU.
“Lukashenko has failed in his bid to undermine EU unity and solidarity. We are facing down this hybrid attack all together,” von der Leyen said. The bloc’s chief also said that it is important for Brussels to work “hand-in-hand” with NATO to respond to the crisis.
 

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altomaltes

Padawan Learner
In my opinion Europe has only two options: being an ally of Russia now ( may be is too late ) or a vasall ( or slave, same thing ) of China soon.
As Spanish, I dont't understand the concern about the Catalonian independence, we are no longer a Soberane country, so it worth nothing. i suposse European politicians are well feed by our enemies, so it is no danger there is a move toward to our compatible russian people.
If a genious from a lamp would grant me a wish. I would like to see the USA spanish occupied land ( Torrejon, Rota ) surrounded by a two kilometer srtip granted to the russian people. It would like to be funny to see the usa soldiers cross russian land to get a bar of bread or satisfy his lower instincts.
As a pay for the use of the ground, it would be a good idea to have the "Admiral Kurensov" on a fishing party with the La Linea people on waters out of the Utretch treaty what england say is theirs.
A friend of mine living in Algeciras told me the people used to throw litter on the sea when they know the winds will deliver it in El Peñon.
So the fishing party on the Air Carrier will be fun, ha, ha
 

Mari

The Living Force
FOTCM Member

Why Germany's new government coalition is a major threat to the EU

The designated German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has made his intention clear to strive for a single federal European state. That is far from bringing the member states of the European Union closer together. His plan could more likely destroy the EU.


Why Germany's new government coalition is a major threat to the EU

Source: AFP © Michael Kappeler
(Symbolic picture): Olaf Scholz during a press conference in Berlin on November 18, 2021.

A comment by Paul A. Nuttall

Olaf Scholz, who will soon take office as Federal Chancellor, will lead a "traffic light coalition" consisting of his own party, the SPD, the Greens and the Free Democrats. The top positions are distributed among the respective party leaders. The three most powerful posts go: to the SPD leader Scholz as Chancellor; to Christian Lindner as Minister of Finance; and to the co-chair of the Greens, Annalena Baerbock, who will become Foreign Minister.

The basis of the coalition agreement was specified in a 178-page document with 52,000 words. In it, the coalition members dealt with a range of topics such as the economy, migration, cannabis and climate change. One of the most interesting aspects, however, is the undisguised ambition of the new government to work towards "the development of a European federal state". Udo Bullmann, the European political negotiator of the SPD, even said: "The time is crying out" and "people are waiting for it." Hmmm. We will see.

The federalist ambitions of the new German government are more likely to cause concern in a number of countries. Including in Poland, whose government has made it clear that it is against an EU superstate. As early as June 2021, I predicted that the EU's federalist ambitions would eventually lead to a break with the Poles. And this coalition agreement only serves to bring this inevitable conflict one step closer.

In addition, a spokesman for the Hungarian Prime Minister said the German coalition document was "not a European, but a clearly Western European program" that is "extremely far from what we think about the world and societies in central Europe." He added that the new German government "is clearly aiming for the United States of Europe, but at least it is doing so openly, rather than secretly expanding the powers of the European institutions and limiting the powers of the member states."

This is a really interesting comment because, in general, the EU gets its way when it acts clandestinely. On the other hand, when their integration plans are made public, they are usually rejected. When the EU last revealed its ambitions for a federal Europe in the form of a European constitution, the idea was resolutely rejected by the French and the Dutch in referendums.

The German coalition document also wants to see steps towards a coherent EU foreign policy. It aims to abolish the principle of unanimity and replace it with qualified majority voting. Which means that the member states no longer have the right to veto foreign policy.
This could lead to countries being drawn into foreign engagements that they do not necessarily agree to.

In order to achieve its federalist goals, the new federal government will give the European Parliament more powers. It wants to do this by allowing Parliament to initiate legislation, which is currently the sole right of the European Commission. This lack of legislative power has led many to dismiss the European Parliament as little more than a "glorified chatterbox". The federal government's plan to give elected MPs more power may be a step towards more democratic accountability, but it could ultimately prove counterproductive.

The European Parliament is the most federal of all the EU institutions, and it is also by far the most extreme. In fact, the European Commission often slows down some of Parliament's excesses, which is why interinstitutional conflicts are not uncommon. Take, for example, the most recent case in which Parliament is suing the Commission for failing to sanction Poland and Hungary quickly enough after they refused to obey the EU's dictates.

If it were up to MPs, the climate targets would be even more extreme, the EU would already have a standing army, it would interfere in conflicts around the world and full integration would be accelerated. In addition, countries that deviate from the objectives of the project would be subject to even tougher sanctions. No wonder that supra-federalist MEPs like former Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt are cheering the new German government to the utmost.

And what about the French? Scholz has already indicated that his first foreign visit as Chancellor will lead to Paris. But I am not convinced that he will find a colleague there who will support his striving for a "European federal state". Surveys show that the French public is becoming more and more skeptical of Brussels, which is why the country's presidential candidates are Eurosceptic. Macron, for example, has vetoed EU enlargement, and even Michel Barnier, the EU's former Brexit negotiator, speaks of a withdrawal of power from Brussels.

I really believe that the federal train has left. These ideas were in vogue in the first decade of the century, but not so much now. To prove that the citizens of Brussels are getting tired of meddling, just look at how Eurosceptic parties have grown across the continent over the past 20 years.

If the federal government keeps its word and aggressively pursues the goal of a super-EU state, there will be massive tensions between the members. In the longer term, this could even lead to some countries withdrawing completely from the Union and going their own way.


(translated with Google)
 

Juba

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In my opinion Europe has only two options: being an ally of Russia now ( may be is too late ) or a vasall ( or slave, same thing ) of China soon.
IMO, EU is already vasal of Murica via NATO and its corporate management, banking psychopaths like BIS or organizations like MMF, WHO, UN, etc.

Eurasian peace in real sense will never, ever be allowed, same with any kind of alliance with Russia. This is the reason we have numerous Trans-Atlantic initiatives, because US can only "work" with "family and friends" via Divide et Impera rule. In other words, strong and unified EU is not in the best interest of Murica.

Of course, EU got its own share of scary organizations and "leaders" to add some spice to the toxic mixture.
 

altomaltes

Padawan Learner
IMO, EU is already vasal of Murica via NATO and its corporate management, banking psychopaths like BIS or organizations like MMF, WHO, UN, etc.

Eurasian peace in real sense will never, ever be allowed, same with any kind of alliance with Russia. This is the reason we have numerous Trans-Atlantic initiatives, because US can only "work" with "family and friends" via Divide et Impera rule. In other words, strong and unified EU is not in the best interest of Murica.

Of course, EU got its own share of scary organizations and "leaders" to add some spice to the toxic mixture.
I agree. My english is no good enough. Better to say: from a vasall of a sinking USA to a vasall of a scary China
 
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