Failures

j0da

Jedi Council Member
Elan Golomb said:
A life devoid of motivation.

Nick's waking life also has the quality of a dream. He is somewhat detached from reality. Often he does not work but lies in bed watching TV, getting up only to go into the kitchen to make a pot of spaghetti, which is the eaten with the requisite quarter stick of butter. Nick rarely eats anything else. He is overweight.

Nick turns away from commonplace necessities, laughs off monetary problems, and borrows money from his friends He often forgets to return the money but is so generous with his time and energy that his friends let his debts slide. Nick postpones and delays all decisions.

He is procrastinating his way through life. He has no sexual or love relationship and has not had either for a long time. A relationship would take too much effort. Too much would be expected of him.

He leads a life devoid of options. He can see things happening only one way. There are overtones of fatalism and defeat. As long as Nick can lie snugged in his bed, he is safe. He has the rosy cheeks and wide-open eyes of an infant, one without a care in the world. Nick has never grown up, although he is aproaching forty. Adulthood could be too dangerous. He is irresponsible child who has let the bills accumulate and binges on ice cream and spaghetti drenched in butter. Fortunately, he is talented architect and when work comes to him - he never looks for it - he will do a fine job. He is not a self-starter, but once the engine is turned on, he can work. He learned to be a compulsive and meticulous worker from his father, who demanded that he give his all. First he repaired his father's boat and car and the began to think about design.

But Nick derives no pleasure from his work nor from life itself. Architecture is what he is doing until he figures what he "wnats to do" with his life. Other people might be overjoyed to have such a skill, but Nick is fully capable of wasting it. He says that talent is not compulsion. "Why should I be compelled to do something that I don't enjoy because I'm good at it?" Nick's life indicates that he is not commited to anything.

The only thing that Nick respects is friendship. He is a true friend to other people, although not to himself. He will paint his friends' apartments, schlepp their furniture, even offer free architectural advice since "it's not worth anything anyway." He also listens freely to problems and offers sound advice. He gives away much of his time and energy, and when he works he undercharges. He gives little to himself in the way of pleasure, except food. He stymies all his own wishes. If anything interesting is happening in the world outside, something that appeals to his friends, he generally walks away from it.

Nick has always walked out on life. This started in kindergarden when he strolled away from class because "it didn't inrerest me". Years later, he walked out of his architecture class in the middle of his final year, thereby managing not to get a degree. An architect can function without degree. People learn of Nick's ability and call on him to work for them. But being without a degree or license has left him handicapped, since others have to sign his work. He is eligible for the licensing exam since architecture is a field where experience can be substituted for classwork. But Nick does not take the exam. He rationalizes self-castration by saying "The exam and degree are not important" and "I don't know what I want to do" and "I don't care." His most characteristic comment is, "I think I'll stay put." This is given in response to any suggestion that he shift gears, whether to have fun, expand his talent, meet new people, or leave the shelter of his home.

(...)

One irony of Nick's situation is that he acquired so many of his father's narcissistic traits. Nick's mixture of attitudes is found in many children of narcissists. He can be submissive, rebellious, or controlling. He fluctates between his parents' roles: his submissive and victimized mother, his critical and domineering father. These roles coexist with his compassion for people. Neither parent role is acceptable. He victimizes himself by supressing all activity. He is a crushing tyrant who will not allow his life to progress, cannot have a lover or a wife, cannot enjoy his work, will not seek out adventure. He is unable to shed his baby fat and wallowas in self-imposed misery."

source: "Trapped in the mirror" Elan Golomb, Ph.D
Okay, so how do I begin... Above excerpt pretty sums me up. Me and my life. I've read the book over a month ago, but still remember the shock of seeing myself in the mirror of Golomb's book. I let it sink, meanwhile trying "to pull myself up by my own boot straps", in which endeavour I have failed inevitably.

I've had this peculiar "method" to overcome my own inertia, which can be described as "saving myslef by emergency mode". Usually, I was aware that nothing short of imminent danger was capable to propel me into action - be it earning money, dealing with formalities of everyday life, whatever. This method seemed to carry me over many storms, but only when I took a really good look at my situation I concluded I am not living life at all. This is an existence of a slug, not of a human being. Taking my "performance" under consideration one may suppose I won't be seeing any "4D action" in a long long time (and god knows I've had enough of these silly combustion engines and solid walls I cannot walk through).

Every time I saw Laura's signature - "When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight it concentrates his mind wonderfully. Samuel Johnson" - I was baffled. On one hand, it sounded so true, on the other hand - it didn't seem to apply to me. Gosh, I wanted to say this for a long time, but only now it seemed appropriate to mention it.

Funny thing this forum rank is - "j0da, Jedi General". It fooled me long enough. I've turned thirty few days ago and had some time to recapitulate what I have achieved so far. True, I made some progress, I've read some books, I've understood few things, I've even managed to become somewhat smart, but in the end - glibness isn't going to take me any further. My presence here consisted of so much talking, but not much doing.

I tried to do, but I have failed. There was this initiative to create ponerology video, and everyone did his part. I haven't. I was deluding myself that "next day", "tomorrow", "this weekend" I would sit, do my job and finally "enjoy warm acclaim of my fellow forumites for I DID something for the group". But it just doesn't happen. I am ashamed of it. It took a lot of..I don't know..stubbornness..to come here, read, even post from time to time, knowing deep inside that I have failed in doing what I declared I would do. I just didn't feel I deserved being a forum member anymore, but tried to "hang on one minute longer" before delving into oblivion and running far away from here.

Initially I thought about this post as a starting point for discussion on our failures in professional lives, prompted by recent SAO's thread, but couldn't make it without telling what's on my chest first. Sheeesh, well, maybe it still is a good place to have an exchange on our failures, but I cannot help asking personal question - what now??
 
Hello j0da.

First of all, I'd like to say thank you and WELL DONE for sharing. Maybe typing this post and submitting it was like a good way of telling yourself these things "officially", and not just everyone else. You WERE doing something by hitting SUBMIT, you are looking at the truth about yourself instead of lies.

"The truth hurts", many people say this all the time, I think because it is very true. And here we come to other points; association with a problem, being critical of ourselves, THE DREADED NEGATIVE INTROJECT!!!!

But we could again look at another point, in a Gurdjieffian style. What is it that we dislike?? The true 'I'? Our real ESSENCE? Surely not! Because we are very far from this way of BEing. Might we suggest then, it is our personality? That is, all that we carry with us that we didn't come here with, everything we have been made to believe about ourselves, all our programs, our selfishness, our narcissism, ponerisation.

And then we are taught that these ways of being are bad, and we think "gosh, that must mean I'M REALLY bad". And then more programs kick in; guilt, self loathing......

And so this gives us our reason for impartiality, for forgiving ourselves the things we do and the ways we act that make our skin crawl if we are able to not dissociate from them for 30 seconds. Because by shining that new light upon this artificial darkness, we can make our traits visible in an objective, impartial and non-critical light.

It is seeing the horror of the world that has motivated so many to find a way out, and it is by seeing the horror of the person we have been programmed to become, that has made so many try to change.

Hope this helps.

and again, you've done well to see the truth about your machine, and then to share it with everyone else.
 
hi joda,

it`s getting a bit late here, so only a short post. I`m quite impressed by debunking yourself in such way!
While I don`t see myself reflected in the book excerpt such as you seem to do, some aspects I do share though.
I also haven`t arrived yet in this world. I`m a freelancer illustrator, but because I`m standing in my own way,
I still have to work in a restauration shop as well to earn my living. Approaching middle age fast here I could long
have my own website now. Instead I`m doing artistically unsatisfying illustration jobs, have a tendency not to get
out of bed in the (later) morning and am simply too phlegmatic to get out much, socializing. I can spent a whole
weekend alone at home reading, surfing the web, watching the clouds. My best friend replys on my past complaints,
that I hardly ever meet new people (not to speak of a relationship), that I never accompany her to go dancing in the
clubs or do other socializing. Instead of rereading the more important stuff here, I tend to hang around the forum
reading and not feeling I could share something useful. (well, at least the redpillbooks arrived today!). I have a personal
artistic project planned but haven`t done much about it other than doing research . Because it`s a big project I`m also
afraid, my nice little idea will die like a very sensitive plant beneath my hands. I also have discovered some other
"problematic" behaviour in me, some of them being very difficult to change. It`s a great idea to have a thread talking
about personal failures. The act of putting these thoughts down into words inspires a renewed self observance in me
and hopefully to you and others.
 
j0da said:
I tried to do, but I have failed. There was this initiative to create ponerology video, and everyone did his part. I haven't. I was deluding myself that "next day", "tomorrow", "this weekend" I would sit, do my job and finally "enjoy warm acclaim of my fellow forumites for I DID something for the group". But it just doesn't happen. I am ashamed of it.
Failed? Ashamed? You can only "fail" at anything and be ashamed of it if you are apt to criticise yourself unfairly. For someone who was not taught to do this, "failure" would be defined as trying to do something and coming up against a block of some sort and realising that it was the wrong direction to go in, that something else needed their attention first. It would be a lesson learned. Notice that I said "would", since I don't know anyone who does not criticise themselves unfairly in this way.

j0da said:
It took a lot of..I don't know..stubbornness..to come here, read, even post from time to time, knowing deep inside that I have failed in doing what I declared I would do. I just didn't feel I deserved being a forum member anymore, but tried to "hang on one minute longer" before delving into oblivion and running far away from here.
As you probably know, this is the "negative introject" talking - the voice of the critical and narcissistic parent or caregiver when we were young. As an adult, you (and the rest of us) continue the work of this critical parent ourselves as we go about the job of desperately seeking love in all the wrong places.

j0da said:
I cannot help asking personal question - what now??
For a start; have you read any more books on childhood trauma and narcissism?

The narcissistic family

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Narcissistic-Family-Diagnosis-Treatment/dp/0787908703/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196105935&sr=8-1

Children of Trauma

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Children-Trauma-Rediscovering-Your-Discarded/dp/1558740147/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196107968&sr=8-1

Drama of the gifted child

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Drama-Gifted-Child-Search-True/dp/0465016901/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196106779&sr=1-7

Just remember, you are not alone, not by any stretch of the imagination, not in this group nor in the world at large. The only difference is that in the world at large no one knows that they are wounded, here we do.

Joe
 
If we are coming clean, I have been working on my PhD thesis for the last seven years and, truth be told it is no where near being finished. We I discuss it with others I say "Yes, It's coming along, I'm writing it up now, a few more months" and can give very convincing reasons for its non-completion. In the time that I have been "working" on my thesis (I use the term loosely as I have spent much time just procastinating), I have gotten married and had two children (4 year old girl and 20 month old boy). For this reason I switched to part time and took last year off when my son was born. Now this sounds like a very good reason (on the surface) for my studies taking so long but there really is more to it than that. I am afraid of writing my theories, afraid of committing my ideas to paper. I can research until the cows come home and have done lots and lots of reading, but very little in the way of writing. Like Joda I function on adrenaline and do things that have to be done at the last minute and so I have managed to convince others that I am doing ok. But I have been thinking lately what have "I" done, life has just happened to me. I don't know whether I have ever really have to stand on my own two feet and prove myself or even do anything for myself. I too am approaching thirty and am wondering am I doing with my life...
 
Joe said:
j0da said:
It took a lot of..I don't know..stubbornness..to come here, read, even post from time to time, knowing deep inside that I have failed in doing what I declared I would do. I just didn't feel I deserved being a forum member anymore, but tried to "hang on one minute longer" before delving into oblivion and running far away from here.
As you probably know, this is the "negative introject" talking - the voice of the critical and narcissistic parent or caregiver when we were young. As an adult, you (and the rest of us) continue the work of this critical parent ourselves as we go about the job of desperately seeking love in all the wrong places.
Hi j0da,

I agree with Joe above. The voice that you were hearing is the "negative introject" or the predator. We can recognize it.

Have you get a chance to see this thread:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6989

In above thread, nf3 has revealed a most chilling part of his post:
nf3 said:
But the truth of the matter is that, until we've created and fused our magnetic center, ALL of our thoughts and feelings are suspect because they are all the result of faulty wiring in our brains. Here in 3D STS it is almost never a matter of "this is me and that is the predator and I can choose to ignore the predator." In the beginning everything is the predator The underlying moods that led to the self-defeating thoughts, any feelings in response to those thoughts, all of it the work of faulty wiring in the brain.
As you know, with every resources here and the readings we absorb, we can become more conscious of our thoughts and our feelings as we work on ourselves. And, we would choose to act or not to act on our feelings or thoughts every moment of our lives.

It seems to me that your predator is the one that wanted you to 'run away' and live in the illusions. It is important to remember that a lack of feedback from the forum members would solidifies your illusions.

I do echo with what Joe has said. You are not alone.
 
j0da, I share a lot of this with you. In your self observation I'm sure you see how "we" are not in control of our own ship, and it looks to me that you are making the same mistake that almost everyone makes. We get a glimpse of our machine and we are quick to judge, quick to subjectively bestow punishments and make proclamations of "deserving" and "not deserving" etc. We create these illusions and take the role of judge, jury, executioner, and the death row victim all at once. I guess one thing you should ask is - if the universe (read: God) does not judge you, what right do YOU (or part of you) have to do this?

It is what it is, you are what you are, you are not "bad" or "good", you neither deserve nor do not deserve anything. There is no need for rewards nor punishments - it is all subjective and it is all nonsense. The universe does not work like that, it's not about rewarding and punishing anything or anyone. It's about lessons, and it is up to you how you learn those lessons. And lessons is about objectivity. Judgments are by definition subjective things. I think the only thing the universe wants us to learn is to stop judging, or in other words, to see reality and ourselves as it is, and to not pretend we are God and can judge anyone or anything, including ourselves (even God doesn't!)

So you cannot possibly fail - you do what you do because that's what you are. A car drives down the road because that's what it does, just because it does not suddenly fly in the air doesn't mean it "failed" to fly. So what if it had the intention to fly? It just didn't fly, and for a reason! A car doesn't deserve to be punished because it didn't fly. That's silly. It also does not deserve to be rewarded for doing what it does. It just does what it does! The C's often say - we will do what we will do.

It's a work in progress. It's not over until it's over. Just remember that - it's not "the end" until it is "the end". You are already prejudging your 4d candidacy, something you really have no way of knowing, so that's another clue that you are way over your head the minute you start making such judgments. The same goes for the rest of them. And while it sucks to admit that this IS what you are, it does not validate subjectively judging yourself, this only messes up your ability to progress, even if you are self observing. This is what Gurdjieff had to say on the subject:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/ssupplement3.htm said:
You will see that in life you get back exactly what you put in. Your life is the mirror of what you are, it is your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without ever feeling indebted. Your attitude towards the world and towards life is the attitude of one who has the right to demand and take. Of one who doesn't need to pay or gain. You believe that all things are due to you, only because it's you! All your blindness is there. It doesn't catch your attention. It is however what, in you, separates a world from another.

You have no measure to measure yourself up. You live only between 'I like it' and 'I don't like it'. Which means that you have appreciation only for yourself. You do not allow for anything above you - theoretically or logically maybe, but not in reality. This is why you are demanding and keep on thinking that everything should be cheap, and you can afford to pay for anything you want. You don't recognize anything above yourself, or outside yourself or inside yourself. This is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live only to satisfy your whims.

Yes, your 'self appreciation' makes you blind! It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. One has to be able to pass this obstacle, this threshold, before one can go further. It is the test that separates the 'chaff' from the 'wheat' in people. No matter how intelligent, how endowed, how brilliant a man is, if he doesn't change his opinion about himself, he will be lost for inner development, for the work based on self-knowledge, for a real evolution. He will stay as he is all his life. The first demand, the first condition, the first test for he who wants to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He cannot just imagine, or simply believe or think, but actually *see* things in himself that he did not see before, really see them. Never will his opinion about himself change as long as he will not see inside himself. And in order to see, he has to learn to see: it is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

Before anything else, he has to know what to look for. Once he knows it, he has to make efforts, focus his attention, look constantly, with tenacity. By maintaining his attention on it, by not forgetting about looking, one day he may see. If he sees once, he can see a second time, and if this is repeated he cannot ignore seeing. This is the state to look for in our observation; it is from this that the true desire, the desire to evolve, will be born; from cold we're becoming hot, vibrating; we will be deeply touched by our reality.

Today we have only the illusion of what we are. We overestimate ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. To respect myself, I have to have recognized in me a part which is higher than the other parts, and to which I show respect by the attitude I have towards it. In this way I will respect myself. And my relationships with others will be ruled by the same respect.

We have to understand that all other measuring units, talent, erudition, culture, genius, are changing units, units of detail. The only true measure, never changing, objective, the only real one, it is the measure of inner vision. 'I' see - 'I' see myself - and you have measured. With a higher, real part, you have measured a lower one, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the respective roles of each part, will bring you to self-respect. But you will see it is not easy. And it is not a bargain. One has to pay a lot. For the bad payers, the lazy, the losers, no chance. One must pay, pay a lot, pay immediately and pay in advance. Pay from oneself. With sincere efforts, wholeheartedly, without expectations.

The more you will be willing to pay without reticence, without cheating, without falsity, the more you will receive. And from then on, you will meet your true nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesty it goes to in order to avoid paying cash. Because you have to pay with all the gratuitous theories, all the deeply rooted convictions, all the prejudice, all conventions, all 'I like it' and 'I don't like it'. Without bargaining, honestly, not just make believe. Trying to see while using fake money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you think you are, that you overestimate yourself, therefore that you lie to yourself. That you lie to yourself always, every moment, all day long, your whole life. That the lie rules you to the extent that you cannot control it anymore. You are its victim. You lie everywhere. Your relationships with others, lies. The education you' re giving, your petty conventions, lies. our learning, lies. Your theories, your art, lies. Your social life, your family life, all lies. And what you think of yourself, lies too.

But you don't stop from what you're doing or from what you're saying, because you believe in you. You have to stop inside and observe. Observe without prejudice. While accepting for a time this idea of lies. And if you observe in this manner, paying of yourself, without self-pity, by giving all your false riches for one moment of reality, maybe someday you'll see all of a sudden something you have never saw in you before. You will see you are someone else from what you thought you are. You will see that you are two. One that is not, but takes the place and play the other's role. And the one that is, but so weak, so inconsistent, that just brought forth it disappears immediately. It cannot stand the lies. The smallest lie kills it. It doesn't fight, it does not resist, it is vanquished in advance.

Learn to look until you have observed the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the impostor in you. When you will see your two natures, that day, in you, the truth will be born. [Intro to a meeting from September, 1941: Premiere Initiation, par G.I. Gurdjieff Question de Gurdjieff (no 50) ed. Albin Michel, 1989, p.34-35]
j0da, I too have found myself falling into the trap G describes above - I have intellectually groked many of the concepts presented on this website, and often come away with an illusion that this all that needs to be done, to just "get it intellectually". But to re-iterate G above:
No matter how intelligent, how endowed, how brilliant a man is, if he doesn't change his opinion about himself, he will be lost for inner development, for the work based on self-knowledge, for a real evolution.
So he warns us to self-observe but to *not* judge, this is something that everyone wants to do mechanically as soon as they see a glimpse of themselves as they really are. Don't get into the trap of "Oh I've been on this forum and have been familiar with this material for so long now, of course I'm doing the Work!" (which is what it sounds like from what you described about your Jedi General rank). It's OK if you did not do nearly as much Work as you thought you did, it really is - this is true for me too. I am no stranger to the concepts, and neither are you. You have studied the theory, you have read the material, but this is not doing the Work, and it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that it is.

I also procrastinate, and I also do a lot of the things you do. I have been on casschat, and I've been on this forum since its conception, and I have the rank of "The Living Force" (Oooh! Aaaah!). I have also helped out with the SOTT page (though have seriously been neglecting it lately), and I have learned a tonload ever since discovering this site. But honestly, none of this is the Work - it all can very much help, but it is not yet the Work. As G said, your life is a reflection of who you are. It is painful, but look at it, acknowledge where you are and where you are NOT. Acknowledge who you are and who you are NOT. Don't assume where you *should* be! There is no such thing.

If it helps you, you can ask Atreides to change your forum rank if it feeds your illusion to help you snap out of it.

Bottom line, it is never too late until it is too late. It is never over until it is over. It is not the end until it is the end. This is simply not our call to make, and it is highly ignorant to make such a call. This doesn't stop us from doing it all the time.

So you ask - what now? As the C's would say, it is up to you. And it really really is - it always is, and as long as you have breath in your lungs, there is still time to learn. And as you think about it, while you have as much time as you desire because it is your life, your existence - ask yourself - if not now, when? Ask it without prejudice, and do what you feel needs to be done, without any judgment towards yourself or pressure. All is lessons.
 
Joe said:
Failed? Ashamed? You can only "fail" at anything and be ashamed of it if you are apt to criticise yourself unfairly. For someone who was not taught to do this, "failure" would be defined as trying to do something and coming up against a block of some sort and realising that it was the wrong direction to go in, that something else needed their attention first. It would be a lesson learned.
And that would be an example of limitless thinking. If there is no 'time' - how can there be failure? In this rather ridiculous world, failure is almost always tied to time - but, there is no 'time'. It seems to rather be a point of understanding viscerally that 'all there is is lessons' - and while 'learning is fun' - lessons are often initially unpleasant - and can, from a limited, 'negative introject' sort of way, feel like failure.

But - it can't be failure because all we've really done is figured out - beyond question - one way NOT to do it!

Joe said:
Notice that I said "would", since I don't know anyone who does not criticise themselves unfairly in this way.
Yep - that's why we're learning. Honestly, if I allowed myself to see everything I've ever done that slowed me down or diverted me or kept me sleeping as a failure - I'd have given up years ago. The truth is that even the things I've done that make me cringe when I recall them helped me learn - if learning is the point, and nothing else - then where is the failure?

I think Ark's quote applies here as well - it's in my signature...
 
j0da said:
I tried to do, but I have failed
Hello Joda,

It's funny how I have the impression of reading my own thoughts, and seeing at the same time that's it's just the negative introject speaking.

One thing I have come to realize is that I always liked the taste of failure and self-depreciation, it's more comfortable than anything else. One of the first step was for me, to understand this.
But that well known place has become more and more uncomfortable with the help of the forum and I think it is normal to go back from time to time to the thing you know the most about osit.
It's probably tainting the whole picture in black for the moment, but don't forget that it's going to fade away as well, without these relapses you would not be able to grow a soul ;)

Another thing that comes to mind is, stop comparing yourself to others as well, you do what you can do with what you have now, keep observing yourself, to gather the energy to break free from your patterns.
God knows I always compare what I am to what I could be or others who seems to be so much intelligent or creative than I am for example. It's draining so much of you away.

Keep it up, you gave us a great gift.
 
Really enlightening thread here! My last post sure reflects my ignorance.
I really should continue working my way through the recommended book lists to get a deeper understanding
before further posting. After reading the first third of the recommended thread dealing with negative introjects
a knot startet forming in my brain. No wonder I once frustratingly threw a Gurdjeff book into a corner.
This whole subject is definitely hugely complex and not easy to theoretically understand (not to even speak of
adequately applying the learned knowlege). I am getting bits and pieces here and there and actually think I`m
moving in the right direction in spite of my inadequate grasp of the debated subjects.

Laura and many forumites here do a great job explaining and interpreting and demystifying mystical/occult writings.
The thing is, it`s still quite difficult. I`m getting an increasingly nagging non negative interject voice telling me in the
labyrinth of my mind that these subjects might be explained in a simpler way. In a visual way. Talking of machines,
suppose you had to built some unidentified technical device; what would you prefer: A written instruction sheet
(maybe badly translated by google from japanese) or: a manual which contains step by step pictures which visually
show you how to do it. I`m sure some of you out there would prefer the written manual (at least if the translation
is right). I`m also sure types like me would choose the visualizations. (Maybe it has to do with left/right brain
orientations). Me I`m a right brainer, therefore gimme pics!

I might open a new thread to explore the possibilties of creating a Graphic Manual For Self Exploration.

Oh and by the way, this Living Force thing is just a technical little joke!
 
That's quite a response, from all of you, dear forumites and I very much appreciate it. You have given me much needed support in a really dark hour - my heart felt warm for a moment and that is a rare experience in my life. There is much food for thought in these comments, so it will take some time to digest them all.

Meanwhile..I think I can share my initial rections to your answers and see where it goes.

It's really strange to write these words now, since I'm amazed how different person I am now from that "other me", who wrote the first post. For the first time I'm witnessing it in such clarity! In the same time I begin to see how much I have to learn about human psychology, and that even with all the books under one's belt one needs the mirror of the group, for human psyche is so complex that it is very easy to get lost in all those states/emotions/programs/mechanisms, etc.

What boggles my mind is how strange emotions are to me. This is my "terra incognita", completely. If there is j0da dissociating from one moment to another thus BEING DIFFERENT PERSONS - that's a one thing, but add to that j0da WHO CAN FEEL DIFFERENT EMOTIONS...Wow, that's a huge maze and I'm little boy with a candle standing at the entrance. I think I'd better really take my time and stop trying to leap couple of steps at once from now on :O

When I was reading your replies I felt like crying. I really wanted to cry, only to find out that I couldn't. If I have been repressing emotions almost all my life, I guess it will take really hard work to break this cage on non-feeling. However, even when I couldn't cry I felt for a brief moment that special warmth, which one can experience when one sees he is understood and feels he is loved. So...I consider it the greatest gift I could have been given for my 30th birthday. Again, all of you have my greatest gratitude.

All the time, while I write these words I hear a thought in my head - "Oh, now you are getting embarassingly mushy..enough of this "soft belly show"". That's the thought, the voice I'm beginning to recognize as one which was with me for a veeery long time. Every second I experience it's constant pressure, it's cold nagging to shut up and be done with all this "unmanly thing". I guess it my old fella NEGATIVE INTROJECT in one of his many incarnations.

There's so much to discover...but now it's time to for some replies

Thomas C said:
And so this gives us our reason for impartiality, for forgiving ourselves the things we do and the ways we act that make our skin crawl if we are able to not dissociate from them for 30 seconds.
I'll try to keep it in my mind. If I am able not to dissociate instantly or self criticize just for a brief moment I think I will be able to keep at least some impartiality, which is another thing I'll have to learn gradually. Brisk, cold judgement is what has to be unlearned...

nemo said:
I`m a freelancer illustrator, but because I`m standing in my own way,
I still have to work in a restauration shop as well to earn my living. Approaching middle age fast here I could long
have my own website now.
Nemo, I'm freelancer illustrator too. I left nine-to-five job over three years ago, which had it's positive and negative consequences, but ultimately my lack of discipline or motivation have brought my life to almost complete halt. No work = no food - I learned this simple truth the hard way. There were moments when I tried going back to regular job, but with firm decision to keep doing what I'm good at has left me with few options (all of them bad) in my area. So, like Golomb's client Nick - "I stayed put". There's light at the end of the tunnel however..

Joe said:
Failed? Ashamed? You can only "fail" at anything and be ashamed of it if you are apt to criticise yourself unfairly. For someone who was not taught to do this, "failure" would be defined as trying to do something and coming up against a block of some sort and realising that it was the wrong direction to go in, that something else needed their attention first. It would be a lesson learned. Notice that I said "would", since I don't know anyone who does not criticise themselves unfairly in this way.
Boy, this DID straighten me out!

Joe said:
For a start; have you read any more books on childhood trauma and narcissism?
I'm going through "The narcissistic family" right now, Joe. These two other books you mentioned - I guess they have just become my current "highest priority" orders from Amazon.

anart said:
I think Ark's quote applies here as well - it's in my signature...
Funny thing is..I remember posting this exact same quote to others, all the while not applying it to myself...

Tigersoap said:
It's probably tainting the whole picture in black for the moment, but don't forget that it's going to fade away as well, without these relapses you would not be able to grow a soul
So very true, Tigersoap. I emerged from that dark pit and realised not all is bleak in my life. Not so bleak at all.

Zadius Sky said:
It is important to remember that a lack of feedback from the forum members would solidified your illusions.
Indeed, ZS. I think my presence on the forum lately was somewhat...artificial, where I was posting stuff, but not really sharing relevant matters. It seems I need time and shocks to grok what networking is really about.

ScioAgapeOmnis said:
It is what it is, you are what you are, you are not "bad" or "good", you neither deserve nor do not deserve anything. There is no need for rewards nor punishments - it is all subjective and it is all nonsense.
That was one hell of a ZEN comment, my friend :D I really like it!

Jeeez.... you know what people...you are all great and I love you all. Apart from this.. I will say no more now, but pour myself some polish vodka and maybe shed some tears of relief and happiness.

See you around!
 
WOW! - great stuff.

For me I have been working on one main topic which is (attempting to) breaking away from old patterns of behaviors.
For example, I have found that during remedial tasks or maybe while driving my mind drifts off into song or maybe whistling (I'm a damn good whistler - so say friends etc...) When I catch myself, I say...now let's try and use this brain for something better. I usually try to bring forward another "I" that requires work. It's a constant struggle to change the simplest behaviors.

I have also been trying to manage my anger. Around two or three weeks ago I was making a very directed attempt at maintaining an even keel, trying to not get too excited about good events and to not get to agitated at frustrating events. I did okay with the good events, but the frustrating events kicked my arse. By the end of the day I was unable to contain my frustration.

My relief valve can only take so much before I have some type of outburst. And I realized that this is the behavior that I have grown into, this is how I cope with my frustration - I let it out, usually right after a frustrating event. For me, just recognizing this is a good step in the direction of changing myself - at least this one of my many I's.

(I do IT type support work and my anticipation of having a logical outcome to a problem gets me nearly every time, but I am making progress).
 
Joda said:
Nemo, I'm freelancer illustrator too. I left nine-to-five job over three years ago, which had it's positive and negative consequences, but ultimately my lack of discipline or motivation have brought my life to almost complete halt. No work = no food - I learned this simple truth the hard way.
Joda and Nemo , I more or less follow the same course, although I think I have lately gathered a few tips (and some hard learning experiences as well) that may help to get you out of this situation or at least give a push in the right direction in terms of promotion, where to go for clients (which I now need to put into pro-active practice very fast as well :/)
Do you want me to start a new thread about this subject ? Let me know.
It touches many other topic in relation to the Work as well imho.
 
Tigersoap said:
Do you want me to start a new thread about this subject ? Let me know. It touches many other topic in relation to the Work as well imho.
Good idea! I'll be glad to share my experiences so far and few lessons as well ;)
 
Hey j0da, just wanted to say thanks for pourin yer soul out on the forum. A lot of what was said definitely applies to my situation, so it was useful to read the whole bit from start to finish.

thanks all.
 
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