FAQ re Mission & Conspiracy

R

RuSTO

Guest
I have 3 FAQ if I may:

1)Does SOTT have a concise 'Mission Statement' ?

2)In the view of SOTT, what is the 'Ultimate Conspiracy'?

3)How would SOTT describe its Mission & the exposition of Conspiracy
in relation to Gurdjieffs overview of History(Exoteric, Mesoteric, Esoteric)?

Thanx
 

henry

The Living Force
Hi RuSTO,

You find a sortof faq here:

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signsguide.htm

It might answer question 1.

For the second, briefly, it would be that we are coming to the close of a great cycle as which point it is harvest time. The arrival of the Wave, or our meeting up with it, will lead to a macro-cosmic leap in which new worlds will be born based upon the polarisation of the individuals alive at the time. The ultimate conspiracy, if this hypothesis is correct -- and, remember, it is only a hypothesis -- is keeping us in ignorance about our hyperdimensional reality, the fact that we are not at the top of the food chain, as it were, and that our "shepherds" are leading us towards an entropic future.

3. Gurdjieff said that with 200 people, you could change the world. But those 200 people, and, admittedly, we don't know if the figure is 200, 2000, or 200,000,000, must be colinear, that is, all heading in the same direction. This is where we see the link to Gurdjieff's (and the esoteric Tradition of the Orthodox Church) Exoteric, Mesoteric, and Esoteric groups. To have the numbers of people necessary for a positive polarisation at the moment of the macro-cosmic leap, these groups must exist.

Our various forums provide a means for people to progress through the different stages of the Work, beginning with our web sites and this forum and casschat, which is the public face, then moving on to the private groups where the strategic enclosure can be built as we work together and get to know one another. Getting involved in the practial aspects of the work of the groups is a great way to discover programmes within yourself.

We are trying to find a modern application of an ancient Tradition.
 
R

RuSTO

Guest
Thanx 'henry' this was a detailed reply & leads to more FAQ. I did search for the
link you gave in answer to 1) but missed it somehow. I note that the heading at the
top of the page refers to the war against 'subjectivity'.
With this in mind I will attempt to rephrase my 1st 3 FAQ into 1) so that hopefully
You are able to clarify for me at least the direction in which SOTT is headed.

Descartes perceived that only 'Mind' exists, hence pronouncing: "I Think therefore
I Am"
1)Is SOTT in agreement with Descartes across the board?

2)
We are trying to find a modern application of an ancient Tradition.
Do You believe an application such as this already exists or do You simply assume
You are destined to incarnate it. I am assuming You speak here of the HG.
If such an application exists, would You consider it an essential 'Higher Influence'
in the co-operative dissemanation of Truth?

In other words I guess I am asking(in Gurdjieffs terminology)are You seeking to
detect the method by which the 'Higher may blend with the Lower to Actualize
the middle'? I ask this as it has occurred to me that the 'Struggle of the Magicians'
is the 'War of the Mind' whereas it makes its 3D appearance as an Information War. So I am trying to get a handle on the SOTT perspective or 'Where You Stand'.

Thanx

I am including this edit as an attempt to clarify the FAQ. Forgive me if this is a
little late, but it relates to a post by 'Laura' from the 'Work' thread which is relevant
to what I am asking, so I hope You do not mind-I am reposting it here:
It should be noted that Gurdjieff - in obvious frustration with the "material" he had to work with - closed his school, sent everyone away, and sat down to write so that maybe, in the future, somebody would "get it." As Gurdjieff himself said (quoted by Ouspensky):
Is SOTT of the opinion that 'none' of Gurdjieffs students went on to surpass the
Teacher?

Thanx again
 

henry

The Living Force
RuSTO said:
Thanx 'henry'
Any particular reason why you put my name in quotes?

RuSTO said:
this was a detailed reply & leads to more FAQ. I did search for the
link you gave in answer to 1) but missed it somehow. I note that the heading at the
top of the page refers to the war against 'subjectivity'.
There is no mission statement per se. Boil it down and it comes to the line that was on our old logo: the daily battle against subjectivity. As individuals, we need to fight against the filters, buffers, and programmes we run that influence how we perceive the world and interpret events, in our own lives and in the world at large. But that still leaves us with a single point of view. The network is needed to help us see our own blindspots, but also because our individual points of view when combined give us a more objective look at things than any of us as individuals.

The work to be objective is the work to balance our centres and fuse the magnetic centre. It provides the fuel because we are constantly forced to deal with the deformations that arise from the partial viewpoints of our small 'I's as well of those of others. Shocks and conflict light the fire.


RuSTO said:
With this in mind I will attempt to rephrase my 1st 3 FAQ into 1) so that hopefully
You are able to clarify for me at least the direction in which SOTT is headed.
Short answer: Over the cliff with everyone else.

Long answer: I am not certain what you mean. In what sense of "where are we headed?" Sorry to turn the question around, but it is very broad.

RuSTO said:
Descartes perceived that only 'Mind' exists, hence pronouncing: "I Think therefore
I Am"
1)Is SOTT in agreement with Descartes across the board?
I'm not even sure that we are in agreement with Descartes on the edges. What if it should be "I am thought, therefore I am"?

What level of reality are we discussing? If there is a level where only "mind" exists, what pertinence does it have to our work here and now? At the moment, I can only say that I have a strong feeling that there is something more to life than this material world.

However, I would venture that there isn't anyone with whom we are "in agreement across the board", not Gurdjieff, not Mouravieff, because we haven't found that ancient tradition whole anywhere. There are important pieces here and there. But who talks expicitly about hyperdimensional realities? Or the Wave? There are hints and tidbits dropped, phrases that can be interpreted as references to organic portals or psychopaths.

Maybe there is some wise man somewhere with it all, but we haven't had the pleasure of meeting him yet.

RuSTO said:
2)
We are trying to find a modern application of an ancient Tradition.
Do You believe an application such as this already exists or do You simply assume
You are destined to incarnate it. I am assuming You speak here of the HG.
If such an application exists, would You consider it an essential 'Higher Influence'
in the co-operative dissemanation of Truth?
Destined to incarnate it? Not at all.

We are doing the best we can to try and understand the ancient teaching and find an application of it that fits in our world and these times. There are no guarantees.

RuSTO said:
In other words I guess I am asking(in Gurdjieffs terminology)are You seeking to
detect the method by which the 'Higher may blend with the Lower to Actualize
the middle'? I ask this as it has occurred to me that the 'Struggle of the Magicians'
is the 'War of the Mind' whereas it makes its 3D appearance as an Information War. So I am trying to get a handle on the SOTT perspective or 'Where You Stand'.
For Truth. For an objective view of ourselves and the world. There is definitely an information war, and the other side has all the money and control. We touch on this in tomorrow's podcast, posing the question of what would change if people were simply "aware".

RuSTO said:
Is SOTT of the opinion that 'none' of Gurdjieffs students went on to surpass the
Teacher?
Well, I don't know all of Gurdjieff's students, so I wouldn't make a blanket statement. What it looks like is that Gurdjieff had knowledge that he tried to apply to the conditions of "civilised" western man. His students had whatever they learned from Gurdjieff. They kept applying what they had learned from him, which in certain cases became recipes that didn't have the life in them anymore. It doesn't look as if they knew as much as G did.

Also, Gurdjieff died. Fulcanelli didn't. The second had knowledge that the first did not. Maybe that means that Gurdjieff himself didn't have all the pieces.

Do you have experience with any of the Gurdjieff schools?
 

Ruth

The Living Force
RuSTO said:
2)In the view of SOTT, what is the 'Ultimate Conspiracy'?

Thanx
Hi RuSTO, I don't know what SOTT would consider the 'Ultimate Conspiracy', but I recently came across what the Cs refered to as the 'Ultimate Secret'. Its sort of close. (I quoted part of this recently on another thread).

In 950121
Q: (L) We already have a one-world government is what they're saying. (T) Yes, they're just waiting to make it official
somehow. (L) Let me ask. What is...
A: Has been so for long time, as you measure time.
Q: (L) Let me ask this one before the tape runs out and we take a break. What is the "ultimate secret" being protected
by the Consortium?
A: You are not in control of yourselves, you are an experiment. BREAK

People can find a copy of the transcripts as part of the files on Casschat. Question to the editors: Are they available from anywhere else on line? I think people might be interested at what the Cs had to say.
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Ruth said:
People can find a copy of the transcripts as part of the files on Casschat. Question to the editors: Are they available from anywhere else on line? I think people might be interested at what the Cs had to say.
Here's a link to the sessions via the Way Back Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030207143300/www.cassiopaea.org/sessions/sessions.htm
 
R

RuSTO

Guest
Hi henry,

Any particular reason why you put my name in quotes?
Yes, it was simply to maintain clarity in the event others entered the exchange.
The emphasis if You like is simply indicative of the fact that I am replying to
Your response on behalf of SOTT as an Administrator. I am certain, though
that you respond with SOTT's blessing, so no need really if You prefer.
There is no mission statement per se
No problem as You have already satisfied my original queery in this regard. I am
content with the simple statement:-'The War against Subjectivity' & the open-ended
approach is great as well as necessary in my view.
But that still leaves us with a single point of view. The network is needed to help us see our own blindspots, but also because our individual points of view when combined give us a more objective look at things than any of us as individuals.
Yes, I understand & a Catch22 is inevitable as each single viewpoint needs to move
rapidly towards objectivity to maintain harmony in order that the Unified Field
Network may hold its righful place, in what has elsewhere in this forum been
referred to as a, colinear alignment.
To clarify:-Whilst I understand & accept that SOTT no doubt has its own 'Higher
Influence', the objective unity aimed at appears to be focused upon the
subjective, as it relates to the dissemination of information in 3D. Correct me if
I am wrong but this intimates to me a 'doing' in the 'Exoteric sense. Whilst I
personally feel that this is both necessary & right, my own research has led me
to understand that colinearity needs to be present at the outset & that in order
for the 'Work' to be complete this colinearity should not only be present
exoterically, but across the board. Now unless I am sorely mistaken & I am open
to correction, there is from my perspective a 'mesoteric component' missing.
The primacy of the Spiritual as 'Esoteric Presence' will reveal its agreement with the colinearity at the appropriate time) & assistance from this influence would come forth in a natural harmonic. One could say, the 'signs shall follow, they shall not proceed as it were.
Thus it becomes pertinent that the esoteric network will arise simultaneously as
the exoteric becomes apparent in 3D. What is essential is that the 'mesoteric
arising' must give regonition to the primacy of the spiritual.
Short answer: Over the cliff with everyone else.
Thats ok - there is always the potential You will fly as Casteneda apparently did.
I am not certain what you mean.
Well, hopefully what I have stated herein clarifies.
What if it should be "I am thought, therefore I am"?
Upon analysis I see no edges - same thing
What level of reality are we discussing?
From an ontological perspective there can only be one level. It must therefore be
omni-dimensional.
Maybe there is some wise man somewhere with it all, but we haven't had the pleasure of meeting him yet.
I think there are many - and I speak in terms (refer previous statements herein)
of Gurdjieffs 200, but now wish to emphasise that if I remember correctly he
refers directly to supermen(i.e.-man #7)
Also, Gurdjieff died. Fulcanelli didn't. The second had knowledge that the first did not. Maybe that means that Gurdjieff himself didn't have all the pieces.
Not sure why You mention this. Ontologically, there is no death. Perhaps Gurdjieffs
reference to 'writing a cheque with 7 figures' was not a reference to the fact that
he was a man #7. I do remember it being written that he stated immortality within
our Cosmos was possible for a man#6 & in any Cosmos for a man#7.
Am I correct in thinking your statement appears to intimate a 'physical immortality'
for Fulcanelli? Either way would make no difference for from an ontological point of
view neither died.
Do you have experience with any of the Gurdjieff schools?
Experience - indirectly. Yes, I am aware of genuine Schools in the tradition
of the 4th Way who utilise 'a modern application' of the Tradition.
There is definitely an information war
I do not disagree, on the contrary. I simply understand it as a symptom of the
Real War, which is a War of the Mind...and the other side 'does not' have the
Tradition.
Thanx again for a detailed reply
 
R

RuSTO

Guest
Wow. Those ontologists sure got a better deal than us humans!
You could say that lol, but to be frank, I think the 'Struggle for Knowledge that
protects' would have to lead thru the illusion of death before it resurrects the
New Life without death. Or then again You could say they had to 'die daily' to
the illusion of death.
 

henry

The Living Force
RuSTO said:
Yes, I understand & a Catch22 is inevitable as each single viewpoint needs to move
rapidly towards objectivity to maintain harmony in order that the Unified Field
Network may hold its righful place, in what has elsewhere in this forum been
referred to as a, colinear alignment.
Colinearity means moving in the same direction. It has nothing to do with speed.


RuSTO said:
To clarify:-Whilst I understand & accept that SOTT no doubt has its own 'Higher
Influence', the objective unity aimed at appears to be focused upon the
subjective, as it relates to the dissemination of information in 3D.
The "Higher Influence" is the contact with the C's.

You asked about Signs of the Times. Signs, is, if you will, one public face of an experiment that has many other facets.


RuSTO said:
Correct me if
I am wrong but this intimates to me a 'doing' in the 'Exoteric sense. Whilst I
personally feel that this is both necessary & right, my own research has led me
to understand that colinearity needs to be present at the outset & that in order
for the 'Work' to be complete this colinearity should not only be present
exoterically, but across the board.
Of course, the colinearity needs to be present across the board, but that level of colinearity is at the esoteric level where direction and level of develoment are closest. At the start, when people are first becoming aware of their mechanical nature, that colinearity exists in potential, as intent. As it becomes manifest in greater portions of one's life, it grows, but we are talking of two aspects. There is the direction one is moving and then there is where one is on the path, or, the level of one's being. Exoteric, mesoteric, and esoteric relate to the latter.

Signs and the forum, as well as casschat, serve as entry points for people. Some will come just for the news, others will want to go further.

RuSTO said:
Now unless I am sorely mistaken & I am open
to correction, there is from my perspective a 'mesoteric component' missing.
No, there are private groups for people who are ready to commit to something more. There are the other sites, cassiopaea.org and quantumfiture.net that go into other aspects. The Signs page is only a part of our work.


RuSTO said:
The primacy of the Spiritual as 'Esoteric Presence' will reveal its agreement with the colinearity at the appropriate time) & assistance from this influence would come forth in a natural harmonic. One could say, the 'signs shall follow, they shall not proceed as it were.
Indeed.


RuSTO said:
Thus it becomes pertinent that the esoteric network will arise simultaneously as
the exoteric becomes apparent in 3D. What is essential is that the 'mesoteric
arising' must give regonition to the primacy of the spiritual.
I agree. Signs is one manifestation of a group that does work on many levels. Without the work on the spiritual, Signs would not be what it is. Then, again, it may depend upon one's definition of "spiritual".


RuSTO said:
Maybe there is some wise man somewhere with it all, but we haven't had the pleasure of meeting him yet.
I think there are many
Have you met them? If so, who are they? Are they doing public work?


RuSTO said:
Also, Gurdjieff died. Fulcanelli didn't. The second had knowledge that the first did not. Maybe that means that Gurdjieff himself didn't have all the pieces.
Not sure why You mention this. Ontologically, there is no death. Perhaps Gurdjieffs
reference to 'writing a cheque with 7 figures' was not a reference to the fact that
he was a man #7. I do remember it being written that he stated immortality within
our Cosmos was possible for a man#6 & in any Cosmos for a man#7.
Am I correct in thinking your statement appears to intimate a 'physical immortality'
for Fulcanelli? Either way would make no difference for from an ontological point of
view neither died.
I am referring to the expanded present of the alchemists, to the notion of hyperdimensions and the possibility that one can exit this realm without dying, which is what the evidence suggests happened to Fulcanelli. The idea of the Ray of Creation is how the Tradition speaks of hyperdimensions. Ark is working on giving this a scientific grounding. It may well be possible to pass into the next higher level without dying if the alchemical processes within the body unlock the DNA that is necessary.

There may also be an important factor of where we are in one of the great cycles. If we are on the threshold of passing an interval, we may not be living in normal times.


RuSTO said:
Do you have experience with any of the Gurdjieff schools?
Experience - indirectly. Yes, I am aware of genuine Schools in the tradition
of the 4th Way who utilise 'a modern application' of the Tradition.
Which ones would you say have successfully achieved this "modern application"?


RuSTO said:
There is definitely an information war
I do not disagree, on the contrary. I simply understand it as a symptom of the
Real War, which is a War of the Mind...and the other side 'does not' have the
Tradition.
Thanx again for a detailed reply
There is a war that goes on in and through each of us with each and every choice and decision we make, whether to ascend or descend, choose the creative path or the entropic path, rise towards spirit or descend towards matter. The information war is one expression of this battle. It is the one the Signs page is focused on. However, the work behind the Signs page, the work that permits that a Signs page exists, is the work of the other sort. Although the distinction is not so clear-cut as that as work on the Signs page can itself be part of the former.

Are you a fairly new reader of SOTT? Have you read any of the material on cassiopaea.org or cassiopaea.com? I am trying to better understand where you are coming from.

Have you read Mouraveiff's trilogy Gnosis, an unveiling of the esoteric Tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church?
 
R

RuSTO

Guest
I am trying to better understand where you are coming from.
Likewise-fortunately the forum of initial communication demands a particular
distillation to ascertain mutual agreement. I believe we can agree this is so
for both parties.
Colinearity means moving in the same direction. It has nothing to do with speed.
Yes I accept in respect of colinear alignment. On the other hand I would have to
say that if consciousness is related to light it will indeed have something to do
with speed.
The "Higher Influence" is the contact with the C's.
Yes this is what I assumed.
one public face of an experiment that has many other facets.
Yes, but it presents itself in a manner which seeks co-operation. My direction
seeks co-operation of the 'Higher&Lower Influence(s)' (Eso/Exoteric Circle) whereby the Esoteric & Exoteric are converged within a mesoteric realisation of the alignment, that itself presents a 'public face'.
Signs and the forum, as well as casschat, serve as entry points for people. Some will come just for the news, others will want to go further.
Yes, this I understand, but in my discovery of it I see that it has the potential for
more. It is the concept of networking information that caught my attention.
So if I could put it in the form of an FAQ now I believe I have conveyed it in the
best manner I can under the circumstances: What of those who come just for the
news? Yes an entry point to its own specifics, but an entry point also which can
provide information to other entry points where those who are only interested
in the news here may find the specifics more appealing at another entry point.
No, there are private groups for people who are ready to commit to something more.
Yes I understand the structure of school, but am attempting to bring forward the
concept of 'different strokes for different folks' in relation to 'genuine'schools across the board.
it may depend upon one's definition of "spiritual".
Does it matter so long as the influence is genuine. What is important from my
perspective is that the nature of the communion brings forth a mesoteric focus which is simultaneously aligned with the exoteric influence at the appropriate time.
Have you met them? If so, who are they? Are they doing public work?
Not physically, but I have met with their work (& communicated with some) as it
is available to those members of the public who seek it. They are ordinary people
who have sought & found answers to their existence.
I am referring to the expanded present of the alchemists, to the notion of hyperdimensions and the possibility that one can exit this realm without dying, which is what the evidence suggests happened to Fulcanelli.
Yes I concur with this as the tradition
Ark is working on giving this a scientific grounding.
Yes I suspected this
There may also be an important factor of where we are in one of the great cycles. If we are on the threshold of passing an interval, we may not be living in normal times.
The pace of change within the last century alone is evidence enough that we are not. But from the point of view of Cosmic Intention they are also not necesarily
abnormal-more like opportune I would think. The arrival of a new type of man was detected in the 1950's as far as my own research shows.
Which ones would you say have successfully achieved this "modern application"?
I am familiar with some in the Occident. I believe there are others in the East
where the Tradition remains intact.
Are you a fairly new reader of SOTT?
I came across Laura's writings sometime last year & purchased 'Secret history' &
have read some of the incredible body of writings she presents.
Have you read Mouraveiff's trilogy Gnosis, an unveiling of the esoteric Tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church?
I have been aware of it & studied references of it in the course of my research,
but was have not been drawn to study it specifically.
 

henry

The Living Force
Hi RuSTO

The thing that strikes me about your answers is that you avoid offering concrete information in your responses. Who are these individuals you have read? What schools do you think are genuine? What traditions have you studied and what do you find of value n them? If there are such individuals and schools, don't you think others on this forum would like to hear about them?

Or are you of the school that they will come across them when they are ready?
 
R

RuSTO

Guest
The thing that strikes me about your answers is that you avoid offering concrete information in your responses. Who are these individuals you have read? What schools do you think are genuine? What traditions have you studied and what do you find of value n them? If there are such individuals and schools, don't you think others on this forum would like to hear about them?
Hi henry,
Not intentional...I have simply attempted to follow the forum etiquette. I do understand that You may not be aware of the following request...
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=430
...as there is a lot of information already for adminstrators to respond to.
Or are you of the school that they will come across them when they are ready?
This will be so irrespective of my thinking, which is that I am happy to contribute
or share information I am aware of. Only I did not think it appropriate to simply
gatecrash - hence the request as referred to herewith.
(Insert)
Yes I concur with this as the tradition
...accept that I believe the word 'tanscend' rather than 'exit' describes the
Tradition more accurately.
 

StrangeCaptain

Jedi Council Member
RuSTO said:
which is that I am happy to contribute
or share information I am aware of. Only I did not think it appropriate to simply
gatecrash
I think Henry just invited you in a very direct way to do so on this thread, so it would no longer be gate crashing.
 
R

RuSTO

Guest
Hi StrangeCaptain,

If there are such individuals and schools, don't you think others on this forum would like to hear about them?
This strikes me as more of an FAQ than a direct invitation. Without further ado however, let me say I am certainly not in the business of secrets. It has long been
'out of the closet' time on our planet & their ain't no 'Secret Doctrine' anymore. This is why I replied that I am happy to share what I am able to, to the best of my ability, though I do feel in this instance the material at least requires some kind
of order.
Why? - well because in my view the 'public face' of the 'Work' already gives
evidence that the 'alchemical process' is a descriptive presentation for the
achievement of 'Objective Consciousness'.
Gurdjieff, to the best of my knowledge did not hide this 'secret' - on the contrary
he revealed it. Now the technique is certainly currently available in the 4th Way
Tradition as it applies to individuals, but from what I understand SOTT is seeking
a certain 'grounding' - perhaps so that it may become more universally available
shall we say. If that is so, then it is certain that this particular understanding
cannot be available to the public before it has been grounded either in QFG or
elsewhere.
I hope I have clarified my position.
 
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