Feeding off our energies

[Menna]

Question: "Do they have conversations with each other in your head."

Answer: "Constantly, constantly, constantly, sometimes I'd do anything to drown them out. Sometimes the vodka helps. What they argue about mainly is that they all want to come out all the time. Like here, with you right this very second, James is whining and whining and begging to come out. He thinks you're nice, motherly or something. He wants to come out just about every time we're here. And Gordon, Gordon wants to be out because he thinks he's he only one who knows how to deal. He thinks the rest of us can't take care of things. Willie wants to convert me and everyone in the world for that matter. He's an unbelievable pain. And abe. You know about Abe. He wants to die. He talks to me alot. It's really hard to keep him in. Sometimes I think I can't do it. He wants to stop coming here.

- Myth of Sanity P 158

For those of you who haven't read this book (Myth of Sanity) the question is coming from a therapist and the answer from Garrett a patient who has Dissociative Identity Disorder a sort of mental protection that creates different people in ones mind to help deal with trauma at a very young age.

To me this disorder sounds very common and has varying degrees. I notice these states in me and they lead to daydreaming I don't have a harsh case of DID but can relate. I believe that the work refers to this as the many "I's" that one has. Now from birth to adolescence we are very vulnerable and develop many "I's" that perhaps were once necessary for survival/coping but once one reaches adult age it becomes destructive.

My question is did the 4D sts beings alter our DNA and alter our spinal cord allowing us to develop to be genetically weaker to develop these many I's so that the 4D STS now can I guess you can say sit back and feed off these negative energies when they manifest in our minds?

Just a theory/question I am not saying this is what happens but would like to open up a discussion about the possibility of it being true/not true.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

My question is did the 4D sts beings alter our DNA and alter our spinal cord allowing us to develop to be genetically weaker to develop these many I's so that the 4D STS now can I guess you can say sit back and feed off these negative energies when they manifest in our minds?

It would be hard to say for sure. However, Laura has written about how psychopaths have used our capacity for positive dissociation against us (in her Golden Age article in the Dot Connector). So there is probably a 4D STS component, but whether they put it there, or are just utilizing it, I don't know. There's also the stuff Gurdjieff wrote about hypnotism in Beelzebub's Tales to consider. He ascribes all humanity's ills to its hypnotism, but also says that it is this same quality that holds the potential for our salvation, or words to that effect.

 

[Menna]

"There's also the stuff Gurdjieff wrote about hypnotism in Beelzebub's Tales to consider. He ascribes all humanity's ills to its hypnotism, but also says that it is this same quality that holds the potential for our salvation, or words to that effect."

I have not purchased Beelzebub as I believe it is more important to understand the practical books first so I can apply but I do plan on reading it eventually.

Talking about hypnotism reminds me of a time when I was in the Fellowship of Friends (Yes I know fake 4th way group) however there was this one meeting. I remember I had a lot of mental chatter that day and was thinking about the "problems" in my life. About 40min into that 60min meeting I noticed that the mental chatter was gone as soon as I entered the apartment. I felt like my skull was emptied. When I left the meeting (apartment) all the mental noise came back. I believe I was either hypnotized by one of the senior members that were there one in particular who I was close with or the energies the group members shared had that effect on me. Either way I felt lighter/free for that hour. To be able to live like that would be a blessing.

 

[Buddy]

Talking about hypnotism reminds me of a time when I was in the Fellowship of Friends (Yes I know fake 4th way group) however there was this one meeting. I remember I had a lot of mental chatter that day and was thinking about the "problems" in my life. About 40min into that 60min meeting I noticed that the mental chatter was gone as soon as I entered the apartment. I felt like my skull was emptied. When I left the meeting (apartment) all the mental noise came back. I believe I was either hypnotized by one of the senior members that were there one in particular who I was close with or the energies the group members shared had that effect on me. Either way I felt lighter/free for that hour. To be able to live like that would be a blessing.

That is interesting. There is a concept called 'state-dependent recall' that I think has now evolved into 'aligning learning and performance contexts'. I wonder what would happen if you recollected as many details of that meeting as possible? In terms of that concept, that meeting represents a 'learning' context and your detailed recollection would now represent a 'performance' context. Depending on how well you could align the two contexts, would you also re-experience feeling 'lighter/free'? Have you tried something like that?

 

[Deleted member 4320]

Talking about hypnotism reminds me of a time when I was in the Fellowship of Friends (Yes I know fake 4th way group) however there was this one meeting. I remember I had a lot of mental chatter that day and was thinking about the "problems" in my life. About 40min into that 60min meeting I noticed that the mental chatter was gone as soon as I entered the apartment. I felt like my skull was emptied. When I left the meeting (apartment) all the mental noise came back. I believe I was either hypnotized by one of the senior members that were there one in particular who I was close with or the energies the group members shared had that effect on me.

I think your inner dialog which lead your mind to thinking about "problems" and deal with burdensome patterns is example of the control of your mind by negative emotions. When you was at the meeting your attention was grabbed by the stronger incentive and you dissociate, but when it passed you come back to your mechanical state.

Either way I felt lighter/free for that hour. To be able to live like that would be a blessing.

Well, do the EE, do the Beatha, this will help you to control yourself. Ballast must be thrown.

 

[Menna]

Buddy - I have not heard of State Dependent recall. Is there literature on this topic so I can learn more?

Lux - Yes negative emotions fester in my mind. I am at the point where I don't let them control my actions but they sometimes control my mood they get stuck in my mind and I reason them out. Until the next negative thought comes then I start the mental reasoning process. It gets the job done but I believe it is insufficient and very draining takes energy tires me out makes me just want to go back to sleep...Sleep meaning bed.

I do EE once weekly on Wednesdays I posted in the ongoing EE thread that it does help reduce the mental chatter and through my work so far the mental activity the negative introject is not as strong/frequent as it was a year ago at the time of the meeting but it still comes and goes. I mean at that meeting I was completely empty. Whether I disassociated or not if there is a healthy mental state where one can feel like that free of worries and negative emotions I would like to get there. Probably what the work is all about. Just having an objective clear mind of reality and dealing with it accordingly.

I feel like when I was younger I didn't have these negative thoughts but was very mechanical asleep and as I got older the negative thoughts started then 2-3 years ago started to wake up become a little less mechanical but the thoughts are still here

I remember reading that Fulcanelli completed the work. Did he gives a description or a sort of time line of what he was like before he started...During and then...After when he was finished. If so anyone know the book or where I could get that information. Would think this would be a good compass.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I remember reading that Fulcanelli completed the work. Did he gives a description or a sort of time line of what he was like before he started...During and then...After when he was finished. If so anyone know the book or where I could get that information. Would think this would be a good compass.

AFAIK, no such information is available. But keep in mind Fulcanelli was an old man when he 'completed the Work'. And Gurdjieff said that as hard as it is to "make a million dollars", the Work is even harder. I think it's important to keep in mind that everyone is different, the Work proceeds in different times and different cycles for everyone. There's no set guide, compass, or checklist. That said, I've found that Dabrowski's work probably comes closest for me. In other words, "This needs a bit of work, I should focus on this, I fall short here, etc."

 

[Menna]

I have heard of him and his theory of positive disintegration but never looked into it. I will order the book.

btw what does AFAIK mean?

 

[1984]

I have heard of him and his theory of positive disintegration but never looked into it. I will order the book.

btw what does AFAIK mean?

As Far As I Know.

 

[obyvatel]

The inner struggle with negative emotions or as Gurdjieff called it "the struggle between yes and no" is an intrinsic and essential part of the Work on the self. Some people following so called spiritual leaders as well as New Agers claim to have reached that level of being free from mental chatter. It is a tempting proposition but imo if this is caused by external or artificial means (like proximity to people and/or groups) and not as a result of constant inner work - then it would be a trap.

Existence in 3D earth at the present time involves a grim energetic struggle and it takes place through us. Temporary interludes in the war could be welcome and necessary - like the period of deep relaxation and calmness that comes after a session of EE - but trying to look for this state as a permanent fixture within ourselves could be problematic. Like AI mentioned, Dabrowski's theories give a reasonable roadmap of what lies in store for those embarking in such a struggle - and true inner peace can perhaps come only after considerable struggle and going through the stage of secondary integration - a stage very very few are able to reach.

Menna, Dabrowski's work is referenced in the following threads:
A Brief Overview Dabrowski's Theory of Positive Disintegration
Brief Look at Dabrowski's Multilevelness of Emotional And Instinctive Functions

 

[Buddy]

[quote author=Menna]
Buddy - I have not heard of State Dependent recall. Is there literature on this topic so I can learn more?[/quote]

Context-dependent memory in general
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-dependent_memory

Context-dependent memory in a Linguistics domain:

Since Tulving and Thomson (1973) first introduced the encoding specificity principle a quarter of a century ago, cognitive psychologists have investigated context-dependent memory in a number of different domains. Researchers have found memory retrieval to vary with environmental context, with mood and internal context, and with mental reinstatement of context (see Davies & Thomson, 1988, for a review). The present article argues that linguistic context may lead to similar effects. We propose that memories become more accessible when language at retrieval matches language at encoding. We show that the retrieval language influences recall in two distinct ways: (a) by associations between specific words and (b) by an overall effect of linguistic ambiance.
Generally speaking, any increase in the similarity between the linguistic environments at encoding and at retrieval should facilitate recall.
_http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/bilingualism-psycholinguistics/files/memory.pdf (8pgs)

Affect and memory research: mood effects info retrieval.

That fact that affect influences memory is borne out in one's everyday life as well as in the laboratory. One need only experience a "black mood" once to know that a prevailing mood state can serve to bias the filtering of incoming information and the accessibility of already stored information.
_http://pmc.psych.northwestern.edu/revelle/publications/rl91/rev_loft.implicat.html

And my personal favorite:

Aligning the Learning and Performance Contexts
Creating Spontaneous Remembering
_http://willthalheimer.typepad.com/files/aligning-learning-and-performance-contexts_v2009.pdf (54 pgs)

Note: this info could also be helpful for your students if you're a teacher.

 

[Z...]

As Far As I Know.

OIGN!

(oh I get it now)

sorry to divert the thread but if we continue in this fashion this is how our communication will look like, well perhaps I am too biased against rampant use of shorts for everything...

 

[Palinurus]

sorry to divert the thread but if we continue in this fashion this is how our communication will look like, well perhaps I am too biased against rampant use of shorts for everything...

May I remind you of the existence of a topic/thread about the abbreviations in English used on the forum? It's here:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,1599.html
You have to be logged in to be able to read it.

 

[Buddy]

OIGN!

(oh I get it now)

...well perhaps I am too biased against rampant use of shorts for everything...

Then why would you contribute to a "rampant use of shorts"? I second the pointer provided by Palinurus, FWIW.

 

[Menna]

Obvyatel - That makes sense. Maybe why the C's force the person who is asking the question to find out and work to find out for themselves. One can be guided but to rely on someone or thing to progress is dangerous. Paints the picture that it serves one well to be independent and climb up the ladder independently. FWIW I believe I am at Level III: Spontaneous Multilevel Disintegration working towards level IIII

I know you can't think with the way you think but when you get to a certain point in the work do you believe that you no longer need the guidance of someone above you? You can be your own guide once at a certain level using B influence information, knowledge/being to progress?

Buddy - Thanks I will look into it

Herr Eisenheim - When I was working in teaching I had students writing essays and writing the world you as "u" in their papers and writing because as "bc"...The txting language is spilling over into scholarly works at the middle school and high school level.