Feeling the Illusion

[patty2292]

Two days ago i had an amazing experience of what i would perceive as remembering myself. I was Reading ISOTM, on a nice sunny day in the park that i had biked too. It was early so not many loud or distracting people where out, just the kind that like to go for a walk early in the morning.

Reading a section where G. discusses being aware of yourself, and of what you are yourself doing, really hit me. I instantly got this very strange feedback loop, not just a single tracked line from my eyes to the words on the page. e.g ------->

It was more of a two way feeling, <------->, where i was reading, but i felt everything else at the same time. I could feel my skin absorbing the sun, my breathing became deeper and more calm. And my mind just drifted through the words without loosing focus. I could actually feel myself experiencing the activity i was in. I was not just reading, i was for the first time feeling myself reading. Experiencing the experience.
To cut it short, it was what i perceived to be more of an awake self aware state. So for the whole day, i noticed myself continually going back in and out of this state of mind, and just trying to put focus on maintaining it. It was a very pleasant day with a whole new side of things i hadn't fully seen before.

All that being said, yesterday i had this strange state of emptiness about me. After trying to just 'get over it' through work, which failed, it suddenly hit me what i was experiencing. Although it was a great experience to see myself in more of an awake state, what came with that is the truth of how much of life i sift through asleep. Seeing myself awaken for a period of time, actually shown me the amount i am asleep, and it just took the wind out of me.
I didnt feel down or look at it negatively so to speak, but it was just shocking to actually see it. The truth about the state in which ive lived most of my life.

Looking then to the forum for some reading on this, i came across The First Initiation ( https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28065.0.html ). And it just intensified my feelings,making it go a little deeper. As it put words to alot of my feelings. I seen that my whole life was just a grandiose illusion of sleepy decisions and sleepy actions to maintain where i was; fast asleep. I just found it absolutely crazy that i had experienced my life through my eyes, but was not actually present for a vast majority of it. Just tagging along for the ride. I was behind this veil of illusion that i thought i was in control of my decisions. It felt like i have lived 23 years on this planet, but only experienced afew days, if not hours.

I can only describe the feeling as this deep, emptiness. A real sadness. It wasnt anything near to the surface, the whole outer parts of my body just went lifeless, but there was this feeling of an empty dense ball inside of my being that was absolutely gob smacked at this sight and truth about the life it lives.
Because i was in work, and i didnt want to bum the people around me down, trying to be externally considerate i had to try to atleast be polite when spoken to - even if i wanted to be silent with these feelings. When someone spoke i felt the life shoot back in to my body; and i replied like a normal person, someone who was experiencing nothing of this kind at all. I seen my body literally become a robot to participate for afew seconds, then shut back down to this feeling of lifelessness. Like a button that gets pushed that creates the extroverted character i perceive myself to be.

I mean, that robot... Thats who is normally running the show. He spoke in a different voice that i hadnt noticed before, one that had this ideal and self narrative about it. It was like my shell was talking, and nothing from the true inside of me.

As soon as i got home, i done EE and went straight to bed, hopefully giving some time to digest and process this information. Today, i woke up with alot more energy than normal, and a clearer mind. But i just know that through today, that robot guy is going to have control for alot of it. And it just gets so sick and tiring having him run around with ME caged inside now that i know the difference in feeling and perception from one to the other.

It just really got to me; the potential we have here in a life that has been wasted on narratives, a grandiose perception of ourselfs, and lies that we dont even know we are telling ourselves or others.

 

[Alada]

Those are all very useful observations I think, as it says in the First Initiation "You will see that you are two".

It is indeed a shock to realise how much the machine can do on its own, without our needing to be present at all. But without our possessing any proper power of attention it seems we never come to see this without some kind of shock. A question then becomes, ‘how can I cultivate greater attention’?

I think to that end we must try to notice ourselves much as we can, as often as we can, in order to grow and maintain this kind of attention. And I think I’d be more inclined to look at it in that light, as the growth of proper attention, rather than define it as some kind of ‘special state’, its really only special in comparison to our usual level of sleep.

Attention is more like a muscle perhaps, more more we learn to use and nurture it, the stronger it can grow. With practice then we can come to see/feel/sense ourselves more clearly, become more conscious of what we are thinking, sensing, feeling, desiring, doing at every moment. But as with any muscle if we don’t practice then nothing much happens. And when we lapse, it can very quickly lose condition and become as weak as it was to begin with, so discipline is needed here I think, as with any form training.

The true nature of our automatism is an aspect of ‘the terror of the situation’, the shock of which should inspire us all to action I think.

 

[T.C.]

Hi Huxley

What a gift of an experience! And the way you describe it, I could really relate.

Seeing myself awaken for a period of time, actually shown me the amount i am asleep, and it just took the wind out of me.

I got a lump in my throat reading this. It's tragic, isn't it. There's a quote from Laura in The Wave about how we're only asleep for as long as we need to be. I like to remember it because my predators mind has always loved to use the "look how much time you've wasted!" argument to discourage me because "might as well not bother at this stage".

I can only describe the feeling as this deep, emptiness. A real sadness. It wasnt anything near to the surface, the whole outer parts of my body just went lifeless, but there was this feeling of an empty dense ball inside of my being that was absolutely gob smacked at this sight and truth about the life it lives.

What you describe is very much like the experience I had recently that brought me back to the forum. For me, the emptiness was troubling, yet at the same time I was strangely comforted by it, because it was nice to experience being alive without having to colour everything inside and outside of me with filters and buffers.

But i just know that through today, that robot guy is going to have control for alot of it. And it just gets so sick and tiring having him run around with ME caged inside now that i know the difference in feeling and perception from one to the other.

I think this is hugely important - knowing that it's not just a case of waking up once and that's it, but constantly trying to achieve this attentive state. This is where you have to be patient with yourself(selves). G. always said that the first step is a prolonged period of observation. So there's no race; it's a long-term process now.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

Two days ago i had an amazing experience of what i would perceive as remembering myself. I was Reading ISOTM, on a nice sunny day in the park that i had biked too. It was early so not many loud or distracting people where out, just the kind that like to go for a walk early in the morning.

Reading a section where G. discusses being aware of yourself, and of what you are yourself doing, really hit me. I instantly got this very strange feedback loop, not just a single tracked line from my eyes to the words on the page. e.g ------->

It was more of a two way feeling, <------->, where i was reading, but i felt everything else at the same time. I could feel my skin absorbing the sun, my breathing became deeper and more calm. And my mind just drifted through the words without loosing focus. I could actually feel myself experiencing the activity i was in. I was not just reading, i was for the first time feeling myself reading. Experiencing the experience.
To cut it short, it was what i perceived to be more of an awake self aware state. So for the whole day, i noticed myself continually going back in and out of this state of mind, and just trying to put focus on maintaining it. It was a very pleasant day with a whole new side of things i hadn't fully seen before.

All that being said, yesterday i had this strange state of emptiness about me. After trying to just 'get over it' through work, which failed, it suddenly hit me what i was experiencing. Although it was a great experience to see myself in more of an awake state, what came with that is the truth of how much of life i sift through asleep. Seeing myself awaken for a period of time, actually shown me the amount i am asleep, and it just took the wind out of me.
I didnt feel down or look at it negatively so to speak, but it was just shocking to actually see it. The truth about the state in which ive lived most of my life.

Looking then to the forum for some reading on this, i came across The First Initiation ( https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28065.0.html ). And it just intensified my feelings,making it go a little deeper. As it put words to alot of my feelings. I seen that my whole life was just a grandiose illusion of sleepy decisions and sleepy actions to maintain where i was; fast asleep. I just found it absolutely crazy that i had experienced my life through my eyes, but was not actually present for a vast majority of it. Just tagging along for the ride. I was behind this veil of illusion that i thought i was in control of my decisions. It felt like i have lived 23 years on this planet, but only experienced afew days, if not hours.

I can only describe the feeling as this deep, emptiness. A real sadness. It wasnt anything near to the surface, the whole outer parts of my body just went lifeless, but there was this feeling of an empty dense ball inside of my being that was absolutely gob smacked at this sight and truth about the life it lives.
Because i was in work, and i didnt want to bum the people around me down, trying to be externally considerate i had to try to atleast be polite when spoken to - even if i wanted to be silent with these feelings. When someone spoke i felt the life shoot back in to my body; and i replied like a normal person, someone who was experiencing nothing of this kind at all. I seen my body literally become a robot to participate for afew seconds, then shut back down to this feeling of lifelessness. Like a button that gets pushed that creates the extroverted character i perceive myself to be.

I mean, that robot... Thats who is normally running the show. He spoke in a different voice that i hadnt noticed before, one that had this ideal and self narrative about it. It was like my shell was talking, and nothing from the true inside of me.

As soon as i got home, i done EE and went straight to bed, hopefully giving some time to digest and process this information. Today, i woke up with alot more energy than normal, and a clearer mind. But i just know that through today, that robot guy is going to have control for alot of it. And it just gets so sick and tiring having him run around with ME caged inside now that i know the difference in feeling and perception from one to the other.

It just really got to me; the potential we have here in a life that has been wasted on narratives, a grandiose perception of ourselfs, and lies that we dont even know we are telling ourselves or others.

wow thank you! i read it in one go and i am still under impression, as i expirienced again, what i just had vitnesd week ago in my reality split, or a glimps of oppennig, and i asked for help here
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39000.msg588990.html#msg588990
and all advices and suport were and are of great help ... since than i keep focusing to be present at least in some most important situations, and after reading how you feel it, i can get back and reconstruct the whole situation and examine it again less emotionally, what is of big help as i can see from this firs impression.

 

[patty2292]

Those are all very useful observations I think, as it says in the First Initiation "You will see that you are two".

It is indeed a shock to realise how much the machine can do on its own, without our needing to be present at all. But without our possessing any proper power of attention it seems we never come to see this without some kind of shock. A question then becomes, ‘how can I cultivate greater attention’?

I think to that end we must try to notice ourselves much as we can, as often as we can, in order to grow and maintain this kind of attention. And I think I’d be more inclined to look at it in that light, as the growth of proper attention, rather than define it as some kind of ‘special state’, its really only special in comparison to our usual level of sleep.

Attention is more like a muscle perhaps, more more we learn to use and nurture it, the stronger it can grow. With practice then we can come to see/feel/sense ourselves more clearly, become more conscious of what we are thinking, sensing, feeling, desiring, doing at every moment. But as with any muscle if we don’t practice then nothing much happens. And when we lapse, it can very quickly lose condition and become as weak as it was to begin with, so discipline is needed here I think, as with any form training.

The true nature of our automatism is an aspect of ‘the terror of the situation’, the shock of which should inspire us all to action I think.

That question seems to be the next stage to look at, Alada. As ive seen it, ive seen the signs and how to some what recognize the feelings associated with it. Attempting to continue this in work yesterday left me feeling extremely drained - more so than normal. It was taking alot more of my attention to keep focus as the day went on, and I just slowly went into exhaustion. It really is as you described; a muscle that must be trained and given strength.
Id agree, this is not as such a special state. But when noticed with that overwhelming feeling it feels pretty intense when the emotional attachment is high. Looking back now, i can only see it as something to slowly and gradually aim for and is potentially in reach further down the line, which is kind of nice to have ill admit.

Hi Huxley

What a gift of an experience! And the way you describe it, I could really relate.

Seeing myself awaken for a period of time, actually shown me the amount i am asleep, and it just took the wind out of me.

I got a lump in my throat reading this. It's tragic, isn't it. There's a quote from Laura in The Wave about how we're only asleep for as long as we need to be. I like to remember it because my predators mind has always loved to use the "look how much time you've wasted!" argument to discourage me because "might as well not bother at this stage".

I can only describe the feeling as this deep, emptiness. A real sadness. It wasnt anything near to the surface, the whole outer parts of my body just went lifeless, but there was this feeling of an empty dense ball inside of my being that was absolutely gob smacked at this sight and truth about the life it lives.

What you describe is very much like the experience I had recently that brought me back to the forum. For me, the emptiness was troubling, yet at the same time I was strangely comforted by it, because it was nice to experience being alive without having to colour everything inside and outside of me with filters and buffers.

Im somewhat looking at it in a positive light, that ''Look how much time you've wasted'' is kind of motivating because sadly it is the truth. Yano, we have wasted time, im sure all of us at some point can admit that. But the aim would be to not waste as much time now, to try to get just a little bit more out of life. Just little aim's as Gurdjieff says, maybe not to waste as much time this afternoon... Then just a little more this evening. Its a struggle to not just have that feeling to run at it head on like a raging maniac. But again, the truth is: we are slow. So we need to take it slow, with aims that are actually in arms length for now. Happy to see that you can relate to these feelings T.C.

You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you!

I agree T.C that the feeling itself was quite comforting being so bare and stripped away of the things that are not actually us. It reminds me of what Gurdjieff speaks of regarding the experience of our essence, and when we feel it, as it was left undeveloped at a young age, we will be empty apart from our basic; I like, I dont like, Im hot, Im cold, Im hungry etc.

wow thank you! i read it in one go and i am still under impression, as i expirienced again, what i just had vitnesd week ago in my reality split, or a glimps of oppennig, and i asked for help here
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39000.msg588990.html#msg588990
and all advices and suport were and are of great help ... since than i keep focusing to be present at least in some most important situations, and after reading how you feel it, i can get back and reconstruct the whole situation and examine it again less emotionally, what is of big help as i can see from this firs impression.

Im glad that this post acted as a little alarm clock for you to re-experience your event. Ive found it alot easier to be present with myself when i am in an ideal environment i.e, reading or typing here. But out in the work, for me atleast, it is a whole new ball game. Kind of where the bigger program's kick in to action to fit in with people. But when i cant do much or lack energy, i simply try to focus on my breathing to atleast stay with my body more than drift away from it.

 

[Alada]

Attempting to continue this in work yesterday left me feeling extremely drained - more so than normal. It was taking alot more of my attention to keep focus as the day went on, and I just slowly went into exhaustion. It really is as you described; a muscle that must be trained and given strength.

In terms of reaching exhaustion, maybe go back to the analogy and think about it. Would it be reasonable to expect someone to train all day? Sounds as if you try to do too much too soon, I think Gurdjieff advised his students to only give a third of their waking hours to work, and to set tasks such as this aside making special definite time for it, not to mix ordinary life with it.

Perhaps it might help, to realise that nobody is expected to be able to stay awake all the time, which if we do try to do it (and fail as we must) might then only drain energy rather than conserve it, especially if the inevitable failure sees us drift off into negative thought loops and emotions, in which case we’re worse off than we were before!

So maybe have definite sessions when you ‘go to the gym’, and train hard. The rest of the time can be given to other things.

[quote author=Jacob Needleman – Lost Christianity]
It is not demanded of us that we always be in the state of the heart which grants us vision and self-mastery. It is only demanded of us that we know the state we are in.[/quote]

 

[patty2292]

Attempting to continue this in work yesterday left me feeling extremely drained - more so than normal. It was taking alot more of my attention to keep focus as the day went on, and I just slowly went into exhaustion. It really is as you described; a muscle that must be trained and given strength.

In terms of reaching exhaustion, maybe go back to the analogy and think about it. Would it be reasonable to expect someone to train all day? Sounds as if you try to do too much too soon, I think Gurdjieff advised his students to only give a third of their waking hours to work, and to set tasks such as this aside making special definite time for it, not to mix ordinary life with it.

Perhaps it might help, to realise that nobody is expected to be able to stay awake all the time, which if we do try to do it (and fail as we must) might then only drain energy rather than conserve it, especially if the inevitable failure sees us drift off into negative thought loops and emotions, in which case we’re worse off than we were before!

So maybe have definite sessions when you ‘go to the gym’, and train hard. The rest of the time can be given to other things.

Just little aim's as Gurdjieff says, maybe not to waste as much time this afternoon... Then just a little more this evening. Its a struggle to not just have that feeling to run at it head on like a raging maniac. But again, the truth is: we are slow. So we need to take it slow, with aims that are actually in arms length for now.

Seems I did not even see that i was overworking myself and the aim was actually abit heavier than i could handle.

 

[Keyhole]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention Alada. It seems that i was seeing it in simple black and white. If i wasnt in a certain state, then i was in the wrong. Thus forcing myself to hard when i hadn't even recovered from the previous day.

FWIW Huxley, I also experience the same types of black and white thinking patterns. If, at the end of the day, it's brought to my attention that I have not even attempted to observe myself once in the whole day, I am "wrong". This triggers other programmes where I then begin to beat myself up for not having the strength and discipline to carry out a few "simple" exercises at least once or twice in that day. But I think it would be best if we learned to show compassion towards ourselves, in the sense that we are only human, and we are essentially asleep all of the time. That is the way that the Matrix is designed to be, so the very fact that we are even endowed with the capacity to comprehend the possibility of their potentially being a 'way out' is a start, and IMO something we should be extremely thankful for. Saying this, having compassion for ourselves does not mean becoming self-indulgent or complacant.

So I guess that if we are able to struggle with our programmed behaviours and ways of thinking, to attempt to bring our awareness into ourselves rather than 'out there' as much as possible, while keeping in our minds that we shall inevitably face difficulties along the way and that that is OK, then we can utilize those 'hiccups' and downfalls rather than allowing them to take control of our state of mind. The times when we slip up and make mistakes, rather than making us "wrong", can be percieved as a way that can propel us forward to increase the efforts for next time we face difficulties. Something that I find helpful to remind myself of when I am descending into black and white thinking such as "I am in the wrong" is to remind myself that I am only a human being :)

Seems I did not even see that i was overworking myself and the aim was actually abit heavier than i could handle.

To me, an aim of "being conscious and in control of the machine" was just completely overwhelming. Where does one start?!
Small aims for each day helps I think, and develops discipline gradually. Take it easy with things Huxley, try not to exhaust yourself :)

 

[patty2292]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention Alada. It seems that i was seeing it in simple black and white. If i wasnt in a certain state, then i was in the wrong. Thus forcing myself to hard when i hadn't even recovered from the previous day.

FWIW Huxley, I also experience the same types of black and white thinking patterns. If, at the end of the day, it's brought to my attention that I have not even attempted to observe myself once in the whole day, I am "wrong". This triggers other programmes where I then begin to beat myself up for not having the strength and discipline to carry out a few "simple" exercises at least once or twice in that day. But I think it would be best if we learned to show compassion towards ourselves, in the sense that we are only human, and we are essentially asleep all of the time. That is the way that the Matrix is designed to be, so the very fact that we are even endowed with the capacity to comprehend the possibility of their potentially being a 'way out' is a start, and IMO something we should be extremely thankful for. Saying this, having compassion for ourselves does not mean becoming self-indulgent or complacant.

So I guess that if we are able to struggle with our programmed behaviours and ways of thinking, to attempt to bring our awareness into ourselves rather than 'out there' as much as possible, while keeping in our minds that we shall inevitably face difficulties along the way and that that is OK, then we can utilize those 'hiccups' and downfalls rather than allowing them to take control of our state of mind. The times when we slip up and make mistakes, rather than making us "wrong", can be percieved as a way that can propel us forward to increase the efforts for next time we face difficulties. Something that I find helpful to remind myself of when I am descending into black and white thinking such as "I am in the wrong" is to remind myself that I am only a human being :)

Seems I did not even see that i was overworking myself and the aim was actually abit heavier than i could handle.

To me, an aim of "being conscious and in control of the machine" was just completely overwhelming. Where does one start?!
Small aims for each day helps I think, and develops discipline gradually. Take it easy with things Huxley, try not to exhaust yourself :)

After getting to nearly half way into Inviting A Monkey To Tea, ive finally realised the program that kicks in. That inner parent thats working through me. Its the wanting acknowledgment from others... Originating from wanting it from my father growing up.
So i see it that if im in this 'wrong' mentality, im seen as a failure. To the people i now see more as family; this forum, and The Work. It truly is hard to just stop in your tracks of this negative though loop and say, hey yano... Your doing fine, well done for trying, and keep trying again. But because i dont acknowledge this, it boils up and comes out as projection onto others.

Recently i have been been mentally saying, for example if im thinking a judgmental thought or daydreaming, that ''This is not me, it is just a part of me''. It really does lift the mood and lets it slide off nicely without any tension or disgust in ones self. But with this, i just got so swooped away with the whole idea, that trying to observe myself only lead me into sleep. Completely missing my feelings; tired and being stressed in work. I assumed this was down to my 'failure', but really i just missed the true observation. So it was a lesson in itself atleast.

And yes it is quite overwhelming, it just seemed so mystical and far off from our ordinary lives at first sight that I couldnt, in the past, imagine it to be something accessible, but in reality it truly is. Especially when we look back into our past and see how much we've grown. And sure we all deserve to give ourselves a big well done and a pat on the back for getting to this stage .

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=91

From Gurdjieff's Views from the Real World, Pages 90-93

Question: I frequently remember my aim but I have not the energy to do what I feel I should do.

Answer: Man has no energy to fulfill voluntary aims because all his strength, acquired at night during his passive state, is used up in negative manifestations. These are his automatic manifestations, the opposite of his positive, willed manifestations.
For those of you who are already able to remember your aim automatically, but have no strength to do it: Sit for a period of at least one hour alone. Make all your muscles relaxed. Allow your associations to proceed but do not be absorbed by them. Say to them: If you will let me do as I wish now, I shall later grant you your wishes. Look on your associations as though they belonged to someone else, to keep yourself from identifying with them.


At the end of an hour take a piece of paper and write your aim on it. Make this paper your God. Everything else is nothing. Take it out of your pocket and read it constantly, every day. In this way it becomes part of you, at first theoretically, later actually. To gain energy, practice this exercise of sitting still and making your muscles dead. Only when everything in you is quiet after an hour, make your decision about your aim. Don't let associations absorb you. To undertake a voluntary aim, and to achieve it, gives magnetism and the ability to 'do.'

Seems rather comical to do this when i read it. But it would be a little alarm clock for abit in all fairness. Maybe after EE, take some time to decide a little aim; maybe get out of bed earlier, eat slower, breath deeply afew times an hour etc. They dont seem to impressive at first sight, but im sure having a reminder with you will make us realize how much we actually forget, even something so minimal.

 

[casper]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention Alada. It seems that i was seeing it in simple black and white. If i wasnt in a certain state, then i was in the wrong. Thus forcing myself to hard when i hadn't even recovered from the previous day.

There are moments in which to think in terms of all or nothing, never or always, great or terrible, black or white, but it is also true that such moments rarity. A lot of people and situations we have to think in terms of shades of gray, with words like sometimes, often, regularly, occasionally, well more accurately and more appropriate.

There is no such thing as failure. Whenever you try to do something and fail, it is not a failure. You've learned that something is not working. Whenever someone tells you that he never made a mistake, you're talking to someone who has never tried anything new. ;)