FOTCM Statement of Principles

henry

The Living Force
The following are the Statement of Principles of the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind. If you are thinking of becoming a member, please read them carefully so that you understand them. If you have any questions, this thread is the place to ask.

You can find more information about the FOTCM on the other threads on this board, or at the the Fellowship’s site.

FOTCM Statement of Principles said:
The primitive concepts woven together into the core of the Fellowship’s world view can be expressed in short form in the words of Kurt Gödel, who wrote:

1. The world is rational.

2. Human reason can, in principle, be developed more highly (through certain techniques).

3. There are systematic methods for the solution of all problems (also art, etc.).

4. There are other worlds and rational beings of a different and higher kind.

5. The world in which we live is not the only one in which we shall live or have lived.

6. There is incomparably more knowable a priori than is currently known.

7. The development of human thought since the Renaissance is thoroughly intelligible (durchaus einsichtige).

8. Reason in mankind will be developed in every direction.

9. Formal rights comprise a real science.

10. Materialism is false.

11. The higher beings are connected to the others by analogy, not by composition.

12. Concepts have an objective existence.

13. There is a scientific (exact) philosophy and theology, which deals with concepts of the highest abstractness; and this is also most highly fruitful for science.

14. Religions are, for the most part, bad but religion is not.

For a more in-depth look at the foundations of the Fellowship, you may wish to read the following document:

The Principles of the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind (PDF)
 

teeeg

The Force is Strong With This One
These principles definitely resonate with me as I understand them so far. Would someone be able to help me clarify some of the ideas intending to be conveyed in the principles listed below?



6. There is incomparably more knowable a priori than is currently known.
From my understanding a priori means knowledge known independent of experience, so would this mean that there is knowledge, or truth, able to be tapped or learned independent of an experience proving it?


7. The development of human thought since the Renaissance is thoroughly intelligible (durchaus einsichtige).
I am understanding this to mean that since the Renaissance, humans have begun to consciously evolve thought processes in a way that expanded awareness, reason, objectivity, and insight.


9. Formal rights comprise a real science.
Would these rights all descend from the respect of Free Will? Is this science the observation of one's interactions with others to determine how best to respect the Free Will of others? What is the nature of these rights...would this refer to the STO way of existence?


11. The higher beings are connected to the others by analogy, not by composition.
Who are the others? Other higher beings? Would being connected by analogy mean that they are similar in their higher being-ness, but are otherwise not alike?


13. There is a scientific (exact) philosophy and theology, which deals with concepts of the highest abstractness; and this is also most highly fruitful for science.
Is this referring to mainstream science? How precisely does this science of the highest abstractness benefit "normal" science?
 

Renaissance

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
teeeg said:
These principles definitely resonate with me as I understand them so far. Would someone be able to help me clarify some of the ideas intending to be conveyed in the principles listed below?

6. There is incomparably more knowable a priori than is currently known.
From my understanding a priori means knowledge known independent of experience, so would this mean that there is knowledge, or truth, able to be tapped or learned independent of an experience proving it?

I think this is coming from the perspective of our current level of understanding and experiences, and stating there is an infinite amount of knowledge beyond this level. I don't think the focus is on knowledge outside experience, but that there is knowledge outside our experience.

teeeg said:
7. The development of human thought since the Renaissance is thoroughly intelligible (durchaus einsichtige).
I am understanding this to mean that since the Renaissance, humans have begun to consciously evolve thought processes in a way that expanded awareness, reason, objectivity, and insight.

My understanding is that humans haven't developed much, if at all since the Renaissance. In fact our world seems worse off now. However, accessing the changes in human thought has become easier since the invention of the printing press, and perhaps other practices that came out of the Renaissance.

teeeg said:
9. Formal rights comprise a real science.
Would these rights all descend from the respect of Free Will? Is this science the observation of one's interactions with others to determine how best to respect the Free Will of others? What is the nature of these rights...would this refer to the STO way of existence?

I think that is the general gist of it.

teeeg said:
11. The higher beings are connected to the others by analogy, not by composition.
Who are the others? Other higher beings? Would being connected by analogy mean that they are similar in their higher being-ness, but are otherwise not alike?

That seems correct. Godel wrote in #4: "There are other worlds and rational beings of a different and higher kind." So it seems that 'others' is referencing other higher beings and other worlds. Analogies seem useful in seeing patterns that exist at varying levels of experience, so that also seems a reason why analogies may at times be useful.


teeeg said:
13. There is a scientific (exact) philosophy and theology, which deals with concepts of the highest abstractness; and this is also most highly fruitful for science.
Is this referring to mainstream science? How precisely does this science of the highest abstractness benefit "normal" science?
[/quote]

It would seem to me that esoteric science is more able to deal with 'concepts of the highest abstractness' rather than mainstream science. If there is a science that can connect with the higher, to be able to consciously act, then it would actually create a normal science, which we're lacking.
 

Cosmos

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
10. Materialism is false.

How can you say that materialism is false ? As I understand it, it is just another way of existence (STS). without STS, STO could not exist and reverse.
wouldn't it be better to say "Materialism is an illusion" or "Materialism is not our way"?
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Pashalis said:
10. Materialism is false.

How can you say that materialism is false ? As I understand it, it is just another way of existence (STS). without STS, STO could not exist and reverse.
wouldn't it be better to say "Materialism is an illusion" or "Materialism is not our way"?

I think that the statement "materialism is false" means that it is not true that consciousness is just an accidental product of matter, or that consciousness cannot exist independently from matter, as many of our current scientists would claim.

What we believe is that consciousness is at the heart of creation - or it is at least just as essential as matter itself. Matter can be thought of as consciousness that went to 'sleep', i.e. consciousness that denied itself.
 

Mrs.Tigersoap

The Living Force
Pashalis said:
How can you say that materialism is false ? As I understand it, it is just another way of existence (STS). without STS, STO could not exist and reverse.
wouldn't it be better to say "Materialism is an illusion" or "Materialism is not our way"?

'Materialism is an illusion' is, to me, a typically Buddhist affirmation. It is often uttered by Zen teachers, the Dalai Lama, etc. By that they mean that we tend to get caught in what we perceive to be our reality, but that we are spiritual beings first and foremost. They think that we can become this 'spiritual being' here and now, and that anybody can do it, just as if 3D was a mere detail.

Whereas to me 'materialism is false' means that this idea which has been put forward by scientists that nothing exists except matter, means in fact that there is way more than matter and that in that respect, science is wrong.

So to me, 'materialism is an illusion' is a limited concept whereas 'materialism is false' reflects what we are trying to research on this forum. It is at least how I understand both sentences.
 

Human

The Living Force
Need a little help with:

3. There are systematic methods for the solution of all problems (also art, etc.).

Maybe it's nitpicking but what does "also art" refer to?
That there are systematic methods also for the art, that art is one of systematic methods for solving all problems, that there are systematic methods for the solution of art (in which case what would solution of art mean?) or something else?
My understanding is the first one but not sure if it's correct.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
Sasa said:
Need a little help with:

3. There are systematic methods for the solution of all problems (also art, etc.).

Maybe it's nitpicking but what does "also art" refer to?

Maybe Gurdjieff's description of "objective art" could be relevant?

[quote author=ISOTM]
"In real art there is nothing accidental. It is mathematics. Everything in it can be calculated, everything can be known beforehand. The artist knows and understands what he wants to convey and his work cannot produce one impression on one man and another impression on another,presuming, of course, people on one level. It will always, and with mathematical certainty, produce one and the same impression.
"At the same time the same work of art will produce different impressions on people of different levels. And people of lower levels will never receive from it what people of higher levels receive. This is real, objective art. Imagine some scientific work—a book on astronomy or chemistry. It is impossible that one person should understand it in one way and another in another way. Everyone who is sufficiently prepared and who is able to read this book will understand what the author means, and precisely as the author means it. An objective work of art is just such a book, except that it affects the emotional and not only the intellectual side of man."

"Do such works of objective art exist at the present day?" I asked.

"Of course they exist," answered G. "The great Sphinx in Egypt is such a work of art, as well as some historically known works of architecture, certain statues of gods, and many other things. There are figures of gods and of various mythological beings that can be read like books, only not with the mind but with the emotions, provided they are sufficiently developed. In the course of our travels in Central Asia we found, in the desert at the foot of the Hindu Kush, a strange figure which we thought at first was some ancient god or devil. At first it produced upon us simply the impression of being a curiosity. But after a while we began to feel that this figure contained many things, a big, complete, and complex system of cosmology. And slowly, step by step, we began to decipher this system. It was in the body of the figure, in its legs, in its arms, in its head, in its eyes, in its ears; everywhere. In the whole statue there was nothing accidental, nothing without meaning. And gradually we understood the aim of the people who built this statue. We began to feel their thoughts, their feelings. Some of us thought that we saw their faces, heard their voices. At all events, we grasped the meaning of what they wanted to convey to us across thousands of years, and not only the meaning, but all the feelings and the emotions connected with it as well. That indeed was art!"
[/quote]
 

Search

Jedi Council Member
I want to ask one question about FOTCM: 6.7. On PaleoChristian Rights.
the question is: will I be dissmised from obligatory military service in my country(Ukraine)?
In our country every man from 18-25 must complete military service wich lasts 1 year.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Serg said:
I want to ask one question about FOTCM: 6.7. On PaleoChristian Rights.
the question is: will I be dissmised from obligatory military service in my country(Ukraine)?
In our country every man from 18-25 must complete military service wich lasts 1 year.

No because FOTCM is not a legally recognized religion in Ukraine.

Question for you: are there any religious exemptions from military service in Ukraine at all, in respect of ANY other religion?
 

Search

Jedi Council Member
Laura said:
No because FOTCM is not a legally recognized religion in Ukraine.

Question for you: are there any religious exemptions from military service in Ukraine at all, in respect of ANY other religion?

Yes, there are few (I think 8 ). One of my friends belong to one of them.
According to their beliefes their people don't allowed to carry a gun (to hold a gun).
I found in the web one article that such people must complete some alternative to militarery service.
But my friend didn't say anything about it, I'll ask him about it.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Serg said:
Laura said:
No because FOTCM is not a legally recognized religion in Ukraine.

Question for you: are there any religious exemptions from military service in Ukraine at all, in respect of ANY other religion?

Yes, there are few (I think 8 ). One of my friends belong to one of them.
According to their beliefes their people don't allowed to carry a gun (to hold a gun).
I found in the web one article that such people must complete some alternative to militarery service.
But my friend didn't say anything about it, I'll ask him about it.

You might suddenly find yourself in agreement with their beliefs, yes?
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Serg said:
Laura said:
You might suddenly find yourself in agreement with their beliefs, yes?

No, and I don't want to. :)

Maybe Laura was subtly suggesting you to consider taking advantage of these exemptions in the law in order to exchange the military service for something more benign... Or maybe she wasn't. ;)
 
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