Franz Bardon

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
I was wondering if anybody was familiar with Franz Bardon. I very much like to know what you think of him and his work and specifically about his book "Initiation Into Hermetics"

Here are some links:

http://www.skyenergyportal.com/franz-bardon/english/bardon.htm

http://de.geocities.com/franz_bardon_seiten/index.html

http://www.lava.net/~pagios/

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6243/rueggebe.html#reincar
 

Laura

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Hi,
I had a quick look at Bardon's page and got the clue in the first paragraph of Problems in the Study of Magic, Pt. 1 (which I selected at random) where he says:

"...rather than engaging in a life long discipline that engenders encounters with power and profound mystery."

I think that anyone really interested in "magic" ought to first learn the history of the work from which the practices that we today call magic emerged: Hermeticism. One might then have an altogether different "take" on it. As I wrote in the thread on Alchemy:

"Years ago I read most of the original Hermetic texts that had been translated into English. This wasn't very satisfying because it was all mostly what seemed to be gobbeldygook. And sure, there's a hustler around every corner who is going to try to convince you that HE and he alone, can interpret this for you if you will just give him your faith (and probably some money, too). "

Bardon reads like just such an "expert."

Allow me to recommend several books that will give background to the subject: Frances A. Yates has written a very good book entitled "Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition." (University of Chicago Press). Then: "Gnosis and Hermeticism From Antiquity to Modern Times" edited by Roelof van Den Broek and Wouter J. Hanegraaff. (SUNY) Then: "The Egyptian Hermes: A historical approach to the late pagan mind" by Garth Fowden. (Princeton) Then "Hermetica: The Greek Corpus Hermeticum and the Latin Asclepius in a new English translation" by Brian Copenhaver. (Cambridge) and also Frances Yates "The Occult Philosophy in the Elizabethan Age." (Routledge)

My general impression at this point is pretty much as I wrote in Secret History: there is a definite single origin for ancient Siberian Shamanism, Esoteric Christianity, Gnosticism, Alchemy and some Hermetica. You have to read all of this to really begin to be able to weed out the glosses and distortions and see the golden threads that can be picked out of the fabric of either deliberate obfuscation or ignorance. (mostly ignorance.) And it is from ignorance that "magic" was born.

For example: many alchemists make much of Paracelsus. I don't think much of him at all. He was a puffer, as Fulcanelli would have said. The evidence is clear in his attitude toward women. No true Hermeticist can BE one without displaying the corresponding understanding of the feminine creative role and capabilities.

Work on the self is very important. Indeed, Bardon discusses that. The difference is the INTENT. He works on the self to gain power and have experiences of "profound mystery." Well, sure, there IS profound mystery, but that is a roadsign, not the destination.

As the Sufis point out, a true Shaykh does have "power," but he neither sought it nor does he use it because it would be a discourtesy to Creation.

Laura
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
Thanks Laura,

Your book recommendations are extremely appreciated and I will most certainly look into those.

But what you read as ”the first paragraph of Problems in the Study of Magic, Pt. 1” is not by Bardon who died half a century ago but by William Mistele who’s web-site you looked at.

You said: “I think that anyone really interested in "magic" ought to first learn the history of the work from which the practices that we today call magic emerged: Hermeticism.”

I agree. That is why I was wondering if anybody was actually familiar with Bardon’s specific book: "Initiation Into Hermetics" and it’s exercises.

As I posted under the thread on “Self-Observation, Inner Talking & Work Instrument”, I seek understanding towards the validity of his exercise which have to do a lot with self analysis:

“Even though his (Bardon’s) writing superficially glanced at, seem to advocate magic (trying to change things through higher dimensions by ritual behavior in the 3rd dimension) but looking at them in detail one notices that his required exercises are all about self-observation, which can lead to inner change, which can lead to change of the higher dimensional-self, which then can lead to change again in the 3rd density reality around us. That is why I am so interested in other peoples take on good old Franz”

I do get your point about INTENT though. I guess Intent is the bottom line in any case and thanks for focusing me into that direction.

Regarding INTENT: Bardon in his introduction to the original German 4th edition of “Der Weg zum wahren Adepten” ("Initiation Into Hermetics") says:

„Wer in dem vorliegenden Werk etwa nur eine Sammlung von Rezepten zu finden glaubt, an Hand welcher er leicht und mühelos zu Ehren und Ruhm, Reichtum und Macht gelangen kann oder die Vernichtung seiner Feinde suchen wollte, dem kann von vornherein gesagt werden, dass er dieses Buch enttauescht beiseite legen wird.“

„The one who thinks to find in the presented book a collection of recipes that one can use to achieve easy and effortless fame, fortune and power or who is looking for the destruction of his enemies, be told that he/she will put the book down disappointed.“ (My translation)

It seemed to me that by putting this book out as a ‘self help guide’ in 1958 his Intent might have actually been STO. Regarding your comment about

“….Paracelsus. I don't think much of him at all. He was a puffer, as Fulcanelli would have said. The evidence is clear in his attitude toward women.”

I’d like to point out that Bardon dedicated his above-mentioned book to his friend, co-worker and student - a woman.

As background information: Some of Bardon’s students where put into concentration camps under the Nazis and tortured. Hitler offered Bardon very high positions in the Reich if he would collaborate but Bardon declined which also lead to horrible torture on him including surgery without anesthesia. Later in 1958 he was again arrested in Czechoslovakia and it was also the year he died, nobody knows how. At that time he was able to cure second degree Cancer (with his self-made medicine produced with the help of alchemy) that created envy among the classical medical community that couldn’t match his results with radiation treatments.

He seems to be little known.
 

Laura

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Perhaps it would be more helpful to post actual excerpts from Bardon so that they can be read, referred to, and discussed? I will admit that I rely on many others to bring pertinent material to my attention. I already work 16 hour days, every day with few breaks, just to keep up with the research, the websites, QFG, and now, this forum. I will also mention that I am very fond of Karl von Eckhartshausen even though some people accuse him of being "Illuminati." I don't agree. Yes, he wrote "Principles of Higher Magic," but it is not "magic" as many people think of it. It is more like "the work." Obviously, William Mistele didn't get it if he is the author of the pages you linked.
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
Laura said:
Perhaps it would be more helpful to post actual excerpts from Bardon so that they can be read, referred to, and discussed?
I know! I haven’t found his material on-line yet in order to cut and past. I only have one hard copy and it is – you guessed it – in German.

I totally understand you personal time limitation to look into every book in existents (even though it seems you already did), that is why I was hoping for some “community” input.

However with your references I have plenty to look up myself now. Thank you.
 
S

samvado

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I may be a bit late to comment on this.
Being German has the advantage of reading Bardon in his own language. in 1980 and 81 I purchased and read all 3 of Bardons books. At that time I had little experience and background to make anything of it and just tried a few of the techniques of his first book without any results. Much later in 2005 I again started to read his first book "Der Weg zum wahren Adepten" (the path to be a true adept) and found it quite superficial and not very convincing at all. I then enganged in extensive internet search for secondary sources on him and long story short - most of his "histroy" seems fake or greatly exaggerated. There are also stories about diseases and behavior that IMHO would not befit any high adept. Unfortunately I have not kept records of my findings so I can only give a rather colored and sort of emotional account (the impression I kept wihtout remembering the facts). It is however a proven fact that he started his career as a stage magician. An kinesiological test of his work gives 22% truthfulness overall with less in the 2nd and 3rd books.
 
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samvado

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It is the widespread muscle testing calibrated for truthfulness of any asumption.
one could rightfull say its not exactly scientific - I myself see it as helpful and indicative requiring further research to verify whatever the finding may be. however - in case of Bardon it was just done to further test my opinion on his books.
 
A

aristar

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Hello to all
To Samvado, I just want to remind you that: In Franz Bardon's book: CIVIM, the exercices and degrees are meant to be followed one by one. You are not allowed to pursue on the next ones until the previous are done. I did follow the degrees and I can certainly confirm that it made a big difference in my character. Now, I know the constitution of a person (the elements), and I can help people a lot better than before. M. Bardon was not a fake, he was genuine and he prooved it by this book. But you have to do the exercices before you say that it does not work.
 
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samvado

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aristar, I did.
Of course if you you engange your consciousness with any activity it will be raised somewhat.
Bardons exercises IMO have no foundation as in yoga or pranajam or tantra or whatever tradition. he made them up. they dont work as advertised although they do "something". I stick to my opinion that Bardon was a fraud. I checked on him quite thorouly believe me - and i did his stuff (for a while). You probably could come up with better exercises yourself if you took the time to create them.
bardon is extremely dangerous because he is alluring to the beginners mind (and I don't mean the ZEN interpretation of that).
one of the major lessons here is IMO to develope your discrimination. you will find that bardon is helpful in that respect.
 

Laura

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FifthWay said:
What I did find though is this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188592 ... p;n=283155

I don’t think I have ever seen 40 five star reviews out of 41 ever, if that means anything?
What it might mean is that it is being deliberately hyped with "clappers" and the Greek choruse a la cointelpro.
 

Fifth Way

Jedi Council Member
Laura said:
FifthWay said:
What I did find though is this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188592 ... p;n=283155

I don’t think I have ever seen 40 five star reviews out of 41 ever, if that means anything?
What it might mean is that it is being deliberately hyped with "clappers" and the Greek choruse a la cointelpro.
I find that improbable. Even though, if I remember correctly, I was the one who threw into the discussion the by now notorious "you can't be paranoid enough" quote (from the move Strange Days), I think to call the Amazon reviews COINTELPRO is a little far out.
I mean, the guy was internationally not much known and until now, nobody from the Forum even new anything about him. The Amazon thing would be a little overkill for COINTELPRO - no?

I find the exercises demand a lot of self-discipline and are kind of hard to follow through in normal every day life. My take is that he was a member of some secret society and learned the stuff there but then following an genuine STO impulse broke the secrecy and decided to make his knowledge available for anybody who was searching.

If you are not successful in the exercises it is of course easier to call the master a fraud rather than yourself a failure.

Of cause I could be wrong, since it is aparent, even from his few posts, that samvado read all the right books and tried out everything, so it must be true.
 
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aristar

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Just like Fifth Way said:

I find the exercises demand a lot of self-discipline and are kind of hard to follow through in normal every day life. My take is that he was a member of some secret society and learned the stuff there but then following an genuine STO impulse broke the secrecy and decided to make his knowledge available for anybody who was searching.

If you are not successful in the exercises it is of course easier to call the master a fraud rather than yourself a failure.
 
S

samvado

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Do not forget that he is primarily active in the German language area of the world. A lot of stuff form there has "per se" validity in the eyes of the ignorant. German and Indian are the two most blindly respected sources. He has an US-american offspring but if you look into that guy you'll see the pathetic structure even clearer (he's a complete nerd). I wouldnt agree with Laura that the posititive Amazon feedbacks are cointelpro - I think they are just from all those who have read but not sufficiently investigated his works. as I said - it's all out there and when I did the background I wasnt thinking I would ever have to tell someone else about it - it wont happen again. Dont forget that the esoteric realm is the one with the most followers (aka no-judging-believers) and the least number of people ready for critical thinking. I should know, I have been burned by my piscean "I want to believe" structure myself. Also: It is the mix that makes the attraction, his stuff is his invention imo BUT its not alltogether stupid, it does something (albeit not whats advertised). Now if you feel something you tend to think "more is to come" and blame lack of further success on yourself and not "the master frabato" he's posing as. Dont take my word for it - I suggest those who are still interested in his work do the homework I have done and find out for themselves - it is not that hard.
 
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