free will and intervention

[Ripred]

I have a question about free will with respect to violent crimes and intervention.

In discussions with the C's on the topic of free will, Laura asks about a situation where if someone is murdered, would it be interfering with free will if one stepped in to prevent the crime. The C's answer was, (I believe) yes, it would go against the free will rule and that the victim was meant to check out at that time.

Wave 4 has this quote from Laura writing a member back about Diana's death... "What is decided at “higher levels” can manifest in many ways at this level. The bottom line is: nobody dies unless they have reached a “check-out” point in their “life blueprint.” Whether they agree at some level to participate in an event that leads them down a path to being murdered or otherwise …"

This is a hard subject and I think it is fair to say that the reaction for most caring people would be to intervene and prevent the crime.

How do we relate this to things like school rampages? I can't really think all these 5 year olds were at their "check out" time and intervention would clearly be the only path to take, if one had the ability to intervene.

So my question is, are there random factors that ever play into things, things that weren't meant to be? And what are the views on free will and intervention in the case of a crime like this?

Thank you.

 

[Buddy]

This is a hard subject and I think it is fair to say that the reaction for most caring people would be to intervene and prevent the crime.

You may be looking at an esoteric reality from a conventional viewpoint. Imagine for a moment this question concerns only you and what you should do in a situation where an intervention may be possible. What do you think you would or should do and why? Have you ever been in a situation like that? If not, do you wonder why not?

For me personally, all I can say ATM is that I know I'd feel an impulse to do something, but I probably won't know what until an actual situation happens, and, as it happens, I can live with that. I would also be wondering why a situation like that is only now coming to my attention?

Sorry if that's not very helpful, but I think I can make no better answer for you right now. Good question though. :)

 

[ajseph 21]

Well from what I remember the C's have said that it is the soul that counts not the body. From a higher perspective this must be taken into consideration because we honestly don't know how things truly are. But maybe its not so easy sometimes because if someone asks for help then it's no longer free will violation is it? It's difficult I know and in the end trying to stop karma could be playing God and we can't (or should I say shouldn't) place ourselves on that level. In the end it could be STS because you want to take control or it could be empathy because you truly care for them. And what of the law of Accident and the law of exception? There really are alot of variables and since everthing that happens are lessons I don't think it's random.

 

[Carl]

I think it's also important to not consider ourselves separate from the events that happen. We play a part just like everybody else.

Consider a hypothetical situation, where you are in a school and a lone gunman comes in and opens fire. For some reason you're carrying a loaded gun, and with a great act of courage you kill the gunman before he can destroy any more lives. If the souls of these children had really decided to 'check out' at this point, they surely would have considered that you would be in the building. But if there is really such thing as free will, could they have known whether you would have chosen to run and hide, or stand up for their lives? Or maybe you would miss?

And what of the idea of infinite multiple universes, and futures that are all open and possible? And while we live mechanically, being unable to initiate acausal events, do we really make a choice? Or is that choice already made on a certain level, and we're just here to understand why?

In short, we can wrestle with a problem like this with our tiny linear minds until the end of 'time' (which, of course, doesn't even exist), or we can Work to get to know our inner nature, and act on that in every situation that confronts us.

 

[Ripred]

Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful comments on this.

One teacher hid them and was killed but her students survived. She was put in that situation and acted. Living in this reality, I guess we still have our linear right and wrong about things, not able to consider multiple universes etc in the heat of the moment, and will act accordingly at the time. She did the only thing and the right thing in the reality she is hooked into and to have been considering other options would have been unconscionable. Free will or no free will, she could not have acted otherwise. If told about free will violation and learning about the true nature of reality etc, I bet she would not change her choice.

Very good point about why a person has not been put into that situation where the decision has to be made. Why indeed. I have had a smaller scale intervention where a third party wanted to harm another, acted as intermediary between the two, and talked the n’er do well out of the deed upon which they were intent.

So we make our choices while we learn and our choices change as we learn and sometimes we just have to act in accordance with what appears to be the right thing to do at the moment.

 

[electrosonic]

I think it's also important to not consider ourselves separate from the events that happen. We play a part just like everybody else.

Consider a hypothetical situation, where you are in a school and a lone gunman comes in and opens fire. For some reason you're carrying a loaded gun, and with a great act of courage you kill the gunman before he can destroy any more lives. If the souls of these children had really decided to 'check out' at this point, they surely would have considered that you would be in the building. But if there is really such thing as free will, could they have known whether you would have chosen to run and hide, or stand up for their lives? Or maybe you would miss?

I think Carl's hit the nail on the head here - if we go around life not getting involved in ANYTHING, purely out of fear of interfering in someone else's free will, we'll have lived a wasted life with zero growth. And like Carl says, how do we know that your intervention hasn't already been factored in, and in fact, by NOT interfering you've infringed their free will? (if in fact your input into the situation was beneficial).

This is by far one of the hardest questions in life. Maybe if you should try to do everything with an STO minded orientation, & leave the outcome to worry about itself? (i.e don't try to foresee the outcome of anything, as this is STS wishful thinking in itself - have no expectations!) :)