Germ Theory vs Terrain Theory / Pleomorphism / Béchamp, Rife, Naessens, Reich

Joe

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This might help to explain why they have difficulty accepting any evidence which is based on complex modelling and more abstract methods.

In a similar way to an insistence by flat-earthers that the earth is flat because it LOOKS flat from the visual perception of the human eye, the no-virus folks deny the existence of viruses because they cannot directly purify, isolate, and visualize them. They are absolutely bound to materialist methods and interpretations of the data. If we consider that some of them might be OPs, then it would make sense that they may not actually have the capacity to think of it in any other way.

Seems to me that a good ability to grasp abstract concepts requires a good ability to think outside of our own 'box', i.e. less subjective and more objective. In this respect, animals are rather 'self-centered' compared to humans as a function of their perceptive abilities. The less you are able to perceive, the more you are required to rely on what something seems like/means/feels to you rather than what it actually IS. So yeah, maybe we're talking about a fundamental inability here.
 
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aragorn

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I just saw a short clip on Twitter which shows that Michael Yeadon seems to have been to some degree convinced by the ideas of Kaufman, Cowan et al. To be fair, he doesn't explicitly say that "no viruses exist" but still, he says (transcript, at ca 1:00min):

"Over time, I could no longer maintain my understanding of respiratory viruses as I thought I knew them. And then, I learned a new bit of information recently, and it was just...it collapsed...the possibility that respiratory viruses as described exist at all, they don't. People do get ill, people are ill... [fast forward]...it's just we don't know what causes them, and they're not respiratory viruses."

Even though Yeadon has been an important voice in the battle against the Covid tyrants I've always found him to 'run with' ideas too quickly without proper evidence. There's a certain element of hysteria, or paranoia in his appearance that gives the impression that he's not 100% in balance.

That is not to say that 'there's nothing there' in what he's saying. Certainly, as we've discussed here at length, there's a lot that we don't understand about viruses, illness, transmission etc. However, it appears that Yeadon is perhaps 'jumping the gun' (again) and going too far by being convinced by these people.

 

luc

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Even though Yeadon has been an important voice in the battle against the Covid tyrants I've always found him to 'run with' ideas too quickly without proper evidence. There's a certain element of hysteria, or paranoia in his appearance that gives the impression that he's not 100% in balance.

Agreed, he always struck me as someone who was red-pilled a bit too fast and couldn't really handle it. I remember he went pretty wild with the "they want to kill us all" thing etc.

As I've said before, to remain clear-headed in the face of the no-virus thing is no easy feat, you must be very balanced, grounded, have a grip on your own thoughts and emotions, and must have thought about deeper philosophical questions to a degree. Otherwise, especially cognitively intelligent people can fall pretty quickly for it.

It's a bit like the philosophical skeptics who concluded that "nothing exists" or "there is no truth" based entirely on logical and "convincing" arguments. Convincing to the left hemisphere, that is. Once you widen and deepen your perspective, such ideas just seem ridiculous.
 

Chu

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Just a thought from this morning: For those who got derailed by this extra layer of "conspiracy" and "no-virus", it would be useful to read this thread, I think, and Damasio's book in its entirety. When you understand how even your emotions can be a product of bacteria and biological processes you are unaware of, you sure start trusting your "insights" and emotions less. And that pushes you to work on perceiving more and better.

Damasio explains it well, and I think that what applies to bacteria might very well apply to viruses too. It's very humbling to see how microorganisms can sometimes be "smarter" than us humans. And it's useful to keep that in mind when trying to understand microorganisms!
 

MK Scarlett

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I would like to add something to the discussion, and I hope not to digress too much doing so.

Michael Yeadon said:
"People do get ill, people are ill... [fast forward]...it's just we don't know what causes them, and they're not respiratory viruses."

I do not take his words for granted, but let's try to assume that he might be, possibly, right -or half right-, in some way... [See "Short teaser about the flu" below, to get why I write this.]

Maybe we could look elsewhere, or at least open a door that could shed light on some aspects that have not yet been really discussed in this thread, not to mention they are not really understood or studied at this point.
I recall I shared in this thread a comment back in August 2020 about Kruse's POV on electricity, plasma, Birkeland filaments, bacteria, cells and mitochondria. An idea of electric components to this thread, on which I come back today, wondering a lot.

From the last session:

Q: (Chu) There's a discussion on the "No Virus" thread and Mandatory Intellectomy wanted to ask questions about it.

(Joe) How correct are scientists' ideas about viruses?

A: Close enough though there is a lot they do not know including the fact that a virus is a transdensity structure.

Q: (Joe) Do viruses come from outside of the human body or from inside?

A: Both.

Q: (Joe) So the body can also make them?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) Are they infectious?

A: Depending on the specific virus. Mostly, yes.

"There is a lot they do not know... including... the transdensity structure". I would have welcome further questions about what's in this "a lot".

Speculation ahead: Viruses exist (well, I do not think existence of viruses is speculation, it is what comes next that is), they are transdensity structures, and maybe there is a context where they can express (both outside and inside living bodies...) in an unknown to us specific way (devolution, evolution... maybe). What if this context requires a huge amount of electro-magnetism added by the cosmic cycle of comets (including their viruses which are a priori information) with quantities and effects (of pure inform-ation) unknown to us, a natural quantity that would be nowadays further aggravated (for most) by the huge impregnation on Earth (at large, aka terrestrial, atmospheric and oceanic) of the anthropogenic electro-magnetism? Could this "inform-ation" be twisted by this anthropogenic electro-magnetism, kind of mal-informed so to speak? 🤔

In the Speculation on Laura's new book- Horns of Moses thread, @benkostka wrote a comment about the Arthur Firstenberg’s book The Invisible Rainbow - A History of Electricity and Life [anthropogenic electricity]. Other comments have been made about in the EMF Exposure thread. I had this book in my list to read, so I bought it on July.

I now have finished it, and I repeat what I've already wrote: It is fascinating. Since some of you may not have read it (it has been published in French, Spanish, German and Italian (at least, I've found those four), and since there is an informative summary (available in French HERE), I copied the whole in Deepl to translate it in English and I've made a Pdf available for anyone who want to read it (uploaded at the end of the post). At first, I thought I could copy the whole here, but this post is long enough (sorry about that). I have copy-paste the two extracts I've already shared in another thread, and added another short one (below the "Short teaser about the flu").

But first, let's go to the presentation benkostka made about his reading of the book:

It’s worth reading for the dangers associated with electricity and gives the history of experimentation in our time starting with the telegraph up to our current experiments with 5G.

A couple things that were interesting and perhaps the biggest take away is that all the electricity and EMF on the globe is slowly killing all life, birds, bees, insects, trees and of course humans are all negatively impacted by the excessive EMF in our atmosphere.

He’s got lots of historical documentation where forests started dying after radars were placed near them during the Cold War and then returned to life after they were turned off. Other information like all the bees dying on the Isle of Wight after Marconi set up some of his first experiments also really bring home the negative cascades of our collective decisions to the 1D and 2D species. How can forests cycle nutrients without insects?

There’s also many insights to be made about the nature of certain chronic health problems where too much EMF can exacerbate things. So another thing to think about along with diet. It’s a relatively fast read, about 250 pages with another hundred or so pages of citations for anyone who wants to dig deeper.

Note that the 5G is just the umpteenth layer on top of all the others already active (and soon maybe the 6G and many other things). Also, I don't believe that 5G matters in particular in Covid assumptions read here and there. Rather, I believe that the whole anthropogenic electro-magnetism since its beginning tells a story that we should maybe not dismiss.

Now, about the author and his book from the French informative summary mentioned above:

About the Author:
Arthur Firstenberg is a scientist and journalist at the forefront of the demolition of the taboo concerning the harmlessness of electromagnetic fields on living beings. He graduated from Cornell University with a degree in mathematics and attended the University of California, Irvine School of Medicine, from 1978 to 1982, which he had to interrupt due to the after-effects of excessive x-ray exposure. Since then, he has been active as a researcher, consultant, author and speaker in the field of environmental effects of electromagnetic radiation.


About the book:
This remarkably well researched and referenced book is a cornerstone in the sense that it traces the deployment of electricity in our civilisation, in terms of its interaction with living material, from the very beginnings of its discovery in the 1750s, to the present day, including projections into the future. Note that the title refers to the entire electromagnetic spectrum, including the colours of the rainbow, but also all the invisible frequencies, such as radio frequency or the fields generated around conducting wires.

Short teaser about the flu (partly included in the Pdf):
The way he approachs the history of the Influenza (which means, "under the influence of stars"), first in last centuries (connected with Sun activity already back then), and second when electricity started to be used all around us, could shake up the deepest beliefs about what flu could be, including the possible reason why flu has become "seasonal/annual" while - according to the author - it was not before the introduction of electricity into our living environments.

And one (more) extract from the book itself about the influenza (p. 87 of the French version):

Since ancient times, influenza has been known as a capricious and unpredictable disease, a wild animal that came from nowhere, terrorised whole populations at once, without warning or agenda, and disappeared as suddenly and mysteriously as it arrived, not to be seen again for years or decades. It behaved like no other disease, was thought not to be contagious, and got its name because its comings and goings were said to be governed by the 'influenza' of the stars.

But in 1889, influenza was tamed. From that year on, it would be present every year, all over the world. It will mysteriously disappear as before, but we can count on its return, at about the same time, the following year. And it has never disappeared since.

I recall Didier Raoult (a French microbiologist who, on the basis of his practical work, defended the use of hydroxychloroquine to fight Covid-19, against the winds and tides of scientific doxa.) saying during CovidPandemic that nobody knows the mechanisms that makes seasonal a disease like influenza. "We do not know"... he said. This is a rare humility among scientists today.

While I was sharing what is above, I have re-read some parts of Thomas Forster's books I have at home, as he has a lot to say about his observations regarding cosmic/atmospheric electricity due to comets, and plagues. It happens that I've wrote two articles (in French) back in 2013 about the Forster's works:
In one of his books, he included what he called the "Comet Catalogue", a chronicle of all cosmic[comets]/atmospheric/disease events from 15 AD to 1843 AD. This catalogue is reproduced in the 2nd article above.

@Pierre does mention Thomas Forster too in Cometary Encounters (p. 166) from one of his book Illustrations of the atmospherical origin of epidemic disorders of health, regarding what Forster has to say about the correlation between cometary activity and volcanic activity (which is too correlated to electric activity).

In another of his books, Observations sur l'influence des comètes sur les phénomènes de l'atmosphère ("Observations on the influence of comets on atmospheric phenomena", this one have been published in French in 1836), Forster is keen "not to exclude the great influence of atmospheric electricity on all earthly bodies". Aka today, an atmospheric AND terrestrial/oceanic anthropogenic electricity/electromagnetism in which all living creatures are today immersed. He also said (in this book), and that is very interesting, conceptually speaking: "The meteors I saw coming down from the sky [...] had the appearance of electrical communications". He also links the approach of a comet to civil unrest in society. Pretty intriguing, related to the other Pierre's book Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic connection.

Now, if we add the natural electro-magnetism to the anthopogenic one, to which we add the one which is induced cyclically in a cosmic way (and we may be due to be in several of these cycles, starting by the 3,600 years cometary one), we may well reach a combination of potentially devastating effects (for most) on all living creatures. Does that make sense? 🤔

Back to the Firstenberg’s book, here is what I've wrote on last Monday in the Speculation on Laura's new book- Horns of Moses thread:
We are all electrical beings, all living things are electrical, in an electric Universe. The author asks questions and shares a large number of scientific studies applied to humans and some animals. Beyond the effect of anthropogenic electromagnetism (which has been superimposed in multiple layers for more than 150 years), I wonder what effect it might have on the parasites, bacteria and viruses that make up [compose] the entire animal and plant kingdoms... Im' not sure that studies of that kind have been made.

What is the real impact of this change on our health, on top of everything else (toxic environment other than electromagnetic, vaccines, junk food, etc.)?

Back to the influenza, I translated from the French informative summary what is following (from the part "Influenza is an electrical disease", Chapter VII of the book):

Acute electrical disease

In the 1880s, London was supplied with direct current, but some physicists had discovered that the distribution of alternating current generated fewer ohmic losses in the wires. A battle of the currents ensued, despite the fact that many scientists, including Edison, denounced the more dangerous effects of alternating current. Ironically, it is actually alternating current that is used in the electric chair, precisely because it is more harmful. Everyone knows that mains electricity is... alternating!

In 1889, large-scale electrification began in the United States and soon after in Europe. That same year, as if by chance, doctors were swamped with influenza patients, which until then had rarely appeared. The symptoms of the victims were much more neurological, like neurasthenia, excluding respiratory disorders. The pandemic lasted four years and killed at least one million people.

In 2001, Canadian astronomer Ken Tapping demonstrated that the last three centuries of influenza pandemics were correlated with peaks in solar magnetic activity on an eleven-year cycle. It has also been found that some flu epidemics spread over huge areas in just a few days, a fact that is difficult to explain by close-to-home contagion. Similarly, many experiments involving close-to-home contagion by contact, mucus spraying or other methods have proved unsuccessful.

In 1880s, there were several comets, including C/1882 R1, aka the Great Comet, considered the largest comet of the 19th century. See here Wikipédia for the 19th century (in French, sorry the English Wikipedia does not show the list and mention only the Great Comet).

So, maybe anthropogenic electro-magnetism at the time was not the only culprit as supposed by the author. That's what is fascinating: link the both (electro-magnetism induced by comets/cosmic rays/Sun activity) added to the anthropogenic one) and the book becomes even more interesting! This opens up a whole field of research that unfortunately has little chance of being conducted by mainstream science.

Hereafter are the two extracts of the informative summary mentioned above that I've already shared on the Forum (bolded parts are mine):
You say you can hear the electricity?

In 1962, a woman contacted the University of Santa Barbara (CA, USA) for help in finding the source of the mysterious sound she heard everywhere in her home, in a quiet neighbourhood. It was keeping her awake at night and affecting her health. Measurements showed that particularly strong electromagnetic fields were emanating from all the electrical conductors, both from the mains and from radiators and other metal elements, but the stethoscope remained silent. The engineer conducted an experiment, recording the measured fields on tape and playing them back to the woman affected by the noise. She confirmed that this is what she was hearing. So the woman could hear the electromagnetic fields in her environment. Earthing facilities and electronic filters were installed to reduce the disturbance to an acceptable level.

But before that, among other researchers, Volta had already successfully experimented with the production of various sounds by applying a voltage to the ears. Much later, also in the 1960s, the biologist Allan Frey published papers on the ability of certain subjects to hear the emissions of a radar installation.

The mechanical model of the ear as taught in schools could not explain these observed phenomena. Noting this, the biochemist Lionel Naftalin developed a new model for the functioning of the human ear, taking into account the phenomenon of piezoelectricity, well known and used by electronics specialists, which he discovered in the gel covering the cilia of the inner ear. In this gel found nowhere else in the human body and having very particular electrical properties, a voltage of 100 to 120 millivolts was present, which is a lot in the field of bio-electronics. This piezoelectric gel transforms sound waves into an electrical signal that is transmitted to the cilia of the inner ear. This new revised model of the functioning of the human ear then makes it possible to explain that not only certain subjects under certain conditions manage to hear an electromagnetic signal, but also that so many contemporary citizens suffer from tinnitus, or that certain groups of citizens hear the Hum, almost everywhere around the planet at a rate of 2 to 11% of the population.

Today, about 44% of American adults have tinnitus at various levels of intensity, while in Sweden the number of young people affected was 12% in 1997 and 42% in 2006! These noises are largely the result of an environment heavily polluted with artificial electromagnetic fields of all kinds.

The transformation of diabetes

Thomas Edison, who was involved in discoveries related to electrical technology and was therefore exposed to electromagnetic fields more than the rest of his fellow citizens at the time, was diagnosed with a very rare disease in 1882, diabetes. Another researcher, Graham Bell, who was active in the field of telegraphy and invented the telephone, was known to complain incessantly about his symptoms of neurasthenia, now called EHS. In 1915 he was also diagnosed with diabetes.

In 1876, the book Disease of Modern Times by Ward Richardson described diabetes as a rare modern disease, caused by exhaustion from mental work or shock to the nervous system.

Naturally, the excessive intake of toxic and addictive sugar in our modern diet has a lot to do with why diabetes, including pre-diabetes, affects more than half of all Americans today. But the explanation is simplistic.

Even Joslin showed that between 1900 and 1917, sugar intake increased by 17% while diabetes mortality doubled. Later, in 1987, a study of American Indians was conducted, showing radically different proportions of death by diabetes in different territories, ranging from 7 per thousand in the northwest to 380 per thousand in Arizona! During these years, neither lifestyle nor diet could justify such a difference. On the other hand, an environmental factor can explain such a difference. Indeed, the electrification of the Indian reservations was unevenly carried out and those of the northwest were electrified only much later. On the other hand, the Arizona reservation is located in the immediate vicinity of Phoenix. Moreover, this Indian community had its own electrical installation and telecommunication company.

Another example is the population of Brazil, a large sugar producer for centuries, which did not know about diabetes in 1870, although it was already emerging as a disease of civilisation in North America. Even today, Brazilians consume 70 kg of refined sugar per year per person, more than North Americans, and yet they have passed two and a half times fewer cases of diabetes than in the USA.

In Bhutan, diabetes was virtually non-existent until 2002, after electrification of the country began. In 2004, 634 new cases of diabetes were reported, in 2005 - 944, in - 2006 1,470, in 2007 - 2,540 with 15 deaths. In 2012 there were 91 deaths and diabetes was the eighth leading cause of death in the country, despite the fact that the diet had not changed!

The electronic smog acting on the mitochondria
, as we saw in the previous chapter, prevents the proper use of the sugar absorbed, i.e. the combustion of sugar. Since it cannot be converted into mechanical energy, the body stores it as fat.

The diagrams of the statistics on the number of deaths from diabetes according to the degree of electrification of the American states in 1931 and 1940 are also very explicit, leaving no doubt as to the involvement of electromagnetic fields in the appearance of diabetes on a large scale, exonerating the consumption of sugar, to a certain extent.

In 1997, there was a 31% increase in diabetes cases in the USA over one year. This corresponds exactly to the massive introduction of mobile phones in the USA.

I'll add what I wrote in the EMF Exposure thread:
"when the author began to talk about the Electric Universe, I just get even more excited."
"it opens [...] perspectives of understanding about electricity and electromagnetism on the very Life itself."

Now, I'm not an electrician, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a biologist (I'm curious and quite eager to understand all that is within my reach of understanding), but all three of these professions are represented by people who contribute to this thread.

I'd be very curious to know what you think of all the data compiled in this book, and how it is possible to possibly integrate it into a larger whole; Something that allows us -perhaps- to better understand a small part of the vast domain of viruses, bacteria, fungi and parasites that live or lie dormant inside and/or outside of us. Something that could led to answer -maybe- one of the "There is a lot they do not know" from the C's.

Attached is the Pdf of the informative summary translated in English.

PS: If your read this all along, you are very courageaous! :-P

PS2: Sorry @Chu, I work on this comment since early this morning, and I think that I ask questions more than I get derailed by this extra layer of "conspiracy" and "no-virus"; And I understand why you are writing this. Anyway, I've read half of the Damasio's book and stopped to read Marcel Proust at the very moment Damasio mentions his work on multidimensional feelings. So, since you encourage us to read it, again, I'm going to pursue the reading. :knitting:
 

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Now, I'm not an electrician, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a biologist (I'm curious and quite eager to understand all that is within my reach of understanding), but all three of these professions are represented by people who contribute to this thread.
This is what really gets me excited now too. We can finally start connecting all these things, for instance another scientist Elaine Ingham has studied soil biology for 40 years and can conclusively tell people that spreading certain types of compost on their lawns/gardens will KILL plants if the compost isn’t created in aerobic conditions. It’s the living biology of this planet and our microbiomes that keeps us all healthy and that’s backed up by solid science.

What effects does EMF have on soil biology? My guess is it shifts it toward the anerobic spectrum which means plants can no longer extract nutrients from the soil. Just our millions of “devices” like cell phones and computers create lots of dirty electricity which typically returns electrons through the Earth’s crust instead of the neutral wire. It’s exactly what the C’s mention, technology used to control with negative cascades.

I’m new to the forum and really haven’t absorbed enough of the information here to ask pointed questions to the C’s about Firstenberg’s book, but I certainly think it’s a topic that could shed more light on many of our chronic problems and they may be able to explain how viruses get activated from other densities through EM or get us a little closer.
 

aragorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I just noticed that Steve Kirsch has been posting a couple of articles on his Substack in which he debunks the no-virus 'challenge', and the crowd behind it, quite thoroughly. They're too long to quote here so I'll just post the links below (from newest to oldest).

  1. If viruses don't exist, then how can we see them?
  2. The very disingenuous "Settling the virus debate" challenge from Tom Cowan, Mark Bailey, Sam Bailey, Andrew Kaufman, Christine Massey, and others
  3. Rumble video of Patrick Gunnels admitting bacteriophages have been isolated (these are viruses)
  4. Sanger sequencing vs. NGS
  5. If you think the SARS-CoV-2 virus or virology is a hoax, READ THIS NOW
  6. Settling the virus debate challenge from Dr. Sam Bailey
  7. Does anyone want to debate “Does the virus exist?”
  8. Has the virus been isolated?
  9. Do you know why they NEVER want a live debate?
I've only skimmed through the latest two but he appears to have a good level-headed approach to all of this, and is not afraid to challenge the no-virus peeps (e.g. offering money to debate him publicly).
 

MK Scarlett

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I'm sharing here what I've shared in the Session 17 July 2021 thread, as it can be relevant or of interest for this discussion as well.

-------------------------------------------

[...] @Pierre talked in the Mass extinctions evolutionary leaps and the virus information connection thread about the Fritz-A.Popp's Biologie de la Lumière book. I bought it and read about half of it. It is a rather complicated reading to me, as the author is a physicist and concepts developed in this book, although they are "vulgarised", are not really within my reach.

But, I found something that could be, or at least I think so, very interesting about quartz (crystal) and photons.

Page 51, about Photons: Language of cells? part, here is what aroused my curiosity, and still does. The book being in French I used Deepl to translate it in English.

[in a study] under the title "Photons - the language of cells? [...] three Soviet scientists, S. Stschurin, V.P. Kaznachejev and L. Michailova, confirmed in more than 5,000 experiments that living cells transmit information by photons, and in particular by light in the ultraviolet band. This experiment can be described simply as follows:

"Cells in a nutrient solution live in two quartz balloons. The containers touch each other at the wall. One of the cell cultures is contaminated with a virus: almost at the same time, the cells of the adjacent colony also become ill. The same thing happens when the cells are destroyed by doses of ultraviolet light or poisoned by sublimate. The cells in the neighbouring container become ill each time and show the same symptoms, although they should be protected from the toxic influence of the other cells by the quartz container. It is only when normal glass is used instead of quartz that the cells of the second colony are spared the ills suffered by the first. Some disease information from the first colony must therefore pass through the quartz walls and not the glass walls to the second colony. It cannot be the chemicals or viruses introduced into the first culture. These were not found in the neighbouring culture..."

Here is the translated legend of the figure which represent the two small balloons mentioned in the book (figure which is not of very good quality the most relevant being this very legend of it):

"Two balloons with an ordinary glass or quartz window in the bottom are coupled together, window to window, by elastic straps. In each balloon are cell cultures of the same strain. When one of the two cultures is artificially contaminated with a virus, for example, after a certain period of time [but almost immediately], the symptoms of the disease can be found in the other culture if the windows are made of quartz.
When the windows are made of ordinary glass, no transfer takes place."

So, somehow, the quartz allows the symptoms of the virus to spread, without spreading the virus itself!

That's absolute mindblowing. I don't know exactly what this means in terms of disease spread, but I must admit that I am still trying to formulate the best possible question to ask the C's.

Indeed, the more we dig, the more fascinating and wondering it becomes.
 

Jefferson

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I appreciate it too, and I hope that MI doesn't think otherwise. The danger I see, though, is that on top of going in circles, by questioning one type of programming we can throw the baby our with the bathwater.

Science (materialism) asserts many things, and has programmed people big time. We are right to question them. But there are also good things about science.
Religion, on the other hand, instilled in people the idea that we shouldn't question anything (God). Wrong, but there are still good things about religion.

I'll try to explain: If we only look for tangible proof/isolation/etc., we are doing science, but we also run the risk of losing our capacity to be AWED. That's what I see a bit in this discussion. Why can't it be both? Viruses (or something akin to them, RNA chunks, etc) exist, and it's not as straight forward as science will have us believe, but their mechanisms are so complex, we can be at awe at the marvels of creation. The technology speaks of a level of knowledge we don't yet possess. We can (and should) ask many questions, but also staying realistically humble about our own ignorance and (for now) inability to understand certain phenomena. If we don't consider the "magic of creation" together with the "rigor of science", we run the risk of missing
I think it's a good idea to ask, and I've saved your questions. However, I'm not so sure that in this case their definition is very different from the scientific one.

I think with the perspiration done by the network, we can now with the highest probability take the inspiration from the 17 July 2022 C session and maintain that viruses do exist, transmission is real but we don't really fully understand it - particularly the transdensity / metaphysical nature of viruses. The answer to the question below reminds us to keep in awe and remain curious of "all creation". We also can see more of the unseen in terms of the likely nefarious and obviously materialist 'viruses don't exist' agenda either knowingly or unknowingly promoted by the Kaufman/Cowan/Lanka pied piper group.

Q: (Chu) There's a discussion on the "No Virus" thread and Mandatory Intellectomy wanted to ask questions about it.

(Joe) How correct are scientists' ideas about viruses?

A: Close enough though there is a lot they do not know including the fact that a virus is a transdensity structure.

Q: (Joe) Do viruses come from outside of the human body or from inside?

A: Both.

Q: (Joe) So the body can also make them?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) Are they infectious?

A: Depending on the specific virus. Mostly
 

Ketone Cop

Jedi Master
This is by far the best article I've read examining the "virus don't exist" vs. "viruses do exist" arguments. I'd go so far as to make it required reading!


‘The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.’
 

Jefferson

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
This is by far the best article I've read examining the "virus don't exist" vs. "viruses do exist" arguments. I'd go so far as to make it required reading!


‘The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.’
Very good article, thanks for sharing @Ketone Cop !

The author concludes the article, calling out to the vehement 'no-virus' proponents and promoters:

I must also offer a word of caution: while those encouraging virus denial may be basking in the notion that they have just given the millions out there a good reason to say ‘no’ to genetic vaccines and antivirals about which they sense a problem, they should also contemplate the impact of a change of mind (or heart). A change that might occur if they struggle to take on board the idea that 100% of the morbidity and mortality that has been associated with COVID-19 over these last 3 years had nothing at all to do with any virus. What is the evidence of it being caused entirely by a catalogue of non-viral agents, from 5G, masks and stress, to bad diets, lack of physical activity and chemtrails? Try that one on for size given the available data.

The more we get diverted by sideline scuffles that divert our focus to irreconcilable differences in view, the less energy we get to apply to the gamut of areas over which our views are aligned. Also, the less likely we are to help co-create a future we might consider fit for future generations.

Let’s get this one put to bed sooner rather than later – and re-unite our movement based on the multitude of issues we do agree on. Let’s forge ahead with the extraordinarily ambitious task of re-building a world that respects and values humanity, human dignity and freedom, as well as nature. And one that tolerates and respects differences in opinion or perspective.

But let’s not forget for one minute Doug Altman and Mark Bland’s catch cry, ‘The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
 

Jefferson

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It looks like the divisiveness is ramping up with a hashtag teamnovirus all set up. On this site they've even singled out people and organisations on a "naughty list" (below in the quote) who are against the jabs and all for health freedom but still think there is validity to the concept we know and call viruses. They also derived a "good list" with all the no-virus crank names. The PTB must be grinning now as discord is happening between those concerned with health sovereignty.

This is more evidence of the Lanka/Kaufman/Cowan crowd being pied pipers leading people down a dead end. It can be seen how many no-virusers are putting the Lanka crew on a pedestal, calling them "pioneers" who are "leading the way" out of germ theory - yeah, leading a bunch of people off a cliff like pied pipers do.

Virus pushers against clot shots
Virus Pushers Against Clotshots

virus%20pushers%20doom%20monster%20fireballs
This list is the Hall of Shame.
There is nothing good about being included here.

Maintaining this list brings me NO JOY.
It makes me ill to maintain it.
My goal is not to defame these people.
My goal is to Find Evidence Sufficient to REMOVE THEM from this list. Evidence demonstrating that they follow the truth, practice good science including performing control experiments and validation procedures, and using sound methods, follow good sound logic, reason, and epistemology,
and examine all of the evidence on this single question (or lack thereof), and to have the courage to challenge their own assumptions, biases, preferences, prejudices, and deeply held beliefs. I want to find public statements from these people such that I can remove them from the Naughty List, and put them securely on the list of Truth and Reason.
For any attorney or medical professionals fighting various Countermeasures (mandates, passports, vaccines, lockdowns, etc) it BEHOOVES YOU to examine this question carefully, because if #TeamNoVirus is correct, this is the KILL SHOT for the entire narrative.
This page is a wiki! Feel free to edit.
Contact: changetheframe@protonmail.com for help
REMOVAL LIST!
This is the best list of all. These are people who were on the Naughty List, but have chosen to FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, Follow Good Logic and Reason, and have the BRAVERY to challenge their own knowledge, assumptions, and deeply held beliefs, and have ADMITTED that the proof of SARS-CoV-2 is grossly deficient, and possibly fraudulent.
Please give these people APPLAUSE and PRAISE!
  • Delores Cahill REASON [1][2]
  • Michael Yeadon REASON: Support for Tom Cowan's "Settling the Virus Debate" test verification proposal (soon to be widely announced).
The Naughty List
  • Paul Alexander
  • V.A. Shiva Ayyadurai
  • Bryan Ardis
  • Richard Bartlett
  • Robert Barnes
  • Sucharit Bhakdi
  • Alex Berenson
  • Keith Berkowitz
  • Jay Bhattacharya
  • Del Bigtree
  • Thomas Binder
  • Mary Talley Bowden
  • Russell Blaylock
  • Russell Brand
  • Peter Breggin
  • Byram Bridle
  • Derrick Broze REASON
  • Zach Bush (unique case: promotes "passenger virus" theory similar to Duesberg)
  • Helen Buyniski
  • John Campbell
  • Michael Caputo
  • Shankara Chetty
  • Ryan Cole
  • Vernon Coleman
  • David B Collum
  • Clare Craig
  • Ryan Cristian TLAV
  • Ivor Cummins
  • Johanna Deinert
  • Dan Dicks / Press for Truth
  • Jimmy Dore
  • Erin Elizabeth (Finn)
  • Richard Fleming
  • Viva Frei
  • Reiner Fuellmich
  • Monica Gandhi
  • Simone Gold
  • Jeff Green (Substack blogger) — (unique case: promotes "passenger virus" theory similar to Duesberg)
  • Sunetra Gupta
  • Jeremy R. Hammond
  • Sabine Hazan
  • Roger Hodkinson
  • Charles Hoffe
  • Mary Holland
  • Brian Hooker
  • Nick Hudson
  • Stella Immanuel
  • Kim Iversen
  • John Ioannidis
  • Craig Pasta Jardula
  • Jefferey Jaxxen
  • Scott Jensen
  • Ron Johnson
  • Alex Jones — REASON: Pushes the idea that the fictitious virus was from a "Lab Leak/Bioweapon"
  • Kulvinder Kaur
  • Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
  • Aaron Kheriaty
  • Steve Kirsch
  • Pierre Kory
  • Kyle Kulinski
  • Martin Kulldorff
  • Tess Lawrie
  • Michael Levitt
  • Carrie Madej
  • Marty Makary
  • Aseem Malhotra
  • Robert Malone
  • Paul Marik
  • Chris Martenson
  • David Martin
  • Chris Masterjohn
  • Alix Mayer
  • Philip McMillan
  • Kevin McCairn — Winner of the Exceptional Moron Award 🏆 for how he abused Dr. Mark Bailey during a "debate" moderated by Tim Truth. Couldn't argue his way out of a wet tissue. Sent an EXTREMELY VULGAR message to Christine Massey. This man is a menace. DERANGED and DANGEROUS
  • Lee Merritt (she is making positive improvements)
  • Peter McCullough
  • Kevin McKernan
  • Cynthia McKinney
  • Joseph Mercola
  • Judy Mikovits
  • Luc Montainger
  • George Monbiot
  • Daniel Nagase
  • Meryl Nass
  • Maajid Nawaz
  • Christiane Northrop
  • Gary Null
  • Neil Oliver
  • Larry Palevsky (unique case: promotes "passenger virus" theory similar to Duesberg)
  • Michael Palmer (Waterloo)
  • Christiana Parks
  • Rand Paul
  • Stew Peters
  • Jordan Peterson
  • Julie Ponesse
  • Pam Popper
  • Vinay Prasad
  • Hedley Rees
  • Tom Renz
  • Didier Raoult
  • Joe Rogan
  • Jessica Rose
  • Jane Ruby
  • Jeffrey Sachs
  • "Amazing" Polly St George
  • Stephanie Seneff
  • Nicole Sirotek
  • Spiro Skouras
  • Ben Tapper (not sure, guilt by association?)
  • Sherri Tenpenny
  • Laura-Lynn Tyler Thompson
  • Mark Trozzi
  • Richard Urso
  • Geert Vanden Bossche
  • Johnny Vedmore
  • Robert Verkerk
  • Elizabeth Lee Vliet
  • Andrew Wakefield
  • Whitney Webb
  • Christian Westbrook (Ice Age Farmer)
  • James Lyons-Weiler
  • Bret Weinstein
  • Tom Woods
  • Vladimir Zev Zelenko
The virus issue doesn't matter / Silent / non-committal
  • Gerald Celente
  • James Corbett
  • Celia Farber
  • Mark Crispin Miller
  • Denis Rancourt
  • Naomi Wolf
  • (several others could arguably here, but this is basically an extension of the naughty list, because these leaders should know how important this is to get right. It's literally the basis for the whole shebang.)
Groups:
  • Alliance for Natural Health International (ANHI)
  • American Frontline Doctors
  • American Frontline Nurses
  • Breathe MD
  • British Ivermectin Recommendation Development Group (BIRD)
  • Canadian COVID Care Alliance
  • Children's Health Defense
  • COVID Early Treatment Fund.
  • Evidence Based Medical Consultancy (E-BMC)
  • Feds 4 Medical Freedom
  • FLCCC - Frontline Critical Care Alliance
  • HART Group
  • Informed Consent Action Network
  • PANDA: Pandemics Data & Analytics
  • Physicians for Informed Consent
  • Teachers for Choice
  • UK Column
  • Unity Project
  • Vaccine Choice Canada
  • Vaccine Safety Research Foundation
  • World Council for Health
Here's the GOOD LIST!
 
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