Greece: debt, creditors, austerity measures, Syriza, Varoufakis, Troika

Green_Manalishi

Jedi Master
Hi, this problem that is happening in Greece reminds me of the similar one in Iceland, so do you think this could be another trial run? For me it seems so.

In his remarks to parliament, Mr. Papaconstantinou called on Greece's European partners to live up to their obligations.

"Obviously, the European Union must live up to its responsibilities and it is not doing it," he said, adding that no specifics of the rescue plan have been forthcoming even though the Greek government has pressed ahead with ever-tougher deficit cuts.

By the statement above it even seems they where tricked into it, the EU may have promised aid if only first they implemented strong measures in the economy, because no government would implement it without some kind of assurance.

In a nod to the protests and strike actions taking place around the country, Greece's finance minister acknowledged that public discontent was understandable.

"There is nothing to debate about these measures," said Communist Party head Aleka Papariga. "We are withdrawing from the debate. The issue will be judged on the streets."

And with this remark it seems the situation is going where the pathocrats want it to go.
 
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Adaryn

The Living Force
_http://www.vancouversun.com/news/dead+Greek+protest+against+austerity+plans/2988611/story.html

ATHENS - Three people were killed in a fire set by protesters on Wednesday during a march against government austerity measures in central Athens, officials said.

"We have found three dead people in the building that is on fire," the fire brigade said in a statement.

Protesters clashing with police set the commercial building on fire as tens of thousands of Greeks marched to parliament, testing the government's resolve in enacting deep budget cuts in return for billions of euros in EU/IMF aid.

In the worst violence since the Socialist government came to power in October, hundreds of striking demonstrators pelted police with rocks, chunks of marble and bottles, set garbage cans on fire and tried repeatedly to storm parliament, shortly before lawmakers began a debate on the belt-tightening measures.

The violent protesters were repelled by police in full riot gear hurling repeated rounds of tear gas and flash bombs, and smoke wafted through blocks of central Athens.

Masked youths threw petrol bombs, broke shop windows and shouted "Murderers" and "Burn the parliament", in a sign of swelling public anger at the government's plans for painful wage and pension cutbacks.

A giant plume of dark grey smoke rose over the central Stadiou Avenue where the two-storey commercial building, which houses a branch of the Marfin bank, was burning. Officials said two other buildings in the centre of the capital had been set on fire during the protest.

Police estimated the march at about 27,000 people. But eyewitnesses said there were at least 40,000 — easily the biggest protest since Greece was first hit by a debt crisis late last year.

Public and private sector workers are staging their third joint strike this year. They have grounded flights, shut shops and brought public transport to a standstill.

"These measures are horrible," said Maria Tzivara, a 54-year-old saleswoman. "I'm afraid I'll get fired or my salary will be cut. It will be very tough."

Prime Minister George Papandreou submitted an austerity bill to parliament on Tuesday that envisages 30 billion euros ($40 billion) in new savings through deep cuts in wages and pensions and a rise in value-added tax (VAT).

The conservative opposition has vowed to vote against the bill, dooming hopes of a national political consensus on the measures. The government enjoys a comfortable majority in parliament and expects to pass the legislation this week.

Until now, anti-austerity protests had been fairly peaceful but the violence on Wednesday echoed that seen in riots that shook the country in December 2008 after a teenager was killed by police.

© Copyright (c) Reuters
 

Odysseus

Jedi
Yes, things seem to get pretty ugly fast in Greece as of the 3 dead bank employees lately.

Greek government's economy measurements affecting the population are:
- Minimum wages are decreased from 700 down to 560 Euro.
- Gasoline VAT has been raised 10% having e.g. a price of 1,60 Euro/liter for unleaded gasoline
- VAT was raised in March from 19% to 21%, is being raised again up to 23%
- Retirement age has been raised from 61 to 63
- Civil/public servants got initially their salary decreased 4% and now again 10%
- Pensions are decreased
- Alcohol VAT is raised 10%
- Corporations have additional new expenses

There are also wide scale strikes affecting commerce/transport (bus, train, flights, ferries). Under other circumstances I would have made fun of the strikes as being part of daily life in Greece.

I find it also interesting that "financial crisis" hit Greece first amongst the fiscally weaker EU members, where everybody in the EU rushed in to organize a bailout for Greece. I say this because the greek population, should be one that wouldn't allow itself being tampered with to much before protests and violent riots break out. And to think such a not so exemplary behaviour of the culture which introduced "democracy" (of course let's not start how much essential "democracy" is left back nowadays in general).

One can ponder how much more the situation might escalate (maybe even provoked further, if it's not already -in fact- altogether provoked) in Greece before UN troops are sent in to settle things and restore order in the hellenic EU state.
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
Fwiw, I heard on the radio this morning that the organizers (?) of the manifestation were asking why the building that burned had all the doors sealed and no anti-fire system activated.

Could it be agent provocateurs who put the building on fire ?
I don' t know but it does cast a pretty bleak image of the whole manifestation and it might only be the beginning :|
 

Adaryn

The Living Force
Tigersoap said:
Fwiw, I heard on the radio this morning that the organizers (?) of the manifestation were asking why the building that burned had all the doors sealed and no anti-fire system activated.

Could it be agent provocateurs who put the building on fire ?

Yeah the whole thing is fishy.
Check out this Mecanopolis article (in French only, but with videos):
http://www.futurquantique.org/?p=5796

Translating a few passages:

The report of the firemen indicates that it's the wooden entrance door that was hit by a Molotov cotckail, whereas the amateur videos show that this door was still intact at the time the rescuers intervened, and that the fire rather seems to have started from the 1st, or even the 2nd storey.

According to the accounts of several firemen, there was no fire extinguisher inside the bank, and the emergency exit was locked (with a padlock). This information has been confirmed by several official documents which show that the building didn't respect the security norms.

The police, who claim to be in possession of video footage allegedly proving that the pyromaniacs are linked to an anarchist organisation, have not been able to arrest anyone yet. Several witnesses declared seeing men in uniforms and hoods pouring liters of petrol inside the hall of the bank several minutes after the Molotov cocktail explosion (these reports have yet to be confirmed).

ADDED - from the same article. It's an extract from a letter written by one of the bank employees:

The bank's head office categorically forbid the employees to leave the bank today [wednesday], even though they constantly requested it very early in the moring. The head office also forced the employees to lock the doors. They also confirmed several times over the phone that the bank would remain closed during the day. "Those who leave today won't come back to work tomorrow" was a constant threat. The head office blocked Internet access to the employees in order to prevent them from communicating with the outside world. During the days prior to the general strike, the head office constantly terrorized the employees with the following threat: "either you're going to work, or you're fired".
 

Odysseus

Jedi
Addendum: Turns out, that one of the fire victims was a pregnant woman expecting a boy.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if in fact agent provocateurs were involved, as there was at least one such incident caught on
tape by a citizen from his flat's window during the 2008 riots because of the 15 year old boy death by an accidental "warning
shot" of a policeman (even that incident was very fishy as eye witnesses reported controversial events to the official reports).

BTW, here are some thoughts of the famous greek composer Mikis Thedorakis on the latest development of events in Greece:
(german version):
http://de.mikis-theodorakis.net/index.php/article/articleview/549/1/77/
(french version):
http://fr.mikis-theodorakis.net/index.php/article/articleview/530/1/97/

Allow me to second his point about developments with neighbour state FYROM, as a colleague of mine who comes from Skopje told me about a vast US Intelligence complex being build on a hillside in Skopje (he even showed it to me on googlemaps), an obvious precursor for future US orchestrated geopolitical interests/interventions involving all those Balkan lands in near vicinity. The artificial setup between those two countries with the naming issue of "Former Yugoslavian Republic Of Macedonia" vs. "Macedonia" is in place. I personally am expecting at some point in the (very near?) future some sort of false flag operation getting things really really ugly.
:scared:

The sellout of Greece has started.
 

Adaryn

The Living Force
More pictures and videos here:
http://www.mecanopolis.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=734&p=7815#p7815

The first video shows policemen attacking a bar. The person filming the scene is then stopped by them and asked to erase the footage.
 

Regulattor

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
And while all international media coverage was aimed at Greek protest and riots, there was also, thou by far smaller in participants and different in nature, clash with soccer fans and police in Croatia (Balkan peninsula also). The clashes were initiated during soccer game in Zagreb, last Sunday. It was very violent event with multiple injured, one policeman lost his eye, few supporters seriously beaten with life threatening injuries and one even ended with bullet wound, live ammo was fired. Although all the blame for the fight was put on hooligans it is still unclear by whom and how exactly clashes have started.

Of course, next day all domestic media was about this event and government reaction and especially Minister of interior request was most troublesome, because of promptly proposed widening of police authority, and change of law which will allow police to use force against "hooligans" (we do not have "terrorist" - yet) more easily then it is now. Reintroducing of horse police units trained for restraining masses and teasers are the first on police wish list! I'm wondering how fast will it take for new bill to be written and executed. I think it's allready written and it's just waiting for right opportunity to jump out of some drawer. And there it is.

Funny thing is that few nights before this event I dreamed about some riots and shootings and people covered with blood, just in vicinity of the stadium. And I have received numbers of complaint of my friends and relatives how poor they felt or sleep last days. Hmmm.... Some kind of beaming perhaps? Balkans are always easy to fire up :huh:

All this is happening in the midst of economic downfall in my country. The Government have just declared new economic plan which in the end will enable most richest part of population to be more richer thru taxation changes. Unemployment is soaring, investments are on the free fall. Liquidity is worse then ever. Realestate is in mess. Every aspect of our economy is on the very edge of total collapse and dealing with "hooligans" are top priority for governing elite right now. Maybe they are expecting more of this riots and they want to be prepared when more of "hooligans" start asking questions, for example, what will my family eat today?

From: _http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/Sports/2010-05-05/10793/Surgeons_fight_for_life_of_soccer_fan_injured_during_Zagreb_riots

Surgeons fight for life of soccer fan injured during Zagreb riots

Croatian Times

Surgeons are fighting to save the life of a soccer fan accidentally shot by a policeman during a fight at the Maksimir stadium in Zagreb on Saturday.

Mario Galic who took part in the riots that broke out after the match between rivals Zagreb's Dinamo and Split's Hajduk soccer teams last Saturday was shot in the stomach, wrecking his liver and intestines.

Galic spent an hour and a half in the police station before receiving medical attention. After several days in hospital doctors noticed the onset of sepsis and decided to operate again.

Last night police published photographs of fans involved in the riots that left several people injured, asking for members of the public to help with identification.

They have so far received a number of phone calls from people who recognise the hooligans and some have voluntarily turned themselves in after seeing their photographs on the news, police said.


Vids of clashes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LyrzQrwgU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm9fxZ84aXw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzkQeyeKP_U
 

WhiteBear

Jedi Master
_http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/curtains-for-greece/2011/05/23/

Good article about summer events in the EU zone.

--Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis is reaching critical mass again. By “critical mass”, we mean that even Europe’s leaders can no longer pretend that Greece will repay its debts on time and that much of Europe’s banking sector (private and public) is insolvent. The yield on 10-year Greek government bonds is 15.8%. On a two-year bond, the yield is 25%. The European Commission estimates that Greek public debt is 166% of Greek GDP.

--Greece is scheduled to receive another €12 billion in bail-out money by the end of June. A Swiss journal cites a Greek newspaper in reporting that Greece has enough cash to get by on until about July 18th, give or take a few days. If that June money isn’t there, it could be curtains for Greek bondholders.
 

happyliza

The Living Force
My FB friend Emilios Georgiades generally has very good posts that I respect for their veracity. Also his brother or cousin is Foreign Minister for South Cyprus, so again he can get information from the 'horses mouth' as it were. It is quite alarming what has seemed to transpire with Turkey et al over the last 24 hours!

If anyone can shed more light on this, naturally people here need to know! For clarity his FB page can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/emilios.georgiades1?fref=nf

It certainly may explain somewhat all the anomalies happening in Turkey at present!


Greek armed forces on full alert…

After the provocative statement by the Turkish Defence Minister that his country will claim 16 Greek islands in the Aegean “by force if necessary”, the increased violations of Greek air-space by Turkish fighter jets, the recent acquisition by Turkey of 52 military bridges [the rest of Europe only possesses 48] capable of spanning the length of the Evros river that divides Turkey and Greece and the recent replacement of the Turkish military top brass in the western shores of Turkey facing the Aegean, with Kemalist hawks, the Greek Ministry of Defence has put the armed forces on full alert for the period of Easter in preparation for a “hot incident”.

Greece is in the middle of its biggest fight for survival these days, with its European partners piling on the pressure on the new government to accept the previous status quo of crippling austerity measures on the Greeks. Some observers view the timing of these latest claims by Turkey as being connected to the European assault on Greece and the fact that neither the EU nor the US are commenting on these provocative measures by Turkey, raises the speculation of a coordinated effort to pressure Greece into submission.

and also recently this:

And the power games continue….

The American Institute Hudson, in a lengthy study of US policy and of the potential of a strategic cooperation between Greece, Cyprus and Israel proposes a shift in the balance of power in the Eastern Mediterranean, as "Turkey can no longer be considered a reliable partner."

To this end, the study recommends the lifting of the military embargo on Cyprus in order to strengthen the general security of the region, in view of the discovery of vast amounts of natural gas in the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) of the three countries.[Greece, Cyprus and Israel]

Suddenly they remember we exist and even though Cyprus was the victim of an internationally condemned invasion/occupation, which they supported, it was Cyprus that was subjected to a military embargo, not Turkey [the aggressor].


I just am sorry for anyone caught up in all this. Another Ukraine etc as they are running out of time!

I will carry on researching what I can. Naturally, it is uppermost in my mind atm to 'read all the signs' and to possibly try to make totally different plans very very quickly!!!
 

Mr.Cyan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi happyliza - i definitely think that besides putting deliberate pressure on Greece, these moves are related to Alex Tsipras meeting Putin in Moscow on the 8th of April. The Empire could be pushing Turkey to fire the first "warning shot" at Greece not to "switch sides" - just my speculation here, but the timing is uncanny, especially when a Greek exit from Euro is on the cards...

Hope all will be well in Cyprus...
 

Mr.Cyan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Greek failure would mean eurozone end – Tsipras

An article in RT with Tsipras stating his frank views on the current situation Greece finds itself with regards to the Troika :

 
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Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Well, Tsipras and Varoufakis have been saying the same things again and again, but on deaf ears. It's beyond the point of "economic crisis", it's total poverty with all its implications for the majority of the Greek citizens. Yet the government continues to try to negotiate and ask for better terms on the loans (loans that previous governments took out and used to bail out Greek, German and French banks) so as to have money for its people: the health sector, payroll, pensions, etc. They are also asking for help to fight corruption inside Greece. They want info from Switzerland and France and Germany on the money Greek "elitists" have saved there to avoid paying taxes in Greece, but none of the "European associates" are forthcoming.

The Greek economic minister, Yanis Varoufakis, 2 days ago was in Germany and gave a good speech asking for the help that Greece actually needs, not the one forced to take (which is not help at all). See link. Varoufakis' talk starts at about 12 minutes and ends at the one hour mark.

http://livestream.com/dmake/zukunft/videos/89664402
 

Anthony

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It's hard to believe that Syriza thinks that they can reach some sort of an agreement with the IMF
vultures, I think Tsipras is well aware of how they operate, or at least I hope he does. Maybe they're
just trying to buy time, though I have no idea for what exactly.
 

Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Anthony said:
It's hard to believe that Syriza thinks that they can reach some sort of an agreement with the IMF
vultures, I think Tsipras is well aware of how they operate, or at least I hope he does. Maybe they're
just trying to buy time, though I have no idea for what exactly
.

For the deal with Russia about the Greek Stream perhaps? Or even entering the Eurasian Union? I really don't know. They might be just as naive and think that the EE lords would lend them eventually the help they need (not bailouts) or they might be buying time, meanwhile saying the things that would make the voters happy and present themselves as really trying, so they can say in the end: We did all we could with our European partners but it ain't working, we have to turn elsewhere.
 
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