Gregory James - Faux "Master"?

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
Hi All...:-)

I hope this is the right place to post this, and that it's not considered 'noise', because I really want to understand. I'll get right to it.

Gregory James posted this status on Facebook:

"The world as you know it will soon be no more. Let if go. Drop your attachment to that which cannot be sustained. Do not evade your longing for Truth and genuineness. It is your yearning that connects you to the ability to draw deeper into an Awareness of your True Being. Why play with useless delusions? Why do you call them real? Your longing is predicated not on that which you want, but on that which you Are. The journey that you have begun cannot be stopped, therefore it must be embraced. You have the opportunity now to recognize your True Design — the Divine Architecture of your Root Origin. Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came. You may no longer afford to forget."
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I am pasting the brief thread of discussion that followed this, because I'm still confused. Someone else responded to my question, and this didn't really clarify things for me. I realize I'm not as far along the path as many here, and I do appreciate the feedback I receive, so your feedback is very welcome and most appreciated, because I do learn alot from what I read here.
I'm not getting what is meant by all of this below, so obviously, I'm missing something....
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lisa Guliani: Gregory, isn't the suffering part of the learning process? I understand about letting go of delusions, things that aren't real.... What am I not getting here?

Michael Fuchs: Every moment is bliss i we can live from higher self...we are meant to live in this joyous state of consciousness 24/7 for bliss is none other than who we are in our soul...as brother gregory points out everything else is a delusion...thanls for the reminder...every step every breath bliss...grin anything which comes between us and this must be dropped transformed etc...a guide like master gregory is indispensible...

Lisa Guliani: Thank you for the comment. It was this sentence that I wonder about: "Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came." Doesn't the suffering factor into it as we learn to live from the higher self? I'm a little confused about this.

Michael Fuchs: Well i dont speak for him but my exp is though i have been there...i do still forget...so remembering is it...once we have a true exp of our soul even one time...then remembering is easier...again being in the prescence regularly or when possible of people who are truly there is so helpful...we are no less than god...truly...all is god...as jesus and all the great ones have taught...no judgement only acceptance of the love the truth the bliss...smile

Lisa Guliani: Thank you, that's a beautiful sentiment, but I'm still not sure I understand what was meant. I'll continue to think about it.

Michael Fuchs: Well you are right...the suffering is the lessons so we can remember....brother gregory is trying to help us...a shortcut...why suffer? Forget it...go with it...al energy doesnt just come from source...it is source! All energy! This is one of the secrets my teacher gave me...it was literally whispered in my ear...at the right time for me to understand...my buddhist teacher told me the truly enlightened person experiences torture the same as love and caresses...it is the same to them...divine bliss...when jesus christ was crucified he demonstrated this...he begged god to forgive the ones who did this...you see...they were only hurting themselves...not him...how could the true Son of God be hurt? Jesus was such an awesome teacher...so simple so perfect so profound...

Michael Fuchs: One of my favorite pieces of wisdom is from none other than yoda...train yourself to let go of that which you fear to lose the most...suffering is a delusion...any perceived suffering is actually gods love his teaching...though yes...it can be so hard to see and accept...amen...

Lisa Guliani: I'd like to think about this some more. Thank you for trying to clarify this for me.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Questions:

1. Isn't the suffering part of the learning process, part of the lessons one must learn in order to grow and develop self-awareness and self-knowledge?

Gregory wrote: "Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came." I'm unclear as to what is meant by this sentence. It''s my understanding that suffering is part of learning the lessons we all need to learn, and suffering plays a role in the whole process as we engage in the Self-work. Am I misunderstanding the role of suffering in the whole scheme of things? My suffering is a product of having forgotten why I came? I thought my suffering is a product of the choices and decisions I've made, combined with my interactions with badly wired people and my own bad wiring.


2. If everything is lessons, and we seem to learn the most from those lessons that are harshest, or most painful, and we suffer, should we be taking this suggested shortcut?
If we take shortcuts, and just 'forget suffering', and just 'go with it', are we really going to learn what we need to learn from the lesson? Seems like cheating to me, but I've been wrong before and don't claim any special expertise here. I don't remember reading anything about taking shortcuts, bypassing the suffering part, which often IS the lesson, (seems to me) and shooting straight to the Bliss Zone. Can someone please point me in the right direction, because I'm puzzled about this as well.

Also, this mention of 'bliss' - well, I'm just not feelin' this bliss he speaks of, not yet, I'm not in this 'joyous state of consciousness'. If we are supposed to look objectively at the darkness as well as the light, and see what is happening in the world as it is, rather than the way we wish or want it to be ( insofar as we can see it), how does one look at all that is happening around us and feel a joyous state of consciousness? How does one look at what may well be coming ( thinking meteors, comets, asteroids here, thinking 'ice age', thinking 'nuclear war' - and live in a state of breathing bliss and joyousness?

Furthermore, this bothered me too: "....the truly enlightened person experiences torture the same as love and caresses...it is the same to them...divine bliss...when jesus christ was crucified he demonstrated this...he begged god to forgive the ones who did this...you see...they were only hurting themselves...not him...how could the true Son of God be hurt? Jesus was such an awesome teacher...so simple so perfect so profound..."

The truly enlightened person experiences torture the same as love and caresses? Divine bliss? What???
It would be a worthy goal, seems to me, to aspire to be more like Jesus, more "Christlike", but I am not Christ, and if I am, I am unaware of this completely.


Sorry if this is something I should be able to figure out myself by now, and I AM thinking about it, but I'm confused.
It seems to me that it's not really doing the 'work' if I'm going to take a 'shortcut' - and don't get me wrong, I don't like to suffer!! But I do know the value of learning the lessons, however painful they may be.

We may strive toward this 'perfection', this stated 'bliss', but is this something attainable realistically in this dimension by people engaged in doing the Work?
By anyone who seeks knowledge and answers?

Can anyone offer some insight on all this? While it sucks to be confused, and I feel kinda dumb to be stuck momentarily in this pot hole, confusion precedes clarity, at least on THIS forum, so... anybody?

And thank you in advance for taking the time to provide feedback.

Lisa :huh:
 

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
Gregory James responded to my questions:

"Gregory wrote: "Lisa, because there is life, so there is suffering. This is the foremost teaching – the first Truth. We see it everyday. Where there to be no body, no sentience, there would be no suffering. This is not to say that life is bad, only that it bears the price of having to suffer, sooner or later.

But suffering has great value, indeed – if we see it for what it is. It is suffering that allows us to stand up and say, hey, something is wrong here. It is the Knowledge of our suffering – the inclusion of it in our frame of awareness rather than our denial of it – that allows us the place from which to see clearly the next Truths... that our suffering is born from ignorance and attachment to a misapprehended paradigm and situation. From here we may see clearly that we are therefore able to grow, to become better than we are – to become True, Genuine, Real, Empathic (what we are meant to BE). And it is from this place we Realize the value of the Work and continue to choose it as the only viable means of abiding Reality. This is key; it is the meaning of the value of suffering!

So indeed, suffering has tremendous value. It is what makes us available to empathize – as an example. Where we not to suffer, we would have not compassion or true strength. That said, transcendence of suffering the constraint of our ignorance is the greatest of all things, as it is from here that we are truly capable of bringing positive change to others – to BE what we are meant to BE (a light on a hilltop that cannot be hidden). When we transcend this misapprehension of things – and our attachment to the fallacy in its stead – we no longer contribute to the sufferings of others, and we no longer forget why we are here.

Hope this helps. ♥"
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
[quote author=Lisa Guliani]
Hi All...:-)

I hope this is the right place to post this, and that it's not considered 'noise', because I really want to understand. I'll get right to it.


[...]


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Questions:

1. Isn't the suffering part of the learning process, part of the lessons one must learn in order to grow and develop self-awareness and self-knowledge?

Gregory wrote: "Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came." I'm unclear as to what is meant by this sentence. It''s my understanding that suffering is part of learning the lessons we all need to learn, and suffering plays a role in the whole process as we engage in the Self-work. Am I misunderstanding the role of suffering in the whole scheme of things? My suffering is a product of having forgotten why I came? I thought my suffering is a product of the choices and decisions I've made, combined with my interactions with badly wired people and my own bad wiring. [/quote]

As for the sentence, think he means as a soul reincarnated quest, what was once known i.e. what was worked on and experienced (in another lifetime(s)) and what still needs work, is forgotten and hence in a new life, suffering is possibly intensified for some without mindfulness of past reference, osit he means.

I'll keep reading here, however if the above makes sense, it may answer other questions here.
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Lisa Guliani said:
Gregory James responded to my questions:

"Gregory wrote: "Lisa, because there is life, so there is suffering. This is the foremost teaching – the first Truth. We see it everyday. Where there to be no body, no sentience, there would be no suffering. This is not to say that life is bad, only that it bears the price of having to suffer, sooner or later.

But suffering has great value, indeed – if we see it for what it is. It is suffering that allows us to stand up and say, hey, something is wrong here. It is the Knowledge of our suffering – the inclusion of it in our frame of awareness rather than our denial of it – that allows us the place from which to see clearly the next Truths... that our suffering is born from ignorance and attachment to a misapprehended paradigm and situation. From here we may see clearly that we are therefore able to grow, to become better than we are – to become True, Genuine, Real, Empathic (what we are meant to BE). And it is from this place we Realize the value of the Work and continue to choose it as the only viable means of abiding Reality. This is key; it is the meaning of the value of suffering!

So indeed, suffering has tremendous value. It is what makes us available to empathize – as an example. Where we not to suffer, we would have not compassion or true strength. That said, transcendence of suffering the constraint of our ignorance is the greatest of all things, as it is from here that we are truly capable of bringing positive change to others – to BE what we are meant to BE (a light on a hilltop that cannot be hidden). When we transcend this misapprehension of things – and our attachment to the fallacy in its stead – we no longer contribute to the sufferings of others, and we no longer forget why we are here.

Hope this helps. ♥"

Missed this follow up and was focused on "Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came.".

Here is what Gurdjieff says on suffering:

Sacrifice Your Suffering

I have already said before that sacrifice is necessary. Without sacrifice, nothing can be attained. But if there is anything in the world that people do not understand it is the idea of sacrifice. They think they have to sacrifice something that they have. For example, I once said that they must sacrifice "faith", "tranquility", or "health." All these words must be taken in quotation marks. In actual fact, they have to sacrifice only what they imagine they have, and which in reality they do not have. They must sacrifice their fantasies. This is difficult for them, very difficult. It is much easier to sacrifice real things.

Another thing that people must give up is their suffering. It is very difficult also to sacrifice one's suffering. A man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering. Man is made in such a way that he is never so attached to anything as he is to his suffering. And it is necessary to be free from suffering. No one who is not free from suffering, who has not sacrificed his suffering, can work. Nothing can be attained without suffering but at the same time, one must begin by sacrificing suffering. Now, decipher what this means.

-- Gurdjieff, in P.D. Ouspensky's 'In Search Of The Miraculous'
 

Voyageur

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FOTCM Member
So Gregory seems to be talking about "suffering" - as mentioned above, being " the first Truth" of Buddhism, which is called 'Dukkha'. This is then described from its origin as follows:

See _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

The second truth is that the origin of dukkha can be known. Within the context of the four noble truths, the origin of dukkha is commonly explained as craving (Pali: tanha) conditioned by ignorance (Pali: avijja). On a deeper level, the root cause of dukkha is identified as ignorance (Pali: avijja) of the true nature of things. The third noble truth is that the complete cessation of dukkha is possible, and the fourth noble truth identifies a path to this cessation.[a]
 
G

Gertrudes

Guest
Lisa, I personally see A LOT of red flags in these two individuals, both Gregory James and Michael Fusch. The whole flavor of their statements comes across to me as new agey, detached from reality, and as trying to place us at the level of God. Well, we aren't God, nor Christ, as you said.

Gregory said:
You have the opportunity now to recognize your True Design — the Divine Architecture of your Root Origin. Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came. You may no longer afford to forget

This is ambiguous and can have different interpretations. For one, it can easily be read under a new age lenses where we simply have to tap to that Amazing being that is us to remember why we came so that we can stop suffering. The point, as I see it, isn't to remember why we came, otherwise why forgetting? The point is to learn, look at what is around us, not try to achieve some supposed pre birth state. We are not pre birth, we are here, now, not there. If this is the meaning behind his words, it seems way too far out in the clouds to me....
Maybe I'm reading it too literally though, and others may see it differently.

Michael Fuchs: Every moment is bliss i we can live from higher self...we are meant to live in this joyous state of consciousness 24/7 for bliss is none other than who we are in our soul...as brother gregory points out everything else is a delusion...thanls for the reminder...every step every breath bliss...grin anything which comes between us and this must be dropped transformed etc...a guide like master gregory is indispensible...

Brother and Master Gregory?? This guy seems to be setting himself up as a guru. Either Gregory, or Michael has just decided to see him as such. Even so, this is looking creepier and creepier. Michael Fuchs talks about bliss and that everything else is a delusion. Well, here's how that reads to me: I'll stop paying my bills, maybe I'll even stop working, this planet earth is all a delusion, let me just enjoy all of these chemicals that are dancing around in my brain and totally immerse myself into further self centered bliss (read: oblivion).

Micheal Fuchs said:
we are no less than god...truly...all is god...as jesus and all the great ones have taught...no judgement only acceptance of the love the truth the bliss...smile

This, again, is putting us at the level of the creator. Personally I find that to be quite an arrogant statement, in the sense that it ignores, again, the reality of us and of the situation. Does he even know the meaning of what he is saying? Maybe we will be at the level of the creator when we reach 6d. Right now we aren't, if we were would the world look the way it is looking like right now? And what is the point of assessing our level wit that of God? I dunno but there seems to be a lot of rumbling about things the neither he nor we are yet ready to understand, rather then focusing on objective reality, at the level we are.

I won't carry on because to be honest I find everything this guy says to be new age mumbo jumbo. It looks like he's quite happy with detaching himself from reality and just get lost in an orgy of blissful emotions.

Gregory then talks about suffering and ends up saying:

That said, transcendence of suffering the constraint of our ignorance is the greatest of all things, as it is from here that we are truly capable of bringing positive change to others – to BE what we are meant to BE (a light on a hilltop that cannot be hidden). When we transcend this misapprehension of things – and our attachment to the fallacy in its stead – we no longer contribute to the sufferings of others, and we no longer forget why we are

That transcendence of suffering he talks about sounds a bit ambiguous, not to mention the light on a hilltop we are supposed be. His word usage seems to have hints of new age, but maybe that's just me. Although I agree with him that attachment to a misapprehension of things will lead to more suffering, so in that sense transcending suffering seems to equate with stopping the unconscious suffering that is part of our Work here on the forum. I would add that unconscious, automatic suffering would then be replaced by conscious suffering, the one we experience as we strive for growth.

I pretty much agree with your assessment Lisa, I don't think that a shortcut will lead us anywhere (although some may chose to do so), nor do I think that we should pursue a state of bliss.

Lisa said:
We may strive toward this 'perfection', this stated 'bliss', but is this something attainable realistically in this dimension by people engaged in doing the Work?

As I currently see it, we are striving to become better, and when genuinely doing so searching for bliss is out of the equation. Bliss implies that the subject is searching for feeling good, not to become a better person.
Often becoming a better person involves feeling very bad, it is part of growth. I think that there are far more important things then trying to feel good, or blissful, both of which are rooted on self gratification. Sure, I don't like to suffer either! But the more I look for feeling good the less attention I pay into becoming a better person, and the more suffering I'll get on a long term. Conscious suffering would be applicable here, where I choose not to feel temporarily good to favor my longer term growth. This is how I see it, others may wish to correct or add something. Hope that makes sense though!

Who is Gregory though? Having another guy calling him master doesn't sound good to me. If it's Gregory himself that's trying to create that aura around himself I'd just ignore him entirely, but we don't know that yet.

EDIT: Having re read Lisa's posts my interpretation of Gregory's words changed, so I altered my post accordingly.
 

Gawan

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Gertrudes said:
Lisa, I personally see A LOT of red flags in these two individuals, both Gregory James and Michael Fusch. The whole flavor of their statements comes across to me as new agey, detached from reality, and as trying to place us at the level of God. Well, we aren't God, nor Christ, as you said.

Gregory said:
You have the opportunity now to recognize your True Design — the Divine Architecture of your Root Origin. Your suffering is a product of having forgotten why you came. You may no longer afford to forget

This is ambiguous and can have different interpretations. For one, it can easily be read under a new age lenses where we simply have to tap to that Amazing being that is us to remember why we came so that we can stop suffering. The point, as I see it, isn't to remember why we came, otherwise why forgetting? The point is to learn, look at what is around us, not try to achieve some supposed pre birth state. We are not pre birth, we are here, now, not there. This seems way too far out in the clouds to me....

Michael Fuchs: Every moment is bliss i we can live from higher self...we are meant to live in this joyous state of consciousness 24/7 for bliss is none other than who we are in our soul...as brother gregory points out everything else is a delusion...thanls for the reminder...every step every breath bliss...grin anything which comes between us and this must be dropped transformed etc...a guide like master gregory is indispensible...

Brother and Master Gregory?? This guy seems to be setting himself up as a guru. Either Gregory, or Michael has just decided to see him as such. Even so, this is looking creepier and creepier. Michael Fuchs talks about bliss and that everything else is a delusion. Well, here's how that reads to me: I'll stop paying my bills, maybe I'll even stop working, this planet earth is all a delusion, let me just enjoy all of these chemicals that are dancing around in my brain and totally immerse myself into further self centered bliss (read: oblivion).

Gregory should be a forum member too, eventually he could chime in.

Imo Mr. F. seems pretty off.
 

Alada

The Living Force
Lisa Guliani said:
Sorry if this is something I should be able to figure out myself by now, and I AM thinking about it, but I'm confused.
It seems to me that it's not really doing the 'work' if I'm going to take a 'shortcut' - and don't get me wrong, I don't like to suffer!! But I do know the value of learning the lessons, however painful they may be.

We may strive toward this 'perfection', this stated 'bliss', but is this something attainable realistically in this dimension by people engaged in doing the Work?
By anyone who seeks knowledge and answers?

Can anyone offer some insight on all this? While it sucks to be confused, and I feel kinda dumb to be stuck momentarily in this pot hole, confusion precedes clarity, at least on THIS forum, so... anybody?

Well it’s probably confusing because most of it is useless word salad BS to begin with, that is then propped up with more of the same and a dollop of wishful thinking.

Try and find ANYTHING in what they write that is a data point of knowledge that you can USE. Sure it all sounds as if it’s supposed to mean something, but what does it actually mean, what Knowledge can you find in it that you can use? No wonder it’s confusing!

At best these kind of sentiments (and I think that’s what they are, wishful thinking, attributing God’s point of view to oneself) are stolen ideas from the way of the Yogi. A long path that ultimately might produce one who knows but has not learned how to Do, still he can not Do anything. But, that’s being optimistic, it’s VERY easy to write the kind of things they write, but very difficult to learn how to change one’s Being, and that’s what we’re interested in here.

It is VERY easy to keep lying to oneself and imagine all sorts of things, but I’ll bet that if you take someone like that and scratch them a little, you’ll get very a different person than the one presented in these writings. Cut him up in traffic after a long, hot, frustrating day when the a/c has broken and he’s late for a flight but still stuck on the freeway and you will soon see that underneath the gloss nothing has changed! Or watch him in the queue for the checkout at the the supermarket and you will see that he is still asleep.

It is not enough just to 'forget suffering’, if the proposed method for doing that is too fall into an even deeper sleep – only to dream that one is awake. It’s a way to block out objective reality, to become "only a a dream of the past”.

Suffering, at least conscious suffering (you see they don not even make the distinction, perhaps do not know it even) is a part learning how to be master of the whole of oneself, one’s ‘machine’, of working to really be free – not just imagine that we are. It is a way to gradually work on one’s level of Being, change what you are.

So I think that’s generally why it’s confusing, the fine words all sound as if they’re supposed to mean something and in some way that resonates, but they don’t actually teach you how to Do anything, only dream. Quite insidious really, or so it seems to me.
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Alada said:
Well it’s probably confusing because most of it is useless word salad BS to begin with, that is then propped up with more of the same and a dollop of wishful thinking.

Try and find ANYTHING in what they write that is a data point of knowledge that you can USE. Sure it all sounds as if it’s supposed to mean something, but what does it actually mean, what Knowledge can you find in it that you can use? No wonder it’s confusing!

At best these kind of sentiments (and I think that’s what they are, wishful thinking, attributing God’s point of view to oneself) are stolen ideas from the way of the Yogi. A long path that ultimately might produce one who knows but has not learned how to Do, still he can not Do anything. But, that’s being optimistic, it’s VERY easy to write the kind of things they write, but very difficult to learn how to change one’s Being, and that’s what we’re interested in here.

It is VERY easy to keep lying to oneself and imagine all sorts of things, but I’ll bet that if you take someone like that and scratch them a little, you’ll get very a different person than the one presented in these writings. Cut him up in traffic after a long, hot, frustrating day when the a/c has broken and he’s late for a flight but still stuck on the freeway and you will soon see that underneath the gloss nothing has changed! Or watch him in the queue for the checkout at the the supermarket and you will see that he is still asleep.

It is not enough just to 'forget suffering’, if the proposed method for doing that is too fall into an even deeper sleep – only to dream that one is awake. It’s a way to block out objective reality, to become "only a a dream of the past”.

Suffering, at least conscious suffering (you see they don not even make the distinction, perhaps do not know it even) is a part learning how to be master of the whole of oneself, one’s ‘machine’, of working to really be free – not just imagine that we are. It is a way to gradually work on one’s level of Being, change what you are.

So I think that’s generally why it’s confusing, the fine words all sound as if they’re supposed to mean something and in some way that resonates, but they don’t actually teach you how to Do anything, only dream. Quite insidious really, or so it seems to me.

I think that sums it up - you're basically reading newage word salad. "Feel good" stuff as opposed to "objective reality" stuff. GregoryJ has posted on the forum but I think he does so rarely because his beliefs are challenged here more than he is comfortable with. He appears to be quite identified with his belief system, which is fine, but it's important to remember that he is not engaged in Fourth Way Work. I was unaware that he even allows anyone else to call him 'master' - that's enough to send a chill down my spine and most unfortunate for all involved. At the end of the day, trying to find spiritual guidance on facebook is enough to confuse anyone.
 

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
Thank you all!! Finally, something I can wrap my brain around. Everyday language! I didn't know Gregory isn't engaged in Fourth Way work. I also didn't know people call him "Master" until I saw that person refer to him like that yesterday. I've had uneasy feelings in reading the stuff I've been reading coming from him, even though some of it I like and agree with - most I don't 'get'. He has been published on SOTT as well, I believe. Didn't want to jump to a wrong conclusion or unfounded opinion, but the writings do seem new agey to me too, and vague. That kind of language used in new age type writings and teachings, is apparently not language that my brain wraps around easily, or at all.

I did think ( assume) he was also involved in doing the Work, so that was my misunderstanding there. Guess I assumed such because of his association with SOTT and other forum members.
I don't know who the other person ( Michael Fuchs) is, just someone who responded to my questions and made no sense to me. I did try to remain polite, but didn't understand him. His comments came across to me like those of a groupie, or hero-worshiper type, in awe of Gregory James. A sockpuppet, maybe.

It bothers me when I don't grasp someone's meaning as quickly as I normally do or think I should. Why is it that people feel the need to change their whole way of communicating just because they believe in Buddhist or other teachings? I sometimes think people are trying to pass themselves off as cardboard cutouts of Buddha or ( insert deity or spiritual teacher of choice). Do they really need to use this whole - what seems like, to me anyway - OTHER language? Because that's how it comes across to me, like some whole other foreign language. Very flowery and floaty, very vague, very wispy.

Think I'll just stick with what I can understand and that resonates with me here, information I can apply and use to continue to become a better person and help others -AND stop assuming things about people based upon their associations with others in the network. So, some lessons learned there.

Also agree that the whole flavor of the Fb comments seems to be trying to convince people to move in the opposite direction of STO, if the focus is on trying to attain a blissful, transcendent state of joyousness for one's self. That says to me, no matter what's going on with the rest of the world, I'm going to ignore it and pretend it's not happening, so I can keep feeling good. And if one looks at the stuff going on in our world today and somehow manages to remain in a blissful state, then, are they really seeing the world as it is or are they just looking at the world they've created for themselves in their own heads with these 'love, joy, bliss and light' thoughts? Seems more like closing the eyes and the mind to what is ugly in the world and focusing only, or mostly, on what isn't. Seems like some kind of programming, at least to me.

As mentioned earlier, I see - and get - the value in suffering as part of learning the lessons we need to learn to grow and become better people - but as I gain more knowledge and understanding, my personal suffering has lessened with respect to some of the experiences/ lessons in my own life, and I'm grateful for this, and am not clinging to all of that pain today. Bringing those issues here to the forum helped me alot, just as it's helping me right now. Thank you all for clarifying and substantiating some things I've been suspecting, and have been disturbed and unsure about.

I think Gregory is a very nice person, and I thought he wrote a good article about John Major Jenkins, but there is no way I'm ever going to call him - or anyone - 'Master', and the New Age blah blah blah is not for me. I don't 'get' it more often than not, and I don't think the people who are putting it out really intend for it to be understood. If they did, they wouldn't use the language they do in communicating what they're trying to teach. The message would be clear instead of ' somewhere out there' in the Bliss Zone.

Thanks again for the feedback everybody. I'm not confused anymore...:-)
 

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
P.S. Just to clarify one thing: I am not looking for spiritual guidance on Facebook. Gregory's status posts appear on my news feed, and that's how I came across it. If I want guidance, I know where to go and whom to ask. I'm here, aren't I? :-)
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Lisa Guliani said:
Thank you all!! Finally, something I can wrap my brain around. Everyday language! I didn't know Gregory isn't engaged in Fourth Way work.

Relatively speaking very few people are.

l said:
I also didn't know people call him "Master" until I saw that person refer to him like that yesterday. I've had uneasy feelings in reading the stuff I've been reading coming from him, even though some of it I like and agree with - most I don't 'get'. He has been published on SOTT as well, I believe. Didn't want to jump to a wrong conclusion or unfounded opinion, but the writings do seem new agey to me too, and vague. That kind of language used in new age type writings and teachings, is apparently not language that my brain wraps around easily, or at all.

I did think ( assume) he was also involved in doing the Work, so that was my misunderstanding there. Guess I assumed such because of his association with SOTT and other forum members.

We associate with people on all sorts of paths because that's the nature of life. The article he wrote is valuable in and of itself, but that doesn't mean that authors we carry necessarily are engaged in the Work the way we are engaged in it. Laura's post here about people who have been to the Chateau also applies to authors on SOTT and to forum members:

Laura said:
People should remember that just because someone is associated with us here, or have spent time with us here, it does not automatically make that person some sort of wise and advanced individual. The fact is, very often, people come here because they are trying to escape from life and they think we won't figure it out. Or they are trying to worm their way into a position of dominance and think I was born yesterday. And still other situations involve people we feel are sincere but who are having a great difficulty of some sort and they come to spend time working on themselves. Others come because they really ARE pretty wise and we just simply enjoy their company. And some come simply because they are working on a project that we are supporting, though we know in advance that they are not, and never will be, able to do "The Work." But their expertise or services are needed.

So, it's not a good idea to make assumptions. Each and every one of you should evaluate your own interactions with such individuals and if you get a red flag, you should tell us about it.

Basically, discernment is key and assumptions are always dangerous. With that said, I don't think GregoryJ is dangerous at all, he's just on his own path and quite staunchly so, because it serves him in a way that pleases him, as are many people on many other 'paths'.

It is true that giving up mechanical suffering is important, but the devil is in the details and it's not at all about putting oneself on the level of 'god' and reaching 'bliss' - it's about learning enough to no longer mechanically suffer - to consciously suffer in service to others and in that, serve and grow the self. The book 'Darkness Over Tibet' just came to mind as it has some great examples of those taking sleep as wakefulness and living their whole lives thinking they are serving light, when they're actually serving darkness.
 

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
Thanks, Anart, I'll check that book out. I did read Laura's message prior to this GJ post, and I didn't think to apply it with this matter. Didn't think! No more assumptions from here on.
 

Beau

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Lisa Guliani said:
Thanks, Anart, I'll check that book out. I did read Laura's message prior to this GJ post, and I didn't think to apply it with this matter. Didn't think! No more assumptions from here on.

You can also check out Laura's 3 part article discussing Darkness Over Tibet along with reading the book, which I highly recommend: http://cassiopaea.org/2012/03/26/darkness-over-tibet-2/
 
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