G's Beelzebub's life rules...

[Menna]

In reading the book Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson - G in the begining of the book makes a point to say "a stick has two ends" obvious metaphor. He then goes on to tell the story about a person that worked around the rail road who's job it was to ring the bell to wake up the rail road workers and thus everyone in the town. After he started his job he began to feel ill shortly after he performed his bell ringing duties. After the bell ringer spent some time with a local friend the "dog catcher" he had a hunch as to why he began to feel ill. One day he was out with his dog catcher friend and as the dog catcher was taking out his net to catch a dog the church bells rang and scared away the dog. He started to curse the church bells and get very mad. This rail road bell ringer came to the realization that he must have been feeling ill because the towns people cursed him for waking them up so early every morning so he started this new technique of cursing and getting angry moments before he rang the bell. Since starting this new technique he started to feel better after ringing the bell and no longer became ill.

You may ask ok great why am I writing this. I am writing this because I would like to comment on what I believe this means from a practical standpoint based on my level and experience in life.

Obviously life is balance good things can happen and bad things can happen this is how the word goes round. How can we mitigate the bad things from happening to us and live closer in the middle or closer to the middle/good? Is it possible?

In talking to a good friend who I often talk to. I recently had an interested conversation and after I told him about my week his reply was..."you can't have a good week can you" This comment came shortly after reading the begining of Beelzebub's and after realizing that it takes alot of universal workings for positivity to happen in ones life we can't control it all so if it happens without realization or appreciation of it then there might come the other end of the stick the negativity to add balance.

Based off what I have read in Beelzebub G's book so far - after mentation about the quote, passage above, my friends comment and my experiences in life I came to the conclusion that it is important to recognize and give thanks/appreciation after a "good thing" has happened in your life. Recognizing the "good thing" and saying thank you in your head or with voice or however you want to - to the universe for providing the dynamic, vibrations and energy for the positivity is important. Will this help mitigate the bad - the other end of the stick from appearing? I just started this practice too early to tell. I am posting this because I believe this might help keep one from negativity more so than if they didn't practice recognizing and giving thanks to positivity. I believe this with my solar plexus/chest more so then with my head my head has just gathered data and memories the feeling and intellectual center together has come up with this post.


Just some thoughts.

 

[Zee Ley]

Menna, thank you for the thread. I wasn't able to recognize this point of view while reading Beelzebub's' Tales. I wish my English to be more fluent to get into the deep. So far I can say that for me the story with railway worker is about interactions. We give, and we receive. What we give and what we receive depends of our awareness. Imagine consciousness being a vessel with water. All people are like a system of communicating vessel. We do communicate, don't we? Sometimes we even network.

As an example of negative communication I can picture a married couple whos passion is gone. Instead of warm feelings towards each other, to compensate the lose by having constant quarel.

Barbara O'Brien in "Operators and Things" has an interesting example of acting in situation of negative interaction. She speaks with guy who delivers milk to the household without supressing her true feelings towards him. Tells everything that she think about him and his attitude towards other people. And it works!

Something regarding the interaction topic could be seen in Carlos Castanedas work.
To be careful/gentle with the world,
to hide ones personal history (what is the purpose of gossiping by the way?),
to make death your advisor,
to interact with petty tyrants...

My thoughts in response to yours.

 

[Jones]

In reading the book Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson - G in the begining of the book makes a point to say "a stick has two ends" obvious metaphor. He then goes on to tell the story about a person that worked around the rail road who's job it was to ring the bell to wake up the rail road workers and thus everyone in the town. After he started his job he began to feel ill shortly after he performed his bell ringing duties. After the bell ringer spent some time with a local friend the "dog catcher" he had a hunch as to why he began to feel ill. One day he was out with his dog catcher friend and as the dog catcher was taking out his net to catch a dog the church bells rang and scared away the dog. He started to curse the church bells and get very mad. This rail road bell ringer came to the realization that he must have been feeling ill because the towns people cursed him for waking them up so early every morning so he started this new technique of cursing and getting angry moments before he rang the bell. Since starting this new technique he started to feel better after ringing the bell and no longer became ill.

Maybe he was feeling ill because on a level, subconscious perhaps, he knew that there would be townspeople who were cursing him, but he wasn’t acknowledging that information, or was repressing/suppressing it. So maybe he was not absorbing the negative influence of the cursing because in expressing it, he allowed it to move through him instead of containing or absorbing it. Interesting that there is mention of a dog catcher and a dog getting away given that Clarissa Pinkola Estes – Women Who Run with the Wolves uses the dog to represent our instincts.

 

[davey72]

Menna, thank you for the thread. I wasn't able to recognize this point of view while reading Beelzebub's' Tales. I wish my English to be more fluent to get into the deep. So far I can say that for me the story with railway worker is about interactions. We give, and we receive. What we give and what we receive depends of our awareness. Imagine consciousness being a vessel with water. All people are like a system of communicating vessel. We do communicate, don't we? Sometimes we even network.

As an example of negative communication I can picture a married couple whos passion is gone. Instead of warm feelings towards each other, to compensate the lose by having constant quarel.

Barbara O'Brien in "Operators and Things" has an interesting example of acting in situation of negative interaction. She speaks with guy who delivers milk to the household without supressing her true feelings towards him. Tells everything that she think about him and his attitude towards other people. And it works!

Something regarding the interaction topic could be seen in Carlos Castanedas work.
To be careful/gentle with the world,
to hide ones personal history (what is the purpose of gossiping by the way?),
to make death your advisor,
to interact with petty tyrants...

My thoughts in response to yours.

I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on these Castaneda points you have made? Particularily the one about hiding ones personal history. How can this be a good thing?

 

[herondancer]

Based off what I have read in Beelzebub G's book so far - after mentation about the quote, passage above, my friends comment and my experiences in life I came to the conclusion that it is important to recognize and give thanks/appreciation after a "good thing" has happened in your life. Recognizing the "good thing" and saying thank you in your head or with voice or however you want to - to the universe for providing the dynamic, vibrations and energy for the positivity is important. Will this help mitigate the bad - the other end of the stick from appearing? I just started this practice too early to tell. I am posting this because I believe this might help keep one from negativity more so than if they didn't practice recognizing and giving thanks to positivity. I believe this with my solar plexus/chest more so then with my head my head has just gathered data and memories the feeling and intellectual center together has come up with this post.

I'm not sure that expressing thanks when good things happen will ward off the bad things, but it certainly couldn't hurt! ;) Most indigenous cultures seem to stress the importance of gratitude to Nature, however they conceive her, or to the beings that supply their life's necessities. As to Castenada's comment, I think he meant to hide your personal history from the world as it could open you up to attack. Those who are helping you along the path are a different matter. G. said pretty much the same thing when he talked about sincerity with everyone being a weakness.

 

[Mountain Crown]

Menna, thank you for the thread. I wasn't able to recognize this point of view while reading Beelzebub's' Tales. I wish my English to be more fluent to get into the deep. So far I can say that for me the story with railway worker is about interactions. We give, and we receive. What we give and what we receive depends of our awareness. Imagine consciousness being a vessel with water. All people are like a system of communicating vessel. We do communicate, don't we? Sometimes we even network.

As an example of negative communication I can picture a married couple whos passion is gone. Instead of warm feelings towards each other, to compensate the lose by having constant quarel.

Barbara O'Brien in "Operators and Things" has an interesting example of acting in situation of negative interaction. She speaks with guy who delivers milk to the household without supressing her true feelings towards him. Tells everything that she think about him and his attitude towards other people. And it works!

Something regarding the interaction topic could be seen in Carlos Castanedas work.
To be careful/gentle with the world,
to hide ones personal history (what is the purpose of gossiping by the way?),
to make death your advisor,
to interact with petty tyrants...

My thoughts in response to yours.

I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on these Castaneda points you have made? Particularily the one about hiding ones personal history. How can this be a good thing?

Here's a quote from "Journey to Ixtlan"

(Don Juan speaking to Castaneda) "Your father knows everything about you", he said. "So he has you all figured out. He knows who you are and what you do, and there is no power on earth that can make him change his mind about you". Don Juan said that everybody that knew me had an idea about me, and that I kept feeding the idea with everything I did. "Don't you see ?", he asked dramatically. "You must renew your personal history by telling your parents, your relatives, and your friends everything you do. On the other hand, if you have no personal history, no explanations are needed; nobody is angry or disillusioned with your acts. And above all no one pins you down with their thoughts.".

(...) "But that's absurd", I protested. "Why shouldn't people know me ? What's wrong with that ?"; "What's wrong is that once they know you, you are an affair taken for granted and from that moment on you won't be able to break the tie of their thoughts. I personally like the ultimate freedom of being unknown. No one knows me with steadfast certainty, the way people know you, for instance". "But that would be lying". "I'm not concerned with lies or truths", he said severely. "Lies are lies only if you have personal history".

 

[Menna]

So far I can say that for me the story with railway worker is about interactions. We give, and we receive. What we give and what we receive depends of our awareness. Imagine consciousness being a vessel with water. All people are like a system of communicating vessel. We do communicate, don't we?

Yes, we communicate in many ways with words, body, energy, thoughts and vibrations we communicate with living things on earth and we also communicate with the world and universe. This story is about interactions, however I was bringing the point of interactions with the universe and how to better it in our own lives so that the communication/interaction with the universe is more positive.

 

[BHelmet]

So far I can say that for me the story with railway worker is about interactions. We give, and we receive. What we give and what we receive depends of our awareness. Imagine consciousness being a vessel with water. All people are like a system of communicating vessel. We do communicate, don't we?

Yes, we communicate in many ways with words, body, energy, thoughts and vibrations we communicate with living things on earth and we also communicate with the world and universe. This story is about interactions, however I was bringing the point of interactions with the universe and how to better it in our own lives so that the communication/interaction with the universe is more positive.

Very interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it to consciousness.

But perhaps it is a bit like playing Jedi mind tricks with ourself/ourselves. (to which I am no stranger) If I try to discern a mechanical pattern of action or even a state of being by which I can improve my chances of a 'good' outcome; it necessarily is coming from my own subjectivity since it is I who defines 'good outcome'. Kind of like watching my kid play sports and trying to 'do things' or 'be' in such a way that he and his team have a positive outcome. It is utter hubris anyway. ("Dang! I should have sat in the row behind the team bench rather than pacing the sidelines... or vice versa" or "I should have relaxed and detached instead of rooting too hard and being too amped up" etc etc etc)

Furthermore, the universe/cosmos is a very fickle prankster. In my experience, no particular type of action or state of being definitely guarantees any particular outcome. Especially if I say anything about it to anybody in advance. I have to keep it to myself. But even that only improves outcomes to some varying degree and is still not an absolute guarantee of anything. I test this all the time. With people...on the golf course... etc. At least, that is the 'reading error function' of my particular machine, anyway.

So, yeah... if we make what naturally occurs in the universe to be what we consider a good outcome...

But THAT doesn't work either since we end up having to accept a bunch of lousy outcomes that are clearly 'not good'

Ugh: "RUN, LUKE, RUN!"

OK, enough with the jokes. I do try to project my field of awareness of the issues at hand into the situation or beings involved from a 'knowledge protects' point of view. But even THAT is not a guarantee either if the people involved react from the lower self, or deny, or self-calm or whatever.

But the bottom-bottom line is that gravity decides anyway! Yeah, align yourself with gravity! Or try to learn to sense gravities chosen outcome... brother, I give up. (for now) But here is the answer, OSIT:

A: Gravity is manipulated by sound when thought manipulated by gravity chooses to produce sound which manipulates gravity.

 

[obyvatel]

In reading the book Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson - G in the begining of the book makes a point to say "a stick has two ends" obvious metaphor. He then goes on to tell the story about a person that worked around the rail road who's job it was to ring the bell to wake up the rail road workers and thus everyone in the town. After he started his job he began to feel ill shortly after he performed his bell ringing duties. After the bell ringer spent some time with a local friend the "dog catcher" he had a hunch as to why he began to feel ill. One day he was out with his dog catcher friend and as the dog catcher was taking out his net to catch a dog the church bells rang and scared away the dog. He started to curse the church bells and get very mad. This rail road bell ringer came to the realization that he must have been feeling ill because the towns people cursed him for waking them up so early every morning so he started this new technique of cursing and getting angry moments before he rang the bell. Since starting this new technique he started to feel better after ringing the bell and no longer became ill.

The person in charge of operating the whistle is introduced as the Karapet of Tiflis. There is an old Armenian Church in Tiflis called St Karapet - it still apparently survives in modern Tbilisi. Also, Karapet is an old (pre-Christian) Armenian god of thunder.

The story of the whistle is nested within the story of the dog and the dog-catcher. The stories are related. In the dog catcher story, the dog about to be captured and sent to the slaughterhouse escapes his fate when the church bell rings and alerts him. Bells have long been used as an alarm or shock to bring people to attention in the midst of their daily activities - which for most take place in a state of sleep-walking. The Karapet of Tiflis operates the whistle that wakes up the people of Tiflis from their slumber.

The underlying theme seems to be a mechanism that disturbs others in their slumber. The activity earns the Karapet of Tiflis the ire of others. He does what he has to do - i.e operate the whistle. To mitigate the ill-effects from others curses, he develops a ritual of cursing them before he operates the whistle. How this works I do not know. What I do find worth mention is the description of the state of the Karapet of Tiflis as he goes through his ritual. He is described as "solemn" , like a mullah calling from the minaret. This indicates that what he is doing is like a sacred duty. Per my understanding, Gurdjieff sets the stage for the book with this introduction - in other words his job is like that of the Karapet of Tiflis. He would wake people up and face thie ire when their fond reveries about life are disturbed by reading the book.


[quote author=Menna]
Based off what I have read in Beelzebub G's book so far - after mentation about the quote, passage above, my friends comment and my experiences in life I came to the conclusion that it is important to recognize and give thanks/appreciation after a "good thing" has happened in your life. Recognizing the "good thing" and saying thank you in your head or with voice or however you want to - to the universe for providing the dynamic, vibrations and energy for the positivity is important. Will this help mitigate the bad - the other end of the stick from appearing? I just started this practice too early to tell. I am posting this because I believe this might help keep one from negativity more so than if they didn't practice recognizing and giving thanks to positivity. I believe this with my solar plexus/chest more so then with my head my head has just gathered data and memories the feeling and intellectual center together has come up with this post.

[/quote]

For a long time I have followed the practice of mentally thanking the universe in any situation which turned out to be favorable when it could easily have turned out otherwise. It was an instinctive thing, not learned. I do not know if this mitigates the other side of the stick. I believe that it is worthwhile to strive for thankfulness that is free from a desire to cling to good outcomes and its usual background companion - fear of facing the other side of the stick. In other words accept and acknowledge the good things that come our way with a thankful heart without clinging to them. It is natural to prefer good and positive things, as long as this prefererence does not turn into a demand.

Negativity is as much a part of reality as positivity. So it will inevitably come. When it does, what helps is to expand the field of vision from the trees to the forest and move from "what I like or dislike" to understanding the bigger meaning of what is transpiring. Also, knowledge helps mitigate some effects of negativity. It comes, but with awareness, its effects can be better contained and understood.

 

[Zee Ley]

I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on these Castaneda points you have made? Particularily the one about hiding ones personal history. How can this be a good thing?

For me it is about choosing what to keep to yourself and what to give, to share with others. I assume that only the best of me, you, anybody should be shown on surface but neither complainting, nor envy, fears, anger or any other programming. Yet I realize that staying passive in a face of something that I feel is not right is a mistake as well.
Again I wish to explain it better but very often I don't find correct words to do that. Working on that:)

 

[RflctnOfU]

In reading the book Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson - G in the begining of the book makes a point to say "a stick has two ends" obvious metaphor. He then goes on to tell the story about a person that worked around the rail road who's job it was to ring the bell to wake up the rail road workers and thus everyone in the town. After he started his job he began to feel ill shortly after he performed his bell ringing duties. After the bell ringer spent some time with a local friend the "dog catcher" he had a hunch as to why he began to feel ill. One day he was out with his dog catcher friend and as the dog catcher was taking out his net to catch a dog the church bells rang and scared away the dog. He started to curse the church bells and get very mad. This rail road bell ringer came to the realization that he must have been feeling ill because the towns people cursed him for waking them up so early every morning so he started this new technique of cursing and getting angry moments before he rang the bell. Since starting this new technique he started to feel better after ringing the bell and no longer became ill.

The person in charge of operating the whistle is introduced as the Karapet of Tiflis. There is an old Armenian Church in Tiflis called St Karapet - it still apparently survives in modern Tbilisi. Also, Karapet is an old (pre-Christian) Armenian god of thunder.

The story of the whistle is nested within the story of the dog and the dog-catcher. The stories are related. In the dog catcher story, the dog about to be captured and sent to the slaughterhouse escapes his fate when the church bell rings and alerts him. Bells have long been used as an alarm or shock to bring people to attention in the midst of their daily activities - which for most take place in a state of sleep-walking. The Karapet of Tiflis operates the whistle that wakes up the people of Tiflis from their slumber.

The underlying theme seems to be a mechanism that disturbs others in their slumber. The activity earns the Karapet of Tiflis the ire of others. He does what he has to do - i.e operate the whistle. To mitigate the ill-effects from others curses, he develops a ritual of cursing them before he operates the whistle. How this works I do not know. What I do find worth mention is the description of the state of the Karapet of Tiflis as he goes through his ritual. He is described as "solemn" , like a mullah calling from the minaret. This indicates that what he is doing is like a sacred duty. Per my understanding, Gurdjieff sets the stage for the book with this introduction - in other words his job is like that of the Karapet of Tiflis. He would wake people up and face thie ire when their fond reveries about life are disturbed by reading the book.


[quote author=Menna]
Based off what I have read in Beelzebub G's book so far - after mentation about the quote, passage above, my friends comment and my experiences in life I came to the conclusion that it is important to recognize and give thanks/appreciation after a "good thing" has happened in your life. Recognizing the "good thing" and saying thank you in your head or with voice or however you want to - to the universe for providing the dynamic, vibrations and energy for the positivity is important. Will this help mitigate the bad - the other end of the stick from appearing? I just started this practice too early to tell. I am posting this because I believe this might help keep one from negativity more so than if they didn't practice recognizing and giving thanks to positivity. I believe this with my solar plexus/chest more so then with my head my head has just gathered data and memories the feeling and intellectual center together has come up with this post.

For a long time I have followed the practice of mentally thanking the universe in any situation which turned out to be favorable when it could easily have turned out otherwise. It was an instinctive thing, not learned. I do not know if this mitigates the other side of the stick. I believe that it is worthwhile to strive for thankfulness that is free from a desire to cling to good outcomes and its usual background companion - fear of facing the other side of the stick. In other words accept and acknowledge the good things that come our way with a thankful heart without clinging to them. It is natural to prefer good and positive things, as long as this prefererence does not turn into a demand.

Negativity is as much a part of reality as positivity. So it will inevitably come. When it does, what helps is to expand the field of vision from the trees to the forest and move from "what I like or dislike" to understanding the bigger meaning of what is transpiring. Also, knowledge helps mitigate some effects of negativity. It comes, but with awareness, its effects can be better contained and understood.
[/quote]

Another connection with the dog-catcher/dog are short references throughout the tales to dogs. I think all of these ought to be taken as one complete statement...a la G's self-admitted 'scatter brained trick'.

Kris

 

[Menna]

To mitigate the ill-effects from others curses, he develops a ritual of cursing them before he operates the whistle. How this works I do not know.

I don't know either but it does work and this is what I based my post around and I am trying to find out what universal law that allows this to work to help block the negativity of others towards him?

Negativity is as much a part of reality as positivity. So it will inevitably come....When it does, what helps is to expand the field of vision from the trees to the forest and move from "what I like or dislike" to understanding the bigger meaning of what is transpiring....Also, knowledge helps mitigate some effects of negativity. It comes, but with awareness, its effects can be better contained and understood.

I agree that it will inevitably come but the degree of negativity that comes your way can be reduced? No?

I agree looking at the bigger meaning/picture helps reduce the stress and anxiety that the negative thing natural causes.

Exactly knowledge can help mitigate negativity however the first quote deals with something other than knowledge it deals with forces, energy, vibrations. I am posting this on the forum as we deal in the esoterica and this idea of balancing out the village peoples negativity with his own negativity is very esoteric and hard to measure by normal means.

I do believe and it is just a belief so I can be wrong - it is obviouse that there is negativity and positivity however we do transmute vibrations/energy that come to us. We are in a preverbal box being food for the moon and part of organic life but we also do have an impact and will all of the working that allow us to have an impact I believe that with these workings we can stay closer to the middle of the stick if not 60% positive and 40% negative making life more efficient when working toward an aim.

 

[David]

To mitigate the ill-effects from others curses, he develops a ritual of cursing them before he operates the whistle. How this works I do not know.

I don't know either but it does work and this is what I based my post around and I am trying to find out what universal law that allows this to work to help block the negativity of others towards him?

The sign rule, might apply...

(-) x (-) = positive (-) x (+) = negative (+) X (+) = positive (if that’s correct)

Maybe on one level, it just means acting in favour of ones ‘life’, or feel the pain, and do it anyway - expletive it all, and ring the bell, or whistle...

Though the main way I see it, for the moment - the village is that little internal village, nestled in what ever internal landscape, all the village I’s, and the dog catcher, and that dynamic there...

And in general life, the neighbouring village that has no dog catcher, that might blame its dog problem on ones village... or indeed if your bell is so loud, as to wake the neighbouring village - well they might not be so pleased, curses might indeed become real difficult to solve... And oops everybody gets the wrong end of the stick. Entropy maybe.

Negativity is as much a part of reality as positivity. So it will inevitably come....When it does, what helps is to expand the field of vision from the trees to the forest and move from "what I like or dislike" to understanding the bigger meaning of what is transpiring....Also, knowledge helps mitigate some effects of negativity. It comes, but with awareness, its effects can be better contained and understood.

{snip}

I do believe and it is just a belief so I can be wrong - it is obviouse that there is negativity and positivity however we do transmute vibrations/energy that come to us. We are in a preverbal box being food for the moon and part of organic life but we also do have an impact and will all of the working that allow us to have an impact I believe that with these workings we can stay closer to the middle of the stick if not 60% positive and 40% negative making life more efficient when working toward an aim.

The negativity, could be considered like the hammer blow from the blacksmith, how you handle everything, is your vibrations osit. Though perhaps, everybody is in the furness, some things being burned up, some things in the process of being formed, and tempered in one fashion, or another.

Perhaps it boils down to, conscious suffering or unconscious suffering... a little bit of both sometimes, maybe what's precieved as positive, might be unconscious suffering... difficult to know, untill after a lesson. osit darn it!

 

[BHelmet]

To mitigate the ill-effects from others curses, he develops a ritual of cursing them before he operates the whistle. How this works I do not know.

I do believe and it is just a belief so I can be wrong - it is obviouse that there is negativity and positivity however we do transmute vibrations/energy that come to us. We are in a preverbal box being food for the moon and part of organic life but we also do have an impact and will all of the working that allow us to have an impact I believe that with these workings we can stay closer to the middle of the stick if not 60% positive and 40% negative making life more efficient when working toward an aim.

I was just in the ocean today. When a wave comes in and hits me and I am just standing there, relaxed, it strikes me with a lot of disruptive force. But when I tense up and launch myself into the wave as it gets to me, I do not feel very much force from the wave and do not get knocked around.

Perhaps the same thing - the same law embodied in a different circumstance.

 

[BHelmet]

The negativity, could be considered like the hammer blow from the blacksmith, how you handle everything, is your vibrations osit. Though perhaps, everybody is in the furness, some things being burned up, some things in the process of being formed, and tempered in one fashion, or another.

Perhaps it boils down to, conscious suffering or unconscious suffering... a little bit of both sometimes, maybe what's precieved as positive, might be unconscious suffering... difficult to know, until after a lesson. osit darn it!

Very nice points.

Again - what is negativity? Isn't it generally mostly subjective? OK, so a specific curse from a specific person may be an objectively negative assault. Negative is a general word but certainly there are different types and categories of negativity that can be distinguished. Does the same law or technique apply for each type of negativity? Do we need to define the type of negativity in order to execute the right mumbo-jumbo?