How Darwin, Huxley, and Esalen launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolution

[Bernhard]

Jan Irvin of _http://www.gnosticmedia.com has recently put out some interesting work relating to Darwin, Huxley, the Esalen Institute and the creation of the 2012 and Psychedelic Movement.

I haven't seen it posted on the forum yet, so I wanted to start a thread about this topic for further discussion. Irvin has collected quite a lot of data and information, which I haven't looked through all of it. However, some of the connections he makes are very interesting and tie into the "Human Potential Movement" COINTELPRO.

His findings can be viewed here: _http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-4411

How to view the information in the database::
_http://www.gnosticmedia.com/links/brain/

It started with this article/podcast:

“Magic Mushrooms and the Psychedelic Revolution: Beginning a New History” – or “The Secret History of Magic Mushrooms”
_http://www.gnosticmedia.com/magic-mushrooms-and-the-psychedelic-revolution-beginning-a-new-history-or-the-secret-history-of-magic-mushrooms-by-jan-irvin-144-2/

Six years in the making, this episode exposes one of the largest coverups in modern academic history – something that may one day be regarded as large as the Piltdown Hoax. We’re going to reveal how the psychedelic revolution was launched by the CFR, CIA and the elite, and how R. Gordon Wasson, the so called discoverer of magic mushrooms, and the founder of the field of ethnomycology, was himself a government asset, a friend of Edward Bernays – the father of propaganda, and is one of the key figures for launching one of the largest mind control operations in history – information never before revealed until today. And it doesn’t stop there. I’m going to provide information that shows how R. Gordon Wasson may have been one of the key players in the organization of the JFK assassination.

His ongoing updated article:
How Darwin, Huxley, and the Esalen Institute launched the 2012 and psychedelic revolutions – and began one of the largest mind control operations in history.
_http://www.gnosticmedia.com/how-darwin-huxley-and-the-esalen-institute-launched-the-2012-and-psychedelic-revolutions-and-began-one-of-the-largest-mind-control-operations-in-history/

Video:
On the Huxleys, Gordon Wasson, Terence McKenna, Esalen, Psychedelics, 2012 & Mind Control
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b9OvRAKfzw

This video is the first to reveal the background origins of the Esalen institute through Aldous and Julian Huxley, both grandson's of Charles Darwin's "Bulldog" Sir. Thomas Henry Huxley. The Huxleys helped found the Esalen institute to promote Julian Huxley's eugenics, humanism, transhumanism and feminism to manipulate middle class Americans into following their agenda through psychedelics and the new age movement.

Having been to Esalen myself to study bodywork ( Ida Rolf (founder of Rolfing) used to teach as Esalen and I studied under one of her students), I found his comments about the Institute interesting. Spending time there (a series of bodywork workshops for five days at a time) I was surprised about the lack of critical thinking, especially when it comes to global issues (9/11, Zionism, Psychopathy, etc..). An institute that is claiming to help people "evolve" and "heal" and become "conscious" would imply to help them to become more conscious/aware of the issues our world is facing, not shutting them out with contrived "positivist spirituality", but teaching them how to use their minds and think critically. I know of some people who have spent extensive time at Esalen (months to years) that have a hard time dealing with "real life" outside the bubble at Esalen. Jan talks about that in his video as well.

Having said that, I did learn a great deal about bodywork being there, which was my main intention anyway. Truth is mixed with lies. However, it was certainly shocking to see the denial and avoidance when I brought up so-called "taboo subjects" at a place with supposedly "conscious" and "aware" people around. Some of the people have attacked me viciously (interestingly with lots of emotionally charged anger, not very "Love and Light" at all), especially on facebook, when questioning their "sacred cows". I guess it proves the COINTELPRO aspect of Esalen even more.

Jan's research into the corruption and essentially creation of the psychedelic and new age movement is certainly a thorn in the eyes of many people. He's been attacked a lot (I follow his posts on Facebook) for his discoveries. Interestingly, none of the attackers actually challenge him on the facts, but usually react emotionally and/or with logical fallacies when trying to debunk his findings. Most of the attacks come from people of the "psychedelic movement".

Jan's research confirms in parts my own findings and experiences with the "psychedelic movement" (see my article "2012 – Collective Awakening or End of the World?" http://www.sott.net/article/248735-2012-Collective-Awakening-or-End-of-the-World ) as well as with Esalen, which certainly has a darker side to it I couldn't ignore noticing myself when spending time there.

His exposure of Terence McKenna also confirms some of my own ideas regarding him. Jan makes some very interesting connections. It's a work in progress that brings up more questions but also gives clues to how spirituality and the "human potential movement" has been corrupted and conditioned to accept a certain "view of reality" that actually works in favor of the powers that be, making people complacent and pacifying them with corrupted "quantum physics" spirituality that claims that only YOUR subjective reality matters and that there is no objective reality.

Some topics he's missing is Psychopathy and the hyperdimensional aspect of our reality. I've sent him Laura's article "Aliens and Cosmic COINTELPRO" http://cassiopaea.org/2010/09/18/aliens-and-cosmic-cointelpro/ as well as links to "Political Ponerology" and "The Secret History of the World", but haven't heard back from him about it yet.

In his video he mentions Chemtrails and he seems to buy into that "conspiracy". However truth is mixed with lies and just because he's wrong about something, doesn't necessarily mean he's off about everything else he talks about, imo. But as I said, I haven't fully looked into his findings yet, but maybe others on here have also come across his work and can comment on it as well.

This topic seems also to tie in with Gregory's latest article about John Major Jenkins and his 2012 agenda. http://www.sott.net/article/251921-John-Major-Jenkins-The-Mayans-2012-and-all-that-Jazz

 

[seek10]

So many mind blowing connections in the video . He is also saying castaneda is connected to this network (wason). Only thing missing in this is pedophile network.

 

[LQB]

So many mind blowing connections in the video . He is also saying castaneda is connected to this network (wason). Only thing missing in this is pedophile network.

It is an interesting talk and claim that a CIA Prof was responsible for injection of the first "2012" myth.

On Esalen, I couldn't agree more. My Uncle (and his wife) were caught up there for a while in the early days. They still wax nostalgic about those "good old" Esalen days. Today, they refuse to see things as they really are and continue to feed the idea that there is a political solution. There is an undercurrent of eugenics (in them) and the belief that humans (alone) are the problem.

Jan's brain database might be very interesting to have a hard look at.

 

[dugdeep]

I watched this video when it was posted to Facebook last week and found it to be an extremely interesting discussion. But the thing that caught me most was Irvin's discussion of the Trivium. He has a site called triviumeducation.com

[quote author=triviumeducation.com]
The Trivium method: (pertains to mind) – the elementary three. General Grammar, Aristotelian Logic, and Classical Rhetoric comprise the first three rules-based subjects of the 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences. As these disciplines are learned and practiced together, they form the overarching, symbiotic system for establishing clarity and consistency of personal thought called the Trivium.

[1] General Grammar
(Answers the question of the Who, What, Where, and the When of a subject.) Discovering and ordering facts of reality comprises basic, systematic Knowledge

[2] Formal Logic
(Answers the Why of a subject.) Developing the faculty of reason in establishing valid [i.e., non-contradictory] relationships among facts, systematic Understanding

[3] Classical Rhetoric
(Provides the How of a subject.) Applying knowledge and understanding expressively comprises Wisdom or, in other words, it is systematically useable knowledge and understanding
[/quote]

The Trivium is reportedly how all people were educated going back at least 6 millenia, but it has been systematically removed from our education system over the last 200 years or so (no surprise there). The system is apparently a means of learning "how to think" and while it should be taught from childhood, one can play catch-up later in life.

I won't get into it too much here, so as not to detract from the topic of the thread, but I find Irvin's presentation of this material to be of real value and I've been pursuing it rather voraciously since I discovered it/Irvin. I've been following a lesson on Aristotelian logic for the last few days and am actually finding it rather remarkable and organizing my thoughts.

 

[SethianSeth]

Wonderful idea to send Jan some of the material about Ponerology, Spiral Out! You noted my main red-flags reflecting gaps in information that seem to exist in his work, but it seems to me like he is a sincere researcher and should be open to the new info if this is true. I will be very interested to hear if he gets back to you about it.

I appreciate you starting this thread. I have been finding Jan's work with both the trivium and cointelpro to be quite fascinating, and I learned a lot already from parsing through the info so far. Right before I found this forum and LKJ's work, I was deeply fascinated by McKenna so I really enjoyed the dot connecting he uses to expose a completely different perspective on the man's work. Such a wonderful learning process when the topsy-turvy thing happens and everything that was up is down, etc. One of the main reasons I love Laura's work so much! His webbrain seems like a really useful resource, as well...

 

[obyvatel]

I watched this video when it was posted to Facebook last week and found it to be an extremely interesting discussion. But the thing that caught me most was Irvin's discussion of the Trivium. He has a site called triviumeducation.com

[quote author=triviumeducation.com]
The Trivium method: (pertains to mind) – the elementary three. General Grammar, Aristotelian Logic, and Classical Rhetoric comprise the first three rules-based subjects of the 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences. As these disciplines are learned and practiced together, they form the overarching, symbiotic system for establishing clarity and consistency of personal thought called the Trivium.

[1] General Grammar
(Answers the question of the Who, What, Where, and the When of a subject.) Discovering and ordering facts of reality comprises basic, systematic Knowledge

[2] Formal Logic
(Answers the Why of a subject.) Developing the faculty of reason in establishing valid [i.e., non-contradictory] relationships among facts, systematic Understanding

[3] Classical Rhetoric
(Provides the How of a subject.) Applying knowledge and understanding expressively comprises Wisdom or, in other words, it is systematically useable knowledge and understanding

The Trivium is reportedly how all people were educated going back at least 6 millenia, but it has been systematically removed from our education system over the last 200 years or so (no surprise there). The system is apparently a means of learning "how to think" and while it should be taught from childhood, one can play catch-up later in life.

I won't get into it too much here, so as not to detract from the topic of the thread, but I find Irvin's presentation of this material to be of real value and I've been pursuing it rather voraciously since I discovered it/Irvin. I've been following a lesson on Aristotelian logic for the last few days and am actually finding it rather remarkable and organizing my thoughts.
[/quote]

There has been a few on and off discussions about the trivium here. I listened to an interview of Jan Irvin talking about the trivium. There are legitimate points there about the general dumbing down of the population, insufficient critical thinking skills of the positivist and New Age movements etc. Then there is the implication that learning trivium is what makes the elites special and they use the trivium knowledge to pull wool over the eyes of the masses. If the masses learned the trivium, then they would see through all the machinations of the elite. That part seemed like an over- simplification of a complex phenomenon.

There have been a few people in the forum who either claimed to be educated on the trivium or put themselves up as logical thinkers. When their views were challenged, they usually left in a huff. One of the pet peeves was one type of logical fallacy called "ad hominem" attacks - where the person is questioned rather than the idea. While unjustified ad hominem attacks are often used to discredit legitimate research, in this forum we tend to follow Lobaczewski's prescription of questioning the author once certain pathological traits become apparent which then gets labeled as ad hominem by the person being questioned. This does not invalidate the trivium as a tool. But I think it is worthwhile to keep in mind that unless the ponerology concepts are integrated into one's understanding, application of the trivium alone is likely to lead people astray specially while dealing with pathological material.

Regarding the author Jan Irvin, he was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread Santa Claus regarding an earlier book he wrote about mushrooms. In his recent work, he has made a huge number of associations and it would likely take a lot of time to dig through and verify his claims.

His reaction to an admittedly uninformed criticism by another mushroom guy Simon Powell at
_http://www.gnosticmedia.com/into-the-mind-of-simon-g-powell-a-study-in-fallacious-logic/
seemed a little over the top to me, btw.

 

[Laura]

So many mind blowing connections in the video . He is also saying castaneda is connected to this network (wason). Only thing missing in this is pedophile network.

Yes. We've noted in several places that it seems that Castaneda borrowed a great deal from Gurdjieff and then associated his excellent alternative descriptions of The Work, along with truly useful ideas/techniques, with use of hallucinogens. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we also don't want to swallow lies sugar coated with truth.

 

[de-tached]

So many mind blowing connections in the video . He is also saying castaneda is connected to this network (wason). Only thing missing in this is pedophile network.

On Esalen, I couldn't agree more. My Uncle (and his wife) were caught up there for a while in the early days. They still wax nostalgic about those "good old" Esalen days. Today, they refuse to see things as they really are and continue to feed the idea that there is a political solution. There is an undercurrent of eugenics (in them) and the belief that humans (alone) are the problem.

Jan's brain database might be very interesting to have a hard look at.

Jan's work is very eye-opening, showing in detail how many icons of modern "New Age/ psychonaut spirituality" are merely CIA sponsored people who stole classical works and distorted them under a convoluted mask of regurgitated rhetoric, sprinkled with general spiritual insight and garnished with a feel-good gloss. It's the classic recipe to vector people who are exploring fringe topics in to the tunnelvision of escapism, psychedelics, and wildly spun logical fallacies that SOUND enticing, but have no factual basis.

From the looks of it, the history of Esalen seems somewhat resemblant of the infamous Laurel Canyon in certain respects, since it's largely responsible for the proliferation of psychedelics and the New Age movement in the Western US, echoing Laurel Canyon's hippie generation seeding.

Another part of Jan's research which I found fascinating reveals a network of connections which illustrates how Darwin's evolutionary ideas of "survival of the fittest" (as initially presented in “On the Origin of Species: by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life") were manipulated by the "scientific" and aristocratic communities to justify slavery and the subjugation of just about anyone who wasn't "in the club"- be they females, the poor, mentally ill, or anyone not white as snow. Then, how they did their dirty work through organizations which are still very active today. A great documentary about this issue is "Maafa 21" (...though there is some polarized religious anti-abortion propaganda to sift through which I felt hurts the documentary toward the end.)... I'd highly recommend it.

As Spiral Out mentioned, if Jan were more knowledgable about psychopathy, it would add a very important dimension which could potentially tie together the hereditary nature of psychopathy to the hereditary control and influence behind society through the corruption of critical thinking, ethnic cleansing by eugenic supporters tied in to "progressive organizations", and the de-railing of progressive social activism through escapism and the narcissistic numbing-out of reality.

Perhaps psychopathy would be a fine line to tread since many would try to distort the study of psychopathy as "eugenics", since often it revolves around genetics. Despite his previous research in the entheogens, he seems to be approaching his work from a very grounded, scientifically conservative manner, so I wouldn't hold my breath for him to bring on the hyperdimensional aspect at this point. Psychopathy, however, would be a logical step. The more support we can give him in backing up his efforts, the better. He's got a good thing going, imo.

 

[dugdeep]

Oops! Thought I'd posted this one but it was sitting in my drafts

I watched this video when it was posted to Facebook last week and found it to be an extremely interesting discussion. But the thing that caught me most was Irvin's discussion of the Trivium. He has a site called triviumeducation.com

[quote author=triviumeducation.com]
The Trivium method: (pertains to mind) – the elementary three. General Grammar, Aristotelian Logic, and Classical Rhetoric comprise the first three rules-based subjects of the 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences. As these disciplines are learned and practiced together, they form the overarching, symbiotic system for establishing clarity and consistency of personal thought called the Trivium.

[1] General Grammar
(Answers the question of the Who, What, Where, and the When of a subject.) Discovering and ordering facts of reality comprises basic, systematic Knowledge

[2] Formal Logic
(Answers the Why of a subject.) Developing the faculty of reason in establishing valid [i.e., non-contradictory] relationships among facts, systematic Understanding

[3] Classical Rhetoric
(Provides the How of a subject.) Applying knowledge and understanding expressively comprises Wisdom or, in other words, it is systematically useable knowledge and understanding

The Trivium is reportedly how all people were educated going back at least 6 millenia, but it has been systematically removed from our education system over the last 200 years or so (no surprise there). The system is apparently a means of learning "how to think" and while it should be taught from childhood, one can play catch-up later in life.

I won't get into it too much here, so as not to detract from the topic of the thread, but I find Irvin's presentation of this material to be of real value and I've been pursuing it rather voraciously since I discovered it/Irvin. I've been following a lesson on Aristotelian logic for the last few days and am actually finding it rather remarkable and organizing my thoughts.

There has been a few on and off discussions about the trivium here. I listened to an interview of Jan Irvin talking about the trivium. There are legitimate points there about the general dumbing down of the population, insufficient critical thinking skills of the positivist and New Age movements etc. Then there is the implication that learning trivium is what makes the elites special and they use the trivium knowledge to pull wool over the eyes of the masses. If the masses learned the trivium, then they would see through all the machinations of the elite. That part seemed like an over- simplification of a complex phenomenon.
[/quote]

That could be the case, but it makes sense that one's mind needs to be ordered in such a way as to be able to properly utilize it. It also makes sense that if one is familiar with the logical fallacies enough to be able to spot them, they can no longer be used effectively against them. I've begun to study logic since finding this material and can already feel my thoughts becoming more orderly, even to the extent of finding fallacies in my own thinking.

[quote author=obyvatel]
There have been a few people in the forum who either claimed to be educated on the trivium or put themselves up as logical thinkers. When their views were challenged, they usually left in a huff. One of the pet peeves was one type of logical fallacy called "ad hominem" attacks - where the person is questioned rather than the idea. While unjustified ad hominem attacks are often used to discredit legitimate research, in this forum we tend to follow Lobaczewski's prescription of questioning the author once certain pathological traits become apparent which then gets labeled as ad hominem by the person being questioned. This does not invalidate the trivium as a tool. But I think it is worthwhile to keep in mind that unless the ponerology concepts are integrated into one's understanding, application of the trivium alone is likely to lead people astray specially while dealing with pathological material.
[/quote]

Without knowing the specific instances you're referring to, it's hard to say, but it sounds like these individuals were misusing the logical fallacies. There is nothing illogical about examining the character or behaviour of an individual to find out his or her motivations and whether or not there is anything legitmate there. The logical fallacy of "ad hominem" is used to denote a situation where someone's ideas are being discredited by attacking their character (or something about them), while essentially ignoring the argument. It's only a fallacy if you attack the person in place of addressing the argument itself.

In other words, it would be a fallacy to say "person x say this, therefore it is untrue". Even a person in an insane asylum can assert that 2+2=4, ie. speak truth. But if person x says something, and we have no other evidence to go on, and person x is historically unreliable, or displays evidence of pathology, then it's perfectly logical to dismiss his or her argument, OSIT. After all, the onus of prooof is on the one who makes the claim.

I think you're right that an education in the trivium alone without integrating knowledge of ponerology would make one still able to be led astray. In fact, I don't think anything can replace or supercede knowledge of the ponerology framework. But, just speculating here, perhaps the learning of the trivium would make one more aware of, or more able to spot, the machinations of pathological individuals and groups.

 

[andi]

Interesting video!, thanks Spiral Out. There are a couple of things that put me off other then what its been already mentioned related to ponerology, like why am I not seeing connections made other then names and who did what. Like: " hey guys, look at those people that did that witch connects to those people that did this etc... do you understand what the IMPLICATIONS are?! " I may be really off, the guy isn't stretching much on the side of " lets figure how that is acting in our everyday life, and what are the ways out" other then asking logical questions like what, where, etc - witch seems to be much intelectualisation and little application. (I liked the guy by the way)
It's like the guy likes to do good research, but is only interested in research and investigations and that's it.

Something took my attention towards the end, he says he has never been harassed by police (and gouv. I believe) on his work and books. Then only at the end he mentions some bad responses by email.

 

[webglider]

quote by Sethian Seth:

Wonderful idea to send Jan some of the material about Ponerology, Spiral Out! You noted my main red-flags reflecting gaps in information that seem to exist in his work, but it seems to me like he is a sincere researcher and should be open to the new info if this is true. I will be very interested to hear if he gets back to you about it.

I've been spending some time on that site and find it very informative. I would really appreciate the link to the red-flags post that you mention above. I definitely need a guide to navigate this information.

 

[Bernhard]

There has been a few on and off discussions about the trivium here. I listened to an interview of Jan Irvin talking about the trivium. There are legitimate points there about the general dumbing down of the population, insufficient critical thinking skills of the positivist and New Age movements etc. Then there is the implication that learning trivium is what makes the elites special and they use the trivium knowledge to pull wool over the eyes of the masses. If the masses learned the trivium, then they would see through all the machinations of the elite. That part seemed like an over- simplification of a complex phenomenon.

There have been a few people in the forum who either claimed to be educated on the trivium or put themselves up as logical thinkers. When their views were challenged, they usually left in a huff. One of the pet peeves was one type of logical fallacy called "ad hominem" attacks - where the person is questioned rather than the idea. While unjustified ad hominem attacks are often used to discredit legitimate research, in this forum we tend to follow Lobaczewski's prescription of questioning the author once certain pathological traits become apparent which then gets labeled as ad hominem by the person being questioned. This does not invalidate the trivium as a tool. But I think it is worthwhile to keep in mind that unless the ponerology concepts are integrated into one's understanding, application of the trivium alone is likely to lead people astray specially while dealing with pathological material.

Regarding the author Jan Irvin, he was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread Santa Claus regarding an earlier book he wrote about mushrooms. In his recent work, he has made a huge number of associations and it would likely take a lot of time to dig through and verify his claims.

His reaction to an admittedly uninformed criticism by another mushroom guy Simon Powell at
_http://www.gnosticmedia.com/into-the-mind-of-simon-g-powell-a-study-in-fallacious-logic/
seemed a little over the top to me, btw.

I agree. He seems to be well versed in the Trivium, but that can also be a trap if it doesn't included sincere self-work and not questioning one's OWN thinking, not in terms of fact-checking, but also they way we take in information. I also think Irvin's responses to the attack he's receiving are over the top and also speak for his self-importance. A sound understanding of Psychopathy and Ponerology is also imperative and needed as a foundation.

 

[durabone]

Spiral Out: I appreciate your comments about undermining of the "Human Potential Movement."

The vectors of attack mentioned here are very sad, what horrors. Thanks for the well thought-out posts, everyone. What happened today was your words triggered a new connection I had not thought of.

Dan Smoot, in his 1960's "The Invisible Government " gives lots of names of both people and orgs. What he also states is that the elite made a command decision to finance study of economics, and that they both encouraged and funded universities and profoundly altered the percentage of graduates with degrees in economics.

Why? It's not on the topic of Jan or psychedelics, and I apologize for that. But if it is another vector of attack on the "Human Potential Movement," I'd like to understand it.

 

[webglider]

I'm really happy to have found the Gnostic Media site. I have wanted to study the trivium because it's obvious to me that Shakespeare studied it, and it is because of his understanding of language and psychology that he was able to portray the many psychologies of the many different characters that we encounter in his plays.

There is no doubt in my mind that Shakespeare was well aware of psychopaths - his depiction of Richard III in the play of the same name, Iago in Othello, Antony in Julius Caesar, and Macbeth to name a few. When I was teaching the plays, I studied rhetoric on my own so that I could teach what I had learned to my students, but since I wasn't following any systematic approach, my knowledge of rhetoric was and is very scatter shot.

But to go back to the origins of rhetoric, you would have to go back to Homer and The Iliad
The chieftains had to be great orators to command their armies, and since there are so many chieftains in The Iliad, you get a sense of the different styles that fit the different occasions that leaders need to employ to motivate their soldiers. In this way, the characters become real people whose words either further their aims or destroy them.

So, Homer gives Agamemnon the rhetoric of a bombastic fool, Odysseus the words of a shrewd observer of human nature, Achilles the words of a proud, unforgiving man who is willing to destroy his own army to get revenge on Agamemnon whose words shamed him before he entire Achaean army. As the Ancient Greek Culture was a shame based culture, to be insulted in front of the entire army as Agamemnon did to Achilles was to alienate the best fighter in the army who was also a demi-god whose mother had influence with Zeus, king of the gods.

It's also interesting the words given the demi-gods such as Helen whose abduction by Menelaus was the cause of the Trojan War. Her speeches, as were those of Achilles, filled with the personal pronoun "I". I makes me think that the ancient Greeks did know about the hyper-dimensional beings that were part human and part god and whose presence among ordinary people caused suffering which continues to this day. It's interesting that the words of the demi-gods, Helen and Achilles are always self-referencing. They seem to have no compassion for the devastation that they are causing.

But to get back to the Odysseus and his speech to Achilles which is considered the beginning of the art of rhetoric, you can find it below. If you study it, you can find that is broken into discrete parts each part fashioned specifically for a desired emotional impact that will sway Achilles into accepting Odysseus' plea. Odysseus was chosen because he was considered the best speaker in the army. But Achilles has already undergone a transformation in his understanding and is reevaluating the entire code of honor which is posited on one's valor in battle.

Just keep in mind all the different shifts in Odysseus' speech as Achilles' resistance forces Odysseus to keep changing his arguments in hopes of finding just the right one that will convince Achilles to return to battle:

Quote from Book IX
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/trojanwarinlit/a/IliadIX.htm

So Ajax and Odysseus walked beside the echoing sea, with many a heartfelt prayer to the god, who surrounds the land and shakes it, that softening the proud heart of Aeacus’ grandson might prove an easy task. And reaching the Myrmidons’ huts and ships, they found him delighting in the clear-toned lyre, playing a finely ornamented instrument bridged with silver, part of the spoils when he razed Eetion’s city. He was singing with joy of the deeds of mighty warriors, while Patroclus, seated opposite, heard his song through in silence. The two envoys arrived, Odysseus leading, and Achilles leapt to his feet in surprise, lyre in hand, while Patroclus too quitted his seat when he saw them. Achilles greeted them, saying: ‘Welcome, dear friends indeed – your coming here speaks of some great need – angry I may be, but you two Greeks I love more than most.’

With this, noble Achilles led them to his hut and seated them on chairs with purple coverings, then turned to Patroclus, saying: ‘Bring a larger bowl, son of Menoetius, mix a stronger drink, and give them both wine, these men I love dearly, who are here now under my roof.’

Patroclus hastened to obey his dear comrade. He set out a great wooden board in the firelight, laying out a sheep’s carcass and a goat’s, and the chine of a great hog, rich with fat. Automedon held them, while Achilles jointed them, then cut and spitted the joints. Meanwhile godlike Patroclus stoked the fire. When it burnt down, and the flames retreated, he raked the embers, and set the spits above them resting on andirons, after sprinkling the meat with sacred salt. When it was roasted, he heaped it on platters, Patroclus bringing bread set it out on the table in fine baskets, while Achilles served each portion. Then he took a seat by the wall, opposite godlike Odysseus, and asked Patroclus, his friend, to sacrifice to the gods. Then, when burnt offerings had been thrown into the fire, they helped themselves to the good things set before them.



Bk IX:222-306 The offer to Achilles


When they were sated, Ajax let Phoenix know, and noble Odysseus seeing his nod, filled his cup with wine and drank to Achilles: ‘Your health, Achilles, there’s plenty of good food for us here to warm our hearts, as much as in Agamemnon’s hut. But feasting is not what occupies us, ward of Zeus, since we foresee sorrow and feel great fear. I doubt we can save the benched ships from destruction, unless you arm yourself with your great valour. The brave Trojans and their famed allies are bivouacked close to the ships and wall, around their many fires, and say they are strong enough to swoop on our black ships. And Zeus, Son of Cronos, shows them good omens, with lightning on the right, while Hector exulting in his strength, and filled with frenzy, fears neither man nor god, but trusts in that same Zeus, and rages wildly. He prays for the swift coming of bright dawn, so he can hew the ships’ ensigns from their tall sterns, and consume their hulls with fire, smoking us out, and slaughtering all the Greeks beside them. My mind is full of fear, lest the gods fulfil his threat, and we are fated to die at Troy far from the horse-pastures of Argos.

But up, if you will, even now, and save the sons of Achaea, whose strength the Trojan war-noise saps. Or regret it ever after, since harm once done can never be retrieved. Before too late, think how to ward this evil from the Greeks. Good friend, did not Peleus, your father, warn you, on the day he sent you from Phthia to join Agamemnon: “Athene and Hera will empower you, my son, if they so wish. You, set a curb on your proud spirit, a gentle heart is best; avoid the quarrels that sow mischief, and the Greeks both young and old will honour you the more.” Did he not say those words that you forget? Even now it is not too late to quell this bitter anger. Should you relent Agamemnon offers you noble gifts. Listen and I will say what Agamemnon promises: seven tripods, unmarked by the flames; ten talents of gold; twenty gleaming cauldrons, and twelve strong horses, prize-winners for their speed. A man with the wealth they have won for him would not lack gold and riches. And he will give seven women, skilled in fine needle-craft, whom he chose as spoil for their surpassing beauty, on the day when Achilles took Lesbos. And one shall be her whom he took from you, that daughter of Briseus. He shall give you his solemn oath that he never took her to bed, never slept with her, as men are wont, great prince, to do with women. All these things shall straight away be yours; and if the gods grant we sack this great city of Priam, enter when we Greeks divide the spoils, and load your ship with gold and bronze, and pick the twenty loveliest women after Argive Helen. And if we return to Achaean Argos, finest of lands, you shall be a son to him, and he’ll honour you like his dear son Orestes, who is reared there among its riches. Three daughters he has too, in his noble palace, Chrysothemis, Laodice, and Iphianassa. You shall lead whichever you wish to Peleus’ house, without bride-price, and he will add a dowry, greater than any man yet gave with a daughter. Seven well-populated cities you shall have; Cardamyle, Enope, and grassy Hire; holy Pherae and Antheia with its deep meadows; lovely Aepeia, and vine-rich Pedasus. They are all near the sea, on his far border with sandy Pylos, and the men there own great flocks and herds. They will honour you with gifts like a god, acknowledging your sceptre, and will ensure your plans prosper.

He will do all this for you, if you lay aside your anger. But if your hatred of him and his gifts is too great, yet take pity at least on the army of weary Greeks, who will honour you like a god, for the great glory you must surely win in their eyes. You could kill Hector now, as he came upon you in his wild rage: he claims there is none like him among we Danaans who sailed here.’



Bk IX:307-429 Achilles’ answer


Then fleet-footed Achilles gave his answer: ‘Odysseus of the nimble wits, royal son of Laertes, I will tell you straight out how I feel, and how things must be, to save you sitting there beside me, dealing in endless talk. Hateful as Hades’ Gate, to me, is the man who thinks one thing and says another. So here is my decision. Neither Agamemnon nor any other Greek will change my mind, for it seems there is no gratitude for ceaseless battle with our enemies. He who fights his best and he who stays away earn the same reward, the coward and the brave man win like honour, death comes alike to the idler and to him who toils. No profit to me from my sufferings, endlessly risking my life in war. I am like the bird that brings every morsel she finds to her unfledged chicks, and goes hungry herself. I watched through many a sleepless night, and fought through many a blood-stained day, battling warriors for the sake of their women. Twelve island cities I captured by sea, and eleven throughout Troy’s fertile land, and took much fine treasure from each. All I gave to this Agamemnon, son of Atreus. He stayed behind by his swift ships, yet kept the lion’s share and gave out some tiny portion. What he gave as prizes to princes and generals they hold still, yet he takes mine from me alone of all the Greeks, he steals my woman, my heart’s darling. He can lie by her side and take his pleasure. Yet why do the Argives war with Troy? Why did Atreides gather an army and bring it here? Was it not because of fair-haired Helen? Are the sons of Atreus the only men on earth who love their women? Every sane and decent man loves his own and cherishes her, as I loved her with all my heart, though but a captive of my spear. Since he stole the prize from my hands, and cheats me, let him not try to win me now with his offers; he’ll not sway me, I know him too well.

Let him look to you, Odysseus, and the rest, if he wants to save the fleet from a fiery death. In my absence I see he has done much, built a wall and dug a fine broad stake-filled trench, yet still he can’t keep out man-killing Hector. As long as I fought with the Achaeans, Hector stayed close to the wall, not far from the Scaean Gate and the oak tree. He waited to fight me there in single combat, and barely escaped alive. But now, I do not wish to do battle with noble Hector. Tomorrow I sacrifice to Zeus and the other gods, then load and launch my ships. At break of dawn, if it interests you, you will see my fleet sail the teeming Hellespont, my crews straining at the oars. Then if the mighty Earth-shaker grants me a fair voyage, in three days I will reach Phthia’s deep soil. I left great wealth behind on this ill-starred voyage, I will take back even more, gold, and red bronze, grey iron and fair women, all that was mine by lot, all except my prize that Agamemnon, son of Atreus, stole in his arrogance.

Tell him openly all that I say, so the rest can take umbrage when he tries to cheat some other Greek, shameless as he is. Yet not shameless enough to look me in the face! I shall neither help by my advice or effort, so utterly has he cheated me and wronged me. He will not fool me with his words again, So much for him. Let him go swiftly to perdition, since Zeus the counsellor robs him of his wits.

As for his gifts they are hateful in my eyes, and not worth a hair. Even if he gave ten or twenty times what he has, and raised levies elsewhere, though it were all the wealth that flows to Orchomenus, or Egyptian Thebes, where the very houses are filled with treasure, and two hundred warriors with horse and chariot sally out from its hundred gates, not if he gave me as many gifts as the grains of sand or motes of dust, could he persuade me. First he must pay me fully in kind for this shame that stings my heart.

Nor will I wed his daughter, though as lovely as golden Aphrodite, as skilled in handiwork as bright-eyed Athene, not even then. Let him choose another Greek, more princely than me, who suits him better. If the gods protect me and I reach home, Peleus himself will find me a wife. There are plenty of Greek girls in Phthia and Hellas, daughters of leaders, the defenders of cities: from those I can choose a loving wife. Often my warm heart longed to wed a girl there, some fitting bride, and enjoy what aged Peleus has won. For, all the fabled peacetime wealth of populous Ilium, before we Greeks arrived, and all the treasure in rocky Pytho, beyond Apollo’s marble threshold, is not worth life itself. Cattle and fine sheep may be taken; tripods and chestnut steeds won, but neither taking nor winning can recall a man’s spirit once the breath has left his lips. My mother, divine silver-footed Thetis, spoke the alternative fates open to me on my way to death. Remain here and fight at the siege of Troy, forgo all home-coming, yet win endless renown; or sail home to my native land, lose fame and glory, but live a long life, and be spared an early end.

I advise you too to sail home. There is no hope of you conquering lofty Ilium, for far-echoing Zeus holds it carefully in his hand, and its people are full of courage. Now go and, as privileged elders, give my reply to the leaders of the Greeks, so they can think out some better way to save the ships and the army with them, since the depth of my anger forces this refusal. Let Phoenix though remain, and spend the night here. Then, he can sail home with me and my fleet in the morning: if he wishes to that is, I shall not force him.’

The scene does not end here. There is more persuasion from Achilles old tutor which also attempts an emotional pleas based on the father son bond, very important to the ancient Greeks. Here is what comes next:

Bk IX:430-526 Phoenix tells his history


They were all silent at his words, stunned by his stern refusal. Finally the old charioteer Phoenix, fearing as he did for the Greek fleet, spoke tearfully: ‘If you do intend to sail, great Achilles, so great the anger that possesses you, and refuse to save the ships from a fiery end, how can I stay alone, dear child, without you? Peleus, that aged horseman, sent me with you, that day you went from Phthia to join Agamemnon. A child you were, ignorant of war’s evils and the assembly where men find fame. That was why he made me your guardian, to teach you how to speak and act. So I could not bear to stay here without you, not though a god should take away my years and give me that strength of youth I had when I left Hellas, land of lovely women, fleeing a quarrel with my father, Amyntor, son of Ormenus. He loved his fair-haired mistress, and neglected my mother his wife, who begged me to seduce her and turn her against the old man. I consented and did so, but my father soon knew, and cursed me, called on the avenging Furies to make sure he’d never take any son of mine on his lap. And the deathless ones, Hades, the Zeus of the Underworld, and dread Persephone, fulfilled his curse. Enraged I sought to put my father to the sword, but some god restrained me, filling me with fear of public shame, of being reviled as a parricide among Greeks. Still, I could not bear to live in my hostile father’s house, though friends and kin gathered round and begged me to stay, slaughtering fine sheep and sleek shambling cattle, roasting fat hogs over the flames, and pouring wine in plenty from the old man’s jars. Nine nights they kept watch, in turn, stoking the fires, one lit beneath the colonnade of the walled court, one in the porch in front of my bedroom doors. But in the tenth night’s darkness, I levered open the doors of my room, and leapt the courtyard fence, unseen by maids or guards. Then I fled far through wide Hellas, reaching fertile Phthia, mother of flocks, where King Peleus welcomed me, and showed me the love a father shows his beloved only son and heir, granting me wealth and a subject people, as King of the Dolopes on Phthia’s far border.

And, loving you with all my heart, I formed you as you are, divine Achilles: you would refuse to feast in the hall or eat till I set you on my knee, filling your mouth with savoury titbits, touching the cup to your lips. And, child that you were, you would spatter my chest with wine and soak my tunic. But I suffered much for you and took great trouble, believing the gods would no longer send me a son of my own. I treated you as my son, divine Achilles, in hope that you might save me from some wretched fate.

So, conquer your proud spirit, Achilles, and don’t be so hard-hearted. The gods themselves may be swayed, despite their greater power, excellence and honour. The erring and sinful man in supplication may turn them from their path of anger, with incense, blessed vows, libations and the smoke of sacrifice. Prayers are the daughters of almighty Zeus, wrinkled and halting they are, with downcast eyes, following in the steps of wilful Pride. But Pride is swift-footed and strong, and soon outruns them all, and scours before them over the earth bringing men down. Prayers follow on behind trying to heal the hurt. He who respects those daughters of Zeus as they pass by, they hear his prayers and bless him. But he who is stubborn and rebuffs them, they beg Zeus, son of Cronos, to overtake with Pride, so he is brought down, and made to pay in full. So, Achilles, see that you honour the daughters of Zeus, who sway all men of noble mind. If Agamemnon failed to offer you gifts or promise more, but persisted in his furious anger, I would not tell you to swallow your pride and help the Greeks, however great their need. But now he promptly offers many gifts, and promises others later, and sends these warriors, the pick of the army, dearest to you of all the Greeks, to persuade you. Do not scorn their embassy here, or their words, though none can blame you for feeling anger. For have we not heard of men of old, warriors of great renown, who were swayed by gifts and persuaded by words, when a like fury gripped them?



Bk IX:527-605 The story of Meleager’s anger


Let me tell you, my friends, of one I recall, and of deeds of the past, the distant past. Once, the Curetes were fighting the stubborn Aetolians, with heavy losses on either side. The Aetolians were defending Calydon’s lovely city, the Curetes eager to capture and sack it, all because Artemis of the Golden Throne, angered that King Oeneus had failed to offer her first fruits of his rich orchards, brought evil to Calydon. Perhaps he forgot, and failed to notice, but, fatally blind, he sacrificed to the other gods and neglected that great daughter of Zeus alone. So, in her wrath, the child of Zeus and goddess of the hunt sent a fierce white-tusked wild boar against him, to waste his orchards, far and wide. It uprooted the trees and leveled them, branch and blossom.

It was Meleager who gathered huntsmen and hounds from a host of cities and killed the boar, so huge that it needed a mighty force to hunt it down, and not before many a man met his end. Yet even then the goddess stirred a quarrel over the shaggy carcass, between the Curetes, his uncles, and the brave Aetolians, regarding the head and hide.

As long as Meleager, beloved of Ares, was in the field, so long the Curetes suffered, and though they came in force were driven back from the walls. But when the anger that clouds the mind of men, even the wise, filled Meleager, a deep anger caused by his beloved mother, Althaea, he lay at home idle beside his wife. She was the lovely Cleopatra, child of slim-ankled Marpessa, Evenus’ child, and of Idas, the mightiest man on the face of the earth in those days, who raised his bow against Phoebus Apollo to keep Marpessa for his own. Her father and mother called Cleopatra, Alcyone, because the mother had mourned like the kingfisher with its plaintive call, when far-darting Apollo had snatched her child. Meleager lay there, nursing his anger, embittered by his mother’s curse. For he had killed an uncle, her brother, and she had knelt and beat on the fertile earth with her fists, and drowned her breast with tears, and called on Hades and dread Persephone to destroy her son. And the Fury that walks in the darkness of Erebus heard her, she of the pitiless heart.

The noise of the enemy soon reached the city gates. They were battering at the walls. So the Aetolian Elders sent their leading priests to beg Meleager’s help, promising him a mighty gift, the choice of fifty acres, half vineyard and half open farmland, from the fertile heart of the fair Calydonian plain. And the aged charioteer, King Oeneus, standing at the threshold of Meleager’s tall chamber, rattling the solid doors, beseeched his son, as his mother and sisters did too, though their strong pleas annoyed Meleager even more. Not even his dearest, most loyal friends could sway his heart. At last, when the Curetes were scaling the walls and setting fire to the great city, and his very room was under siege, his lovely wife beseeched him in tears, picturing all the suffering that comes to those whose city falls; the slaughter of the men, the houses wasted by fire, the fair women and children taken by strangers. Her list of evils stirred his heart, and he ran to don his shining armour. So, yielding to his conscience, he saved the Aetolians from disaster, though they gave him none of the gifts they had offered, despite their being saved.

Dear child, don’t be like-minded, or be led astray by a god. It will be harder work saving the ships once they are in flames. Stir yourself while gifts may be had and the Greeks will honour you like a god. Re-enter the war when the offer is gone, and though you may turn the tide of battle, they will show you far less honour.’



Bk IX:606-655 Achilles remains adamant


Swift-footed Achilles replied: ‘Phoenix, my father, my aged lord, beloved of Zeus, I have no need of such honour. I am honoured by what Zeus ordains for me, to stay by the beaked ships while there is breath in my body, and life in my limbs. And I tell you this, and take it to heart: do not try to sway my mind with shows of grief, on behalf of that warrior son of Atreus. Take care not to love him, and so incur my hatred, I who love you: better for me if you anger him who angers me. Share my kingdom and my honour, and let these men carry my answer, while you rest here on a soft bed. At dawn we will decide whether to go or stay.’

With this he signaled to Patroclus, with a nod of his head, to spread a comfortable bed for Phoenix, so the others might take the hint and leave the hut. Ajax, godlike son of Telamon, then spoke: ‘Odysseus of many wiles, Zeus-born son of Laertes, we should go, since we achieve nothing by staying here. We must hasten to give the news to the Greeks, who no doubt await us, bad though it is. Achilles’ proud heart has raised him to such a pitch of fury he forgets, harsh man that he is, his comrades’ love, with which we in the fleet honoured him above all others. He shows no pity! Yet a man accepts blood-money even from his brother’s or his son’s killer, and the killer is not expelled from the land if he pays the price to the next of kin, whose pride and feelings are appeased by such compensation. Achilles, the gods have hardened and poisoned your heart, all because of a girl, while we offer you seven, the best there are by far, and a host of gifts besides. So be gracious and show respect for your house, since we represent the Danaans here, and are keen to remain your closest and dearest friends of all the Achaeans.’

Swift-footed Achilles quickly replied: ‘Zeus-born Ajax, son of Telamon, what you last said my own heart echoes, yet it swells with anger when I recall how the son of Atreus shamed me before the Argives, as though I were some wanderer without rights. You must go and give my answer. I will think no more of war and bloodshed, till noble Hector, Priam’s warrior son, comes here slaughtering Greeks and setting the fleet aflame, and reaches the huts and ships of my Myrmidons. Only here, by my hut, by my black ship, will Hector be stopped, however inspired he is in battle.’

 

[name]

So many mind blowing connections in the video . He is also saying castaneda is connected to this network (wason). Only thing missing in this is pedophile network.

I have been looking at Esalen within the context of the Szimhart issue. There may actually be a possible indirect connection to paedophilia and more.
What I found is a horse ranch in a valley north of LA which is "keen on horses" and advertises itself as "home of the pink pussycat" within that general culture. What connections do those two phrases bring to mind? I found that "Pink Pussycat" is a gogo bar somewhere in FL and it has me wondering to no end what that and horses have to do with "human potential". You can also look for "Pink Pussycat on Google and look at the pictures it brings up - and turn "safe search" off.


Looking at the pics of the people in Esalen makes what Spiral Out relates come true. To me they come across as employees feigning whatever the job needs and, well, politically correct. Not people I'd trust to touch me. And then Esalen subscribes to the vegetarian orthodoxy.


Apart from Huxley who at least officially was only marginally involved, there was that Alan Watts guy originally from England, who later became a Presbyterian priest in northeast USA and then made himself a name as a taoist - even I read one of his books, and the third founder was a jew whose name escapes me now who was involved with USAF Intel and who flew bombing raids during the Korea war.



BTW, Esalen is big in international politics, apparently bigger than most would suspect such a "psychedelic" institution to be. They have current connections to CSIS and a bunch of other rather disgusting zio outfits through a project of theirs. One of the alumni of their seminaries is Ovadia Josef, the (former) high rabbi of israel.