iChing Politics

A

atreides

Guest
Also, reply to this thread, I hate seeing 0s on the forum. 0 == ++bad
 

Appollynon

Jedi Master
Nice casting Atreides, kinda reminds me that if I don't act now with an enthusiasm that may help bring more of us together, then stopping these Pathocrats get away with war crimes in the Middle East will only get harder and harder.
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
atreides,
I'm not familiar with how a person does a IChing forecast. A brief explaination (how it is done, the format your posts follow, etc) on your main page may help people that are new to it and your site see the value in having a cast done.
 

Cyre2067

The Living Force
It was insightful to read, but i have no idea on the basis of IChing, I'd also benefit from a brief explanation.
 
A

atreides

Guest
Wikipedia said:
The I Ching ("Book of Changes" or "Classic of Changes") is the oldest of the Chinese classic texts. It describes an ancient system of cosmology and philosophy which is at the heart of Chinese cultural beliefs. The philosophy centers on the ideas of the dynamic balance of opposites, the evolution of events as a process, and acceptance of the inevitability of change (see Philosophy, below). In Western cultures, the I Ching is regarded by some as simply a system of divination; many believe it expresses the wisdom and philosophy of ancient China.
....

Among the many forms of divination is a method using the I Ching or Book of Changes. The book is structured as an 8x8 matrix of sixty-four hexagrams representing the states and the dynamic relationships of the eight elements, each represented by a trigram. Throughout China's region of cultural influence (including Korea, Japan and Vietnam), scholars have added comments and interpretation to this work, one of the most important in ancient Chinese culture; it has also attracted the interest of many thinkers in the West. See the I Ching main article for historical and philosophical information.

The process of consulting the book as an oracle involves determining the hexagram by a method of random generation and then reading the text associated with that hexagram, and is a form of bibliomancy.

Each line of a hexagram determined with these methods is either stable ("young") or changing ("old"); thus, there are four possibilities for each line, corresponding to the cycle of change from yin to yang and back again:

* old yin (yin changing into yang), which has the number 6 and symbol ---x---
* young yang (unchanging yang), which has the number 7 and symbol --------
* young yin (unchanging yin), which has the number 8 and symbol --- ---
* old yang (yang changing into yin), which has the number 9 and symbol ---o---

Once a hexagram is determined, each line has been determined as either changing (old) or unchanging (young). Since each changing line is seen as being in the process of becoming its opposite, a new hexagram can be formed by transposing each changing yin line with a yang line, and vice versa. Thus, further insight into the process of change is gained by reading the text of this new hexagram and studying it as the result of the current change.

Three-coin method

The three coin method came into currency over a thousand years later. The quickest, easiest, and most popular method by far, it has largely supplanted the yarrow stalks. However, it is significant that the probabilities of this method differ from the yarrow stalks.

Using this method, the probabilities of each type of line are as follows:

* old yang: 1 in 8 (0.125)
* old yin: 1 in 8 (0.125)
* young yang: 3 in 8 (0.375)
* young yin: 3 in 8 (0.375)

While there is one method for tossing three coins (once for each line in the hexagram), there are several ways of checking the results.

How the coins are tossed

* use three coins with distinct "head" and "tail" sides
* for each of the six lines of the hexagram, beginning with the first (bottom) line and ending with the sixth (top) line:
* toss all three coins
* write down the resulting line
* once six lines have been determined, the hexagram is formed

How the line is determined from the coin toss

The numerical method:

* assign the value 3 to each "head" result, and 2 to each "tail" result
* total all the coin values
* the total will be six, seven, eight or nine
* determine the current line of the hexagram from this number: 6 = old yin, 7 = young yang, 8 = young yin, 9 = old yang.

An alternative is to count the "tails":

* 3 tails = old yin
* 2 tails = young yang
* 1 tail = young yin
* 0 tails = old yang

Another alternative is this simple mnemonic based on the dynamics of a group of three people. If they are all boys, for example, the masculine prevails. But, if there is one girl with two boys, the feminine prevails! So:

* all tails = old yin
* one tail = young yin
* one head = young yang
* all heads = old yang
The casting of the I-Ching is influenced by alot of factors including the sub-conscious state of the caster, his/her openness to a response, intention etc. The actual method is unimportant, you can develop your own, I prefer the 3-coin method, I use 20 centimes pieces. When I have a moment, I will add an I-Ching Explanation to the Blog.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I use to play alot with I Ching book in my teenage days.

I think its only purpose is to suck up our energy. There is nothing divine about that book
it is just a clever trap for human ego.
 
Deckard, just curious, could you elaborate in what way I-Ching sucks up our energy? And do you feel the same about Tarot cards?
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
well yes
I think all these systems of divination are nothing else but a playground for our ego tarot cards included. And some of the decks that you can find around can potentially even be dangerous, talking about Toth Tarot designed by Crowley and Frida Hariss (nevertheless the most beautiful deck of all )

I do have more knowledge of The Book of Change popularly known as IChing..

From my exprience The Book of Change is cleverly designed trap that will never give you any valid guidance or beneficial answers. It will play with you in the same fashion any malicious entity would play with ignorant teenagers playing with Ouija board, giving them just the answers they wanna hear as long as it can thrive on their energy.
And I know people who got so hooked on this book that they couldnt go through the day without consulting the book, sometimes more then a dozen times a day. Some of these people ended quite badly, i.e one on drugs and the other two in mental institution - for me thats more then enough.

It is also implied that you have to treat the book with extreme adoration and reverence if you want it to work with you. Rituals, rituals and rituals so much so that it stinks of reptiles big time.

But that's just my humble opinion. :wink
 
Deckard said:
I know people who got so hooked on this book that they couldnt go through the day without consulting the book, sometimes more then a dozen times a day. Some of these people ended quite badly, i.e one on drugs and the other two in mental institution - for me thats more then enough.
That's an understandable turnoff. But it might say more about the users than the book itself... I guess compulsive behaviour exists in any area. Personally I don't know anyone who is drowned into I-Ching or Tarot.
 
A

atreides

Guest
Deckard said:
well yes
I think all these systems of divination are nothing else but a playground for our ego tarot cards included. And some of the decks that you can find around can potentially even be dangerous, talking about Toth Tarot designed by Crowley and Frida Hariss (nevertheless the most beautiful deck of all )

I do have more knowledge of The Book of Change popularly known as IChing..

From my exprience The Book of Change is cleverly designed trap that will never give you any valid guidance or beneficial answers. It will play with you in the same fashion any malicious entity would play with ignorant teenagers playing with Ouija board, giving them just the answers they wanna hear as long as it can thrive on their energy.
And I know people who got so hooked on this book that they couldnt go through the day without consulting the book, sometimes more then a dozen times a day. Some of these people ended quite badly, i.e one on drugs and the other two in mental institution - for me thats more then enough.

It is also implied that you have to treat the book with extreme adoration and reverence if you want it to work with you. Rituals, rituals and rituals so much so that it stinks of reptiles big time.

But that's just my humble opinion. :wink
I do not agree with anything you have stated. And personally, I find it all a bit insulting. This post is technically flaming, please refrain from insinuations about maturity, and attacks on the belief systems of others. If you disagree with a belief system or idea, please present facts and a civil argument.

You cannot negate hurtful words and barely disguised ego-centrism with "Just my humble opinion".

But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread them beneath your feet, tread softly, for you tread on my dreams.
 

kenlee

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Deckard said:
From my exprience The Book of Change is cleverly designed trap that will never give you any valid guidance or beneficial answers. It will play with you in the same fashion any malicious entity would play with ignorant teenagers playing with Ouija board, giving them just the answers they wanna hear as long as it can thrive on their energy.
And I know people who got so hooked on this book that they couldnt go through the day without consulting the book, sometimes more then a dozen times a day. Some of these people ended quite badly, i.e one on drugs and the other two in mental institution - for me thats more then enough.
When one asks for guidance it is still our 'I,' that is, it is our 'will,' that makes the decision and must take responsibility for our own choices. Responsibility is not something 'given' to us but it is something that must be taken and it is we who are responsible for it.

But to say that "The Book of Change is cleverly designed trap that will never give you any valid guidance" is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, most likey because of you drawing false assumptions and conclusions (based on emotional thinking) on those things that you think you understand but really do not.

I don't believe in the I Ching yet, of those few times I have gone to it I was absolutely astonished at its accuracy, insofar as to the relevence of its answers to those questions that I was asking it. So, I guess it can be said that I believe it without believing it. Sometimes I would think that it would be a good time to consult the I Ching. A peculiar " change of consciousness" would occur while I was consulting it. Or, perhaps, this peculiar "change of consciousness" occurred prior to my contacting it and, perhaps, this change of consciousness precipitated my "thoughts" to contacting it, from which I thought it was a "good idea" to contact it. I don't really know since linear time may not be a factor in this instance.

But in the end the decisions we make are still our own decicions, and are own responsibility.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
atreides said:
I do not agree with anything you have stated. And personally, I find it all a bit insulting. This post is technically flaming, please refrain from insinuations about maturity, and attacks on the belief systems of others. If you disagree with a belief system or idea, please present facts and a civil argument.

You cannot negate hurtful words and barely disguised ego-centrism with "Just my humble opinion".

But I, being poor, have only my dreams, I have spread them beneath your feet, tread softly, for you tread on my dreams.
Atreides I am really sorry if you found my opinion insulting.
That is a beautiful quote and I regret I didnt wrap my words in silk or satin, alas in this medium I try to express myself as concise as possible.

I expressed my opinion about IChing divination system based on years long observation and experience.
Can you really step out of ego-centrism when expressing your opinion?!

I never claimed I am the ultimate authority on the subject therefore my words should be taken having that in mind.

What I noticed about I ching is following:
- The whole concept is heavily ritualistic, somehow I have come to the conclusion that any path which is burdened with rituals is actually a deadend for a seeker.
It appears (TO ME) that rituals serve only to trap our energy. This opinion is based on different observations and valuable insights I was fortunate to get in recent years, Cassiopean material being just one of them.

Now what is really the purpose of any divination system ?!
This is how I see it:
The bottom line of any divination system be it tarot or The Book of Change lays in trying to find a shortcut to deal better with our evryday life. This is usually achieved through mastering some special skill or power unknown to most of the people which will enable us to have better insight in things that lay ahead of us or generally the things that are meant to be hidden from us.
Unfortunatelly it seems this is possible only for people with special "gift" (I am calling it a gift since our understanding of physics and world around us lacks any insight in these matters) . These people seem to use divination system rather as cover to disguise their gift then as the real tool. Most of the people are not blessed with such gifts therefore I would never advise them using divination systems as this SEEMS (to me) to be a deadend. Considering the amount of energy investment and ego exercising I tend to beleive that this might be yet another trap of the control system.

More or less this is also my answer to kenlee, and yes I agree emotional thinking is wrong and that is the reason why I left out the emotional conclusions about IChing from this post.
Once again I am emphasizing this is my personal opinion and it is very far from claiming this to be ultimate truth. Once again Atreides I apologize if my words seemed harsh to you but this is always a very tricky ground - confronting different systems of beleif.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The discussion about opinions which is currently going on within another thread has prompted me to go back and re read what I said here.

Therefore I would really appreciate if some of the seasoned memebers of QFS would share their thoughts, experiences, observations and conclusions ( huh it is difficult not to use the word opinion indeed ) maybe even working hypothesis about divination systems...
 

ark

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Deckard said:
I expressed my opinion about IChing divination system based on years long observation and experience.
Observations of what? What kind of experience? Without explaining this - your opinion is useless. Like any other opinion.
Deckard said:
Can you really step out of ego-centrism when expressing your opinion?!
Can YOU?
Deckard said:
What I noticed about I ching is following:
- The whole concept is heavily ritualistic, somehow I have come to the conclusion that any path which is burdened with rituals is actually a deadend for a seeker.
What is ritualistic about I Ching. Without explaining it - your opinion is useless. Like any other opinion.
Deckard said:
It appears (TO ME) that rituals serve only to trap our energy. This opinion is based on different observations and valuable insights I was fortunate to get in recent years, Cassiopean material being just one of them.
What observations? What "valuable insights? Without explaining it - your opinion is useless. Like any other opinion.
Deckard said:
Now what is really the purpose of any divination system ?!
Different people will use different divination systems for different purposes. You need to be specific. Otherwise your opinion is uselss.
Deckard said:
This is how I see it:
The bottom line of any divination system be it tarot or The Book of Change lays in trying to find a shortcut to deal better with our evryday life.
Shortcuts? Do you consider going for a walk to collect your thoughts or reading a poetry a shortcut too? Then, breathing is also a shortcut, right? You need to be specific and exact. Otherwise ....
Deckard said:
This is usually achieved through mastering some special skill or power unknown to most of the people which will enable us to have better insight in things that lay ahead of us or generally the things that are meant to be hidden from us.
The only special skills required for I Ching is the ability to read and to understand what is written.
Deckard said:
Unfortunately it seems this is possible only for people with special "gift" (I am calling it a gift since our understanding of physics and world around us lacks any insight in these matters) .
This is true, as not all people can read, and even less to understand and to make use of what they read.
Deckard said:
These people seem to use divination system rather as cover to disguise their gift then as the real tool.
Some people can use it this way. But this is not specific for I Ching. It can be true as well about the gift of being a good cook.
Deckard said:
Most of the people are not blessed with such gifts therefore I would never advise them using divination systems as this SEEMS (to me) to be a deadend.
What is so dead-ended about using I Ching for helping you in your thinking? Some people open window to get fresh air. Some pray, some smoke, some read Agatha Christie, some play chess, some play I Ching. What's wrong with this?
Deckard said:
Considering the amount of energy investment and ego exercising I tend to believe that this might be yet another trap of the control system.
Again, you are not specific. What "energy" are you talking about? You mean, you get exhausted when reading I Ching? This may tell something about you, but little about I Ching.
Deckard said:
Once again Atreides I apologize if my words seemed harsh to you but this is always a very tricky ground - confronting different systems of beleif.
You asked for it - you got it. I apologize if my words seemed harsh to you but this is always a very tricky ground - confronting different systems of belief. :)
 
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