I'd like for Laura to ask the Cs what happened to the Dutch girls Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon when they disappeared in the Panamian jungle?

luigi rovatti

The Force is Strong With This One
For further information, look here: Deaths of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon - Wikipedia

Here is just an excerpt from the webpage:
Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon were Dutch students who disappeared on 1 April 2014, while hiking the El Pianista trail in Panama. After an extensive search, portions of their bodies were found a few months later. Their cause of death could not be determined definitively, but Dutch authorities working with forensic and search-rescue investigators thought it likely the students had accidentally fallen from a cliff after becoming lost. The circumstances and aftermath of their disappearance have resulted in much speculation about the cause of death. Foul play could not be entirely ruled out and Panamanian officials came under fire for allegedly mishandling the disappearance and aftermath. Further investigation into the case in 2017 raised questions about the initial investigation, as well as a possible link to murders in the area. Although many theories have been presented as to what happened to the women, no official cause of death has been ruled.
 

Joan

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
What do you want, to make your thinking easy, and expect the C's to answer all your requests. Why not do your own research, find out for yourself, why you think his is a pressing question and needs to be answered. and is so important to you? Do you have some energy invested in this,? If so use your own energy.

The C's are not Mystic Meg, you will never know what you will discover, but at the same you may discover someth9ing more valuable, the realization of self discovery.
 

luigi rovatti

The Force is Strong With This One
I'm interested because it's not the usual disappearance. The Panamian government slowed the investigations, planted the packpack and photoshopped and highly compressed all the photos in the camera. Plus, one it's missing. It's clearly a conspiracy.
 

Mariama

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Have you checked out the Missing 411 thread under Books? I believe it was discussed there. If it wasn’t I would say that’s one possibility, high strangeness that is.
I researched this case and found David Paulides's video on the disappearance of these Dutch girls by accident, although he didn't say a lot about the case.

 

Hi_Henry

The Living Force
For the high compression, instead, look here:

Very interesting video in the sense that he gives you his years of experience with photo analysis in a short video.

Out of curiosity I read the comments. These seemed most interesting to me,

FirstName LastName

3 months ago
There was recently a full sized image released. The one where Kris is sticking out her tongue, 3072x4096 300dpi. I'm pretty sure the families have the all original photos. Assuming a conspiracy where people leak low resolution images to hide photoshopping is absolutely ridiculous.


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BackpackerCoach

BackpackerCoach
3 months ago

That's cool! Do you have a link?

REPLY



FirstName LastName

FirstName LastName

3 months ago
@BackpackerCoach From Jurgen Snoeren's (the author of the recent book) blog: An analysis of photo #505 You can click on the photo and it opens to full size, or you can download it. I think the authors of the book most likely have the original photos, probably via Pitti or someone else close to the case.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkkbAuNM7R4DsElzfABaxaQ

fanofkeira
4 months ago (edited)
@BackpackerCoach Well, I (finally) agree, 72 DPI is "too much"! That’s really absolutely weird! And your „off-width“-observation resp. the wrong ratio would explain, what I’ve always wondered about: Why does Lisanne have those extreme broad shoulders and that bizarre puffy face in the „selfie“ together with Kris on the Mirador-viewpoint. Lisanne was a very slim and slender girl, as other photos, taken one or just a few days before her hiking-trip, prove. This „stretching the width“ is therefore a hint to manipulation by whosoever. But the guys who have officially investigated those pictures should have seen this ratio-effect as well, don’t you think? I mean, they should be as keen experts as you are. If those official investigators didn’t point on this, inidicates, they definitely intended to veil something resp. someone... Conclusion: Someone hided a - at least - small hint which would lead to the solution of the case (not to mention the missing picture!). Something in the background of those most weird pictures. Maybe a piece of equipment, obviously not belonging to one of the girls. And be aware that not all pictures are bizarre. The picture, showing Kris in that little creek behind the viewpoint appears pretty normal, which indicates: They were there!! ("they" meaning: a photographer + Kris, not necessarily Lisanne). This is not "all" made up! Some pictures were manipulated, others remained untouched. And to hide it altogether they have been all reduced. This leads me to another possible scenario: Kris and Lisanne met someone, whom they trusted on the way to the Mirador viewpoint. After their photo-session at the viewpoint they decided to split up. This „other person“ (or these other persons) offered Kris to accompany her on the (dangerous) serpent trail, whereas Lisanne went back or just waited, as she didn’t feel very well that day. So Kris and this person went ahead on the serpent trail. The photo with Kris standing at the creek is definitely on the serpent trail. It was taken by the person accompanying her – whoever this is. If you watch the photo at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5dIZBIKm4 timestamp 3 : 41 – 3 : 45 closely, you see, that Kris feels rather uncomfortable. She presses her lips together and she appears extremely serious/nervous, maybe even scared. The euphoric mood from the viewpoint vanished. The missing photo 509 is chronologically 2 pictures after that. Maybe Kris became suspicious of her „companion“ and took a portrait of him (509). … After that the night photos… If this guy killed Kris he had to go back and catch up with Lisanne and made up a story what happened to Kris … and he had to get rid of Lisanne in the end as well (maybe she was "only" injured by him and escaped in the jungle but she was definitely exhausted. Exhaustion in a jungle is a death-sentence). He knew that there were several photos pointing on him in the camera. So he did some photoshopping plus he put up a scenario (with cuts in Kris back-head, with orange plastic bags as signs, with night photos), so everyone would hopefully buy the story of two girls „just getting lost in the jungle by accident“. If he intended this, it would be a clever idea to put the back-pack including the manipulated photos at a place where it could be easily found (by this indigen woman e.g.), since he wanted his staged story to be believed by every investigator and investigations would cease. The fact, the backpack showed absolutely no traces of wear and tear one would expect after a longer stay in the jungle also supports the idea that someone grabbed it the first day of their encounter. Well, this version would provide some possible logic answers in the broad context of the case - nevertheless it remains pure speculation of course.

I'd say the comments under this video are quite good.

If images are manipulated then someone with high tech knowhow went to a great deal of trouble to hide something. These definitely were not local town/village people.
 

Hi_Henry

The Living Force

Sean Cidy

Sean Cidy

2 days ago
Former schoolteacher, small businessman and most important man in Alto Romero. Crucially, he knows the area better that anyone, including the cellphone reception, and walks that trail a lot (having been filmed on it accidently by a documentary team). But I think Kris was a target of opportunity, he is not stupid enough to have his own clients disappear on a trip with him, but when he saw them on that part of the trail he knew he had his chance.

REPLY
Found the comment here,


By the way, the YT account owner of this video says he is being shadowbanded resulting in him not being so keen to dig more. It's in one of his comments in this video.
 

luigi rovatti

The Force is Strong With This One
For further information about the 509 missing photo, look here (the video is in German, but has English subtitles):

 

Hi_Henry

The Living Force
Luigi, I watched 3-4 of the videos. In one of the videos there was a big deal made out of the fact that different back packs were in the room as compared to the trail. The man's english at times is a bit confusing so I may be incorrect. I only watched these videos once.

Here are my observations on the backpacks.

On the hike the girls, the video maker suggests that the girls should have had 2 back packs (more water and food). He found this suspicious as a different backpack (BK) is seen in the room.

Then he zeroed in a low resolution photo of Kris with a backpack that he said did not look like the one she had in the other hike photos and airport (scottish tartan design). Well I think it is the same one. The width of the straps match. Resolution of photo destroys details, that all.

Well I looked at his album of photos. From my experience going on international trips involving hiking I always had 2 backpacks. One big one for all the gear which would be checked in with the airline. And a smaller one for little stuff and hikes which I would take into the plane. That's what I believe we can see here.

1) At the airport I suspect they already checked-in their big backpacks. This we can clearly see Kris's little backpack. In the case of Lissane not so well. However I think Lissane's smaller pack is there, as a bit of the leather strap can be seen (brown).
2) When they went on the hike it looks that only Kris had a backpack. In this photo we can see Lisanne carrying Kris's backpack,

1635678452187.png
The small leather backpack is nowhere to be seen in any of the hiking photos. I conclude that on "this hike" only Kris's backpack was used. This seems to be confirmed in the room photos where Lisanne's leather backpack can be seen. Kris's was somewhere in the mountains.
 

Jenn

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I'm interested because it's not the usual disappearance. The Panamian government slowed the investigations, planted the packpack and photoshopped and highly compressed all the photos in the camera. Plus, one it's missing. It's clearly a conspiracy.
Not to discount a conspiracy, but maybe it's not as it seems. Items turning up "neatly folded", a shoe with a foot in, random bones being found, photos being manipulated and the weather turning bad after they went missing all sound like a classic Missing 411 case. Have you watched Missing 411: The Hunted?

How do you know for sure that the Panamanian government planted the backpack and compressed the photos? I had a quick look and news reports say that the government had holes in their story. Well, no country wants the bad press of foreign travelers getting abducted/ killed, combine that with general incompetence and/or corruption, then no wonder their story seems fishy, but it doesn't necessarily mean they were behind it.
 
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