If there's too much people in society without empathy then society will collapse

[neonix]

Now I know why social media are so heavily promoted everywhere.

I, narcissist – vanity, social media, and the human condition
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/17/i-narcissist-vanity-social-media-and-the-human-condition

What Humans Can Learn From The Mice Utopia Experiment
http://www.returnofkings.com/36915/what-humans-can-learn-from-the-mice-utopia-experiment

Why do narcissists like twitter and instagram
http://www.2knowmyself.com/why_do_narcissists_like_twitter_and_instagram

Social Media & The Selfie Syndrome Making Us Narcissistic?
http://www.hardbodynews.com/2013/12/06/social-media-the-selfie-syndrome-making-us-narcissistic

 

[Laura]

Perhaps you could extract some pertinent extracts from these links you posted? I'd like to know the gist of it all because it looks interesting but I don't have much time just now.

 

[neonix]

Perhaps you could extract some pertinent extracts from these links you posted? I'd like to know the gist of it all because it looks interesting but I don't have much time just now.

There's so much interesting extracts in this articles that I post only few to only inspire you to read the rest.

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I, narcissist – vanity, social media, and the human condition
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In the US, diagnoses of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) have risen sharply over the past 10 years: the rate of increase is comparable to the rise in the rate of obesity.

Characteristics of NPD include a deep need for admiration, an inflated sense of one’s own importance, and a lack of empathy for others. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, other diagnostic criteria of narcissistic personality disorder include dreaming of unlimited success; craving attention from other people, but showing few warm feelings in return; and choosing friends based on their prestige and status rather than personal qualities.
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What Humans Can Learn From The Mice Utopia Experiment
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“Many [female mice] were unable to carry pregnancy to full term, or to survive delivery of their litters if they did. An even greater number, after successfully giving birth, fell short in their maternal functions. Amongst the males the behaviour disturbances ranged from sexual deviation to cannibalism and from frenetic over-activity to a pathological withdrawal from which individuals would emerge to eat, drink and move about only when other members of the community were asleep. The social organisation of the animals showed equal disruption…”

“…In the experiments in which the behavioural sink developed, infant mortality ran as high as 96 percent among the most disoriented groups in the population.” – John Calhoun

Newer generations born in the now dysfunctional mouse utopia became withdrawn, spending their days grooming obsessively and dedicating their time solely to eating , drinking and sleeping. This generation, for all the emphasis they placed on grooming, would not reproduce. Moreover, these mice were noted to be unintelligent compared to previous generations.

There are natural limitations on the degrees of social interaction we can manage on a daily basis, just like with the mice. In humans this is referred to as “Dunbar’s number“, and it has been observed to be true in social media sites.

With excess males fighting for dominance, older males gave up, leaving the females to fend for the family. These would then become increasingly aggressive and some even began attacking their own offspring.

“…phase C, the incidence of conception in females declined and the resorption in foetuses increased. Maternal behaviour was disrupted. Some mothers in desperate searches for quieter areas abandoned young that fell on the way…” – Tragedy in Mouse Utopia, Dr.J.R Vallentine

“…prematurely rejected, first by their fathers, then by their mothers, and then by established groups in the community, the young grew up without knowing how to behave, personally or socially as mice…” – Tragedy in Mouse Utopia, Dr.J.R Vallentine

Gender roles are vital in a social species, without that the break down of these lead to sub replacement fertility, depopulation, and finally, extinction.

There is another social ill in Japan that is comparable to Calhoun’s mice. These are the grass eaters (Soshoku kei Danshi ) of Japan. The term, “grass eater”, refers to males who have no interests in seeking relationships with the opposite sex.

They are not homosexuals, asexual’s, otaku nor Hikikomori.

In the Republic of Korea, 10% of men wear make up. In other developed nations, the “beautiful ones” are the vapid and shallow celebrity and beautify obsessed youth.
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Why do narcissists like twitter and instagram
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The narcissistic person thinks that he is better than everyone, that he should get a special treatment and that he is one of a kind.

Some narcissists think of all other people as inferior, not good enough and not up to the standards. Some other narcissists think they are really good but they don't think that others are worthless.
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Social Media & The Selfie Syndrome Making Us Narcissistic?
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Narcissists pursue gratification from vanity and the admiration of their own physical and intellectual attributes.

While narcissists have an inflated idea of their own importance, they can be quickly deflated by negative criticism

Refusal to take responsibility

Negative Effects of Social media:
According to research from California State University: Excessive use of social networking may be connected to psychiatric problems
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
Depression
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Hypochondriasis
Schizoaffective and Schizotypal Disorders
Body Dysmorphia
Voyeurism
Addiction

What is funny, many of this attribute are apply to me, but I am introvert, I am not grooming and I hate Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. I am rather misanthropist. This mean I am complete opposite to narcissist, but signs of society decline occur also in my family. This also indicate that Internet (not only social media) and TV have deep influence on population condition.

Now I understand how mechanism of globalization, industrialization, urbanization, welfare state, and overpopulation in the urban areas destroys family, destroys bonds between people, human spirit and empathy, psychopatization people and take over hope.

 

[Neil]

This mouse experiment has come up before, but I had never heard of it before I saw it on SOTT a few months ago. I would tend to agree with the hypothesis that the primacy of this social media behavior is symptomatic of a broader social degeneration analogous to that demonstrated in the mouse experiment. When genuine social interaction becomes unattainable due to a lack of or superficial roles in society, that natural social energy has to come out somehow and is channeled predominantly into caricatures of the real thing. The accessibility of social media in our time makes it a good conduit for this energy, which can then be directed by the PTB. This social engineering experiment conducted on 2D is probably also roughly analogous to the experiment 4D is conducting on us.

The main lesson of the mouse experiment would be that society starts to collapse when people can no longer find meaningful roles in the social hierarchy. In a 2D society, this seems to revolve around reproduction and creating a stable and "happy" family. 3D appears to be very much the same for most people, although there may be some more spiritual undertones to it that are not possible in 2D. In a socioeconomic system where one's value is determined primarily by the ability to sell one's labor into the market at whatever rate it deems appropriate, rigidly determined by supply and demand, people start to become redundant when the system reaches a certain threshold of centralization due to economies of scale. After this point, you have people behaving like the mice congregating at the feeding troughs, acting as a mass but not doing anything productive. Society has no purpose for them, they end up on some kind of welfare or in dead end jobs and it is difficult to get out. As the population grows and discontent grows, and there is no compassion from the leaders to guide things purposefully, the natural law of entropy becomes the prevailing force and runs its course until the final equilibrium state (extinction) is achieved. This would seem to be the default and mechanical general law of societies that do not organize themselves around a conscious aim to evolve toward the greater creative flow of knowledge and being.

In the 4D version of the experiment, the scientists are farming energy from the "mice" (us) as their sustenance. The more negative impressions that are generated the better they eat; yet the system has to maintain some degree of stability in order to be useful. So humanity rides these waves up and down, where the population is allowed to swell, the negative impressions reach a fever pitch, and then once the population has topped out, an "intervention" of some sort is done to create a lot of death and suffering to create one massive burst of energy. This can be made to coincide with earth changes to augment the effect. The trick to get maximum return on investment is to breed humans that generate the maximum amount of entropy without going extinct. The members surviving after the experiment is culled are instructed to "go forth and multiply" to keep the cycle going.

I found this selection of articles relevant and interesting food for thought.

 

[Ruth]

Actually, I'd like to propose a different thought. People without empathy are psychopaths (a sort of human parasite). If they get into positions of power, then society will collapse. It's going to collapse anyway because they control the world now. The organism (society) will fail, or at least many people will die because of this.

In order to control it they need to keep it weak, both mentally and physically, and/or distract it. How do they do this? They promote conformity, reward pathological behaviors (such as narcissism and competitive behavior) and poison society by putting people at a mental and physical disadvantage. They make laws to enforce that.

This tends to suggest to me that in order for society to collapse, people without empathy don't need to be very numerous, just in control, and they need to be able to control a lot of people.

 

[neonix]

This tends to suggest to me that in order for society to collapse, people without empathy don't need to be very numerous, just in control, and they need to be able to control a lot of people.

There can be collapse because bad government (the Soviet Union) and there can be collapse because rotten society (Roman Empire). Dimitry Orlove believe that Russians survived the collapse of the Soviet Union because they don't believe in propaganda and they was networking.
http://energyskeptic.com/2015/dmitry-orlov-how-russians-survived-collapse/

In communist times, we in Poland call it "connections". Which means, if you know appropriate person, you can get everything on the black market.

The problem is that in the wester society there's no black market, everything is monitored by electronics, and THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, people believe in government propaganda. Which means, it's very difficult to survive collapse when society is collapsing and there's no networking or "connections" because people don't trust one another. We are living in times of trust crisis, financial crisis, health crisis.

And much of food production is managed by corporations, not small farms. When economy collapse because of shortages of oil, corporations stops production of food. And small farms will not be able to complemented all this food production. Of course we live in open borders world and we can import food, but the factor that will kill most of the population is price inflation.

 

[Keit]

What is funny, many of this attribute are apply to me, but I am introvert, I am not grooming and I hate Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. I am rather misanthropist. This mean I am complete opposite to narcissist, but signs of society decline occur also in my family. This also indicate that Internet (not only social media) and TV have deep influence on population condition.

Well, I am certainly not implying anything, but just what to note that being an introvert or "misanthropist" doesn't make one a "complete opposite to narcissist". On the contrary. Narcissism has many faces. Here's an article on SOTT as an example. And here's another one. And here's a forum thread on the topic. There are others.

 

[duyunne]

The correlations are disturbing to me. Thank you neonix for taking this to my attention. I was never aware of Calhoun and his work until today.

The Beautiful Ones and Autism

My autistic son is protected by a large network of devoted individuals, including my self, who want nothing but for him to be unscathed by social traumas,(as such events can result in severe social regressions), we are akin to the behaviors the 'normal' mouse or rat populace exhibit in relation to protecting "The Beautiful Ones" portrayed in his experiments...

If you don't have time to read through the Calhoun experiment, check out this video:

https://youtu.be/0Z760XNy4VM

"Other young mice growing into adulthood, exhibited an even different type of behaviour. Dr Calhoun called these individuals, "The Beautiful Ones". Their time was devoted solely to grooming, eating, and sleeping. They never involved themselves with others, engaged in sex, nor would they fight. All appeared as a beautiful exhibit of the species, with keen alert eyes, and healthy well kept body. These mice however could not cope with unusual stimuli..."

 

[duyunne]

More delving into google here and I came across this:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/news/calhoun_papers_released.html

"NLM Announces the Public Release of the Papers of John B. Calhoun, Noted NIH Researcher in Social Crowding and Aggression"

"In 1963 he formed and was the first director of NIMH's Unit for Research on Behavioral Systems (URBS) in the Laboratory of Brain Evolution and Behavior (LBEB). He there observed the effects of crowding on a mouse community that was allowed to overpopulate, seeing a complete end to reproduction, with the entire population dying off. Calhoun coined the term "universal autism" to describe the group's behavior at that final point, as they became incapable of the social interaction essential for survival."

I don't think the traits of The Beautiful Ones are at all a result of narcism. I think their excessive self cleaning is a stim.

(re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimming )

Here is an interesting blog post on the subject, tying in modern day gamer/social media culture... _https://medium.com/miscellaneous-morsels/the-beautiful-ones-3e180865b57#.3pydxbncr

 

[duyunne]

Hi neonix

I've become quite obsessed and perplexed by Calhoun's work since your thread. After a lot of consideration, I now feel it necessary to give you my take on societal collapse and empathy, in an effort to get more analysis and awareness on the subject from yourself and other members of the group.

To get it out of the way, I want to start off by stating that I feel empathy is a possible cause of behavioural sink in an over populated colony.

Let me expound:

I recently quit marijuana. The reasons are numerous, but the tipping point was caused by an event at a public market. I entered the market about a half hour after smoking and typically, I'm usually unfazed by the effects. Though, during this specific visit (a few weeks ago), I couldn't stop feeling others. As if I was receiver of everyone in the vicinity, picking up on their energy, emotions, their auras so to speak.

To be honest, I couldn't handle it. I felt that these people (not all) were very ugly. I couldn't help but feel them as self obsessed and scornful. Why? I couldn't tell. It's one thing to see a sneer, but to feel it, was something I just couldn't handle that day. Now, I could have been projecting, but I've in recent months come to terms that we are all mirrors in some way. That I could just as easily be them, and they me. This understanding caused me to generally feel others as kindred in some way... But this day, all I could fee was ugly and torment, from merely being in their presence.

I in turn had a meltdown. This experience to me could only be understood from my stance on autism. In a sense, I couldn't handle the presumed 6th sense stimuli of being empathically intertwined with the market goers. After leaving the market, I was relieved! I felt somewhat better. It was as if being inside the structure of the market caused this feeling of claustrophobia and being trapped with them.


Since then, empathy in a way to me is a problem when being around people who have 'fallen'. Or who are narcissistic, self absorbed, petty tyrants... or psychopathic. This event caused me a severe withdrawal from being social. I wanted nothing for the following few days but to stay inside. Though I had responsibilities and went to work regardless, back into the sardine tin of the skytrain, back to my cubicle.

In a sense, I had my own personal 'beautiful one', or autistic moment. Except I didn't run to self groom or stim, I just fled in general.

It now dawns on me that I have experienced what Calhoun called universal autism from over stimulus due to over crowding. Of course, this is exasperated by marijuana use at the time. Since stopping, the fear of empathy being experienced in such a way is still present, but not as bad. It's also possible that I have undiagnosed high functioning autism (which can explain why my son has it), but I'm known to be a bit of a hypocondriac, so please factor that in here.

To conclude my point, I feel that empathy is an innate part of the human condition. We can't avoid it, but we can avoid each other's presence, hence the overwhelming acceptance of social networks and the subsequent wankery of selfie culture or narcism.

 

[duyunne]

I also wanted to show fellow members of the group a fascinating analysis of behavioural sink observed in one of my favourite Japanese animated series; Texhnolyze. This analysis, I find, is important as it observed some of the more disturbing facets of the populace well into or on the brink of Calhoun's die phase.

The series is about a fallen or psychopathic underground society, with key characters uncovering the cause of their condition. (The series in its entirety can be watched here: _http://animechan.tv/texhnolyze/1/ )

This video contains spoilers for the series, but I encourage you to watch either way as I feel it covers a wide range of modern day issues.

https://youtu.be/lK47Azd6OO8

 

[neonix]

This video contains spoilers for the series, but I encourage you to watch either way as I feel it covers a wide range of modern day issues.

https://youtu.be/lK47Azd6OO8

In this video there's term spiritual death as a synonym of behavioral sink. And when I realize how much I'm addicted to this industrial revolution world (but I'm aware about consequences of living this way) I feel that I'm exactly in this state that of spiritual death, and after this there be fast physical dead.

I realize that with my family that are in deep sleep there's no chance to survive. Then why to worry about the future? But in other hand I knew deep inside myself that if I meet the right people that are very similar like me, this will fire me up and I will be able to do amazing things. One spark can cause huge fire.


Stefan Verstappen in his video, shows that the solution from society collapse is to escape to small communities. But most people don't have money or are too lazy to escape from the city.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lIboR9Wtg8

 

[duyunne]

In this video there's term spiritual death as a synonym of behavioral sink. And when I realize how much I'm addicted to this industrial revolution world (but I'm aware about consequences of living this way) I feel that I'm exactly in this state that of spiritual death, and after this there be fast physical dead.

I realize that with my family that are in deep sleep there's no chance to survive. Then why to worry about the future? But in other hand I knew deep inside myself that if I meet the right people that are very similar like me, this will fire me up and I will be able to do amazing things. One spark can cause huge fire.


Stefan Verstappen in his video, shows that the solution from society collapse is to escape to small communities. But most people don't have money or are too lazy to escape from the city.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lIboR9Wtg8

I suppose I've also suffered this spiritual death myself as well, taking into myself the Hagakure some years ago and accepting with each morning that this day can be my last with a sense of glee. What I felt as a supreme spiritual advantage then was in fact a chilling nihilistic spiritual defeat in retrospect.

Nonetheless, our awareness of this condition being caused by overcrowding and hyper social stimuli certainly emphasizes the need of city folk to get away from the herd from time to time to decompress.

It's also note worthy that space on Earth is not as scarce as we can be led to believe. The hindrance is of course the monetary need you mention (to buy land and maintain yearly taxes) and to delve further, the ordinances or rules against urban small scale farming or the harnessing of rain water in some areas certainly doesn't help us to creatively overcome this condition.

Behavioral sink can be avoided when you analyze our situation. It's evident that this fall is by design, or forced on to us, probably inadvertently, but when you consider who funds these types of research programs... it's all becoming painstakingly clear. (re: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvmPjdDDDS4 "John B. Calhoun's Preliminary Rat Study Funded by Rockefeller Foundation" )