Racer_Unknown
The Force is Strong With This One
First of all, I must say that some of the recommended threads I’ve been reading show an amazing insight into the nature of the human mind’s programs, the ego and its defense mechanisms, buffers, etc. What’s more, it’s impressive to see how far the interaction will go among those involved in a discussion so that points made are understood by the group discussing them. I must say that I like how you guys “think.” You’re great thinkers. (And of course, “doers” as well.)
Now in reading various threads of The Work – going over some of the glossary (magnetic center, organic portals, soul/astral body, etc) and also going over bits of the C’s transcripts quoted in the posts relating to these particular subjects – a couple of 'conflicts' have surfaced. Please bear with me.
From what I’ve been reading, it seems to me – and please don’t view my question in any negative light, I don’t mean any disrespect – and please correct me if I’m wrong – that Gurdjieff’s teachings are only meant for – and therefore resonate with – those that might be Organic Portals – but, of course, those OP’s that have either a ‘soul seed/imprint’ or ‘soul potential.’ As something inside them drives them, it seems to me, to seek to ‘grow’ or develop an ‘astral body’ to escape being recycled back into another cycle of the Human Experience, perhaps for an entire master cycle.
But then, following what Gurdjieff says about most people not having a soul then, by that very statement (and logic), it should be assumed that “somehow” some folks do have a soul/are born with them.
On the thread: Gurdjieff and the question of the soul (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6399) Laura shares an article as part of the discussion (http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/mevlevi-vs-gurdjieffism.html ) from which I highlight:
“…the true goal of the spiritual seeker is to find a way to escape the "prison of matter" and the "sub-
lunar" world and reach salvation in the "Realm of Light" [the Pleroma].”
Now at the beginning of the passage quoted above, the line states that “the true goal of the spiritual seeker…” However, it should read, given my understanding of what it is that’s being discussed, I think, that the “the true goal of the Organic Portal with *soul potential* is to find a way….” Am I wrong for making this ‘assumption’?
How about those individuals that somehow ‘already have a soul,’ (not “might,” as then the point is missed) say, folks like Ingo Swann and Robert Monroe? What happens to them in relation to or when exposed to Gurdjieff and the Work? What benefit may they derive from it if they already have a soul is what I mean to ask. (These two individuals are used as examples to pose my question by the way simply because I assume that both Monroe & Swann have ‘souls’ based on their descriptions (on their books and interviews) of “detaching” from the physical body and “stepping outside of it” to watch it lying in bed for instance while they are in some sort of “shimmery” and “ethereal body,” which in turn they use to travel to other realities and do what they do. Swann in fact states (in the DVD series Remote Viewing Through Time & Space) that since the age of two or three he was able to *leave his body* when he went to sleep and fly out the window to go out and play with his friends.” (Obviously the 'playing' took place in another reality accessed during the dream state.). I have used these two men as examples also because they have both worked with people and made contributions (as in STO) to the humans: Swann by way of his books and developing the RV protocol, while Monroe developed the Hemi-Synch technology, The Monroe Institute, and also 3 books, *about* some of the things the soul (or at least, “astral body”) is capable of doing.)
In continuing the thread about Gurdjieff and the soul and from the quoted article cited by Laura earlier:
However, only a tiny minority called "pneumatics" had souls which could survive death and return to
the Realm of Light. Some, called "psychics" had the potential to develop such a soul. The great majority of
humanity were called "hylics," and had no hope of survival after death.”
(“Hylics” are most probably OP’s with no soul imprint/potential (these are called “minion incarnations” in Matrix 5 terminology). While “pneumatics” are “souled” beings – those with a Higher Self. I don’t think this is inaccurate? (As a little aside, when I’ve shared this idea with people – so called spiritual seekers – some of them react in anger saying that said concept – of souled beings and OP’s (without soul potential) – proposes that at least some humans are akin to “animals” and is no different than some organized religions in their claims that “they” are “god’s chosen” while other humans are akin to animals and lower life forms. Which in turn enables their killing in large numbers (as in wars). Interestingly, the same reaction is gotten when mentioning “psychopaths.” I mean, I do see people’s point of there being potential problems with distinguishing or rather labeling various “species of consciousness” but… reacting in anger to said concepts probably means that the truth – for some reason – hurts? Hmm.)
In further thinking about this, I did a small search about a concept I recall reading in one of Ra’s books (don’t have my book collection with me at the moment as they are in storage in another country) about what appeared to be – what they were describing – souled beings with a Higher Self (perhaps one of many “consciousness species” – this one a species that's multidimensional in nature) and found:
_http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?category=Wanderers&sc=1&ss=0
Questioner: You spoke of Wanderers. Who are Wanderers? Where do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Imagine, if you will, the sands of your shores. As countless as the grains of sand are the
sources of intelligent infinity. When a social memory complex has achieved its complete understanding of
its desire, it may conclude that its desire is service to others with the distortion towards reaching their
hand, figuratively, to any entities who call for aid. These entities whom you may call the Brothers and
Sisters of Sorrow move toward this calling of sorrow. These entities are from all reaches of the infinite
creation and are bound together by the desire to serve in this distortion.
12.27 Questioner: How many of them are incarnate on Earth now?
Ra: I am Ra. The number is approximate due to an heavy influx of those birthed at this time due to an
intensive need to lighten the planetary vibration and thus aid in harvest. The number approaches sixty-
five million.
12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? Or what density do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them,
are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind
and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery [the “Fool” archetype, I wonder?], depending upon
your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its
mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated
to avert the destruction.
Interestingly (and synchronistically perhaps?) while looking further into this, I also found a discussion of various meditation techniques focusing on the “inner sound” or “current stream” such as Eckankar (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1936). This immediately caught my attention, as Eckankar is one of the many ‘spiritual paths’ out there and one I have researched. So I decided to quickly take a look at what was doing on their web site as of late.
Sure, it “sounded” like many other New Age web sites/teachings. But with one *important distinction:* just as Gurdjieff “assumed” that most (or all?) people don’t have souls (therefore are OP’s), Harold Klemp, “spiritual leader” of Eckankar speaks to *initiates* as though they are souled/higher “multidimensional” beings. (Could this be an instance of "like attracts like," I wonder?) (And let me add here briefly that sure MOST "love & light-ers" (or "lightsiders" in Matrix 5 terms) and their organizations speak as if having a soul but Eckankar is the real deal.) Indeed. From my understanding now on various matters – having read the Seth, RA, Pleidian and Cassiopaean material, and also from what I know about Eckankar's program, this man, Harold Klemp, has got to be some sort of “higher density being” incarnated in 3D, as he has the ability to go into initiates’ bedrooms at night and help them consciously “leave or detach from the body” and shows them their (“already made”) ‘astral body.’ Initiates then literally “float up and through the ceiling” and into other realities where they interact with “spiritual teachers” in what are called “Temples of Wisdom.” Klemp although married and sporting a receding hairline, is actually very androgynous and even alien looking (as in “thin and lanky/long")....” Here’s a 2 min. video I found on the site in which Harold Klemp (or “Wah Z,” as he is known in the ‘out of body state’ to his students) addresses Eckankar initiates (again, supposedly souled beings):
_http://cache.eckankar.org/windows/HU-Most-Beautiful-Prayer_dreams.wmv
Now given what I've found and shared, my question is, and since some or many of you are experienced “Gurdjieffian" teachers, what do you think Gurdjieff would have done if he’d met a souled being in his classes? What I mean to ask is, would a souled being derive anything from his teachings even though they are to be used to help grow a soul/astral body?
Is that really THE goal of the Work and of “fusing the magnetic center”? Or is there “more?”
And could the phrase “in search for the miraculous" be a search or quest to find or rather "get" a soul... to then... what? perform "miracles" other than being able to leave the Human Experiece at the end of a master cycle or a shorter cycle?
Now in reading various threads of The Work – going over some of the glossary (magnetic center, organic portals, soul/astral body, etc) and also going over bits of the C’s transcripts quoted in the posts relating to these particular subjects – a couple of 'conflicts' have surfaced. Please bear with me.
From what I’ve been reading, it seems to me – and please don’t view my question in any negative light, I don’t mean any disrespect – and please correct me if I’m wrong – that Gurdjieff’s teachings are only meant for – and therefore resonate with – those that might be Organic Portals – but, of course, those OP’s that have either a ‘soul seed/imprint’ or ‘soul potential.’ As something inside them drives them, it seems to me, to seek to ‘grow’ or develop an ‘astral body’ to escape being recycled back into another cycle of the Human Experience, perhaps for an entire master cycle.
But then, following what Gurdjieff says about most people not having a soul then, by that very statement (and logic), it should be assumed that “somehow” some folks do have a soul/are born with them.
On the thread: Gurdjieff and the question of the soul (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6399) Laura shares an article as part of the discussion (http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/mevlevi-vs-gurdjieffism.html ) from which I highlight:
“…the true goal of the spiritual seeker is to find a way to escape the "prison of matter" and the "sub-
lunar" world and reach salvation in the "Realm of Light" [the Pleroma].”
Now at the beginning of the passage quoted above, the line states that “the true goal of the spiritual seeker…” However, it should read, given my understanding of what it is that’s being discussed, I think, that the “the true goal of the Organic Portal with *soul potential* is to find a way….” Am I wrong for making this ‘assumption’?
How about those individuals that somehow ‘already have a soul,’ (not “might,” as then the point is missed) say, folks like Ingo Swann and Robert Monroe? What happens to them in relation to or when exposed to Gurdjieff and the Work? What benefit may they derive from it if they already have a soul is what I mean to ask. (These two individuals are used as examples to pose my question by the way simply because I assume that both Monroe & Swann have ‘souls’ based on their descriptions (on their books and interviews) of “detaching” from the physical body and “stepping outside of it” to watch it lying in bed for instance while they are in some sort of “shimmery” and “ethereal body,” which in turn they use to travel to other realities and do what they do. Swann in fact states (in the DVD series Remote Viewing Through Time & Space) that since the age of two or three he was able to *leave his body* when he went to sleep and fly out the window to go out and play with his friends.” (Obviously the 'playing' took place in another reality accessed during the dream state.). I have used these two men as examples also because they have both worked with people and made contributions (as in STO) to the humans: Swann by way of his books and developing the RV protocol, while Monroe developed the Hemi-Synch technology, The Monroe Institute, and also 3 books, *about* some of the things the soul (or at least, “astral body”) is capable of doing.)
In continuing the thread about Gurdjieff and the soul and from the quoted article cited by Laura earlier:
However, only a tiny minority called "pneumatics" had souls which could survive death and return to
the Realm of Light. Some, called "psychics" had the potential to develop such a soul. The great majority of
humanity were called "hylics," and had no hope of survival after death.”
(“Hylics” are most probably OP’s with no soul imprint/potential (these are called “minion incarnations” in Matrix 5 terminology). While “pneumatics” are “souled” beings – those with a Higher Self. I don’t think this is inaccurate? (As a little aside, when I’ve shared this idea with people – so called spiritual seekers – some of them react in anger saying that said concept – of souled beings and OP’s (without soul potential) – proposes that at least some humans are akin to “animals” and is no different than some organized religions in their claims that “they” are “god’s chosen” while other humans are akin to animals and lower life forms. Which in turn enables their killing in large numbers (as in wars). Interestingly, the same reaction is gotten when mentioning “psychopaths.” I mean, I do see people’s point of there being potential problems with distinguishing or rather labeling various “species of consciousness” but… reacting in anger to said concepts probably means that the truth – for some reason – hurts? Hmm.)
In further thinking about this, I did a small search about a concept I recall reading in one of Ra’s books (don’t have my book collection with me at the moment as they are in storage in another country) about what appeared to be – what they were describing – souled beings with a Higher Self (perhaps one of many “consciousness species” – this one a species that's multidimensional in nature) and found:
_http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?category=Wanderers&sc=1&ss=0
Questioner: You spoke of Wanderers. Who are Wanderers? Where do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Imagine, if you will, the sands of your shores. As countless as the grains of sand are the
sources of intelligent infinity. When a social memory complex has achieved its complete understanding of
its desire, it may conclude that its desire is service to others with the distortion towards reaching their
hand, figuratively, to any entities who call for aid. These entities whom you may call the Brothers and
Sisters of Sorrow move toward this calling of sorrow. These entities are from all reaches of the infinite
creation and are bound together by the desire to serve in this distortion.
12.27 Questioner: How many of them are incarnate on Earth now?
Ra: I am Ra. The number is approximate due to an heavy influx of those birthed at this time due to an
intensive need to lighten the planetary vibration and thus aid in harvest. The number approaches sixty-
five million.
12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? Or what density do they come from?
Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them,
are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind
and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery [the “Fool” archetype, I wonder?], depending upon
your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its
mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated
to avert the destruction.
Interestingly (and synchronistically perhaps?) while looking further into this, I also found a discussion of various meditation techniques focusing on the “inner sound” or “current stream” such as Eckankar (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1936). This immediately caught my attention, as Eckankar is one of the many ‘spiritual paths’ out there and one I have researched. So I decided to quickly take a look at what was doing on their web site as of late.
Sure, it “sounded” like many other New Age web sites/teachings. But with one *important distinction:* just as Gurdjieff “assumed” that most (or all?) people don’t have souls (therefore are OP’s), Harold Klemp, “spiritual leader” of Eckankar speaks to *initiates* as though they are souled/higher “multidimensional” beings. (Could this be an instance of "like attracts like," I wonder?) (And let me add here briefly that sure MOST "love & light-ers" (or "lightsiders" in Matrix 5 terms) and their organizations speak as if having a soul but Eckankar is the real deal.) Indeed. From my understanding now on various matters – having read the Seth, RA, Pleidian and Cassiopaean material, and also from what I know about Eckankar's program, this man, Harold Klemp, has got to be some sort of “higher density being” incarnated in 3D, as he has the ability to go into initiates’ bedrooms at night and help them consciously “leave or detach from the body” and shows them their (“already made”) ‘astral body.’ Initiates then literally “float up and through the ceiling” and into other realities where they interact with “spiritual teachers” in what are called “Temples of Wisdom.” Klemp although married and sporting a receding hairline, is actually very androgynous and even alien looking (as in “thin and lanky/long")....” Here’s a 2 min. video I found on the site in which Harold Klemp (or “Wah Z,” as he is known in the ‘out of body state’ to his students) addresses Eckankar initiates (again, supposedly souled beings):
_http://cache.eckankar.org/windows/HU-Most-Beautiful-Prayer_dreams.wmv
Now given what I've found and shared, my question is, and since some or many of you are experienced “Gurdjieffian" teachers, what do you think Gurdjieff would have done if he’d met a souled being in his classes? What I mean to ask is, would a souled being derive anything from his teachings even though they are to be used to help grow a soul/astral body?
Is that really THE goal of the Work and of “fusing the magnetic center”? Or is there “more?”
And could the phrase “in search for the miraculous" be a search or quest to find or rather "get" a soul... to then... what? perform "miracles" other than being able to leave the Human Experiece at the end of a master cycle or a shorter cycle?