Important Info on Dreams

Zadius Sky

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At this point, I feel disposed to put together some (very basic!) information from all the threads that I've read in this board as a flexible resource of sorts for anyone's interest in dreams in particular from a perspective of this forum. This can be helpful, maybe not.

The fact of the matter is that there are numerous theories out there about dreams and gigantic piles of research data and their possible connection to reality. And, unlike "dream forums" where I've seen people take things at face value, here it takes discernment to tell "which is which" in regards to said sources. There is truly no single book that accurately elucidate the dream symbolism.

As it was stressed across the board (literally), the dreamer is the only one that is best suited to decipher his/her dreams. However, that does not mean one shouldn't share their dreams - even networking can help with the interpretations if one's so desire.

The following threads are important read in their own steads:

Dreaming in a Totalitarian Society

Dream Work (even though, this is in "The Work" board, still useful!)

Dream Interpretation - Inner Work by Robert Johnson

Dreams of Death

Here are the types of dreams that were discussed as well as some aspects that can affect dreams:

Firstly, there is a "Dark Man" dream that was discussed in several places; it's when, basically, a predator is present in one's environment and that predator is someone familiar and comes as unsuspected. It's when a higher self that is giving you a very strong warning.

Here's an excerpt on that from The Wave, Chapter 8:

http://cassiopaea.org/2010/05/08/the-wave-chapter-8-everywhere-you-look-there-is-the-face-of-god/

[...]

It was the standard "Dark Man Dream" as described by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, a Jungian psychologist, who uses ancient tales as maps to chart our unconscious knowing in her book Women Who Run With The Wolves.

"The natural predator of the psyche is not only found in fairy tales but also in dreams. There is a universal initiatory dream, one so common that it is remarkable if a person has reached age 25 without having had such a dream. The dream usually causes the person to jolt awake, striving and anxious. The dream usually involves being in a house with danger outside or darkness outside. The dreamer is frightened and frantically tries to obtain assistance. Suddenly, they realize the danger is virtually on top of them, or right with them, or cannot be overcome or avoided, or that they have lost. The dreamer awakens instantly, breathing hard, heart pounding.

"There is a strong physical aspect to having a dream of the predator. The dream is often accompanied by sweats, struggles, hoarse breathing, heart pounding, and sometimes crying and moans of fear. We could say the dream-maker has dispensed with subtle messages to the dreamer and now sends images which shake the neurological and autonomic nervous system of the dreamer, thereby communicating the urgency of the matter.

"The antagonists of the 'dark dream' are, in people's own words, 'terrorists, rapists, thugs, concentration camp Nazis, marauders, murderers, criminals, creeps, bad men, thieves.' There are several levels to the interpretation of the dream..."

"Often such a dream is a reliable indicator that a person's consciousness is just beginning to gain awareness of the innate psychic predator...."

"The dream is a harbinger; the dreamer has just discovered or is about to discover and begin liberating a forgotten and captive function of the psyche.

"The dark man dream tells a person what predicament they are facing. The dream tells about a cruel attitude toward the dreamer. Like Bluebeard's wife, the dreamer can consciously gain hold of the 'key' question about this matter and answer it honestly, and can then be set free. ...

"The dark man appears in dreams when an initiation - a psychic change from one level of knowing and behavior to another more energetic level of knowledge and action is imminent. The initiation creates an archway which one prepares to pass through to a new manner of knowing and being....

"Dreams are 'portals,' entrances, preparations, and practices for the next step in consciousness.

"Dark man dreams are wake-up calls. They say: Pay attention! Something has gone radically amiss in the outer world. ....The threat of the 'dark man dreams' serves as a warning to all of us -- if you don't pay attention, something will be stolen from you! The dreamer needs to be initiated so that whatever has been robbing her can be recognized, apprehended, and dealt with.

"In the Bluebeard story we see how a woman who falls under the spell of the predator rouses herself and escapes him, wiser for the experience. The story is about transformation through knowledge, insight, voice, decisive action. We must unlock the secrets and use our abilities to be able to stand what we see. And then, we must use our voice and our wits to do what needs to be done about what we see. When instincts are strong, we intuitively recognize the innate predator by scent, sight, and hearing... we anticipate its presence, hear it approaching, and take steps to turn it away. In the instinct-injured (i.e. nuts and bolts person) the predator is upon them before they register its presence. We have been taught to be nice, to behave, to be blind, and to be misused. [We have been hypnotized to give up our flesh and skins.]

"The young and the injured are uninitiated. Neither knows much about the dark predator and are, therefore, credulous. But, fortunately, when the predator is on the move, it leaves behind unmistakable tracks in dreams. These tracks eventually lead to its discovery, capture and containment.

"Wild Ways teaches people when not to act 'nice' about protecting their souls. The instinctive nature knows that being 'sweet' in these instances only makes the predator smile. When the soul is being threatened, it is not only acceptable to draw the line and mean it, it is required."
Secondly, there's HAARP activities:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3507.msg22491#msg22491

Laura said:
Whenever you find these bizarre electronic glitch things going on, you can almost guarantee that HAARP is activated and that a "program signal" is going out in the atmosphere and activating those who are programmed receivers.

I think that those who are NOT programmed receivers may experience this in a different way: as bad dreams or depression, or just feeling "off" and even physical ailments.
Then, there are the following two threads that discussed the Lucid Dreaming:

What to do when you realise you're lucid dreaming

Session 3 September 2008

Session 03 Sept 2008 said:
Q: (L) I'd like to know exactly what is lucid dreaming?

A: Partly conscious awareness while other systems are still switched off and subconscious bleeds through. Can be hypnogogic or hypnopompic or "other" states.

Q: (L) Well, is it a useful state for finding out what's going on in your subconscious, or changing your reality or anything like that?

A: It can be useful for entertainment mainly.

Q: (L) So there are no outstanding benefits to be obtained from practicing so-called lucid dreaming?

A: Not really.

Q: (L) Anything else about lucid dreaming? (DD) I had one yesterday! (Ark) Cheap movies! (laughter)
And, there's health issues that can affect the state of dreams:

JayMark said:
I would also suggest you to take a careful look at the Diet and Health section as it has been proved that what we eat can have a very negative impact on our chemical balance which can affect many aspects of ourrselves such as our emotional balance and sleep cycles. Keeping the carbs, gluten and msg away is surely a good thing but it is important you take the time to look at the data before making drastic changes to your diet as if done innapropriately, it could also have negative concequences.
Then, there's EE program:

From Eíriú-Eolas - Guide/FAQ thead: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,14410

13. QUESTION:I have very scary dreams when doing the program, why?

ANSWER: It is the emotional center that dreams. During this process, when you have unpleasant or scary dreams, it is all the negative emotions you have suppressed starting to come to the surface. Quite often you can process this stuff just by dreaming it away. But, the stirring of the emotional center can also lead to a healthy eruption and catharsis. It's hard to say - everyone is different and has different stuff buried inside.
The main key here is not to be attached to the dreams.

The C's once said, "Dreams are the best forum for disinformation that exists." In relation, Laura once said, "The best disinformation is a lie wrapped in truth." And again, the C's said, "Remember, there is much disinformation to weed through."

Meaning that we would need to use our discernment and reasoning skills, and not being "attached" to any one thing, especially to any dream elements (especially if they are so bizarre). If you do, then any entities would see you as a "plaything" and your emotions would be aroused or tantalized to increase your self-importance. Even that alone can be so distracting.

There is a thread that is relevant on disinformation (and can be applied to dreams): Overview/History of Channeling and Disinformation.

And, there is an article entitled "Dreams and Disinformation" by Laura:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/dreams_disinformation.htm

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/dreams_disinformation_2.htm

From the first link directly above, here is a portion that can be relevant:

There are over 500 references to the word "dream" and its permutations in the Cassiopaean text, as I have just discovered, and a brief overview shows that dreams, like everything else, can be of a dual nature. We can have those that are communications with the higher self, other selves, the universal mind and so on; and we can have dreams that are a direct result of an idea that is being implanted to lead us astray; and we can have dreams that are "memories" of "abductions," or the screen memories implanted to cover the real activities of abduction, AND we can have prophetic dreams not to mention dreams of past life experiences and maybe even future life experiences! So, it seems that, like everything else, we have to use our minds, our experiences and our instincts to choose what interpretation is appropriate. As the Cassiopaeans have said, nobody said this was gonna be easy and "no pain, no gain." We have to exercise our thinking, our judgment and our conscious will to make them all strong and the best way to do this is to ask questions! The C's made a remark in answer to a question that was not exactly about dreams, but the answer was so appropriate, I think that it applies in all situations:

A: These are the questions that prompt reflection, reflection prompts analysis, analysis prompts conclusions, which builds knowledge, which fosters protection!!!
Now, onto a basic interpretation:

The following quote that was posted by Prodigal Son several times across the board (the word in "quotes" below often been replaced with whatever word in a person's dream - i.e., "food"), which proved to be helpful towards a dream analysis. It's from a book entitled Living Your Dreams (Gayle Delaney)

Dream action is about the dynamics of your own life (hopes, fears, questions, conflicts, way out of difficulties, possibilities, etc.) The dream action may use images from experiences of the previous day or so before, as well as others. The dream symbols may be both literal and symbolic interpretations – be curious and naïve in your interpretation.

Here are some questions to ask yourself, they may help. Or not.

When you re-experience the experiences in the dream, do they remind you of anything in life?

The setting, what does it feel like there? Does it remind you of anything in current life, any situation in life?

What is ‘food’ (tell me on the basis that I don’t know ‘food’), what is ‘food’ like in your dream? What does ‘food’ mean to you? How does it 'work'? How do you feel about it? What is it used for? (ask on the basis that I know nothing about it)

Does ‘food’ in your dream remind you of anything, any part of you, or anyone in your life? How?

Ask similar questions about ‘celebrations’.

What are ‘family members’? What is 'family members' like in your dream? What kind of personalities? What does 'family members' mean to you? What are ‘family members’’ doing in your dream? How do you feel about 'family members'?

What is your working, etc., relationship with ‘family members’’ like?

Is there some part of you that is like ‘family members’’?

Ask similar questions about ‘your dad'.

Positive characters are about strengths and achievements.

Negative characters represent conflicts in life (personification of attitudes, beliefs, habits, etc)

Imagery is often idiosyncratic yet culturally moulded, for example Victorian houses suggest attitudes held are Victorian, and might be those of the dreamer.

Rooms suggest areas of concern.

The action, events in the dream, what do they remind you of in your waking life?

Think about the dream as you go through the day, and test insights and ideas gained. Understand obvious metaphors. Keep using language and images of dream whenever possible. Interpretations may spring to light. String descriptions together to bridge dream experience to any situation in life.

(Ref: adapted from Living Your Dreams by Gayle Delaney)
Finally, here's a great related post by Approaching Infinity with a subsequent post by venusian:

Approaching Infinity said:
There are some interesting analyses of dreams in some Fourth Way books. For example, Jean Vaysse summarizes the work as it was taught to him by Jeanne de Salzmann (using ISOTM as a reference). He has a section devoted to dreams. (Follow the link to see the section in question on google books). Also C. Daly King in his summary of the Work as taught by Orage (a separate line of transmission not including Ouspensky) in The Oragean Version (not published but available on scribd), and there's a similar description of dreams from a Work perspective. Basically, in the deepest (i.e. normal) sleep, there are no dreams. Most dreams are left over energy from one or several of the centers, and the dream content reflects this. Vaysse lists three normal kinds of dreams: associative (reactive/mechanical), compensatory (emotional), and symbolic (higher emotional). (Also telepathic, prophetic, etc.)

So basically, if you follow dream interpretation books, or Jungian stuff, there's an inherent assumption that all dreams are symbolic. But some are just mechanical. Some are compensatory dreams relating to emotional reactions during waking sleep. Before getting into symbolism, it's important to know if the dream is actually symbolic and not either of the former options. And even then, your higher self will speak in symbols specific for you, so as anart said, dream interpretation guides are not always the way to go.
venusian said:
Here is the excerpt from Jean Vaysse, Toward Awakening, pp 55-6, which AI referred to above.

In the intermediate states of sleep, dream “phenomena” are produced. Deep sleep brings about an inhibition of all the functions of the centers and at the same time interrupts the connections with the memory and imagination in each of them. But if they are not disconnected, or only partly disconnected, these functions may go on working in their respective centers. And thus the machine is not completely at rest, and some traces of its functioning may be available to us in the waking state. Study of these traces, that is, the study of dreams, can then tell us something both in regard to those disturbances which were strong enough to prevent the machine from resting (which of the connections are not properly broken) and also as to the nature of the disturbance in question (its causes and significance).

Theoretically, dreams can be divided into three principal categories: associative (or reactive) dreams, compensatory dreams and symbolic (or archetypal) dreams. But there are many other kinds, such as premonitory dreams, or telepathic dreams, the significance of which it would be interesting to examine from the point of view of the breaking or non-breaking of the connections between centers.

Inevitably, one tends to relate the three principal categories of dreams to the three levels of ordinary human life: associative dreams correspond to mechanical life, compensatory dreams correspond to a personal aspect colored by emotion, while symbolic dreams may offer obscure glimpses into the life of the real self, when the higher emotional center (working on another level) is able to make itself felt, owing to a sufficient disconnection between the lower centers, which ordinarily hide it.

In any case, dreams in sleep are still a subjective phenomenon. Even when induced by certain external impressions, they are formed in the inner world of a man and are made up of elements contained within him. Seeing them in the waking state, if he can recall them, a man may not recognize the images which were used as his own and may feel them as foreign to him. Yet this is nothing but an optical illusion even though he does not know it, they are in him and pertain to him, whatever form they may assume and however alien they may appear. They are only various aspects of himself arising in himself, ultimately indicative of things contained in him which he did not know of.
On a personal note, I usually used a top-down approach where I get a general impression from a dream, and if I ever get any aroused feeling or even confused about a particular dream, I'd break it down and asking myself questions (with all of the above in mind) on several levels to determine what the dreams were trying to tell me. I used this same approach when doing the "Dream Work" experiments (there are times when such approach doesn't work, I'd try something else).

The very one thing that I know for a fact is that the subconscious mind would use exaggerations in a dream to get our attention - any exaggerated activities or shocking imagery (i.e., fear-based). It would be best not to let it overwhelm you or cause you to feel anxious. It's a good idea to not get yourself be attached to these dreams, even if they are so bizarre that will likely to send you off wiseacring or spinning yourself about in a loop.

Anyway, there may be much, much more that I missed and I may be very wrong with everything that I've included here, so this is truly "for what it's worth."
 
A

Archaea

Guest
Firstly, there is a "Dark Man" dream that was discussed in several places; it's when, basically, a predator is present in one's environment and that predator is someone familiar and comes as unsuspected. It's when a higher self that is giving you a very strong warning.

[...]

"The natural predator of the psyche is not only found in fairy tales but also in dreams. There is a universal initiatory dream, one so common that it is remarkable if a person has reached age 25 without having had such a dream. The dream usually causes the person to jolt awake, striving and anxious. The dream usually involves being in a house with danger outside or darkness outside. The dreamer is frightened and frantically tries to obtain assistance. Suddenly, they realize the danger is virtually on top of them, or right with them, or cannot be overcome or avoided, or that they have lost. The dreamer awakens instantly, breathing hard, heart pounding.
There are a lot of threads on this forum where people have posted their personal dreams. I think that if there really is something objective happening in dreams, meaning that people have certain types of dreams almost universally, then it should be possible to find out for a fact whether this is what's occurring.

To do this I think the statistical methods used in psychology could be used, although I have some reservations about how this should be done. The idea is to look for similarities in thoughts, feeling and actions which people have reported, then we need to ask them some questions about what they think was happening, and what their state of knowledge/understanding of dreams was, whether true or false, when they had the dream.

I think using a method like this would show, given that there is enough data over as many different people as possible, whether there is something objective about certain types of dreams. And then from this, I think it might be possible to identify the objective source or sources from which these dreams arise.
 

SMM

The Living Force
Thank you for posting this Zadius Sky.
I keep a dream journal so it's been very useful perusing & pondering over the material here. Much 'food' for thought, no pun intended.

Archaea said:
Firstly, there is a "Dark Man" dream that was discussed in several places; it's when, basically, a predator is present in one's environment and that predator is someone familiar and comes as unsuspected. It's when a higher self that is giving you a very strong warning.

[...]

"The natural predator of the psyche is not only found in fairy tales but also in dreams. There is a universal initiatory dream, one so common that it is remarkable if a person has reached age 25 without having had such a dream. The dream usually causes the person to jolt awake, striving and anxious. The dream usually involves being in a house with danger outside or darkness outside. The dreamer is frightened and frantically tries to obtain assistance. Suddenly, they realize the danger is virtually on top of them, or right with them, or cannot be overcome or avoided, or that they have lost. The dreamer awakens instantly, breathing hard, heart pounding.
There are a lot of threads on this forum where people have posted their personal dreams. I think that if there really is something objective happening in dreams, meaning that people have certain types of dreams almost universally, then it should be possible to find out for a fact whether this is what's occurring.

To do this I think the statistical methods used in psychology could be used, although I have some reservations about how this should be done. The idea is to look for similarities in thoughts, feeling and actions which people have reported, then we need to ask them some questions about what they think was happening, and what their state of knowledge/understanding of dreams was, whether true or false, when they had the dream.

I think using a method like this would show, given that there is enough data over as many different people as possible, whether there is something objective about certain types of dreams. And then from this, I think it might be possible to identify the objective source or sources from which these dreams arise.
My thoughts were leaning towards a similar inclination. Observer bias may pose a problem, the different levels of awareness/being as there are many rudimentary connections that can be made, yet this depends on participants & can be taken into accord - however I haven't read anywhere near enough to say a great deal. With that in mind, I think it is possible to identify the objective source, even worthwhile as an idea.
 
A

Archaea

Guest
My thoughts were leaning towards a similar inclination. Observer bias may pose a problem, the different levels of awareness/being as there are many rudimentary connections that can be made, yet this depends on participants & can be taken into accord - however I haven't read anywhere near enough to say a great deal. With that in mind, I think it is possible to identify the objective source, even worthwhile as an idea.
I think observer bias could pose a problem in the asking questions phase, if we were ever to do this "meta-study." But if we were to just look at the descriptions of dreams people have given on this forum, then we might be able to mitigate that effect somewhat. Things I think we could look for are whether the person is more anxious or fearful, whether they are struggling to move (in their dreams or in RL) and whether they feel more aware than they usually do in normal dreams.

Another problem is that it might be difficult to separate dark man dreams from normal nightmares. So we might have to create different categories, say one category for dreams which have certain similarities or certain characteristics, and another category for dreams which lack these similarities and characteristics.

I figured I'd make a start on looking for threads which look like they might be dark man dreams, but I soon gave up, way to much reading. but I found this thread dark man/demon dream (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,23630.0.html) where it looks like the dark man dream subject Is discussed a bit, although I haven't read it.
 
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