In defence of nuclear power

[Pagan]

In defence of nuclear power.

I recently made some comments about nuclear power on the thread involving the recent Japanese earthquake, tsunami and nuclear crisis. I decided to start a new thread in order to present my views on nuclear power. Judging from the reaction to my comments, I seem to be very much in the minority of forum members in that I support nuclear power.

In general, I think the anti-nuclear lobby makes two large mistakes in their criticism of nuclear power. The first mistake they make is that they lump together nuclear power plant with atomic bombs and now, depleted uranium munitions. Anti-nuclear activists think that an argument against one is an argument against all. I don't believe this is the case. An argument against atomic bombs is just that, an argument against atomic bombs and not a valid argument against nuclear power plants. Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace, says that this is the mistake the anti-nuclear movement made in the 1970s.

_http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401209.html

_http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-moore-nuclear-energy-yes-please-436399.html

The second large mistake that I believe that anti-nuclear activists make is that they are overly concerned, to the point of paranoia, about radiation. Their mantra is “No amount of radiation is safe!” I don't buy this either. The Earth is and always has been radioactive.

_http://www.ans.org/pi/resources/dosechart/docs/dosechart.pdf

_http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/02/16/going-bananas-over-radiation/

_http://blog.xkcd.com/2011/03/19/radiation-chart/

_http://xkcd.com/radiation/

We evolved in a radioactive environment, so from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes no sense to believe that all radiation is dangerous. In fact, as we did evolve in a radioactive environment, there is a considerable body of evidence to suggest that we don't do well in a radiation-free environment. This is called radiation hormesis.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis

The topic of spent nuclear fuel is important, as there is much disagreement on for how long it is dangerous. Yes, it is very dangerous when it comes out of the reactor. However, it typically spends 10 years in a cooling pond. After 10 years, 90% of the radiation is gone. This is according to a course I took and I don't have a reference. After that 10 years in a cooling pond, it can either be reprocessed for more fuel or put into geological storage. 40 years after it comes out of a reactor the radiation is 1/1000 th of what it was. The quote below is from the Patrick Moore article in the Independent. See link above.

"Concern: nuclear waste will be dangerous for thousands of years. Fact: spent fuel, which contains 95 per cent of its original energy, is being safely stored at nuclear power plants around the world, and will be re-used by future generations for electricity. Within 40 years, spent fuel has less than 1000th the radioactivity it had when it was removed from the reactor."

This is also why Chernobyl is no longer a dangerous place. 25 years after the accident, all the really nasty radionuclides have gone. The quote below is from the IAEA. Included is the link.

"Since 1986, radiation levels in the environment have fallen by a factor of several hundred, due to natural processes and countermeasures. Most of the land contaminated with radionuclides has been made safe and returned to economic activity."
_http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/statements/2011/amsp2011n010.html

Much of the Chernobyl area is a nature reserve in all but name.

See the following or Google “Chernobyl nature reserve”

_http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/chernobyl-nuclear-wasteland-nature-reserve/story?id=7474050

_http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923342.stm

The Cassiopaean readings bring up some important points. One, in a response to a question about “peak oil”, the Cassiopeans said that petroleum reserves are not even close to being depleted. This means that either geologists have yet to discover massive petroleum reserves or that the consortium has managed to hide how big the reserves really are. So, if the truth about petroleum reserves were to come out, then nuclear power would not be necessary. The Cassiopeans have also mentioned “free energy” technology that has been suppressed by the consortium. Well, obviously if this technology were to come to light, then nuclear power, as well as just about every other energy source we currently use would become obsolete.

The Cassiopeans have commented on the recent Japanese nuclear crisis. However, I have seen nothing in the Cassiopean transcripts that says anything negative about properly functioning nuclear power plants.

The nuclear lobby does use the CO2 climate change scare to promote nuclear power. This is unfortunate. I won't use this argument as I too believe that climate change by man made CO2 emissions is over-hyped bunk. It is also true however, that nuclear power is not going to go away until the truth of petroleum reserves, climate change nonsense, and free energy technology comes to light. Or of course, if our civilization collapses due to comets, alien invasion, etc that the Cassiopeans have talked about.

At this point forum readers might be wondering what my connection is the nuclear industry. Here it is. I am an exploration geologist and in the past, I have worked in uranium exploration. That's it.

In an attempt to be fair, below I have listed various websites, books, and links on both sides of the nuclear issue. Forgive the Canadian bias, as I am Canadian.

Pro-nuclear websites, links and books.

Power to Save the World: The Truth About Nuclear Energy by G. Craves (Book)
Website _http://cravenspowertosavetheworld.com/

Atomic Awakening: A New Look at the History and Future of Nuclear Power [Paperback]
James Mahaffey (Author)

_www.iaea.org

_http://www.nuclearfaq.ca/
Pagan comment: This site has an excellent links page to both pro and anti-nuclear websites.

_http://www.nwmo.ca/

_http://www.coalitionfornuclearenergy.com/

_http://www.ecolo.org/

_http://www.magma.ca/~jalrober/

_http://www.itheo.org/

_http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/

_http://www.world-nuclear.org/

_http://atomicinsights.com/

_http://nuclearpoweryesplease.org/

_http://energyfromthorium.com/

_http://flibe-energy.com/

_http://analysis.nuclearenergyinsider.com/

_http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-moore-nuclear-energy-yes-please-436399.html

Anti-nuclear links from forum members

_www.nirs.org

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033907/

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17439847

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19941973

_http://cricket.biol.sc.edu/chernobyl/Chernobyl_Research_Initiative/Publications.html

_http://cricket.biol.sc.edu/chernobyl/Chernobyl_Research_Initiative/Press_Coverage.html

_http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070418-chernobyl-birds.html

_http://www.klimaatkeuze.nl/wise/monitor/655/5797

_http://thechildrenofchernobyl.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html

_http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/03/24-7

_http://www.sott.net/articles/show/227101-There-is-no-safe-exposure-to-radiation

_http://salonesoterica.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/japan-earthquake-tsunami-haarp-and-stuxnet/
Pagan's comment: This one belongs in the “baked noodles”section. The presenter makes some obvious errors especially about geology despite calling herself a geo-scientist. Not to mention some really weird comments about Queen Elizabeth II. Also, if, as she claims, the Japanese nuclear crisis is due to an attack by HAARP and the stuxnex virus, then that isn't the fault of the technology. What technology is immune to sabotage?

_http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2011/05/the-aftermath-of-nuclear-war.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

Anti-Nuclear book (from a forum member)

Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment
By Alexey V. Yablokov, Vassily B. Nesterenko, Alexey V. Nesterenko

Other anti-nuclear sites

_http://www.energy.probeinternational.org/

_http://ep.probeinternational.org/

_http://www.ccnr.org/

_http://www.cnp.ca/

_http://www.helencaldicott.com/

_http://www.nuwinfo.se/harding200710frenwood.html
Pagan's note: This is review of a book by Jim Harding. He is Canada's version of Helen Caldicott. I have read this book cover to cover.

 

[Mark]

The second large mistake that I believe that anti-nuclear activists make is that they are overly concerned, to the point of paranoia, about radiation.

It's fairly clear that what happened in Japan and Chernobyl shows why nuclear power is extremely dangerous.

Assuming for a moment that nuke plants weren't built in totally idiotic locations by what amount to nut case mentalities, and that psychopaths had no way of getting involved with plant operation at any stage or level, there's still the glaring problem that, currently, mankind is mostly clueless about the nature of anything off this planet. Looking at what we face right now with potentially severe problems that could arise from meteors and comets, it seems far too risky in my perspective to have nuke plants anywhere.

 

[EGVG]

The second large mistake that I believe that anti-nuclear activists make is that they are overly concerned, to the point of paranoia, about radiation.

It's fairly clear that what happened in Japan and Chernobyl shows why nuclear power is extremely dangerous.

Assuming for a moment that nuke plants weren't built in totally idiotic locations by what amount to nut case mentalities, and that psychopaths had no way of getting involved with plant operation at any stage or level, there's still the glaring problem that, currently, mankind is mostly clueless about the nature of anything off this planet. Looking at what we face right now with potentially severe problems that could arise from meteors and comets, it seems far too risky in my perspective to have nuke plants anywhere.

I agree M, just imagine a meteor hits, some of us survived, but we have all this nuclear plants that we have to take care of, you can't just turn them off. Nuclear plants are here to mess with us, not to help us.

EDU

 

[truth seeker]

Just a note that Pagan's been banned. Since so many of his/her viewpoints are contrary to this forum (defense of nuclear power and debtors prisons to name a couple), it would be better if Pagan were to find another that he/she would be better suited for.

 

[mkrnhr]

Unfortunately for pro-nuclear extremists, there is science and common sense. And unfortunately for propagandists, some of the members of this forum are mathematicians, physicists, biologists, physicians, and others. So bad science (one of the favorite PTB tools) and overt lies do not fool anyone by here, it is just noise.

 

[Palinurus]

So Pagans post should have been placed in the cointelpro section of the forum if I understand this banning correctly?

 

[EGVG]

Unfortunately for pro-nuclear extremists, there is science and common sense. And unfortunately for propagandists, some of the members of this forum are mathematicians, physicists, biologists, physicians, and others. So bad science (one of the favorite PTB tools) and overt lies do not fool anyone by here, it is just noise.

That's right! Pagan sure had an agenda.

 

[cassandra]

But was a trifle heavy-handed with the old propaganda; too much, too soon. Not so smart, especially after the Japan disaster.

 

[EGVG]

But was a trifle heavy-handed with the old propaganda; too much, too soon. Not so smart, especially after the Japan disaster.

Not only not smart, but also desensitized with the crisis the world is living because of the nuclear issue. I mean, Pagan GET A CLUE!

 

[anart]

Just a note that Pagan's been banned. Since so many of his/her viewpoints are contrary to this forum (defense of nuclear power and debtors prisons to name a couple), it would be better if Pagan were to find another that he/she would be better suited for.

For clarification, it's not really the contrary views that are the issue, since contrary views often bring new and useful information if they are factual and are integrated into a wider understanding. It is the posting of obviously faulty information with no evidenced desire of any kind to examine his own thinking or understanding. To put it simply, he's been spamming the forum with faulty information to promote what appears to be a right wing authoritarian agenda, and after many attempts to get him to broaden his horizons, enough is really enough.

 

[Guardian]

For clarification, it's not really the contrary views that are the issue, since contrary views often bring new and useful information if they are factual and are integrated into a wider understanding. It is the posting of obviously faulty information with no evidenced desire of any kind to examine his own thinking or understanding. To put it simply, he's been spamming the forum with faulty information to promote what appears to be a right wing authoritarian agenda, and after many attempts to get him to broaden his horizons, enough is really enough.

Thanks Anart

"Pagan" has felt like a paid Corporate Shill to me since s/he began posting. In 30 years of activity in the Pagan community, I have not met, face to face, ONE SINGLE PAGAN who approves of the use of nuclear reactors ..not ONE! Yet they seem to keep popping up on-line extolling the virtues of power plants that can totally destroy our environment. ...and that's NOT any form of "Pagan" practice that I'm aware of.

 

[Rosemary]

Has it occurred to any policy makers or energy advisors/ministers that nuclear energy is just another non-renewable energy source that takes a huge amount of increasingly scarce natural resources just to pruduce? I'm just saying...