In our eyes

[Guest]

Right....I feel a little better following a wee cig. It's been an intensive time reading and reflecting of late, and I have some observations and questions to raise, which hopefully do not repeat other posts here.

I've met a few freemasons, and I found them a little contradictory in their behaviour and demeanour. They asked me if I believe in God, which I couldn't adequately answer at the time. I figured God-ness to be synonymous with consciousness. But they really look at the eyes; for them they are truly a window to the soul. One fellow saw my more wretched aspects in me by scrutinising my eyes (this was 2004). And the OP fandango. They must know about the OP situation, but they say nothing, even in a relatively private conversation. Why is this???

This guy took me to task for my iffy lifestyle choices (I have changed irrevocably in two years) and challenged my lack of subtlety when talking about the "topic of topics" in the company of mutual friends. But the eye thing bugs me...

One last thing; I had a job interview in 2004; went well, interviewer was the manager:- personable, witty, sharply intelligent, and obsessed with the eyes. I thought the interview went well....any way I went to shake hands with him at the end of the session and he went to shake my upper forearm!!? Awkwardness ensued, and I left with thoughts racing. I heared nothing from him afterwards regarding what would have been a reasonable job.

Now this has bugged me for years; I felt bitter about them for a while, now I am merely intrigued. I have no axe to grind but the eye thing is crucial for me.

I've seen a UFO.

I've glimpsed an alien (like thermoptic camoflage in my field of vision).

Now, my eyes are nothing special, I wear glasses. Does anyone have any ideas about this?

They'll probably hex and vex me tonight. No poetry for supper. God manifests in curious ways indeed...

 

[Arreis13]

Hello! I have never known any masons yet I can relate with the eye issue. I do believe the eyes say alot about a person and I have always feared looking into the eyes of many people. They say a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes yet I am an honest person and i somehow feel that looking into the eyes of another exchanges energy good or bad?? Im not sure why I feel this way??

 

[EmeraldHope]

Hello! I have never known any masons yet I can relate with the eye issue. I do believe the eyes say alot about a person and I have always feared looking into the eyes of many people. They say a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes yet I am an honest person and i somehow feel that looking into the eyes of another exchanges energy good or bad?? Im not sure why I feel this way??

I have to tend to disagree with you here that a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes. It has been my experiece the more dishonest a person is, especially if they display psychopathy traits- the more deeply and intensely they WILL look into your eyes. In one way they use it as a form of bonding, and I also think that they learn very early that most people believe this to be true so they go out of their way to maintain eye contact. Of course, they also have a predatory stare into your eyes they use at times to intimidate and frighten. I guess I am just trying to say do not take this old saying to heart- pay close attention to reality left and right. This may hold water for someone who is essentially honest and is being untruthful, but not so much with the personality disordered individuals.

 

[clerck de bonk]

Hello! I have never known any masons yet I can relate with the eye issue. I do believe the eyes say alot about a person and I have always feared looking into the eyes of many people. They say a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes yet I am an honest person and i somehow feel that looking into the eyes of another exchanges energy good or bad?? Im not sure why I feel this way??

I have to tend to disagree with you here that a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes. It has been my experiece the more dishonest a person is, especially if they display y traits- the more deeply and intensely they WILL look into your eyes. In one way they use it as a form of bonding, and I also think that they learn very early that most people believe this to be true so they go out of their way to maintain eye contact. Of course, they also have a predatory stare into your eyes they use at times to intimidate and frighten. I guess I am just trying to say do not take this old saying to heart- pay close attention to reality left and right. This may hold water for someone who is essentially honest and is being untruthful, but not so much with the personality disordered individuals.

I'm with You EH, but IMO a sociopath/psychopath are the ones that will most definitely look straight into Your eyes(for reasons mentioned in Your post) and a "normal" person acting dishonestly would not. A "normal person would feel shame(albeit little in some cases, but still). Whereas a psycho don't feel shame, at all.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Hello! I have never known any masons yet I can relate with the eye issue. I do believe the eyes say alot about a person and I have always feared looking into the eyes of many people. They say a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes yet I am an honest person and i somehow feel that looking into the eyes of another exchanges energy good or bad?? Im not sure why I feel this way??

I have to tend to disagree with you here that a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes. It has been my experiece the more dishonest a person is, especially if they display y traits- the more deeply and intensely they WILL look into your eyes. In one way they use it as a form of bonding, and I also think that they learn very early that most people believe this to be true so they go out of their way to maintain eye contact. Of course, they also have a predatory stare into your eyes they use at times to intimidate and frighten. I guess I am just trying to say do not take this old saying to heart- pay close attention to reality left and right. This may hold water for someone who is essentially honest and is being untruthful, but not so much with the personality disordered individuals.

I'm with You EH, but IMO a sociopath/psychopath are the ones that will most definitely look straight into Your eyes(for reasons mentioned in Your post) and a "normal" person acting dishonestly would not. A "normal person would feel shame(albeit little in some cases, but still). Whereas a psycho don't feel shame, at all.

Clerk- I think we are saying the same thing- I bolded my part that is the same as what you are saying for a "normal person'. So sorry I was not clear enough for that to come across. I'm still working on the writing skills. :)

 

[cubbex]

Some persons have a disgusting stare, they kind of repel you with their necessity of manipulate you. Haha its just like they think someone will fall because of the stare, intimidating or not.

 

[HiThere]

Just for the record; the original poster will most probably not read this as his post is from 2006.

 

[Earl/Brownie]

My father, passed on in 1996, was a 3rd degree Mason. If he knew about op's he never spoke of it or even hinted of it that I can recall. I have his encyclopedia's published in 1925 that I have been studying for the past few months or longer and so far have found no referral in them of the race.

My Mother's father was also a Mason.

"Eye Contact" was always impressed upon me by both parents as I grew-up and is natural for me to "look" at people during conversation and such.

Yet we all missed something somewhere, because I married a sociopath when I was 18 years old.

 

[clerck de bonk]

Hello! I have never known any masons yet I can relate with the eye issue. I do believe the eyes say alot about a person and I have always feared looking into the eyes of many people. They say a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes yet I am an honest person and i somehow feel that looking into the eyes of another exchanges energy good or bad?? Im not sure why I feel this way??

I have to tend to disagree with you here that a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes. It has been my experiece the more dishonest a person is, especially if they display y traits- the more deeply and intensely they WILL look into your eyes. In one way they use it as a form of bonding, and I also think that they learn very early that most people believe this to be true so they go out of their way to maintain eye contact. Of course, they also have a predatory stare into your eyes they use at times to intimidate and frighten. I guess I am just trying to say do not take this old saying to heart- pay close attention to reality left and right. This may hold water for someone who is essentially honest and is being untruthful, but not so much with the personality disordered individuals.

I'm with You EH, but IMO a sociopath/psychopath are the ones that will most definitely look straight into Your eyes(for reasons mentioned in Your post) and a "normal" person acting dishonestly would not. A "normal person would feel shame(albeit little in some cases, but still). Whereas a psycho don't feel shame, at all.

Clerk- I think we are saying the same thing- I bolded my part that is the same as what you are saying for a "normal person'. So sorry I was not clear enough for that to come across. I'm still working on the writing skills. :)

My bad, sorry EH

 

[Arreis13]

I honestly believe that not all people who do not look into another's eyes are liars. I also tend to studder when im nervous or excited and many would say that is a sign of dishonesty? I just feel as if my point was disregarded and weather it not be important to those who answered so certain, I hope someone can respond with a more open mind on the subject. Thanks

 

[obyvatel]

I honestly believe that not all people who do not look into another's eyes are liars. I also tend to studder when im nervous or excited and many would say that is a sign of dishonesty?

Hi Arreis13,
Not looking into others' eyes or stuttering when nervous or excited are not necessarily signs of dishonesty. In many cases it could be related to a lack of confidence or social anxiety. It may be possible to work on these issues though if you feel the need to change.

 

[Beau]

I honestly believe that not all people who do not look into another's eyes are liars.

I agree. But, when someone is looking at someone else while speaking and then they look away or avert their gaze while answering a question, that is more often than not an indication that they are lying. I think if you never look straight at someone while speaking or have a hard time doing so, it speaks to other issues but doesn't necessarily mean you are lying.

I also tend to studder when im nervous or excited and many would say that is a sign of dishonesty? I just feel as if my point was disregarded and weather it not be important to those who answered so certain, I hope someone can respond with a more open mind on the subject. Thanks

It is a sad sign of society when someone who stutters is given the short end of the stick and not taken seriously. There may be some people who do stutter when they lie but generally I don't think it's an indicator. It can be a physical reaction to lying in some cases. Usually stuttering has to do with other issues like social anxiety and self esteem and not a sign of dishonesty. Unfortunately people who stutter can be disregarded for other reasons, sometimes people think they are slow-witted. That could be why you notice that happening and not because they think you are lying. That seems like an assumption on your part.

 

[Arreis13]

I appreciate your reply thank you. I do agree with these problems being connected with low self esteem and social anxiety. I come from a small town were people are few and far between so this plays a major part with me personally with feeling nervous ect in most social settings. As a kid I would get excited when I would talk about things that interest me so I would talk fast and studder just a little as if I couldn't speak fast enough. I just feel that it is important for us to try and not be so black and white with even the smallest issues. It could help someone to feel better about who they are.

 

[Buddy]

Hello! I have never known any masons yet I can relate with the eye issue. I do believe the eyes say alot about a person and I have always feared looking into the eyes of many people. They say a dishonest person will not look into anothers eyes yet I am an honest person and i somehow feel that looking into the eyes of another exchanges energy good or bad?? Im not sure why I feel this way??

.

I honestly believe that not all people who do not look into another's eyes are liars. I also tend to studder when im nervous or excited and many would say that is a sign of dishonesty? I just feel as if my point was disregarded and weather it not be important to those who answered so certain, I hope someone can respond with a more open mind on the subject. Thanks

I've neither seen nor experienced any evidence that there is any absolute rule covering all cases of eye contact or avoidance between people. There are people who don't like looking into others eyes because of the ease in intuiting a lie being told them. There were times in the past when I didn't want to look directly into someone's eyes because I felt I had to tell a lie to smooth social tensions or something. There were other reasons related to emotional trauma as well.

Also, I see how it's possible to feel like energy, good or bad, is exchanged between people through the eyes, especially in light of the saying about how eyes can be considered the windows of the soul (it can feel like you're looking right into someone or vice versa).

It can seem even scarier from a quantum perspective when you read Jeffery Satinover (The Quantum Brain)'s description of how the eyes are like miniature computation devices acting as direct extensions of the brain into the environment.

With respect to stuttering, I think tending to stutter when nervous or excited is not necessarily a sign of dishonesty in a given case, unless a person only stutters when being dishonest.

Recent research indicates that roughly 3 million Americans stutter (AKA stammer), and it occurs most often between 2 to 5 years of age while learning language skills. Less often, is stuttering due to emotional trauma or problems with thought or reasoning (psychogenic stuttering).

Developmental stuttering is the more common, where scientists and clinicians believe it occurs when children’s speech and language abilities are unable to meet the child’s verbal demands. In short, the person, or his/her speech center can be over-motivated or over-stimulated.

In the Spring of 2010, Dr. Kang and an international group of researchers led by Dennis Drayna, Ph.D., managed to show a certain gene mutation present in some stutterers. From an article:

...the GNPTAB gene was known to work with two other genes—GNPTG and NAGPA—he sequenced them and found mutations that were present in stutterers and their families, but not in the control groups. In fact, no one had ever found a human with any disease associated with mutations in NAGPA, until now. Its only known effect is stuttering.

_http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/pages/stutter.aspx
_http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/inside/spr10/pages/pg1.aspx

 

[truth seeker]

I also agree that both stuttering and averting of one's gaze are connected with self esteem and possible childhood trauma. My father has done both for as long as I've known him and have often wondered what his life may have looked like when he was young.

Even with these challenges, he managed to make a good life for himself and is well liked by others. While I don't doubt that he may have encountered a few jerks along the way, for the most part, I think people were accepting of him. I'm not sure if that had to do with 'luck' or with his general state of mind and how he approached his life though I lean heavily towards the latter. My two cents.