Internal Racism

luke wilson

The Living Force
Hi Guys,

This is not a spur of the moment type thing but rather something I have been thinking about for some time now.

I did a search on the forum for a term that I came to learn about and didn't find even a single hit; Internal Racism.

Has anyone ever heard about it? What are your thoughts? Is it real? What could cause it?

Lastly, in your views, what sort of mental energy should lets say a person classified as a minority expend on dealing with the above issue? Should it be ignored, left to its own devices or should someone make an attempt to come to some sort of understanding of what it is and the dynamics behind it?

What I have learnt about it has come in the way of documentaries and/or listening to other people talk about it.

The below link I think explains it better than I could


In a society where racial prejudice thrives in politics, communities, institutions and popular culture, it’s difficult for racial minorities to avoid absorbing the racist messages that constantly bombard them.

The below Ted talk I think explains how such stuff can grow to be internalized:


I think the gist is, "being consistently exposed to multiple micro-aggressions".

Also is this like a new thing or was it something that say, slaves or those living in the 40's, 50's etc had to deal with? From my understanding internal racism is connected with the changing nature of racism i.e. from overt to more covert so it is more a problem now than then.

For example,

A small black child as he/she is growing up today might notice that black people tend to live in ghettos whilst white people live in well-to-do suburbs. So how will he/she explain this to himself/herself? Back in the day, the answer would be obvious, now it isn't so obvious. If this same child continues to notice the world around him/her, they'll no doubt hear stereotypes, watch TV and see certain things e.g. why are rappers always so angry and aggressive calling each other the 'n' word all the time.. why do lets say, black people not do well at school as a general rule? Why is there more of them in prisons? why is it the bad part of town tends to have quite a lot of them? etc etc

All the above and many more can eventually crystallize to form a solid impression of the world in an unsuspecting child. Not of the invisible subtle forces that operate the world, but rather, of the value of certain people simply based on how they appear. This then will form his/her own personal demons especially if he/she finds themself on the wrong side of this fence i.e. I look like them, so what does this make me? What can I do about it?

So what are your thoughts? Has anyone heard of the term before?


The Living Force
I experience internalized transphobia, and am familiar with internalized homophobia, but not so much with with the racial version of the phenomenon.

There is so much that has been deliberately orchestrated by the PTB in order to foment racial hatred that it can be very complex to understand. You have to remember that there are "benefits" and profit that accrue to psychopathic predators for creating and exacerbating these kinds of problems. It parallels the way 4th density STS feeds on us -- the more suffering the better, up to a point. And it messes with people's minds. That is kind of the point of doing it.

It looks to me, then, like ponerogenesis, if I am using the right word. Race, nationality, gender, language - there are lots of ways to make it work and to pit people against each other. Is there something unique about racial issues and how it makes people feel about themselves? I don't know, but I don't think so. Looking at the larger picture it looks like more business as usual on this planet.

As always, it helps to start by asking "who benefits," and don't forget to "follow the money."


FOTCM Member
I was thinking about this topic just last night. I have had problems with racism for longer than I would like to admit. Not being of a specific race myself (I'm mixed race), I have internalized "micro-agressions" that were disproportionate considering that I'm a human being like any one else regardless of how I look like. So I have come to see myself as only part of the human race, a view that is a work in progress.

It seems to me it is business as usual in this planet as Megan said. Internalized racism seems just another variety of a negative introject from society.

From Trapped in the Mirror:

[...] The negative introject is partly the voice of your attacking and restrictive narcissistic parent whose thinking took up residence in your mind. It is not rightly a part of your self but a hostile foreigner that watches you with a critical eye. Little escapes its quest for control. It criticizes you with such comments as "You're a failure" and "Why try?" Your feelings of depression strengthen its force. It makes you discard appreciation and distrust affection. Its punitive demands and paralyzing arguments stop you from trying to change. [...]

[...] My negative introject said, "You'll never finish the writing and will be humiliated, marked as a failure, a tragedy, a landmark of shame." I felt pummeled by this. It seemed to make sense. My hopeless mood was evidence of my worthlessness. With a note of triumph, my introject said, "That is you." Later, while brushing my teeth, despondency drew me to memories of childhood. I felt asthmatic shortness of breath and wheezing, something I had not suffered since
that era at times when I was emotionally abandoned, stressed, and pressured. Being unable to breathe was the physical aspect of my emotional horror. It was amazing to have an attack on the day I heard about selling my book about children of narcissists.

The negative introject squashed my feelings of success and raised fears of humiliation. Achieving and then losing again can be more painful than not achieving at all, which is why many children of narcissists do so little. Barely functioning defends us from loss. We were taught to feel responsible for fate rather than to do what we can and let results fall as they may. [...]

[...] After a period of emotional hassle, I laughingly resisted the introject's attack on my commitment and returned to work. When we measure the achievement of a person, we need to know her past, the place from where she has come.

I heard my introject's call to failure. It said that I would not be paid for my work, which part of me believed while the rest of me pushed on. I heard my healthy side saying, "The gods can have their way after you have finished." I am happy to have written this. It represents the triumph of my self. [...]

[...] In repeatedly silencing my introject I learned more about the struggle. Eradication takes deliberate thought and effort. You need to identify the introject as foreign to your self. As long as we think of it as ours, we are at a disadvantage. If we see it as a non-self, an identification that drives us to unacceptable roles, feelings, and behaviors, we can work on it. [...]

[...] Do negative thoughts lurk at the back of your mind like uninvited guests? Such ideas can be so habitual that you do not think them strange. In freeing yourself, it helps to be funny. "You here again?" humor cuts the power of oppressive ideas. Laughing, you can see that you don't believe in everything you think. It is good to tell your self-demolishing messages to those who have similar problems or who can enjoy a good joke.

Sometimes you listen too long before acting. the introjects gets hold of your mood and outwits your common sense and humor. If you can't politely back off, continue on your way despite inner criticism. Reason and will can keep you going till you get support. [...]

[...] The introject is ruthless. At varying times, you will have to battle its self-suppressive force. The introject will activate to knock you back and down. Your assigned position is what the narcissistic parent wants. [...]

[...] If you want to change your thinking to feel less pain but run from the pain introduced by the negative introject, your pain will increase. It is like a helpless child's response to an attacking parent. "I must get away from this. It is too horrible to bear." Pain grows in proportion to the magnitude of your fear.

Instead note, "I am giving myself hurtful messages but I know my tendency to think the worst and shall first assess the difficulty." Objectivity reduces your introject's power. If you find a problem in your behavior, it is not equivalent to the worth of your self. A narcissist confuses his behavior and self, which renders him defensively incapable of seeing his difficulties.

Your negative introject can haunt you with tragic fantasies about yourself. To heal, say, "Tell me all and let me see it in a clear light." Fears grow in the shadows. Phobic people are haunted by fear. The more they avoid what they fear, the worse the phobia. Phobia spreads to new objects that are connected with the old. Contamination spreads through flight. Avoidance is a poor response. [...]

[...] We give ourselves a lower rating than others do. Like all people, we make mistakes. These do not merit condemnations to wear upon our breasts but are to learn from. Humor and courage make good partners. Seeing your difficulties and your tendency to exaggerate blame, humor makes it easier to change. [...]

luke wilson

The Living Force
Megan said:
I experience internalized transphobia, and am familiar with internalized homophobia, but not so much with with the racial version of the phenomenon.

I had no idea about the other two so thanks for letting me know.

The PTB have been thorough in creating this prison. We are separated based on race, religion, social class, education, sexual orientation etc etc.

Psyche said:
Internalized racism seems just another variety of a negative introject from society.

It is! Not only is it a form of negative introject where society is playing the role of the narcissistic parent, it can also and usually is externalized in that you start to act out this role in a myriad of ways depending on the individual.

For example: a mixed race person might look down upon or deny one of his/her identities as she associates that with inferiority and failure etc.

Another famous example I think is to be found in asian communities where the double eyelid surgery is prevalent.


Another one is to do with dark skinned people bleaching there skin i.e. adding corrosive chemicals onto there body and essentially disfiguring it so as to look lighter.


Obviously in all the above, from asia to africa to wherever, people have these internal demons that drive them to admonish there own physical vehicles in favor of some idealized standard.

It is kind of heartbreaking and the scope can not be underestimated. The above examples also show how women are hit especially hard due to so-called 'beauty' standards, not that males get a free pass.

On top of that, it can also affect how one acts personality wise, how one see's there cultural heritage etc in that essentially, anyone affected is left in limbo, at odds with everything about them, their body, their personality, their nature etc.

I also think it can go the other way round where you are pigeon-holed into a specific role based on societal expectations e.g. and this is going from racial stereotypes, an asian person might be expected to be good academically, or a black person might be expected to be good at athletics etc. So for example a black person at a top university might encounter people who immediately assume he/she is there on a sports scholarship or might have people expect him/her to be bad at academics which adds extra pressure or an asian person might find people expecting them to be pretty much geniuses at maths etc.

I think we can get a glimpse of the power of expectations from this article posted at SOTT:

Some more examples:


This digest discusses the various negative and positive Asian American stereotypes. It also explores how school practices and individual educators--consciously or unconsciously--may reinforce them. Doing so has important negative social, political, and economic ramifications for Asian Americans. Indeed, while Asian Americans are often characterized as the "model minority" (Lee, 1997, p. 442), many have serious psychological and emotional concerns which are not being addressed.


The various stereotypes assigned to Asian American students cause them emotional distress and create conflicts with their peers, both those of different races and those in their own racial group. Even more important, stereotyping limits students' opportunities and access to resources (Fisher, Wallace, & Fenton, 2000; S. Lee, 1996). [...]

S. Lee (1996) reported that high- and low-achieving Asian-identified students experienced anxiety to uphold the expectations of the model minority stereotypes. The students who were unable to perform well academically felt depressed and were embarrassed to seek help.


The model minority stereotypes attribute educational and economic success to all Asian Americans, with the danger that they ignore the between- and within-group differences of assimilation/acculturation, social, political, economic, and education backgrounds (Educational Testing Service, 1997; E. Lee, 1997; Siu, 1996; Yin, 2000). By focusing on exceptional "success stories" and generalizing to all Asian Americans, the model minority myth does not take into consideration the large number of Asian American students and their families who suffer from poverty and illiteracy (Educational Testing Service, 1997; Siu, 1996; Yin, 2000). For example, while only 5.6 percent of Japanese Americans have only an elementary education or less, 61 percent of the Hmong Americans fall into this category (Siu, 1996). Further, although the poverty rates for Japanese and Filipino Americans are 3.4 percent and 5.2 percent respectively, 24 percent of Vietnamese, 42 percent of Cambodians, and 62 percent of Hmong Americans live below the poverty line (Yin, 2000). [...]


The model minority stereotype that Asian American students are "whiz kids" (Brand, 1987) and immune from behavioral or psychological distresses prevents them from acknowledging academic and emotional problems and seeking help. S. Lee (1996) reports on a Cambodian student named Ming who was failing his classes but refused to seek help for his academic difficulties, believing that admitting his academic failure would cause his family to lose face (be ashamed). He was trying to live within the boundaries of the model minority stereotype, and as a result was perpetuating his academic problems, leaving him feeling isolated and depressed.


In addition, Asian American students have reported experiencing racial and ethnic discrimination by their peers (Fisher et al., 2000; Kohatsu et al., 2000; Phinney & Chavira, 1995; Siu, 1996). Siu's (1996) study of literate Asian American students at risk demonstrates the social and psychological struggles resulting from the model minority stereotypes that foster discrimination and anti-Asian sentiments from their peers. The review found that a large proportion (63 percent) of Vietnamese, Hmong, and Korean elementary and secondary students reported that American students were "mean" to them. Being insulted or laughed at by classmates were cited as reasons for not liking school and lacking friends. In addition, commonly mentioned concerns of Vietnamese, Chinese, and Cambodian refugee school age children were physical altercations with peers in school and in social interactions.

S. Lee (1996) discusses how Korean students distanced themselves from Southeast Asian students because they did not want to be associated and be perceived as "welfare sponges." It was, further, found by Siu that the proportion of suspensions for fighting was much higher for Filipino and Southeast Asian students than for all other ethnic groups, including whites, Latinos, and African Americans. These fights were attributed to cultural barriers and prejudice against Asians, especially Southeast Asians. Such racial tensions and a hostile school environment may divert students' focus from their studies to less productive or even destructive activities, and spur some Asian American youths to join gangs for their own protection and for a sense of belonging (Siu, 1996).

Here is another example of someone who collided head on with their assigned internalized racism and how they dealt with it...


The above are only Asian related. There are multitude others for blacks as well and any other group that is on the wrong side of the fence. I am not 100% sure how this issue affects white people because as far as I can tell, the main theme coming from that corner of the world is 'It doesn't exist'. My personal view is that it affects everyone as we all internalize what society tells us about who or what we are or should be. This message can be got across in many different ways, through unspoken expectations, through experience, school, parents, friends, the media etc etc.


The Living Force
I actually have issues with being white, although they don't run very deep and I am not interested in doing anything about it beyond trying to understand the damage done by my ancestors, and why they thought it was important to behave that way. (Always, it seems to trace back to the reigning psychopaths of the time.)

I was kind of excited to discover that I have one black ancestor -- that's one ancestor out of a thousand that I have tentatively identified so far, but at least there is a tiny bit of "culture" on that side of the family. There may have been others that were suppressed from the family history but if so, there is no sign of it in my genetic analysis. Oh well.

It's interesting that this occurred in the North, in the years following the arrival of the Mayflower (though my ancestor evidently arrived on a different ship, a bit later -- it's debatable), and that while the mother had apparently been a slave, the children became an integral part of the community, like everybody else.

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
This is one of the most insidious aspects of racism. If you're a member of the dominant race, say "white," you feel superior to the subordinate race, so hence you feel good about yourself on some level. If, on the other hand, you are a member of a subordinate race, say "black," from childhood you internalize the dominant view and it's like having weights placed on your ankles in a footrace. The same is true of women in patriarchal societies. Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in Blink, There is a test that tests for unconscious bias called the IAT (Implicit Association Test). The interesting thing is that in the United States, both whites and blacks show an association of white faces with positive attributes and black faces for negative attributes. From a blog

The test results reveal that the 80% of Americans more quickly pair words like “love,” “peace,” and “joy” with white faces and words like “terrible,” “evil,” and “failure” with black faces. The level of difference is a matter of microseconds, yet is still statistically significant.

What the IAT most significantly reveals is that unconscious attitudes and the behaviors which those attitudes give rise to may be completely incompatible with a person’s conscious values. Even those who consider themselves very enlightened in matters of race still overwhelmingly tend to have an implicit preference for whites. Gladwell himself, who is half-black, was found to have a “moderate automatic preference for whites.” As he notes in the chapter, he considers himself an enlightened and progressive individual on the matter of race relations, with a strong conviction that blacks and whites are equal. Gladwell’s point, however, is that just knowing of cognitively assenting to the idea that the two races are equal does not tell the whole story. He writes,

Our attitudes towards race and gender operate on two levels. First of all, we have our conscious level. These are what we choose to believe. . . . which we use to direct our behavior deliberately. . . . But the IAT measures something else, our attitude toward racism on an unconscious level. the immediate, automatic associations that tumble out before we have had time to think. We do not deliberately choose our unconscious attitudes . . . [and] we may not even be aware of them. The giant computer that is our subconscious silently crunches all the data it has from all the experiences we’ve had the people we’ve met, the lessons we’ve learned, the books we’ve read, the movies we’ve seen . . .and it forms an opinion. That is what is coming out in the IAT. The disturbing thing about the IAT is that it shows us that our unconscious attitudes may be utterly incompatible with our stated values.

People can take the IAT test here
Raised a Catholic, I was conditioned to have homophobia.

As a young teen, I participated with a large group of "friends" that began a systematic campaign of harassing a gay male in our school.

I am devastated to say that he eventually committed suicide after a few year of this torment.

People, this type of guilt can become unbearable for those of us who have a soul, unlike OPs.

I still wonder what amazing things this young man could have contributed to the world.

I have since become an outspoken person on such bullying tactics but the damage for me has already been done.

luke wilson

The Living Force
Interesting study Mr Premise. It kind of connects to what is in the psychology board about system 1 and system 2.

The way certain qualities are associated with one face and others with a different face kind of reminds me of what I have read about how marketers work.

You know, where they associate certain products with certain qualities, e.g. a certain product might be associated with style, creativity and innovation (such as apple products like the ipad), others with class, history and heritage (such as certain brands of cars) etc. It seems on the issue of race, a lot of this kind of marketing was done, where certain qualities were attributed to one race and others to another so that now, they are staunchly associated with said qualities.

It also seems that society functions in such a way that certain elements of these qualities are self-evident e.g. it can not be denied that for example black students as a group perform worse academically than other racial groups, or white people are more successful, appear joyful due to certain privileges e.g. material wealth etc.

This in turn move back to solidify what the marketers were saying i.e. one is inferior the other superior in a kind of self-evident way.

Also another interesting way to look at the issue of racism is using the analogy of ones love for ones own family:

It is healthy to love your family, siblings, parents, kids, partner etc but that doesn't necessarily mean you grow some form of hatred for whoever doesn't fall into that category. However, on the subject of race it more often does... That is kind of weird, the sort of mechanism in play there and how it was put into place.

So now in order to fight this, you have people say, it flat out doesn't exist, i.e. races don't exist, we only have to see everyone as human, but if that is the case, then how can you explain that people of certain groups are clamped together e.g. at the bottom of society and others at the top. If you move to address this i.e. by acknowledging race, then others say, you are perpetuating racism.

Now you add the issue of internal racism and it just makes the knot even tighter where not only are we locked into position from outside, but also from within our own psyches.

I mean the kind of architecture that has gone into building this boggles the mind.


The Living Force
Having landed myself in the 'top tier' of societal genetic type (white, male, athletic build, etc), I haven't encountered any typecast micro aggressions towards me on that account, and even though I always thought these kinds of cookie cut judgements by a genetic scale were stupid, I sometimes observe the internal voice of judgement by those same views, when say someone walks in front of me or behaves badly in traffic, then there may come a prompt denigration to whatever disposition the person may have towards the societal 'ideal'.

I tend to think of it as a system 1 early adaption of societal norms; the governing views and its stereotypes. To me it makes sense that anyone, no matter type, would unwittingly incorporate the mediated hate-views early on, and these denigrative images come to be mixed up with whatever emotional patterns or imprints one has going on underneath. So yeah, negative introject indeed.


The Living Force
astrozombie said:
...As a young teen, I participated with a large group of "friends" that began a systematic campaign of harassing a gay male in our school...

That can be the last straw, but it often begins with abusive parents, serving their "lord" (though not in the way they think). That, I imagine, is somewhat distinct from the situation with black children and the messages that they receive about themselves, but I don't have the personal experience with race issues that I do with gender issues, and I can't say for sure.


FOTCM Member
luke wilson said:
For example: a mixed race person might look down upon or deny one of his/her identities as she associates that with inferiority and failure etc.

I did some research a few months back and was taken aback with some of the arguments, so I putted aside for another time. So I searched my bookmarks to have a look at it again.

Gurdjieff is quoted as saying "Mixed blood gives less chance of individuality". No context is provided, but there it is.

I grew up in a generation and environment, where being mix raced was not cool. Plus, being Asian-caucasian, Asian phenotype predominates. So I was given all sorts of bad names related to my Asian aspect because people were simply not used to it. I was raised by my Asian mother with conflicting and persistent cultural issue identification. To this day, people ask me where I come from and I just give the country. I don't feel truly identified with Asians nor Caucasians, nor my country of origin for that matter. I'm literally just a citizen of the world. But the programming was such that I longed to belong to one or the other and not be a mixed "freak". And of course, being mixed race and multicultural gave me a chance to see several mixed race couples and in general, it went pretty bad for all of them except a few cases, mostly due to cultural differences and identifications associated to the "not being able to work out emotional issues" of the average couple.

Here is more information on this particular introject:

From the "anti" mixed race people:

Health and Behavior Risks of Adolescents with Mixed-Race Identity


[...]Conclusions. Adolescents who self-identify as more than 1 race are at higher health and behavior risks. The findings are compatible with interpreting the elevated risk of mixed race as associated with stress.

A considerable literature attests to the emotional, health, and behavior risk problems of mixed-race adolescents. The most common explanation for the high-risk status is the struggle with identity formation, leading to lack of self-esteem, social isolation, and problems of family dynamics in mixed-race households.1–6 This literature is not entirely consistent. In some studies no differences are found between mixed-race and single-race children.7–9 This article explores the risk status of self-identified mixed-race compared with single-race adolescents using a large, nationally representative sample.

Biracial Asian Americans and mental health


A new study of Chinese-Caucasian, Filipino-Caucasian, Japanese-Caucasian and Vietnamese-Caucasian individuals concludes that biracial Asian Americans are twice as likely as monoracial Asian Americans to be diagnosed with a psychological disorder.

The study by researchers at the Asian American Center on Disparities Research at the University of California, Davis, will be reported in a 10 a.m. (EDT) poster session, "Clinical, Counseling, and Consulting," on Sunday, Aug. 17, at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Association in Boston.

"Up to 2.4 percent of the U.S. population self-identifies as mixed race, and most of these individuals describe themselves as biracial," said Nolan Zane, a professor of psychology and Asian American studies at UC Davis. "We cannot underestimate the importance of understanding the social, psychological and experiential differences that may increase the likelihood of psychological disorders among this fast-growing segment of the population."

Zane and his co-investigator, UC Davis psychology graduate student Lauren Berger, found that 34 percent of biracial individuals in a national survey had been diagnosed with a psychological disorder, such as anxiety, depression or substance abuse, versus 17 percent of monoracial individuals. The higher rate held up even after the researchers controlled for differences between the groups in age, gender and life stress, among other factors.

A more "eugenicist" argument:


The biggest problem that comes from race mixing is genetic incompatibility. I will give a few examples of known genetic incompatibilities, problems suggested to be due to incompatibilities, and theoretical [but so large it's not possible to quantify] examples to explain observations.

"Genes do not work in isolation" Over many thousand years the races developed genes that code for polypeptides that code proteins that interact with other proteins and compounds in the body. These interactions are often between fully compatible compounds, and efficiency is lost if these compounds are not fully compatible. Your parents both have thousand of interacting compounds that over thousands of years have been selected because they were present in that population. Race mixing breaks up these collections of alleles that work together to make compatible traits. Through the long periods of isolation that our ancestors went through, those with the best matched alleles were most reproductively successful and thus these alleles that don't work well with that race's genome were eliminated, but in other races that may not have been so. In my opinion there is not much more selfish and destructive when choosing a mate to knowingly pick someone with a high possibility of genetic incompatibility, possibly subjecting your future children to a life of genetic abnormalities and mixmatched genes.
- LTA4H, or "leukotriene A4 hydrolase" is found on chromosome 17. An allele of this gene increases the risk of heart attack in Blacks by more than 250%, but only 16% in Whites and Asians. The gene boosts inflammation and uses it to fight infections generally absent in Blacks. 30 percent of Whites have this allele, yet they have evolved genes to counteract it. The 6% of Black Americans [Black Americans are roughly 20% or more Caucasian] who aquired it from interracial breeding haven't. A variant of the gene encoding leukotriene A4 hydr... [Nat Genet. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

- "Adolescents who identify themselves as mixed race are at higher health and behavior risk than those of 1 race." source This is most likely due to the reasons stated above. One example is that mixed race children rarely can find bone marrow donors because of their genetic abberancy.

- "complexes of genes co-evolve in a population, acting harmoniously with one another to produce a high level of fitness. Different isolated populations may evolve different complexes of genes that interact well within a particular population, but poorly when the genes are mixed through cross-population matings"
NOAA Tech Memo NMFS-NWFSC-30: Genetic Effects of Straying

- "Blacks [Black Americans, who are hybrids] tend to die sooner and younger from almost every cause but osteoporosis [they have denser bones]. There are reports that even after all known causes are accounted for there is still 'unexplained' poor health among blacks. This difference is often ascribed to the stresses of 'racism,' but this is not a very convincing explanation. Recently, Surgeon General David Satcher appeared on television to point out that in America, black babies are 2-1/2 times more likely than whites to die in the first year of life. It is not clear how infants suffer from the stresses of 'racism.'" American Renaissance October 1999
The same observance from a more neutral site: "Florida health statistics show that in 2005, the mortality rate for black infants was 4.4 times higher than that of white infants ... Researchers found that African women who come to the United States and have babies experience the same low rate of infant deaths as white American mothers." The reason why Black Africans would have lower infant death rates in this case is because they aren't 20% White like American Blacks. _

- Another example is called Haldane's Rule, "when in the offspring of two different animal races one sex is absent, rare, or sterile, that sex is the heterogametic [XY] sex." in mammals males are the XY. An X from one race race and a Y from another are less likely to be compatible than an X from each, so the percentage of male mixed race resulting from mixed couples should be lower than the percent in each parent population. Hence the explanation of higher Black spontaneous abortion rates. JSTOR -- "Indiscriminate interbreeding between distinct forms, whether 'species' or markedly different races, is not generally beneficial. The defect may show in a change in the sex-ratio of the offspring, probably caused by the early abortion of members of one sex, generally the male in the case of mammals."
Amazon Amazon

- The batting average success for mixed race marriages is about 1/2 of that compared to same race couples, 0.127 compared to 0.213. There is some evidence that the more similar the two people are, the happier their marriage. Iceland, a more homozygous and isolated island, shows that 3rd cousin marriages [sibling marriages are too high of a level of inbreeding] are more fertile and have more children. Perhaps this is the ideal genetic distance for optimal health in this smaller population [in larger genetic populations like White Americans it wouldn't be so close]. One study found that "our results indicate that nonblack individuals with black partners have significantly more depressive symptoms and less relationship satisfaction than their counterparts with nonblack partners".


"E Pluribus Unum: Diversity and Community in the Twenty-first Century The 2006 Johan Skytte Prize Lecture"

"Ethnic diversity is increasing in most advanced countries, driven mostly by sharp increases in immigration. In the long run immigration and diversity are likely to have important cultural, economic, fiscal, and developmental benefits. In the short run, however, immigration and ethnic diversity tend to reduce social solidarity and social capital. New evidence from the US suggests that in ethnically diverse neighbourhoods residents of all races tend to 'hunker down'. Trust (even of one's own race) is lower, altruism and community cooperation rarer, friends fewer. In the long run, however, successful immigrant societies have overcome such fragmentation by creating new, cross-cutting forms of social solidarity and more encompassing identities. Illustrations of becoming comfortable with diversity are drawn from the US military, religious institutions, and earlier waves of American immigration."

It's important to note that this was a very well funded study and it took the author five years to make sure he could prevent it from being used by "racists and anti-immigration activists" (Prof. Disputes Paper)

"Professor Putnam told the Financial Times he had delayed publishing his research until he could develop proposals to compensate for the negative effects of diversity, saying it 'would have been irresponsible to publish without that.'"

"His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone - from their next-door neighbour to the mayor. ... 'In the presence of diversity, we hunker down,' he said. 'We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it's not just that we don't trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don't trust people who do look like us.'" Study paints bleak picture of ethnic diversity -

Here's some highlights from the study:
"in terms of the effect on neighbourly trust, the difference between living in an area as homogeneous as Bismarck, North Dakota, and one as diverse as Los Angeles is roughly as great as the difference between an area with a poverty rate of 7 percent and one with a poverty rate of 23 percent, or between an area with 36 percent college graduates and one with none."

"However, a wide array of other measures of social capital and civic engagement are also negatively correlated with ethnic diversity. In areas of greater diversity, our respondents demonstrate:
Lower confidence in local government, local leaders and the local news media.
Lower political efficacy - that is, confidence in their own influence.
Lower frequency of registering to vote, but more interest and knowledge about politics and more participation in protest marches and social reform groups.
Less expectation that others will cooperate to solve dilemmas of collective action (e.g., voluntary conservation to ease a water or energy shortage).
Less likelihood of working on a community project.
Lower likelihood of giving to charity or volunteering.
Fewer close friends and confidants.
Less happiness and lower perceived quality of life.
More time spent watching television and more agreement that 'television is my most important form of entertainment.'"

"For the primary indicators of social capital discussed earlier (i.e. social trust, community attachment and sociability) each of these two separate measures of diversity [They were "Percent Black" and "Percent immigrant"] has a significant and independent negative effect, though percent immigrant seems to have a somewhat more consistent and powerful effect."

Of course he says some stuff to make diversity seem oh so great (took him 5 years to come up with the excuses) but it's all nonsense.

The condensed effects of diversity according to the above study:
- Less confidence in local government, leaders, and news
- Less political efficacy/confidence
- Less likelihood to vote
- More protests and social reform
- Less expectation of cooperation in dilemmas (= less confidence in community cohesiveness)
- Less contributions to the community
- Less close friends
- Less giving to charity and volunteering
- Lower perceived happiness
- Lower perceived quality of life
- More time indoors watching TV
- More dependence on TV for entertainment
- Lowered trust in the community
- Lowered altruism
- More ethnic-based cohesion (aka, more "Racism")


Mixed-race patients struggle to find match in bone marrow donor

May 28, 2009|Juliana Barbassa, Associated Press

HAYWARD, Calif. - If Nick Glasgow, 28, were white, he would have a nearly 90 percent chance of finding a matching bone marrow donor who could cure his leukemia. But because the bodybuilder is one-quarter Japanese, his doctor warned him the outlook was grim. Glasgow's background would make it almost impossible to find a match, which usually comes from a patient's own ethnic group. The doctor "didn't say it was slim-to-none. He didn't say it would be hard. He said 'zero chance,' " Glasgow's mother, Carole Wiegand, recalled with tears in her eyes. "When Nick heard that, it sent him plummeting."


Crohn's disease in one mixed-race population in Brazil.


Non-white patients with Crohn's disease had an earlier diagnosis and appeared to have had a more severe disease presentation than white patients.

Students of mixed races report suffering more health problems


CHAPEL HILL -- A new study that involved surveying 90,000 adolescent U.S. students showed that those who considered themselves to be of mixed race were more likely than others to suffer from depression, substance abuse, sleep problems and various aches and pains.
Conducted by researchers at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the National Institutes of Health, the investigation found that adolescents of mixed race were more likely to have other health problems as well.
"It did not matter what races the students identified with, the risks were higher for all of them if they did not identify with a single race," said Dr. J. Richard Udry, principal author of a paper on the work appearing in the November issue of the American Journal of Public Health.
"Most of the risk items we assessed may be related to stress, and so we believe being of mixed race is a source of stress," Udry said. "From this work, we cannot identify further the sources of that stress. More research is needed to identify those sources and possibly suggest programs that might help biracial adolescents."


Ryan Buell, of Italian and Native American ancestry, fighting pancreatic cancer at age 30.


Yet, while the vast majority of people are endogamous and marry within their own race, what about those who do not? And what about those who have mixed-race children? Rushton has argued that the lower frequency of shared genes in racially mixed families might result in: less intense bonding, greater conflict, and fewer children.[...]

An English Man and a Japanese Woman: As genetic distance figures above note, an English man would be around 59 times more closely related to a Dane than to his Japanese wife.

An English Female and a Black (Bantu) Father: Using the genetic distance figures above, the distance even widens with a white-black relationship. The English woman would be around 109 times more closely related to a Dane than to her black husband, and he would overwhelmingly be more closely related to his black co-ethnics than to his wife. [...]

In other words and general terms, a white mother will be almost as twice as closely related to a child with a white father versus a child with a black father. Because same-race parents share more genes, each parent is likely to see more of his or her genes in the offspring even if they are not passed on directly. For example, if the father has gene X and doesn't pass it on directly to his son, there's a good chance his same-race spouse will have gene X and pass it on, so the son will indirectly possess the father's gene X.

Noting phenotype in mixed-race children, each parent would more closely resemble co-ethnics than their own child, especially the white mother, since whites tend to have recessive traits for appearance. (A person only 1/16 black will often still have visible and prominent black features.)

And appearance does matter. The fact that mixed-race children do not resemble the parents, esp. the fairer parent, seems to be an issue of concern, although not widely discussed. In a candid letter about having a multiracial baby with a man from India, an English mother notes:

""She's getting very dark, isn't she?" This is what one of my friends recently said about my much adored - 12-week-old daughter. She didn't mean to be rude. But it was a comment that struck me with the force of a jab to the stomach. Immediately, I was overwhelmed by a confusion of emotions. I felt protective, insulted, worried, ashamed, guilty, all at once. The reason? My lovely, wriggly, smiley baby is mixed race..... The truth is, whatever the label, the fact there is a label proves that my daughter's conflicting parentage matters....But when I turn to the mirror in my bedroom to admire us together, I am shocked. She seems so alien. With her long, dark eyelashes and shiny, dark brown hair, she doesn't look anything like me. I know that concentrating on how my daughter looks is shallow. She is a person in her own right, not an accessory to me. But still, I can't shake off the feeling of unease. I didn't realise how much her looking different would matter and, on a rational level, I know it shouldn't. But it does. Evolution demands that we have children to pass on our genes, hence the sense of pride and validation we get when we see our features reappearing in the next generation. With my daughter, I don't have that....But self-flagellation is not useful. I have more pressing concerns. I am now the mother of a 'black' child, even if she is more the hue of weak tea than espresso.... When she was born, pale but with lots of dark hair, I asked the midwife if her eyes would stay blue. 'Asian genes are very strong,' she said in what I took to be an ominous tone. No more Brady Bunch kids for me. The midwife has been proved right and every day my baby's eyes get a little darker."

Since parents share fewer genes with mixed-race children, people involved in interracial marriages are short-changing their own genes, which might explain why people engaged in mixed-race relationships often tend to have lower mate value. A recent survey found that white women who date black men tend to be fatter, dumber and more quarrelsome than average.

Given the very real problems with having mixed-race children (such as the fact that parents often feel estranged from children who do not resemble them and that the child will never fully identify with the ancestral traditions of the parents, esp. the lighter parent), it is unsurprising that mixed-race children suffer more problems of identity and health. For instance, mixed-race people are less likely to survive organ transplants, especially bone marrow transplants. In general, mixed-race people have more health problems. [...]

In other words, an argument could be made that mixed-race families are maladaptive -- both for the parents and the children -- and undermine one's genetic interests. As noted by various commenters, multiracial families often do not possess the harmony, cooperation and purposefulness of same-race families, because mixed-race families lack the focus of genetic investment and returns that same-race families possess.

Speaking with mixed race people, as an anecdote, I notice that they are or incredibly healthy or tend to have bad health.


Mixed Race Beauty Gets a Mainstream Makeover

Are mixed race faces considered the most beautiful? A recent report from Allure magazine says yes. Results of a survey conducted by Allure reveal that 64 percent of its readers thought mixed race was the most attractive. The editors attribute the results to the growing population of mixed race youth. As much as I’d like to agree it appears that this is just another case of wishful racial thinking.

Here are a few reasons why. We need to remember that beauty and race are both social constructions—concepts societies create that may not actually exist in nature. As a result, beauty and race are associated with and impacted by class, immigration, gender, sexuality and marketing. Case in point: Since the Time magazine cover in the late 1990s, multiracials are more and more said to be the face of 21st century America. But what’s less known is that even this image was altered to look less “Hispanic/Latino” and more “European.” [...]

Given these facts, it is more accurate to say that mixed race people who appear racially ambiguous are being assimilated slowly into mainstream standards of beauty—not changing them.

Journal of Social Issues, Vol. 65, No. 1, 2009, pp. 129--149

To Disclose or Not to Disclose Biracial Identity: The Effect of Biracial Disclosure on Perceiver Evaluations and Target Responses

Are biracial people perceived more negatively than their monoracial counterparts?
Across two studies, we compared ratings of warmth, competence, and minority
scholarship worthiness for biracial (Study 1: Black/White, Study 2: Asian/White),
White, and minority (Study 1: Black, Study 2: Asian) college applicants. Findings
suggest that both biracial applicants were perceived as colder and sometimes less
competent than both White and corresponding minority applicants.
biracial people were also perceived as less qualified for minority scholarships
than other racial minorities, which is partially explained by penalties to warmth
and competence
. Study 3 shows that disclosing one’s biracial identity makes
biracial people vulnerable to negative feedback.
Taken together, these studies
suggest that biracial people who disclose their biracial identity experience bias
from perceivers and may be more vulnerable to that bias because of the personal
nature of racial disclosure.
Findings are discussed considering the stereotype
content model (Cuddy, Fiske, & Glick, 2007), cultural stereotypes about biracial
people (Jackman, Wagner, & Johnson, 2001), and the costs of disclosing devalued

The "pro" argument:

No Biological Basis For Race, Scientists Say / Distinctions prove to be skin deep


[...]Namely, that the very concept of race is bogus and has no basis in biology, according to most scientists.

“This dialogue on race is driving me up the wall,” said Jefferson Fish, a psychologist at St. John’s University in New York who has written extensively about race in America. “Nobody is asking the question, ‘What is race?’ It is a biologically meaningless category. It is a cultural term that Americans use to describe what a person’s ancestry is…

…Despite this, many Americans still believe in three great racial groups, a system developed in Europe and North America in the 18th century…

…If anything, the president’s initiative should have been on racism, say the scientists. For, even without race, racism can exist as a belief that ancestry is a significant factor in cultural and behavioral differences among peoples…

…In years past, children of mixed marriages “were assigned the racial (and legal) status of the more subordinate parent,” said Faye Harrison, an anthropologist at the University of South Carolina [now University of Florida].

That rule, called . . . the ‘one drop rule’ (for one drop of blood), has worked to classify me as African American, period,” said Harrison. “Despite the fact that I, like most other African Americans I know, have a mixed heritage and mixed ‘race’ genealogy. But that multicultural or multiracial reality is part of my extended family’s private transcript, not our public identity as blacks, as African Americans.”

Mixed race children and young people are individual nation states. They defy classification


Through genetics as well as global diversity, we are creating a new lingua franca. It is very exciting that the census confirms a small but steady movement towards citizens that embody the principles of global citizenship. They are a reminder to us all of Cedric Dover’s emerging – and perhaps, bigger? – plan.

Mixed race marriage: 'my race didn't fit'


Two families – two very different reactions. But the result for us was the same; in marrying into another culture, we forfeited full membership of our own. Ten years on, our relationship has stood the test of time, but nothing has changed. We have a foot in each camp, but we belong in neither, and whenever terrorist attacks cause people to close ranks, or during times of national pride, that's when we find ourselves on the outside looking in. We've learnt to carve out our own identity, to make our own traditions and infuse them with the enthusiasm that should have come from a shared family experience. Inter-race relationships, now more common than ever before, still face a fight for societal and cultural acceptance. Racism is rife in Britain. Don't kid yourselves – times haven't changed that much since the 1960s.

As you can see, I found more "against" arguments more than anything else. The other pro arguments are really not that "pro" in that it is more like Hollywood propaganda.

I'm declaring myself a cosmo-politan, or a citizen of the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind :D


Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I dont think this feeling of being "uprooted" has much to do with being mixed-race. I am black and consider myself also a citizen of the world. Perhaps in my case it was a back-lash after perceiving that blacks tend to be the most racist of all against other blacks. I just did not know until today that this phenomenon had a name - Internalized Racism.
Thanks Luke for starting this thread. Learning a lot!

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Psyche, Stormfront is a notorious white supremacist site (they call it "White Nationalist"). I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say.


FOTCM Member
Mr. Premise said:
Psyche, Stormfront is a notorious white supremacist site (they call it "White Nationalist"). I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say.

Yeah and considering that I left only the rants linked to studies, it could have been much worse.
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