Is what we do "important"?

[genero81]

Awareness is key. What they (4D STS) are attempting to do is such over the top hubris. They are arrogant. They think they can keep all of us contained in conceptual prison in spite of the Wave. They cannot.

What we do is expand our awareness and then do what we can to help expand the awareness of others. The rest will work itself out, however it works itself out. OSIT

 

[Michal]

Hi,

Dichotomy: doesn't matter what we do as the reality will unfold despite our deeds vs we do influence reality.

Do I understand it correctly?

First impression came to my mind: "holly indifference" concept in Catholic Church by Ignatius Loyola.
Idea that it is important to work but it shall not make me important for myself. Work is for the Love.

 

[Cosmos]

Every time I thought about it in the past I was thinking that maybe either some of us (or more than just some) have an important part to play in the future in some ways (maybe according to personal mission plans/destinies) and/or that we in general might be seeding something very important for future generations, maybe in similar ways Putin does in the eastern/southern sphere of the world. From an historical perspective. Either way I think what we have seen and gone through personally in this or other lifetimes might have been tests for steeling us for what is to come. Which might be much worse and/or different from what we have seen so far. Starting from each even seemingly “small“ personal lesson up to “big“ lessons “out there“.

 

[T.C.]

Obvious question is what is "Successful outcome"? This starts with a assumption that we know what the problem is , what is the solution is , what the outcome is.

Yes, this question came to mind for me, too.

In the first quote, the C’s didn’t say that what the group does is not important, they just said that what the programmers do is more important.

In the second quote, when they mentioned the successful outcome, it sounds to me like whatever it is, it is mostly linked to the group staying together and not breaking up; and it was in the context of an attack which was meant to be divisive.

They go on to talk about the negative programming done in childhood. It again would seem that said programming would be installed to trigger thought loops and emotions and filtering of reality and spinning interpretations which then lead to thoughts and actions which cause splits in the group.

So, on the whole, it sounds to me like if there is anything at all that the group need to do, then it would be anything and everything required to stay together.

After all, if the group are the C’s in the future, and the C’s are the programmers, and the group breaks up, then there’s no programmers to do whatever it is they’re doing that’s more important than what the group are doing.

 

[T.C.]

Yes, this question came to mind for me, too.

In the first quote, the C’s didn’t say that what the group does is not important, they just said that what the programmers do is more important.

In the second quote, when they mentioned the successful outcome, it sounds to me like whatever it is, it is mostly linked to the group staying together and not breaking up; and it was in the context of an attack which was meant to be divisive.

They go on to talk about the negative programming done in childhood. It again would seem that said programming would be installed to trigger thought loops and emotions and filtering of reality and spinning interpretations which then lead to thoughts and actions which cause splits in the group.

So, on the whole, it sounds to me like if there is anything at all that the group need to do, then it would be anything and everything required to stay together.

After all, if the group are the C’s in the future, and the C’s are the programmers, and the group breaks up, then there’s no programmers to do whatever it is they’re doing that’s more important than what the group are doing.

However, when they say:

This was intended to make dysfunctional traits that would interfere with the successful completion of your respective missions. It is a great challenge.

I don’t know. They speak of “respective missions”, not just a group mission as a whole to stick together or something.

 

[Liliea]

I think the Cass. express themselves in different "strata" or levels of understanding and what I understand is that they also learn and do the work of going to seventh density, in that sense, and as part of service to others is to assist in the polarization or choice in third density of the cycle for the *harvest*. So answers like /sharing and personal development is important,/ is because it makes individuals aware of their choice of SS or SO which is the basis of individual development in 3D and seeking balance in 4D that is /"why we are "crucial to success "/ And as in higher densities time does not exist or is not perceived as 3D ,to the answer about our own personal development, surely individuals who cannot work on their programs are given plenty of time/space to refine these inner balances of their personal development.
Is there dichotomy? No, everything is One.
Is what we do important? Yes, because our soul impels us to help others to awaken and not to repeat the cycle that for us means suffering and that is why we are here. In higher terms we are here to help creation to be and to expand even if we are only a grain of sand.

 

[gottathink]

Note that they said “closer to” second criterion, they didn’t say the second criterion was correct entirely. I conclude we are not having any influence on the mechanisms of the Wave, but we are influencing our experience of it. We do what’s in front of us , is what we do. To not do that, would cause us to remain in stasis. I mean this for us as a group, and all others on this planet earth who are ‘seeing’ what’s going on.

This is how I understand it. When surfing depending on one’s position, if you do nothing a wave will pass under you, or you will be caught in a break and get rolled like a rag doll. To surf, as I’ve been learning over past few years, I’ve had to learn about the break, the rips, the wind, the tides, timing my paddle in, power application at the right time, coordination and balance. In addition it’s required mental calm and focus. Then pop up just before the wave breaks and there we have it—wave riding.

This all requires doing and being with a good deal of sustained efforts. But not one bit if it changes the wave itself.
There must be a reason that it’s been referred to as The Wave.

Edit: I just thought that position, where one is, dictates what one needs to do. So we have to ‘see’ what’s happening around and act accordingly. ‘It’s not where you are matters, but what you see”. Just like being at the beach catching waves.

 

[gottathink]

Note that they said “closer to” second criterion, they didn’t say the second criterion was correct entirely. I conclude we are not having any influence on the mechanisms of the Wave, but we are influencing our experience of it. We do what’s in front of us , is what we do. To not do that, would cause us to remain in stasis. I mean this for us as a group, and all others on this planet earth who are ‘seeing’ what’s going on.

This is how I understand it. When surfing depending on one’s position, if you do nothing a wave will pass under you, or you will be caught in a break and get rolled like a rag doll. To surf, as I’ve been learning over past few years, I’ve had to learn about the break, the rips, the wind, the tides, timing my paddle in, power application at the right time, coordination and balance. In addition it’s required mental calm and focus. Then pop up just before the wave breaks and there we have it—wave riding.

This all requires doing and being with a good deal of sustained efforts. But not one bit if it changes the wave itself.
There must be a reason that it’s been referred to as The Wave.

Edit: I just thought that position, where one is, dictates what one needs to do. So we have to ‘see’ what’s happening around and act accordingly. ‘It’s not where you are matters, but what you see”. Just like being at the beach catching waves.

I realise this is pretty simplistic but I don’t see a dichotomy. Perhaps I’m not getting it and am just being simple minded. A Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[Kmicic]

I think we should not consider these statements as absolute assumptions. E.g. We as us as ego may be irrelevant but the very fact that we exist in this form and not another may initiate a certain series of events something like a biological key to an always existing door. The key may break down or rot, then another and another key will be created, but if this key appears in the right form at the right time it will be able to open a door that will always remain open. Is the key itself important? Without the door it is useless. However, the key at the time of opening the door is unique one of a kind and most important for the opening process.

 

[EmeraldR]

Hi,

Dichotomy: doesn't matter what we do as the reality will unfold despite our deeds vs we do influence reality.

Do I understand it correctly?

First impression came to my mind: "holly indifference" concept in Catholic Church by Ignatius Loyola.
Idea that it is important to work but it shall not make me important for myself. Work is for the Love.

St. Ignatius called ‘holy indifference.’ You want God to help you learn to not simply be resigned to, but to embrace your life’s limitations. If you learn to embrace, nothing will touch you — neither praise nor criticism, success or failure, because you know what you are.”

from a daoist perspective - its not about overly attaching to one side or the other -and from that perspective there is a clear seeing rather like the fulcrum at the middle point of a seesaw . soon as the aquisitive tendency grasps at one or the other side the point is missed there is no balance. It could be that to overly invest in one or the other might give rise to a false sense of identity whose components are made up of delusion,hatred and suffering .



just a few reflections - thanks Joe for opening this thread ;)

 

[Joe]

Yes, this question came to mind for me, too.

In the first quote, the C’s didn’t say that what the group does is not important, they just said that what the programmers do is more important.

Well, maybe. Although read it again. Laura asks, basically, if it's important for her to do what she had been trying to do up until then, and what she has been doing since then until now, i.e. spread the word. That is what was/is in Laura to do, and certainly she probably had it in mind that it was a kind of "war for souls and the future", as was said later in 2008. In that later session, they said she (among others) was crucial for the successful outcome of that war for souls and the future. Yet in 2000....

Q: Is it important for the information about the potential making new of everything and the awareness of the state of the planet as it is now, or the state of the universe, be shared and spread so that as many people as possible will be aware at the point of the arrival of the wave so that it makes it more likely that beneficial changes will occur, that the universe will change in a positive way? Or is that simply not even important. It will change the way it is going to change no matter what anybody does?

A: Closer to 2nd criterion.

The answer was close to the idea that spreading the word in the war for souls and the future does not really matter so much, and that things will go the way they're going to go regardless.

and they added:

Q: In other words, we are doing what we are doing, and it doesn't really matter what we are doing. The Wave will happen, everything will change, become new, and that's that?

A: What matters most is what others are doing, have done and will do.

Q: Who are these others that it matters most what they have done, are doing and will do?

A: Program rewriters, i.e. you and us in the future.

So how do we square that this group is crucial to the successful outcome of a "war for souls and the future", while at the same time it doesn't really matter much what we actually do or do not do? What part do we play if it isn't really about what we do or do not do, and I think here it may refer to what we consciously try to do or think we should do and then go about trying to do it.

In the second quote, when they mentioned the successful outcome, it sounds to me like whatever it is, it is mostly linked to the group staying together and not breaking up; and it was in the context of an attack which was meant to be divisive.

They go on to talk about the negative programming done in childhood. It again would seem that said programming would be installed to trigger thought loops and emotions and filtering of reality and spinning interpretations which then lead to thoughts and actions which cause splits in the group.

So, on the whole, it sounds to me like if there is anything at all that the group need to do, then it would be anything and everything required to stay together.

After all, if the group are the C’s in the future, and the C’s are the programmers, and the group breaks up, then there’s no programmers to do whatever it is they’re doing that’s more important than what the group are doing.

Right. So maybe what lies behind all of this is a decent amount of predeterminism or predestination (for the religiously-inclined). People think that predestination automatically gives rise to "well, what's the point in doing anything if it's all pre-determined"? But of course, if things are predetermined, then you are required to play your part, as is everyone and everything else, because otherwise there would be nothing to be predetermined, unless "nothing at all happens" is what is predetermined, which wouldn't be much fun.

Looking at both quotes, I think that what was perhaps meant was something along the lines of:

"It doesn't really matter you do, it matters what 'we' do through you. Which requires you to get out of the way with your fixed ideas about 'doing' stuff and just allow things to 'flow' through you, because that's really your purpose".

Basically, y'all are 'god's instruments' so stop trying to 'do stuff' and let him use that instrument in whatever way he has pre-determined he will do.

But there appears to more than one 'god', and more than one 'type' of god. It's in our 'doing stuff' and it producing certain outcomes, both for ourselves and others, that we get an idea which 'god' we are being 'used' by.

And therein lies the extent of our 'free will' what we can actually do, and the struggle it involves. If we decide that we don't like the outcomes of the things we do, and decide to change things, we find we have a lot of work on plates, and most of it internal 'realignment'.

That got pretty philosophically navel-gazey pretty quick! Serves me right for asking hard-to-answer questions! Maybe I should just quit wondering and just go with the flow.

 

[Joe]

I don’t know. They speak of “respective missions”, not just a group mission as a whole to stick together or something.

Unless the respective missions were, individually, to stick together!

 

[Jefferson]

Well, maybe. Although read it again. Laura asks, basically, if it's important for her to do what she had been trying to do up until then, and what she has been doing since then until now, i.e. spread the word. That is what was/is in Laura to do, and certainly she probably had it in mind that it was a kind of "war for souls and the future", as was said later in 2008. In that later session, they said she (among others) was crucial for the successful outcome of that war for souls and the future. Yet in 2000....



The answer was close to the idea that spreading the word in the war for souls and the future does not really matter so much, and that things will go the way they're going to go regardless.

and they added:



So how do we square that this group is crucial to the successful outcome of a "war for souls and the future", while at the same time it doesn't really matter much what we actually do or do not do? What part do we play if it isn't really about what we do or do not do, and I think here it may refer to what we consciously try to do or think we should do and then go about trying to do it.



Right. So maybe what lies behind all of this is a decent amount of predeterminism or predestination (for the religiously-inclined). People think that predestination automatically gives rise to "well, what's the point in doing anything if it's all pre-determined"? But of course, if things are predetermined, then you are required to play your part, as is everyone and everything else, because otherwise there would be nothing to be predetermined, unless "nothing at all happens" is what is predetermined, which wouldn't be much fun.

Looking at both quotes, I think that what was perhaps meant was something along the lines of:

"It doesn't really matter you do, it matters what 'we' do through you. Which requires you to get out of the way with your fixed ideas about 'doing' stuff and just allow things to 'flow' through you, because that's really your purpose".

Basically, y'all are 'god's instruments' so stop trying to 'do stuff' and let him use that instrument in whatever way he has pre-determined he will do.

But there appears to more than one 'god', and more than one 'type' of god. It's in our 'doing stuff' and it producing certain outcomes, both for ourselves and others, that we get an idea which 'god' we are being 'used' by.

And therein lies the extent of our 'free will' what we can actually do, and the struggle it involves. If we decide that we don't like the outcomes of the things we do, and decide to change things, we find we have a lot of work on plates, and most of it internal 'realignment'.

That got pretty philosophically navel-gazey pretty quick! Serves me right for asking hard-to-answer questions! Maybe I should just quit wondering and just go with the flow.

I have thought of these same issues. But the one thing that always it comes back to is that, how can I be a decent dignified person? And what will others say about me when I have passed to the other side? So it is about living a decent life just where we are. And we have tons of knowledge here from this forum and from our readings and from our observations on how to live a good, dignified, and virtuous life. If we can live according to these principles, then I think we are doing exactly what the title of this thread says, something 'important'.

 

[ryu]

The group in 2000 probably didn't have the same maturity than in 2008. Maybe the first statement was to bring humility to the team, to avoid them to develop a sort of sectarian attitude. Maybe the group was ready to receive that information in 2008, and not before. Maybe it was just unecessary, or the group was tested.

Also the world situation 2000 and 2008 were very different. I believe 2008 was the year the Cs declared that the USA had gone beyond the point of no return and destruction was now inevitable. Before that, other futures were open and maybe in more positive ones, this group wouldn't have to be so crucial.

 

[Carl]

So I was wondering if anyone has thought about this and, if so, did you come to any conclusion about this apparent dichotomy

We've all certainly discussed this before and there are many very sound, rational answers, many of which have already been posted, but really it's a question for the heart.

As we see immense suffering, unstoppable machinations by big powers, and the vast body of people falling for the same thing over and over, we look for answers or a narrative in order to even get out of bed in the morning. Then we may question that narrative and go in circles many times.

In the end it comes down to that it does matter, just because it has to. Whats the point in living otherwise?

More specifically to the question, does it matter to the world or just for our development?

One thing I'd say for sure is that there seems to be a powerful line of force working on us that is trying to convince us that nothing we do matters. It's also self-evident to me that the rulers of this world fear human potential in some way, which is why they have to so carefully and subtly move around through time to shape history and do their best to remain undetected.

Personally that makes me quite suspicious and inclined to believe that we do have quite a significant amount of free will and say in the future, if only we can unlock it and stop giving away our energy.