JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect Arrested in Thailand

Laura

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http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_27267751.shtml
Jon Benet Ramsey: American, Ex School Teacher Arrested in Thailand

By Robert Hernandez
Aug 16, 2006

(Update I) An arrest has been made in connection with Jon Benet Ramsey murder case. The Associated Press, citing U.S. law enforcement officials, reported that a man was arrested in Thailand in connection with the slaying.

A report from MSNBC says the man is a 41-year old US citizen and former school teacher and has been or will be charged with the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey.

Federal officials familiar with the case told the AP on condition of anonymity that the man was being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges.

The suspect is expected to arrive back in the United States, possibly within the next two days, accompanied by an investigator from the Boulder DA's office.

The arrest comes nearly 10 years after the 6-year-old girl was found strangled and beaten to death in the basement of her home on the day after Christmas. The arrest gives great hope to many that followed this case closely and wished to see the murderer brought to justice.

Jon Benet Ramsey who many know by the pictures played over and over of her child beauty queen days was found murdered in the basement of her family's upscale Boulder, Colo., home the day after Christmas, 1996.

She was but six-years old at the time.

Many to this day believed that the mother and father John and Patsy Ramsey had something to do with their daughter's death. They refused to submit to a lie detector test and would always insist on being interviewed together and that made many suspicious that were watching the case.

ABC gives a short synopsis on the crime scene:

Patsy Ramsey, first found a handwritten ransom note on the back staircase of the home. It demanded $118,000 - the exact amount the little girl's father, John Ramsey had received as a corporate bonus - if the family wanted to see Jon Benet again. Eight hours later, Patsy Ramsey found her badly beaten daughter's body in the basement.

The Ramseys were steadfast in defending their innocence. "Let me assure you, I did not kill JonBenet," Patsy Ramsey said then. The Ramseys offered a reward of $100,000 to the person who captured their daughter's killer.

Patsy Ramsey died last month of ovarian cancer and is buried next to her daughter.

Ramsey family attorney Hal Haddon told ABC News, "It is our hope that this arrest will bring some closure to the Ramsey family after a 10-year ordeal. We respect the legal process and will have no further comment about the case or the evidence until that process is concluded."
I don't believe it for an instant. It's too convenient. It comes just a couple months after Patsy is dead, and when John Ramsey is running for public office?

I suspect that a deal was made for this guy to "confess" to get John off the hook. He couldn't do that while Patsy was alive...

I think the guy who wrote: "A Mother Gone Bad" had the best scenario that fit all the facts even to the statements of each parent that they, individually, did not kill their child. No, they didn't do it "individually," they BOTH did it.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/0817metjonbenet_.html
Suspect says JonBenet's slaying an accident
Suspect in 10-year-old case is captured in Thailand

By CRAIG SCHNEIDER
Published on: 08/17/06

A former metro Atlanta man said publicly in Thailand on Thursday that he was with JonBenet Ramsey when she was killed and called the 6-year-old's death "an accident."

John Mark Karr, 41, confessed to the killing after his arrest Wednesday at his downtown Bangkok apartment by Thai and American authorities, said Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police.

"I was with JonBenet when she died," Karr told reporters after his arrest, visibly nervous and stuttering as he spoke. "Her death was an accident."

Asked if he was innocent of the crime, Karr said: "No."

Suwat said Karr insisted his crime was not first-degree murder but that she died during a kidnapping attempt that went awry.

"He said it was second-degree murder. He said it was unintentional. He said he was in love with the child, she was a pageant queen," Suwat said.

Karr declined to say what his connection was to the Ramsey family. Dressed in a turquoise polo shirt and khaki trousers, he appeared ashen with an expressionless look on his face.

Karr will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security told a news conference in Bangkok, where Karr was arrested.

News that Karr had been arrested shocked some family members of the little blond girl, whose killing 10 years ago riveted the nation.

Boulder, Colo., District Attorney Mary Lacy said the arrest followed several months of investigation.

The Rocky Mountain News reported Thursday that Karr drew attention to himself with a four-year exchange of e-mail with University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey.

The ongoing exchange was initiated by Karr after he watched a documentary that Tracey - long a vocal proponent of the Ramseys' innocence - produced on JonBenet's death.

Tracey passed on information he developed to former Boulder D.A.'s investigator Lou Smit and El Paso County private investigator Ollie Gray, who in turn pressed Lacy, the district attorney, to pursue Karr.

Federal officials familiar with the case, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Karr was already being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges.

His brother Nate Karr, speaking from their father's home in Atlanta said, "We're sure he's innocent. We heard that there's good DNA evidence. I hope they can test him as soon as possible so they can exonerate him. We're just positive he's innocent. This is ridiculous."

JonBenet Ramsey's name still summons images of her in makeup and elaborate costumes, performing in tiny-tot pageants. Few news stories in the past decade gripped people as the death of JonBenet, a child homicide that occurred during Christmastime and steamrolled into a national obsession. Strangers thronged to her grave in Marietta, filled the Internet with theories and transformed the little girl into an icon identified by just one name: JonBenet.

Ramsey family members, many of whom live in metro Atlanta, said they hoped Wednesday's arrest would finally vindicate her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, who not only suffered her death but then were cast in a tabloid tableau as the chief suspects in the case.

In a statement Wednesday, John Ramsey said he regretted that his wife did not live to see this day. Patsy Ramsey died in June after a long battle with ovarian cancer.

"Patsy was aware that authorities were close to making an arrest in the case, and had she lived to see this day, would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder," he said.

Ramsey family attorney Lin Wood would not comment on whether the Ramseys knew the suspect. He said he knew nothing else about the man other than he previously lived in Atlanta. Wood is an Atlanta attorney who has represented the family since they returned to Atlanta from Boulder shortly after JonBenet's death.

Wood said the Ramseys learned about the suspect at least a month before Patsy Ramsey died on June 24.

"It's been a very long 10 years, and I'm just sorry Patsy isn't here for me to hug her neck," Wood said.

JonBenet was born in Atlanta in 1990 and her family lived in Dunwoody before moving to Colorado. JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of the family's home in Boulder on Dec. 26, 1996.

Although the slaying was among the most investigated and publicized crimes in modern times, news of Karr's arrest emerged without advance warning.

Karr in Alabama

Nate Karr said his younger brother lived with grandparents in Alabama, where he went to high school and college and where he went on to become a teacher.

Bravell Jackson, superintendant of Marion County Schools in Alabama, said he knew Carr as a young boy and taught him in physical education at Hamilton Elementary School.

He said Karr graduated from Hamilton High School around 1983, and for a time was a substitute teacher at the elementary school. "He wasn't here very long, for about 15 days in August and September of 1996, and I had to remove him from the sub list," said Jackson. "There were some complaints from parents. I can't say more than that."

Karr moved to Northern California and taught at several schools. The Sonoma County district attorney's office said Karr had been arrested there in 2001 on several charges of possessing child pornography. He did not show up for a court appearance in December and a warrant was issued for his arrest.

Wednesday evening, Nate Karr told Fox News' Greta Van Susteren that his brother, to his knowledge, did not know the Ramsey family, and did not have any contact with them.

He added, "To my knowledge he never lived in Boulder, Colorado."

"We believe he may have been here in Atlanta with us when this terrible tragedy occurred," Nate Karr said.


He said his brother had been researching a possible book "on men who commit these horrible crimes against children."

Lacy, the Boulder district attorney, said she will hold a press conference today to release further details.

Greg Ramsey, a cousin of JonBenet who lives in Alpharetta, said he was "excited" to hear the news. He said he had been losing hope after so many years without an arrest.

Greg Ramsey, 29, said he has spoken to several family members and none could recall the name John Mark Karr.

He did remember his young cousin, who would have turned 16 on Aug. 6, as a funny, loving child. He recalled her performing "The Star-Spangled Banner" for the family during a summer vacation, excited to show everyone that she remembered all the words.

The details of the girl's death remain vivid in many people's minds: Her father said he found her lifeless body in a seldom-used basement room, duct tape strapped across her mouth, after her mother found a ransom note stating, "We have your daughter."

Investigators said that at one point the Ramseys were under an "umbrella of suspicion" in the slaying, but they were never charged. The Ramseys said an intruder killed their daughter. A grand jury investigation in Boulder ended with no charges.

A retired Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent who worked on the JonBenet Ramsey case says he was surprised by Karr's arrest.

John Lang, who lives in Conyers, was the case agent in the murder investigation based in Atlanta. He told the Rockdale Citizen that Karr's name never surfaced as far as he knows. Lang said he has worked closely with the Boulder police throughout the past several years.


The Citizen reported that officials with the Rockdale County Public Schools said a preliminary search of their records was unable to verify that Karr was employed by the school district during the years he was believed to have lived in the Atlanta area. Reports indicate that would have been between 1988 and 1992. The assistant superintendent for instruction - Bonnie Knight - says a more thorough search is planned for this morning.

Authorities in Rockdale County and Conyers have no record of Karr ever being logged into the county jail, nor does his name appear on any county sex offender registry.

'A long time coming'

Seven months after JonBenet's death, the Ramseys moved from Boulder to a Georgian mansion in northwest Atlanta, not far from where JonBenet - and now Patsy Ramsey - are buried. Several other family members also reside in the area.

Pam Paugh, the sister of Patsy Ramsey and aunt of JonBenet, said from her Roswell home that the family is "elated" that a suspect has been found.

"It's been a long time coming. We always knew this time would come," said Paugh, 47. She said John Ramsey called to tell her an arrest was imminent. "He's quite ready for this to happen. He's quite ready for justice to occur," she said.

Paugh said John Ramsey is still grieving the recent loss of his wife. She said her sister is in heaven and knows the truth and what is happening. "She is probably elated herself," she said.

Paugh said that even though the news story has subsided over the years, the investigation continued behind the scenes and many people prayed for this day to come, she said.

"Thousands have been praying for this day," Paugh said.

The family's hopes were raised when the Boulder County district attorney took over the investigation, she said.

There had been private meetings between the district attorney's office and John and Patsy Ramsey, and Wood, their Atlanta attorney, Paugh said.

Wood said he and the Ramseys "have been totally amazed and impressed with the professionalism of law enforcement" under Lacy's direction. Lacy became district attorney in 2001. Over the years, the Ramseys accused Boulder police of botching the case.

In 2003, U.S. District Judge Julie Carnes in Atlanta concluded that the evidence she reviewed suggested an intruder killed JonBenet. That opinion came with the judge's decision to dismiss a libel and slander lawsuit against the Ramseys by a freelance journalist whom the Ramseys had named as a suspect in their daughter's slaying. The Boulder district attorney at the time said she agreed with Carnes' declaration.

The Ramseys have kept a residence in metro Atlanta but moved full time last fall to the summer place they've owned since 1992 in Charlevoix, a Lake Michigan tourist town about 230 miles northwest of Detroit.

Paugh said the family still had hard feelings toward the Boulder County Police Department, which had named the Ramsey parents as suspects.

"They put us through hell," she said. "They are incompetent."

She said she would let the legal system decide whether the suspect should face the death penalty.

Karr taught at several California schools, and in 2001 was charged with five counts of possessing child pornography, the Petaluma Argus-Courier reported. His teaching credential was suspended and he is still wanted in California, the newspaper said.

Karr and his wife at the time, Laura, married in 1989 and lived in Alabama before moving to Petaluma in 2000. He began teaching in Petaluma and Napa, and Petaluma City Schools received no complaints about his work. Laura Karr filed for divorce in 2001, after he was charged with possessing pornography, the newspaper reported.

Grave site visitor

The St. James Episcopal Church Cemetery in Marietta, where JonBenet, her half sister and her mother are buried, was virtually empty Wednesday afternoon. The dogwood tree that hangs over JonBenet's grave is laden with butterfly and angel ornaments, wind chimes and other items. A pair of blue sunglasses hangs from a yellow ribbon.

An angel statue and smaller figurines have been placed on the grave itself, along with a toy car. Next to the grave are a stone bench and a well-tended shade garden of hostas encircled by a rock wall. Blue and purple flowers are planted on either side of her grave.

Lib Waters of Marietta, who described herself as a longtime friend of the Ramsey family, visited the grave sites Wednesday. Waters taped a piece of notebook paper to JonBenet's headstone with a handwritten message that read: "Dearest Patsy, Justice has come for you and John. Rest in peace."

Paulette Paugh Davis, JonBenet's aunt, who lives in Marietta, said, "We know pretty much as much as you. I'm grieving and ... it is big news. I am grieving. ... I want to be left alone."

Law enforcement officials from Boulder were flying to Bangkok to present Thai authorities with documents in the slaying, officials in Washington said.

Welcome news in Roswell

In the Roswell neighborhood where Patsy Ramsey's father, Donald Paugh, lives, residents said they were glad to hear the news.

"I'm glad for the family they have found someone," said Donna Stokely, 50, who has lived in the Brookfield West subdivision for about eight years. "The family's taken a lot of heat over this. ... Finally they'll have a little bit of closure and a little bit of vindication."

Valerie Barckhoff was walking her dog Wednesday afternoon in the upscale neighborhood just west of Roswell High School. She has lived in the neighborhood about two years. "I'm sure they've got to be relieved," she said of the Ramsey relatives. As a mother, Barckhoff reflected on Patsy Ramsey, who died before a suspect was arrested in her daughter's death. "I would think it would have given her some peace, knowing that there was some closure," Barckhoff said.

Tim Crain was exercising in the gym at the Brookfield Country Club when he saw the news about the arrest on TV. "I'm shocked they found somebody - it's taken so long," said Crain, who lives in Whittingham Park, a neighboring community. "Good for them. It's amazing. How do you find someone in Thailand?"

Billy and Yvonne Garmon have lived in Brookfield Glen for two years.

"I was glad to hear [Patsy] was aware of this before her death," Yvonne Garmon said. "It was halfway across the world, but I'm glad they went that far to pursue it."

Dan Tretinik of Roswell said he had two thoughts when heard about the arrest on the radio.

"My first thought, 'It's been an awfully long time. I never thought they'd get a lead or anyone ever," Tretinik said. "Second thought, 'It's about time. You'd like to think justice is going to be served."
 

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http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_228220900.html

Wecht Has Doubts About Ramsey Murder Arrest

David Highfield
Reporting

(KDKA) PITTSBURGH Former Allegheny County Coroner Dr. Cyril Wecht has studied the JonBenet Ramsey murder case in depth.

He even co-authored a book about the case a few years ago.

But Wecht has a wait and see attitude about the arrest of John Karr.

And as KDKA's David Highfield reports, the arrest hasn't changed some of Wecht's previous conclusions.

The title of his book is "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?"

So Highfield asked Dr. Wecht for his answer.

"I believe that somebody inside the house... let's leave it at that," said Wecht.

First off, Wecht says there's the question of evidence.

"I find no physical evidence," said Wecht. "And there isn't any -- hair, fiber, footprints, fingerprints of an outside intruder to come into the house and leave no point of entry, no point of exit."

Second, Wecht questions how someone unfamiliar with the house would know where JonBenet's room was and then there's the ransom note asking for a specific amount of money.

"The $118,000 which was the amount of money that John Ramsey had gotten as a bonus payment the year before," said Wecht. "Something known to less than a handful of people."

So did Karr know the Ramsey family?

The answer remains unclear for now.

And as for Doctor Wecht's reaction to the arrest.

"The arrest of somebody in Thailand has not, for me thus far, dispelled those reasonable doubts," he said.

Wecht does believe the killer, whomever it was, did not intend to kill JonBenet.

"I believe that her death was the result of a game that was being played," said Wecht.

Not everyone agrees with Dr. Wecht.

Back in 1993, a federal judge concluded that an intruder did kill JonBenet.

A District Attorney in Boulder agreed.

Wecht was never actually hired by anyone in this case.

He became involved after he was contacted by national news outlets.
 

Cyre2067

The Living Force
I heard this this morning as my mom was listening to the today show. My first comment was "no more lebanon eh?" I hate how MSM just jumps on one story, makes it THE story and everything else ceases to exist.

And again, confession? Come'on... we know they can be artificially produced, by a number of means.

Something stinks.
 

anart

The Living Force
The timing is VERY suspicious - it smacks of a set up to clear the way for John Ramsey to do whatever it is he has his eyes on now - I don't believe it for a minute.
It makes little sense to me that a guy from Atlanta would know this little girl well enough to show up on the other side of the country to 'kidnap' her and also not be connected to good ole' John and Patsy.

It sounds like there was a gathering at which 'certain things' were taking place with full knowledge, consent and participation of both parents and something 'went wrong'. This guy is taking the fall for it - he very well may have been there when it happened, but that doesn't mean that the parents were not. It all stinks to high heaven, imo.
 
P

paulnotbilly

Guest
I remember Icke mentioned this in one of his books, the idea being the sacrifice of the eldest child, the other examples put forward was the miscarriages of Gordon Browns wife and Prince Edwards wife, Countess Sophie of Wessex (I think) and a certain Mohammed al-Fayed. He said that often the price is paid a number of years before you get the wealth/power etc.

One thing that struck me was the denial of the murder, sounded rather reminiscent of the Soham murders where Huntley said something along the lines of 'I didn't do it - it was an accident'.
 

knowledge_of_self

The Living Force
anart said:
The timing is VERY suspicious - it smacks of a set up to clear the way for John Ramsey to do whatever it is he has his eyes on now - I don't believe it for a minute.
It makes little sense to me that a guy from Atlanta would know this little girl well enough to show up on the other side of the country to 'kidnap' her and also not be connected to good ole' John and Patsy.

It sounds like there was a gathering at which 'certain things' were taking place with full knowledge, consent and participation of both parents and something 'went wrong'. This guy is taking the fall for it - he very well may have been there when it happened, but that doesn't mean that the parents were not. It all stinks to high heaven, imo.
Hi,
I agree with you and Laura here Anne, something stinks!
One thing that this reminds me of which is something Cyre hinted at is the fact that this story comes out NOW. This reminded me of the Michael Jackson "molestation" case right around when the Iraq war began. I know this whole thing is fishy with Patsy dead and now John running for public office, but this recent news also smacks of distraction of the public to what is going on in the Middle East osit.

Nina
 

highmystica

Jedi Master
As I see it, firstly the guy that they have charged with the murder could not have been the one responsible, he has no knowledge of what actually happened. He claims he picked her up from school - the day after christmas - um, during christmas break?, He claimed that he drugged her - never mind the tox-screen turned up nothing, or even that he "accidently" killed her, she was garroted, and hit over the head with such force a chunk of her skull was broken out. The is nothing but absolute intent to kill - and cruely at that - so it couldn't even be a case of simply something "going wrong" either.

Secondly, all the evidence has always pointed to somebody within the family. My initial suspicion was of the brother, though I think after time the parents did come to know the truth of it and covered for him. It seems far more likely that her brother, perhaps a psychopath, was jealous and harbored ill feelings both for being "replaced" and for all the attention JonBenet recieved (afterall psychos "need" to be the center of attention), decided to kill her and pass it off as a kidnapping and asking for the 118,000 dollar bonus his father had recieved ... but something went wrong - his mother happened to go down into the basement. If that theory is wrong, then it still has a lot of the marks of being ritualistic - this newest "break" in the case is just wrong. Or perhaps to quote a line - not even wrong.

As it is I hate high profile cases like this, O.J., Micheal Jackson, that Petterson guy (sorry can't remember his first name), etc. I don't really think they are even news worthy, at least not how they are protrayed, it is only sensationalism. Then media gets stuff like this and runs with it ad nauseum - instead of actually reporting the news.
 

anart

The Living Force
As Joe might write, as I'm thinking about this, "I feel a Lobaczewski quote coming on".... regarding the fact that Laura brought up about John Ramsey running for public office, and Lobaczewski's understanding of a Pathocratic system...

Lobaczewski said:
After such a system has lasted several years, one hundred percent of all the cases of essential psychopathy become involved in the pathocratic activity
John had to make sure someone was arrested to lift the cloud from his name, to make his election less suspect - it's his time to join and he's waited oh, so long already...

In John Ramsey's world, money buys any and everything - (oh, that we have to share that world)
 
L

Lucy

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I agree that this is just way too convenient, it was my very first thought when I saw the headline. The timing is somehow connected to Patsy dying, osit. As if John couldn't get away with it if she were still alive.

Meanwhile, the "suspect," John Mark Karr, although I can't see him as the real killer, does seem to be a very creepy individual, and most certainly a pedophile. This help make him a 'plausable' suspect for those who 'want' to be convinced, or who decide not to look at it too closely, for whatever reason.

If the info in his wiki-entry is correct, then he's got a long history of preying on youngsters in a variety of ways, including online. Yet, it also points out his ex-wife claims he was with her in Alabama during the entire 1996 Christmas holidays.

I'm thinking he may have been obsessed with the case, perhaps fantasizing about it so much that he 'feels' involved. Perhaps he wishes he had done it, or been there! Or he has had some 'assistance' in being 'convinced' he was involved.

Lobaczewski said:
After such a system has lasted several years, one hundred percent of all the cases of essential psychopathy become involved in the pathocratic activity
And perhaps that "involvment" can take many forms, such as being 'used' as a fall guy. After all, who's the more 'elite' essential psychopath who has 'earned' this protection/status, or is more pathocratically useful to the plans of the PTB? John Ramsey has money and connections, and, if elected to office, can end up having a direct effect on the lives of many people...both children and adults.

From The Rocky Mountain News is asking:
Expert: 'Do we have a wack-job or a murderer?'

Photo by Sakchai Lalit (c) AP

Former schoolteacher John Mark Karr, is being taken to a police news conference at the Immigration Police office in Bangkok, Thailand, on Thursday. Karr, 41, admitted to the killing after he was arrested at his downtown Bangkok apartment
..........

I'm thinking Karr is a "wack-job" in more ways than one!

BTW-- What's up with the big happy grin on the face of the Thai policeman who's holding onto Karr in the above photo? Whether he had anything to do with the death of JonBenet or not, he's still a pedophile. I wouldn't be able to produce a big grin while touching him!
 

Laura

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Lucy said:
I agree that this is just way too convenient, it was my very first thought when I saw the headline. The timing is somehow connected to Patsy dying, osit. As if John couldn't get away with it if she were still alive.
Yes, and that seems to be one of the keys to the whole thing: the relations between John and Patsy and what may REALLY have happened on that night that involved BOTH of them in a way that is so sick as to be beyond comprehension.

I have read a TON on this subject and I think the best book, the one with the most likely scenario that actually fit ALL the facts, was "A Mother Gone Bad: The Hidden Confession of JonBenet's Killer"

(Looks like there are only a few used copies left and it is out of print).

Amazon blurb says:

What really happened that horrific Christmas night in 1996 when six-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was brutally murdered in her family's Boulder, Colorado mansion? Many people are convinced we'll never know. Crucial evidence is missing or was mishandled, and the investigation has appeared stymied. But now, psychiatrist Andrew G. Hodges reveals not only the identity of the killer, but also exactly what took place during the final hours of JonBenet's life - evidence that is all the more compelling because it comes directly from the killer's own mind.

Dr. Hodges, who has been interviewed by detectives directly involved in the case, deciphers the hidden messages in the infamous ransom note as well as other written and spoken communications that are critical to the case.

Working as a detective of the human mind, Hodges unfolds the riveting story step-by-step, Columbo style. And he shows how the murderer has clearly confessed.

Charles Donald Byron, Special Agent FBI (retired), tells us, "As a seasoned, skeptical FBI agent, I am now convinced." And, as Dr. James O. Raney of the University of Washington School of Medicine reveals, "This is a story of jealousy, envy, revenge, hate and love. The participants try to cover an event that is the stuff of classic drama - if Dr. Hodges is correct - 'at the end of the Greek tragedy, the fantastic turns out to be true.'"
It is an amazing analysis and can teach us a lot. I highly recommend it and once you get it, hang on to it. I think this is one of those things of rare truth in our reality...
 

Laura

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From:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/literary/5.html

While the obvious suspects were the parents, a grand jury failed to indict them with the evidence presented. The crime remains unsolved, although one psychiatrist has stepped forward to say that not only is it clear who committed the crime, but it's also clear as to why. It's all in the note. You just have to know how to read between the lines.

In his book, Who Will Speak for JonBenet?, Andrew G. Hodges makes some bold claims about the information that the ransom note actually reveals, and he draws on a discipline called psycholinguistics to discuss his notion of "thoughtprints."

Inspired by the work of Dr. Robert Langs, who in the 1970s observed a superior form of intelligence in the subliminal messages of his patients, Hodges goes on to claim that every action we take has an underlying motive---the subconscious knows what it is. Not only that, but the deeper mind then nudges the person with the fact that he or she has "unfinished business" and communicates that in various ways, specifically via written communication. That means that reading thoughtprints can become an entirely new approach to forensic document analysis.

Hodges is a psychiatrist in Birmingham Alabama. Author of The Deeper Mind, he believes that we all have a deep intelligence that comes out in our everyday communications, although many of us fail to notice it. The idea is that with the unconscious mind people observe events clearly and honestly, and since they have a need to tell the truth to achieve emotional wholeness, the mind finds ways to put the truth it knows out there. It just takes a skilled "reader" to decode what's being said.

When the Ramsey ransom note was published and thereby made publicly available, Hodges began to study it out of curiosity. From its clues, he developed a picture of what sort of person the murderer would be and finally a key clue provided the full picture: It was Patsy Ramsey. That revelation led Hodges to reveal her covert confession in A Mother Gone Bad.

"As an expert in reading between the lines," he says, "I am no different from a detective who enters a crime scene. His first function is to observe as much as humanly possible about the scene, gleaning every possible clue." Hodges looks at the handwriting, at the idiosyncrasies revealed in misspellings, spacing, and grammar, at efforts to correct, and at the overall context. "I look at each word for two messages, not one," he says. The second one is the subconsciously-encoded message.

According to a seventy-page analysis that he and two colleagues sent to the Boulder district attorney, killers cannot stop themselves from confessing in some manner and the confession that's hidden in the ransom note indicates:

* the killer is a woman
* the killer is a cancer victim
* whoever wrote the note participated in the murder
* her husband participated in the murder and cover-up
* she expects to be caught
* her motive was anger and deep pain
* she offers details about what precipitated the murder
* she provides a way to catch them
* the note itself was prompted by psychological motives
* the ransom amount indicates that this was not really a kidnapping
* the victim was dead before the note was written
* the ransom note is a story told by a firsthand witness, and whoever finds it should "listen carefully"-this is repeated four times

Furthermore, when Patsy Ramsey made public statements, such as in her hour-long CNN interview, she named other family murder cases---those involving O. J. Simpson and Susan Smith (who drowned her two sons), both of whom attempted to cover up a brutal crime. According to Hodges, this is her unconscious way of saying that she is like them. These associations also point to a love triangle and a sense of loss, as well as to apparently upstanding citizens who would be above public suspicion but who nevertheless participated in heinous crimes. Both Simpson and Smith also tried to manipulate the media on their own behalf. Linking her case to theirs is a clear thoughtprint indicator that her subconscious wants others to see what she has done.

Then when John and Patsy published a book telling their own story in The Death of Innocence, they reconfirmed over and over in unconscious patterns how they did the deed and covered it up.

Following a consistent communication between the lines is called following a "red thread," because people generally make the case against themselves (self-accusation) and it's just a matter of observing how they did it.

Patsy's thoughtprints, Hodges points out, generally surround health concerns, failing beauty, fear of a rival, the awareness that two people colluded, and the need to keep winning. John's involve a need to confess, a hidden identity, loss of control, and the need to put this behind him.

An example of Hodge's method is his analysis of the signature line of the ransom note, in which the author left a significant space between the 'i' and 'c' of victory, leaving Vi ctory." Hodges takes this to be the subconscious communication that this is the story about a six-year-old. How does he come up with that? "ctory" is close to "story" and VI is the roman numeral for six. Since Roman numerals were significant for Patsy Ramsey after having been diagnosed with stage IV ovarian cancer in 1993, her unconscious mind absorbed that information and used it to communicate something more than she meant to do.

Another example is the fact that she misspelled business as "bussiness," which Hodges interprets as her attempt to communicate "buss/kiss/romance/sex." A "buss" is a kiss that implies romance and sex.

He also makes an issue of the many times things occur in patterns of three, and finds a way to connect this to the Ramseys as well.

Although he sent all of this to the prosecution team, he found that few people acknowledged its significance as definitive proof. Hodges believes that the authorities fail to take his reading seriously because 1) they don't want to deal with the darker issues of parents who kill their children, and 2) they don't wish to admit that the subconscious can so openly reveal their own secrets.

Hodges feels certain that his work will hold up in court as a confirmed scientific method, both under the Frye "general acceptance" and the broader Daubert rulings. He bases this on support from the dean of a law school, but that in no way means that a judge will agree, or that the method has been tested through a court procedure and can stand up to appeals. Certainly there are mental health experts who will point out its unsound properties. That would make a prosecutor hesitate and that means that using it to "prove" the murderer's identity may offer the court no more than a polygraph does. If its admission into court is scientifically controversial, then it's not going to be useful in the case except perhaps as a way to get the killer to confess.

Nevertheless, the psychoanalytic method has a long and respected history, so a forensic application of this method to written or verbal communications ought at least to be explored.
 

Laura

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From:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/19.html
The DNA Evidence
by Marilyn Bardsley


It took a mere seven years for the Boulder law enforcement community to send the FBI the DNA sample that was found in JonBenet's underpants. It was determined a long time ago that this DNA sample did not belong to anyone in the Ramsey family.

Boulder Police Department explained that the quality of the DNA had not been of sufficient quality to have been put into the law enforcement data banks. However, in late December of 2003, the Ramseys' attorney indicated that one part of the sample, taken from blood on JonBenet's undergarments, was determined by the FBI to be of sufficient quality to be put into the DNA Index System.
What this person doesn't mention is that the underpants found on JonBenet were the WRONG SIZE and were not, obviously, hers...

But, even if they were, there is this:

On November 19, 2002, The Rocky Mountain News reported the unknown male DNA recovered from JonBenet's panties could have been left on the garment at the time the clothing was manufactured. "In exploring that theory, investigators obtained unopened 'control' samples of identical underwear manufactured in the plant in Southeast Asia, tested them and found human DNA in some of those new, unused panties."

Police now claim that the unidentified DNA found under both of JonBenet's fingernails has been contaminated and is of limited value.
 

Laura

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I DO think it is rather interesting that this JonBenet issue is coming up right now. Yes, a lot of us are interested in it because it was such a tragedy not to mention a great mystery... but, having said that... I think we ought to observe how this gets played. There are new articles about it today:

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003018974

A New Rush to Judgment in Ramsey Case?

By E&P Staff

Published: August 17, 2006 1:15 PM ET updated Friday

NEW YORK Is the press going overboard in its coverage of the latest twist in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case -- and suggesting, too early, that the suspect suddenly in custody, John Karr, is guilty?

An Associated Press dispatch late Thursday afternoon raised questions which it said "led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case."

The New York Times later on Thursday observed that "by day's end, it remained unclear whether Mr. Karr's confession was genuine or the product of a troubled, attention-seeking man who had already exhibited a fervent fascination in the sexual abuse of children in general, and in the death of JonBenet Ramsey in particular."

It all seemed so much simpler earlier in the day. The front page headline in New York's Daily News read: "SOLVED." The main arrest story in Denver's Rocky Mountain News opened: "The decade-long search for JonBenet Ramsey's killer came to a startling end in Thailand on Wednesday."

The same paper, in a headline for an editorial, declared, "Arrest is warning against rush to judgment." It meant the wide belief that one of the girl's parents may have killed her -- but the same might soon be said about the early media coverage of the Karr arrest.

The Boston Herald editorial was titled: "A tragedy nears an end." The Denver Post carried a headline: "Family's years of fear, anger come to an end." But a few hours later another headline there read: "Cracks in confession fuel skepticism."

Investigators in Thailand told the Associated Press today that Karr has made several dubious statements to them, including claims that he picked JonBenet up from school the day she was killed and that he drugged her. Actually, she was on Christmas vacation at the time, and there was no evidence of drugs in her body during the autopsy.

Much of the media has downplayed assertions by Karr's ex-wife that he was with her in Alabama at the time of the murder.

Boston University journalism professor Fred Bayles, a longtime national writer for The Associated Press and USA Today -- among other subjects, he covered the O.J. Simpson murder probe -- told E&P today: "The latest chapter in the JonBenet case offers a journalistic cautionary for both the past and the future.

"For now, there are questions about the suspect's claim he was with the girl when she died. His ex-wife has said he was in Alabama at the time of the killing and that, also, he was apparently obsessed with this case and another one in California. The media might be better served to hold off on the breathless rush to pronouncements in this case, as we've seen in the past.

"Everyone is going to look pretty foolish if there is no solid evidence, such as DNA, to back up his claims of involvement.

"It was this same rush to judgment that in the past made this case even more of a tragedy for the Ramsey family ... the focus of so-called journalists whose careers, and egos, were devoted to implicating them. I'm wondering how those people will feel if Karr is convicted."

Indeed, after many in the media had already passed judgment, the district attorney in the Ramsey slaying, Mary Lacy, said Thursday there is "much more work" to be done in the case against the suspect, and she warned the public not to "jump to conclusions."

"It's a wacky confession full of holes," said Craig Silverman, a legal analyst in Colorado who has watched the case closely for years.

Looking at the larger picture, Bayles comments that "the larger question for the media is how and why cases like these take on such a lurid life of their own? Is the public really that interested or are certain elements of the media driving the interest? Indeed, this case became a cottage industry for various aspects of the media, not just confined to cable television and the tabloids.

"Some of the reasons are obvious. If there had not been the endless tape loop of this cute little girl performing in various beauty pageants made up as a woman/child, this story probably would not have been a media obsession initially driven by the broadcast media."

Scott Robinson, legal analyst for a Denver TV station, said Thursday, "In this particular case when you have an uncorroborated confession, I think it's good to be cynical and to be skeptical. The suspect seems to be ducking questions about his connection to the Ramsey family... how the little girl came to be in the basement with him in the first place....

"This is either the break that we have all been waiting for, or the biggest hoax that's ever been perpetrated in the JonBenet Ramsey case, a case that has had its share of wacky people involved in it."
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?no=311837&rel_no=1

JonBenet Suspect Innocent?

Despite confessing to the press spectacularly in Bangkok, Thailand, the arrested suspect in the murder of six-year-old JonBenet Ramsey has raised far more questions than he has answered, questions that have already raised serious doubts about his involvement in the crime: Is the evidence limited to his own admissions? Do some of his statements, namely that he drugged JonBenet before raping her, contradict the physical evidence at the scene, which pointed to neither act? Was he even in Boulder, Colorado at the time of the crime?

Obsessed by the lurid and sensational case, John Mark Karr had allegedly researched the crime and subsequent investigation for a book and communicated his involvement to a journalism professor and to Patsy Ramsey herself, the victim's mother, by letters and e-mail. Questions remain, however, as to whether Karr, who was convicted of possessing child pornography some years ago and who is undoubtedly a pedophile, might have made a false confession.

At a press conference Thursday, Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy did little to dispel these doubts when she repeatedly stressed to reporters the presumption of innocence, the absence as yet of any formal charges and finally the "exigent" circumstances under which an arrest may be mandated before an investigation can be completed, namely when public safety or risk of flight is at stake.

"There is much more work to be done now that the suspect is in custody," Lacy said after announcing that it was still "early in the investigation," an investigation she still implied was "substantially complete."

Ramsey family lawyer Lin Wood had said earlier that there was no conclusive DNA evidence as of this time linking Karr to the case.

Meanwhile, the Associated Press is reporting that the head of Thailand's immigration police, Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, has said Karr admitted "he drugged the child" before having sex with her, although Tumrongsiskul was not himself present at the interrogation.

There has been no publicly known evidence in the decade-old crime of any drugging or of any direct sexual intercourse, and no semen was found at the scene.

Raising further questions about Karr's involvement is an alibi given by Karr's ex-wife, Lara, who told a television network in California that she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of the killing.

The 41-year-old Karr, who like many Western pedophiles had chosen to relocate to Thailand, was dressed in a loose-fitting blue polo shirt buttoned to his pencil-thin neck and khaki trousers pulled high on his midriff as he spoke softly to reporters in Bangkok.

Most disturbingly, he claimed he "loved very much" the six-year-old girl whom he allegedly raped.

"I was with JonBenet when she died," Karr said nervously. "Her death was an accident."

When asked if he was innocent of the crime, he replied, "no."

Karr had just begun to work as a second-grade teacher at an international school in Thailand this week.
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/08/17/ap2957656.html

Questions Loom in JonBenet Case
By CATHERINE TSAI and JON SARCHE , 08.17.2006

For a moment, it seemed the decade-old mystery surrounding the slaying of a child beauty queen had been solved. But authorities Thursday cautioned against rushing to judge the schoolteacher who made a stunning confession that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

For now, the only public evidence against John Mark Karr are his own words. And questions have already been raised about the details of his story, including whether he drugged the 6-year-old girl, sexually assaulted her or was even in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

Those questions led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

"We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy, quoting the little girl's father. "Do not jump to conclusions, do not rush to judgment, do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course."

Paraded before a raucous crush of reporters in Bangkok, Thailand, the sullen Karr told how he loved JonBenet, was with her when she died but that her death was an accident. And while vague on the details - "it would take several hours" - he answered flatly when asked if he was innocent: "No."

"The bottom line is that they now have a confession and until and unless they can corroborate that confession with either physical evidence or strong circumstantial evidence, that's all they have," said Scott Robinson, a Denver attorney who has followed the case from the beginning.

Added former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman: "I have to believe they have more than this kooky confession."

Karr told investigators he drugged and sexually assaulted the little girl before accidentally killing her in her Boulder home, according to a senior Thai police officer who was briefed about the interview with U.S. authorities.

Yet JonBenet's autopsy report found no evidence of drugs, saying her death was caused by strangulation after a beating that included a fractured skull. And while it describes vaginal injuries, it makes no conclusions about whether she was raped. Investigators later concluded there was no semen on JonBenet's body.

According to Thai police, Karr also said he picked JonBenet up at school and took her back to her home. But the slaying came during the holiday vacation season.

Karr's ex-wife told TV reporters she cannot defend him, then insisted he was with her in Alabama during Christmas 1996, when JonBenet's battered body was found in the basement of her home. And authorities have not said whether Karr could have written the detailed ransom note found in the Ramsey home, with its demand for $118,000 (the bonus that had recently been awarded to the girl's father, John Ramsey).

Even the Colorado professor who swapped four years' worth of e-mails with Karr and brought him to the attention of prosecutors in May refused to characterize the suspect either as killer or kook.

"I don't know that he's guilty," said Michael Tracey, who teaches journalism at the University of Colorado. "Obviously, I went to the district attorney for a reason, but let him have his day in court and let JonBenet have her day in court and let's see how it plays out."

Karr himself added to the mystery, telling The Associated Press in Bangkok that JonBenet's death was "not what it seems to be."

Asked what happened when JonBenet died, he said: "It would take several hours to describe that. It's a very involved series of events that would involve a lot of time. It's very painful for me to talk about it."

Karr's background includes an arrest in Petaluma, Calif., in April 2001 on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography, to which he pleaded not guilty. He had not been seen by authorities after violating the terms of his release, which included avoiding child pornography and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks

Any previous relationship between Karr and the Ramseys remained a mystery Thursday, though both have ties to suburban Atlanta. District Attorney Lacy refused to discuss the case during a brief news conference and suggested Karr's arrest may have been forced by concern over public safety and fears the suspect might flee.

"There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete," Lacy said.

Karr, 41, was arrested at a Bangkok apartment Wednesday, a day after he began teaching second grade at an international school, Lacy said.

Hours later, Thai authorities sat him before a crowded room of news crews. Karr stunned reporters by admitting: "I was with JonBenet when she died. Her death was an accident."

"I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet," Karr told the AP.

Thai police said Karr told them the slaying was only second-degree murder. One expert suggested his confession was geared to spare him a first-degree murder charge.

"He seemed convinced that what he said would make him guilty of a lesser crime," said Sharon L. Davies, a former prosecutor at the Ohio State University law school who has studied confessions. "It's hard to understand how that would be the case and how the physical evidence that has been at least reported about her killing would support his description of this as an accident."

Legal experts said DNA evidence will likely be key: DNA was found beneath JonBenet's fingernails and inside her underwear and authorities have never said whether it matches anyone in an FBI database. U.S. and Thai officials did not directly answer a question at a news conference about whether there was DNA evidence connecting Karr to the crime.

Karr was given a mouth-swab DNA test in Bangkok, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. The results of that test were not immediately known. Karr will be given another DNA test when he returns to the United States in the next several days, the official said.

Karr will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security told reporters in Bangkok.

Lin Wood, the Ramsey family's longtime attorney in Atlanta, said Karr went to great lengths to conceal his identity in e-mails to the university professor, going so far as to use a computer server in Canada.

Asked if authorities could tell whether Karr had firsthand knowledge of the murder or had just picked up information from news accounts, Wood said: "There is information about the murder that has never been publicly disclosed." He did not elaborate.

Karr's ex-wife, Lara Karr, was quoted by San Francisco television station KGO saying she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of JonBenet's killing and she does not believe he was involved in the homicide.

Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said there were "serious questions" about the case.

"I hope we have found the murderer of JonBenet, but I have not heard the evidence that compels that conclusion," he said.

Karr's description of the case as an accident also rang false to experts.

"It's hard to imagine a more intentional, deliberate murder than hitting a little girl in the head so hard that she had almost a foot-long fracture in her skull and then deliberately fashioning a garrotte to twist until it buries in her neck and slowly stops her breathing," said Silverman, the former Denver prosecutor. "This has always been a case of deliberate murder."
 

Mrs. Peel

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FOTCM Member
(I originally wrote this yesterday under a different thread on this topic in response to a post from Mudrabbit.)

Dunno, I'm not buying it for some reason. He says he was "with her when she died" not that he killed her. By saying he "no" when asked if he was innocent, doesn't mean he actually killed her, he could have been there with someone else, and not done anything to stop it. Also, there's this article

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060817/ap_ ... colorado_7

that says his ex-wife claimed she was with him at the time of the murder. He's claiming he drugged her and had sex with her but autopsy showed no signs of drugs.

I'm speculating he got caught up in the case, following it closely, and for some reason, (mind controled?) has confessed to a crime he didn't commit, or maybe was "convinced" he DID commit. Perhaps he even WAS there.

I'm still betting Patsy either did it or was an accomplice. This new story just doesn't feel right to me.
 

Laura

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http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/18/karr.questions/index.html

Karr's yearbook entry yields possible clue
Authorities search for links in Polly Klaas killer's prison cell

Friday, August 18, 2006;

BOULDER, Colorado (CNN) -- Authorities are examining John Mark Karr's writings, including a 1982 high-school yearbook inscription he made for a friend, for clues that might link him to the death of JonBenet Ramsey 10 years ago.

Karr on Thursday admitted to being involved in the death of the 6-year-old beauty pageant winner. However, questions have since been raised about some of his statements.

The yearbook entry ends with Karr saying in capital block letters, "Though, deep in the future, maybe I shall be the conquerer [sic] and live in multiple peace." (Watch details emerge of Karr's background -- 3:30)

The ransom note found in the Ramsey home had demanded money for JonBenet's return and had ended with the word "Victory!" and was signed "S.B.T.C." Authorities want to know whether those letters might stand for "shall be the conquerer" and whether they could have been written by the same person.

John Hargett, who once ran the documents section of the U.S. Secret Service, told CNN the letters represent "a very interesting coincidence." But he said he saw "no similarity" between the handwriting used in the ransom note and that in the yearbook.

However, the handwriting in the yearbook -- with flourish, in an artistic style -- also was not likely Karr's normal writing style at the time, Hargett added.


Murder scene secrets

Under questioning by U.S. authorities in Bangkok, Karr has provided gruesome, details about the condition of Ramsey's body -- information that had been kept secret for nearly a decade, a U.S. law enforcement source told CNN on Friday.

The details were known only to the medical examiner and investigators looking in to the slaying of Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado, on December 26, 1996, the law enforcement official said.

Despite his remarks, Karr's ex-wife and family members insist he was not involved in Ramsey's death.

Some observers have speculated that the 41-year-old may have falsely confessed -- either intentionally out of a desire to link himself to such a high-profile case or because he is delusional.

Polly Klaas connection?

After reports began circulating that Karr was in contact with Richard Allen Davis, the killer of Polly Klaas, the warden at California's San Quentin prison ordered a search of Davis' personal effects, according to a prison spokesman.

In addition, phone and visiting records were also reviewed. Davis told investigators he had no contact with Karr, and no evidence that the men had been in contact was found, said Vernon Crittendon, the spokesman.

The 12-year-old Klaas lived in Petaluma, California, when she was killed in 1993. And Karr, who lived there with his wife in 2000 and 2001, was fascinated by the girl's case as well as Ramsey's and had researched both crimes, according to Karr's now ex-wife Lara.

Petaluma also is where Karr was arrested on charges of possessing child pornography.

The warden was not acting at the request of authorities in Boulder, Crittendon added.
Karr e-mailed Ramseys

In late May, investigators from the Boulder district attorney's office approached the Ramseys with information that one or more e-mails had been intercepted expressing a desire to meet with them, according to their family attorney Lin Wood.

Authorities mentioned they were tracking an individual but did not mention his name, Wood said. Wood said he believed the e-mailer was Karr.

The Ramseys had told investigators they were willing to meet with the person if doing so would assist the investigation.

However, the meeting never took place, Wood said. Patsy Ramsey, JonBenet's mother, died of ovarian cancer in June.

Karr, however, said he had contacted Patsy Ramsey, The Associated Press reported.

"I conveyed to her many things, among them that I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet. And it's very important ... for me that everyone knows that I love [JonBenet] very much and that her death was unintentional and it was an accident," he said, according to AP.

The e-mails never made it past investigators, Wood said. He added that he did not know how investigators rerouted correspondence, and he does not know whether a third party had shown Karr's e-mails to Patsy Ramsey.

JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, has received several e-mail confessions over the years, Wood said.

The Rocky Mountain News published on its Web site Friday excerpts of what investigators say they believe are e-mails between Karr and Michael Tracey, a journalism professor at the University of Colorado in Boulder. One read: "JonBenet, my love, my life. I love you and shall forever love you. I pray that you can hear my voice calling out to you from my darkness. ..."

Awaiting transfer to U.S.

Ann Hurst, the Department of Homeland Security's attache at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, visited Karr on Friday and said she hopes he will be transferred to Colorado by the end of the week.

A U.S. warrant called for his arrest on suspicion of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault.
 
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