Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#2
Laura said:
Now, I've been the target of hate speech, slander, libel and defamation for years and nobody in law enforcement ever gave me a minute's help; so I understand what it is and how it feels. But THIS is ridiculous!


https://youtu.be/hrKvLO523oM


https://youtu.be/VSMJKKoza8A

Just want to say, I've been aware of Jordan Peterson's work for a while now and have learned a lot from his YouTube lectures. He's been fighting this free speech battle for the last couple of months and similar to what's happened with Trump's, the radical left social justice warriors have the media on their side, but he seems to have the majority of normal rational people on his.

As far as I'm aware, the debate they're having at the University of Toronto is being live streamed tomorrow.

Peterson's most recent work has been interesting in that he's using personality traits to analyse two new concepts he calls PC liberalism and PC authoritarianism - that is LEFT-wing authoritarianism.

From his lectures, I actually consider him a ponerologist and have corresponded with a family member of his which lead to my sending him a paperback copy of ponerology, which he received on Nov 1st.

I haven't posted much about his work on the forum though as I got quite identified with it all and can't see exactly clearly.
 

Richs

Dagobah Resident
#3
It is probably understandable T.C. that you have become somewhat identified with Jordan as he espouses much of what we do and think here.

It appears he intuitively understands that one must not sin against one's own soul as that just leads to one's disintegration. He understands from personal introspection (which is essentially the Work as we do here) that, indeed, he would be capable of doing things which the guards at German prison camps had done under similar circumstances.

This awareness comes from understanding that we all have a duality within us and we have to "choose" whether the STS or the STO will dominate. He is also perfectly aware that without sufficient knowledge and with parsing this load of information by 'thinking with a hammer' it is mostly impossible for most people to see things as they are and act accordingly.

It is so striking that the conclusions he comes to regarding the fall of the people in Russia and Germany were so similar to what is happening today. The 'trial run' so to speak. Just as what is currently occurring in the US, with the controllers using all sorts of tactics of manipulation to maintain their control over the populace.

What is interesting is that in spite of the efforts to control and influence people the majority of people in Canada and in the US reject these things and essentially see them for what they are. They can not necessarily articulate exactly what it is they reject and what it is they hold dear and correct, but there is, in spite of people basically net being very smart as he says, the fact that many people can see through and reject the lies.

I think he would really enjoy being a member here.

I am gratified that he still has the guts to speak what he knows is true even though there can be personal consequences for doing this.
 

Ruth

The Living Force
#4
My God! What he's protesting is fascism under the guise of 'political correctness' which is being legislated as thought crime. Saying the wrong thing, being judged on the outcome, not the intent, which may have been simply benign or a mistake. And the university taking 'advice' from a black rights supremacist and a fraudster! :O

"Equality of outcome". That's all that matters to these people. It truly is the ponorisation process where you see the introduction of mediocrity. Mr Peterson said "they all end up in the rubble - equally dead".

Good for him for speaking up about it. It's shocking when exposed. I did wonder when Lobaczewski said that this introduction first happened in universities. I thought to myself, why not everywhere, at the same time? It's kind of ironic that they're both psychologists and both observing it happen while at universities.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#5
Ruth said:
My God! What he's protesting is fascism under the guise of 'political correctness' which is being legislated as thought crime. Saying the wrong thing, being judged on the outcome, not the intent, which may have been simply benign or a mistake. And the university taking 'advice' from a black rights supremacist and a fraudster! :O

"Equality of outcome". That's all that matters to these people. It truly is the ponorisation process where you see the introduction of mediocrity. Mr Peterson said "they all end up in the rubble - equally dead".

Good for him for speaking up about it. It's shocking when exposed. I did wonder when Lobaczewski said that this introduction first happened in universities. I thought to myself, why not everywhere, at the same time? It's kind of ironic that they're both psychologists and both observing it happen while at universities.
Yup. And I think that the main ponerization processes begin among "intellectuals" at universities because those are the guides and teachers of the young. Universities train teachers of even younger children, and thus it becomes easy to poison an entire society in a single generation if you have the power to determine what is "correct". Lobaczewski also talked about the corruption and abuse of psychiatry/psychology as a key part in the process.

What is really horrifying is that this is being done at ALL universities and it really is Fascism in the guise of "political correctness" or "Liberal and Progressive Values."
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
#6
Laura said:
Ruth said:
My God! What he's protesting is fascism under the guise of 'political correctness' which is being legislated as thought crime. Saying the wrong thing, being judged on the outcome, not the intent, which may have been simply benign or a mistake. And the university taking 'advice' from a black rights supremacist and a fraudster! :O

"Equality of outcome". That's all that matters to these people. It truly is the ponorisation process where you see the introduction of mediocrity. Mr Peterson said "they all end up in the rubble - equally dead".

Good for him for speaking up about it. It's shocking when exposed. I did wonder when Lobaczewski said that this introduction first happened in universities. I thought to myself, why not everywhere, at the same time? It's kind of ironic that they're both psychologists and both observing it happen while at universities.
Yup. And I think that the main ponerization processes begin among "intellectuals" at universities because those are the guides and teachers of the young. Universities train teachers of even younger children, and thus it becomes easy to poison an entire society in a single generation if you have the power to determine what is "correct". Lobaczewski also talked about the corruption and abuse of psychiatry/psychology as a key part in the process.

What is really horrifying is that this is being done at ALL universities and it really is Fascism in the guise of "political correctness" or "Liberal and Progressive Values."
Very shocking. If I recall correctly from one of the videos above, Peterson said that children are being taught not to use she/he/him/her but to use "comrades" instead.

I came across this video, and I thought he had some really good things to say in a debate with a transgender Toronto professor (A.W.Peet):


https://youtu.be/SiijS_9hPkM

Peet (who is in favor of the mandatory use of disturbing gender pronouns) says: "I encourage people struggling with this to be kind as their first impulse." Peterson's reply was on point: "Kindness is the excuse that social justice warriors use when they want to exercise control over what other people think and say."

Peterson also said that when he sees a stranger he calls them by the pronoun that seems to be in accordance with their presented appearance. Peet suggested to Peterson to put reminders of which pronoun which person prefers in his phone, and that when he sees that person he can look it up. How ridiculous! (Examples of Gender Pronouns can be seen at 2:27 of the video.)

Notice how at the end CBC 'ran out of time' just as Peterson mentioned an assault that took place at the free speech rally held a few days after he released his video and that CBC conveniently ommitted that part in the video clips they showed at the beginning.

Then there are the social justice warrior students protesting against him. I watched a video of such a protest, and interestingly it seems that none of the protesters actually watched any of Peterson's videos.

I'm glad at least that he does have a lot of supporters.
 

Possibility of Being

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#7
I'm heartbroken and so angry that I have no words for that surrealistic insanity this world becomes. The whole 'political correctness'/ gender etc. thing takes the notion of 'world cannot get any crazier' to another level - again.

T.C. said:
I haven't posted much about his work on the forum though as I got quite identified with it all and can't see exactly clearly.
I know what you mean, T.C.
Jordan Peterson is one of the sparse set of real Human Beings. I love his lectures and his take on personal responsibility and all what he teaches plus the very fact that he has been teaching his students for years how to think, how to look at the reality, how to know what truth is and how important it is for theirs integrity and their souls to stand for it.

Richard S said:
I think he would really enjoy being a member here.
Not so sure. I remember some of politics related examples he included in his lectures made cringe a bit. But other than that, yeah, I think we're very close on the majority of things that he, and us, think is what really matters.

Looks like the live streaming should start very soon. Gonna watch it.

Added:
From his twitter:
Jordan B Peterson Retweeted
Jordan B Peterson ‏@jordanbpeterson 11h11 hours ago

Here is the URL for tomorrow's U of T debate:
http://mediacast.ic.utoronto.ca/20161119-FAS/index.htm …
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#8
That was very interesting and inspiring to watch; thanks for sharing. Maybe someone to interview on the radio show?

I was pleased that he had a few remarks to make against Jacques Derrida, one of those popular postmodern writers that are so often quoted in universities, and the likes of which I was trying to argue against when writing my thesis. The reason is that they seem to think that 'there is no truth', or rather, 'the truth doesn't matter, only how you construct it'. Similarly, some may say 'it doesn't matter if I'm really a he or a she, what matters is that you call me a comrade or else I'll be offended!'

I think one virtue of the interview is that it comes to show how non-sensical and outdated the left/right categories and 'isms' have become. And why? Because our ponerized leaders have made every effort to talk like the left but act like the right (no - worse than the right) for so long. To export democracy with bombs and abuse of Orwellian double-speak. So now we have come to the absurd situation in which the real right looks like left in comparison to the 'left'. :rolleyes: People should really make an effort to ignore appearences and words from politicians and try to understand the essence of the matter by paying attention to what they do. Likewise, how minorities are treated is way more important than what they are called.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#10
The whole topic becomes even more incredible in consideration of the following:

Health survey gives government its first large-scale data on gay, bisexual population
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/health-survey-gives-government-its-first-large-scale-data-on-gay-bisexual-population/2014/07/14/2db9f4b0-092f-11e4-bbf1-cc51275e7f8f_story.html

By Sandhya Somashekhar July 15, 2014

Less than 3 percent of the U.S. population identify themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Tuesday in the first large-scale government survey measuring Americans’ sexual orientation.

The National Health Interview Survey, which is the government’s premier tool for annually assessing Americans’ health and behaviors, found that 1.6 percent of adults self-identify as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent consider themselves bisexual.

The overwhelming majority of adults, 96.6 percent, labeled themselves as straight in the 2013 survey. An additional 1.1 percent declined to answer, responded “I don’t know the answer” or said they were “something else.”

The figures offered a slightly smaller assessment of the size of the gay, lesbian and bisexual population than other surveys, which have pegged the overall proportion at closer to 3.5 or 4 percent. In particular, the estimate for bisexuals was lower than in some other surveys.

The inclusion of the sexual-orientation question in an influential survey used to guide government funding and research decisions was viewed as a major victory for the gay community, which has struggled with a dearth of data about its special health needs. {Why viewed as a victory? It's an extremely small percentage.}

“This is a major step forward in trying to remedy some of these gaps in our understanding of the role sexual orientation and gender identity play in people’s health and in their lives,” said Gary J. Gates, a demographer at the Williams Institute, a research center at the University of California at Los Angeles that studies the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) population.

...

The information released by the CDC on Tuesday offers an initial analysis through the lens of sexual orientation on measures critical to public health, such as smoking, drinking and health insurance status.

It did not find a broad pattern suggesting that one group was less healthy overall than any other group, said Brian W. Ward, the researcher for the report. Echoing other studies, it found that, compared with straight people, gays were more likely to smoke and to have consumed five or more drinks in one day at least once in the past year. Straight women were more likely to consider themselves in excellent or very good health than women who identified as lesbian.

But gays were more likely to have received a flu shot than straight people, and gay men were less likely to be overweight than straight men. {Suggests they are more programmable or susceptible to propaganda?}

In some cases, the more notable disparities were experienced by bisexuals. People who identify as being attracted to both sexes are more likely to have experienced psychological distress in the past 30 days than straight people, the survey showed.

“We just don’t know much about bisexuality right now, and we’re finally starting to do some research in that area,” said Judy Bradford, director of the Center for Population Research in LGBT Health at the Fenway Institute in Boston. The study may prompt more scrutiny of this understudied population, she said.

In their report, CDC researchers acknowledge that their estimate of the size of the bisexual population differs from those in other studies. A national estimate from the 2008 General Social Survey — which is funded by the National Science Foundation, a federal agency dedicated to the advancement of nonmedical science — estimated that 1.1 percent of the population identified as bisexual. Other surveys suggest the number of bisexuals roughly matches the number of gays.

“There’s a variety of factors that could come into play, and we don’t have an answer right now,” Ward said. “It’s something we are looking at.”
....
 

Atreides

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
#11
One point in this debate that seems difficult for many of the Leftists to understand is that there is a difference between proscribed speech and prescribed speech. Telling someone they can't use a racial slur is not the same as saying they must use a racial slur. This is not about removing a word from acceptable speech, but inserting many words and then mandating their use.

It is, at its essence, an attempt to control reality. To manufacture reality - this is merely a test of newspeak. Getting this passed and accepted opens the door for the mandating of other kinds of ideas and words.

So people should pause to think about that, because the frequent argument against those against the gender pronoun debate keep saying: "Well if you think that, you must think it's okay to call students racial slurs." Of course this shows the morbid and diseased nature of their minds, but it's a point that can subtlety slip by in the speed and "Gish Gunning" of the left. PROscribing speech and PREscribing speech are not the same thing at all, there is no comparison beyond inherent antithesis.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
#12
Laura said:
The whole topic becomes even more incredible in consideration of the following:
Yeah, it really does. Peterson also said something along those lines during the debate.

Another interesting thing he said is that there are Q+ people (or "otherkins") from the LGBTQ group who claim to have a non-human identity... there are tons of gender pronouns that are made up for them, including... "wormself". Peterson warned that they may start demanding their own pronoun next.

He rightly said, paraphrasing here, that he is not going to support neologisms of radical authoritarians. During the debate he also mentioned that the government will probably go after his clinical license. :/

Several tweets about the debate are posted here: https://twitter.com/VarsityNewsUofT
 

neema

Jedi Master
#13
Wow great video, thanks for sharing.

Political correctness has always made me sick in my stomach.

I love how Jordan describes how you can feel yourself coming apart when you are telling lies and feel whole when telling the truth. Very good description of disintegration IMO.

I also second having him on an interview for a behind the headlines show.
 

NormaRegula

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#14
Atreides said:
One point in this debate that seems difficult for many of the Leftists to understand is that there is a difference between proscribed speech and prescribed speech. Telling someone they can't use a racial slur is not the same as saying they must use a racial slur. This is not about removing a word from acceptable speech, but inserting many words and then mandating their use.

It is, at its essence, an attempt to control reality. To manufacture reality - this is merely a test of newspeak. Getting this passed and accepted opens the door for the mandating of other kinds of ideas and words.

So people should pause to think about that, because the frequent argument against those against the gender pronoun debate keep saying: "Well if you think that, you must think it's okay to call students racial slurs." Of course this shows the morbid and diseased nature of their minds, but it's a point that can subtlety slip by in the speed and "Gish Gunning" of the left. PROscribing speech and PREscribing speech are not the same thing at all, there is no comparison beyond inherent antithesis.
It sure is an attempt to control reality. Gads. The left truly is more about control than freedom to choose. I'm beginning to see more perception from many on the right - who think the whole PC wagon train is foolish, if not insane.

I got so wrapped up in these videos that I forgot about my bacon - didn't hear the alarm I set - and burned my breakfast in the oven. :-[ Haven't done that in years. Will be sending these videos links to a few persons who might be receptive.
 

Josi

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
#15
Eye opening! :scared: I seriously had no idea that the PC and Gender pronouns had gotten to such an insane level. After seeing what is going on with the anti-Trump snowflakes protest and this - it is jaw dropping.
 
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