Ken Adachi / Educate-yourself.org

ShamanSam

Padawan Learner
Marie said:
I wanted to share this site with you, it's called Educate-Yourself, and what I've seen seems very credible. It reached conclusions similar to the Cassiopaeans on many points, but they take a slightly different angle. The "Insight on aliens" seems basically the same as the C's message, but they call reptoids "demons". Anyway, there's a particular page I wanted to show: it's a threat letter from some COINTELPRO pawn in which he ends up saying a lot more than he really meant to. I found it, well... informative and creepy.

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/onyourwaytohell30oct02.shtml
Yes as you say they seem very credible. But being credible and seeming credible are not the same.
As you say "they take a slightly different angle" this, may also be known as twisting the truth.

Let's look more closely at educate-yourself.org.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990826160258/http://www.educate-yourself.org/index.html
According to web archive their first web page went up in 1999.
Stating"dedicated to the proliferation of accurate knowledge"
Accurate knowledge should mean checking facts, having verifiable evidence to back up those facts.

By March 2000 the site was stating future possibilities.
"late Spring or early Summer of 2003. The North and South Poles will shift from their *current location."

In may 2000 he mentions his "mentor and partner in crime, Merlin Wolf, and another man. "
Hmmm he refers to himself as a criminal?
Freudian slip, honesty or just referring to himself and his mentors in a derogatory manner.

Who is this other man? Is he another mentor, he does not want to reveal?

Who is Merlin Wolf? According to educate-yourself.org, he is a "health researcher/inventor, Merlin Wolf"
Wolf advises to use honey while making colloidal silver.
He does not show any research as to the effects just "Why this happens, I am not sure-but it works!"
Just believe him because he say so.
http://www.zetatalk.com/health/theal20g.htm

By June 2000 Ken begins to promote Ted Gunderson
http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb06?_GUNDERSON_TED_L

So who is Ted?
Ted L. Gunderson worked in his early years of the FBI as a Cointelpro agent.

"The FBI COINTELPRO program was initiated in 1956.

Its purpose, as described later by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, was
"to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize activities" of those individuals and organizations whose ideas or goals he opposed. Tactics
included: falsely labeling individuals as informants; infiltrating groups
with persons instructed to disrupt the group; sending anonymous or forged
letters designed to promote strife between groups; initiating politically
motivated IRS investigations; carrying out burglaries of offices and
unlawful wiretaps; and disseminating to other government agencies and to
the media unlawfully obtained derogatory information on individuals and
groups."
http://www.stewwebb.com/Dave%20Hinkson%20Gunderson%20murder%20for%20hire%20scheme.html

If this was Ted's stated agenda early in his career.Why should we believe that all of a sudden he changed his priorities.
Because he says so? I would seriously investigate this Ted's ulterior motives, before promoting him as one of the good guys.
A little common sense is in order.

Ken goes on to state"The recent accusation of radio talk show host Art Bell leveled at Ted Gunderson was intended to discredit and undermine Gunderson's credibility"

But...
"Nationally known radio talk show host
Art Bell filed suit against CIA Ted Gunderson,
Bell claimed Gunderson called him a child molester
on a Radio talk show, Art Bell won the lawsuit."

http://la.indymedia.org/mail.php?id=96255

Are we to believe Ken or The court.
Ted has lost many other court cases and continues to pay restitution charges on some.

Back to educate-yourself .org, what else does Ken promote.
In 2002 Ken begins to promote Don and Carol Croft.
http://web.archive.org/web/20020523052058/http://www.educate-yourself.org/
Ken says"I hereby nominate Don Croft as the front runner"
http://web.archive.org/web/20021017100956/educate-yourself.org/dc/
he goes on to say
"I don't think you can find two braver souls on the face of the planet than the Crofts."
Ken goes on to compare Don Croft to John Wayne; who is known for, promoting the slaughter of American Indians on the big screen.
Ken lets us know that Carol is talking to aliens, "Even the aliens have told Carol: "He's Crazy!"
http://web.archive.org/web/20021023054631/educate-yourself.org/dc/adcepisodeindex.shtml



"Don is convinced through psychic sources (especially Carol) and info from friendly aliens that...
ELF mind control towers WILL NOT FUNCTION without the presence of negative DOR energy.
....That is the reason I am posting these stories and encouraging you... "

(So that's why Ken Adachi is promoting this, because Don is convinced)

Orgone generators are said to magically transform negative energy into positive energy.
Don't know how, don't know why, just believe!

I will place Don Crofts writings in " "and my comments ( )

"It feels very real to me"

(Hypnotized people say the same thing.)



"It’s apparent that good guys conspire just as much as parasites do, except the good guys love and trust each other and the bad guys wait for opportunities, such as, a sign of awakened compassion, to tear each others’ throats out."

( Good guys lie and trust each other.)



"Carol helped me develop the Terminator by using her special abilities"

(Terminators were made without any research or facts.)



"The vortex, the energy of which was being ‘stolen’ by the grays, straightened out to its natural form within a few hours & the aliens departed after letting both of us know that they were very perturbed."

(Could they be tricking you?)



"Some of the Wingmakers are Atlantean elders—it’s actually impossible for us right now to determine who, precisely, they all are."

( So they could be evil; you don't know.)



"Most psychic people realize that only beneficial races and entities are able to be on or in Mt. Shasta."

( Do you know most psychic people? Is this a lie or based on factual research? Who has asked most psychic people about Mt. Shasta? How many people are most psychic people? Is that over 50% of all psychics?)



"This partly lead to our knowing that a holy handgrenade in ones living quarters will guarantee that the unbalanced energy will be transformed and returned to the source as good, balanced orgone, which is rejuvenating, stabilizing and even reduces fear and anger."

( What kind of guarantee is this? Do I get my parts refunded if it is not true? How do you know? Many people knew the world was flat for a long time; until it was proven false.)



"This is in contrast to what happens when an orgone accumulator encounters an unbalanced orgone field: it absorbs the bad orgone and becomes toxic."

( Do you have any factual scientific evidence to back up this claim?)



"The ET’s were furious & some of them began following us."

( Do you have any proof you are not being tricked? Do you have any proof you are not being controlled?)



"Carol and I are getting that a full fledged world war has been averted, though the City of London will perhaps be destroyed by a lunchbox nuke—one of the many they’ve ‘lost track’ of.
This would instantaneously terminate the power of the international banks and their stranglehold on all of the governments of the world (including ours). It would end the exploitation of the world’s resources as well as stop the organized genocide of Africa and related ‘eugenics’ programs. The power vacuum left by the disappearance of the UN, the delegates of which are all appointed by the same individuals that operate the IMF, can and will be filled by an elected world parliament."

( All parasitic psycopaths in the world, would be eliminated with a nuke in London? )



"James Hughes had told me that 15 Hz will be Earth’s resonant frequency then. We made our Terminators to operate at that frequency on a hunch and it has far exceeded our expectations."

( A hunch. No research? No scientific facts? Here's some research and facts.)

>We are beginning to understand that brain rhythms, their synchronization and de-synchronization, form an important and possibly fundamental part of the orchestration of perception, motor action and conscious experience observe that low frequency functional stimulation of STN at 15 Hz, i.e. within the 15–30 Hz range of STN oscillations detected ... worsens akinesia.

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/125/6/1175

akinesia = Loss of normal motor function, resulting in impaired muscle movement.

(So these terminators are harmful; according to research.)



"The Montauk Boys Program was based on Reich’s findings and the researchers forced the boys to engage in sodomy in order to get psychic control over them. Carol told me that the reason I was particularly uncomfortable at Montauk is because I had been one of the early recruits as a child. "

(Is he still being controlled? Do we have any proof he is not?)



"I hadn’t mentioned that we had put HHg’s in two other vortices in Florida—one just off the coast south of Palm Beach, the other one in Miami Beach, where the Stonehenge-type arrangement was recently unearthed. Carol got telepathically that the B Sirians needed these vortices to create the conditions for their materialization here."

(Does this mean that materialization requires humans to lose motor function?)



"The work we are doing is beyond most of the pioneering orgone work that Dr.Reich had done because ours was based on orgone generation, not orgone accumulation, therefore it’s apparently incorruptible. The predatory regime that usurped Dr. Reich’s good work for their own destructive purposes can’t even understand the basic Holy Handgrenade."

( You did no scientific research, so neither do you.)



"Dr. Reich was imprisoned and murdered shortly after his work with the Cloudbuster got into full swing. That was when the parasitic ET’s had just established a partnership with the leading governments of Earth, so disabling their ships was probably rocking the boat pretty severely. "

(Notice that orgone generators never do that ! ie: Just ET's making Carol think they are mad and furious.)



"Zappers are far more effective in curing illnesses than any orgone devices alone are (the Terminator has a significant orgone-generating component) and so are a much greater threat to the drug/medical cartel than Dr. Reich’s inventions were"

( Any scientific proof to back up this claim?)



"I saw a UFO which flew across our field of vision in front of the car. It disappeared but not before Carol also saw it. She told me it was the reptilians and they wanted to let us know that they’ll be our friends and allies from now on."

( Enemies do not change there nature because they say so. You've fallen for the oldest trick in the book.)



"Up until that night in Salem, we considered them parasites, but it suddenly occurred to me that if they are native to earth, as we are, we should try to come to terms with them. Besides, they had been with us long enough for me to feel that we had a relationship of sorts with them. They hadn’t harmed or provoked us. The B Sirians, on the other hand, had been harassing us and marking our bodies with their implants."

( Many parasites live on earth, that does not make them less harmful, or change the relationship)



"I verbally addressed them (they’re telepathic but I wanted to make my intention clear) and promised that I will never aim the Chembuster at them. One of the reasons I had built it was to be able to shoot down UFO’s, which I had considered anti-human. The spiritually advanced races don’t use physical ships to come here, I’d come to believe. So the first thing I did when I initially set up our Chembuster was to ask Carol where the B Sirian ship was that was monitoring us and pointed the Chembuster at it. Carol sensed extreme alarm from the aliens and said that the ship instantaneously shot into space, out of range though still in line with where I was aiming."

( If I am walking away from a puppy. The puppy barks at me and startles me. That does not mean I am running away from him or scared of him.)



"We later came to understand that all antigravity craft of the parasitic aliens and humans are powered by nuclear fusion. These reactors are all vulnerable to the Chembuster because they require a deadly orgone field to sustain their nuclear reaction. The B Sirian craft still won’t come close, though I made the same peace offer to them. "

( Now you know about all antigravity craft of humans and aliens?)



"As soon as I made the gesture to the reptilians, Carol told me that they were grateful for the promise and were after all just following us because they were curious to know what we were up to."

( Do you have any proof that you are not being tricked and controlled by them?)



"On the way to Portland we were late, so I asked the reptilians to run interference for us by causing the traffic cops to look the other way or drop their donuts when we were speeding. I drove by a couple of Maine highway patrol cars at over 80 mph right after that and Carol said they didn’t see us. I felt a very strong sense of gratitude to our new friends. This was the first of many such episodes. It reminds me of the closing scene of Casablanca where Rick and Louis walk off arm and arm as new friends and allies... "

( Retilians encourage you to be dangerous to yourself and others.)



"The original Cloudbusters had to be connected to a body of water. Moving water was preferable. If one touched the pipes while they were drawing in the bad energy it caused intense pain and even unconsciousness. I had read about one case in which the person who touched a cloudbuster in operation was nearly killed and had to recuperate in a hospital. A spark was seen to go from the pipes to the person. Electricity and orgone are always present together in varying proportions. I had suspected that the orgone generator would take away the harmful aspects of the Clouduster and make it more portable. The results have far, far surpassed my expectations."

( You stated what your expectation was "One of the reasons I had built it was to be able to shoot down UFO’s" You never shot down a UFO as Dr Reich did. Yet you claim that your invention is better than Dr Reich. It seems your expectation has been lowered to below; what an orgone generator can do.)



I’m content to work on a ‘need to know’ basis, since the explanations wouldn’t mean very much to me in my present state of awareness.

( Yes; sadly, your present state of awareness cannot comprehend explanations. When anybody tells someone, it is on a need to know basis; it is because they do not want the person to know the whole truth. Knowing the truth might change the person's actions.)




Yes Marie it is creepy. How a person's blind faith, can lead them down the wrong path. That's why checking facts, doing research, can provide knowledge, that can protect you.
Religions and goverments have been using the blind faith and "need to know" trick for ages; with devastating effects on the human population.

(This article has been reposted by myself. It got lost or deleted in some kind of electronic shuffle. )
 
M

Marie

Guest
Informative and Creepy

Yes I have taken note of your observations, Sam, and you did not post my original reply. I deleted my post (therefore the whole topic), as I figured if the site turned out to also be COINTELPRO, it wouldn't help anyone to have the address, and the discussion would pretty much go round without providing much knowledge.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Informative and Creepy

I've read Educate-Yourself, and did not get a good vibe from the site. Years ago I met people like this who were claiming vampire aliens and the secret government was hunting them. I also briefly met Preston Nichols the author of the Montauk books at a psychic fair in Ohio. The people I met did not seem to be COINTELPRO, at least not in any deliberate sense.

They, including Nichols, seemed hunted and acted the part too well to be pretending. What they reminded me of were accounts of people possessed or harassed by malevolent spirits or demons. On the other hand, I also met people who were obviously COINTELPRO, and some of these were close to JJ Hurtak and Drunvalo Melchizedek.

During my own researches in orgone technology, I came to the conclusion that orgone is a highly complex electrostatic field, and the accumulators are for the most part multilayered capacitors, with alternating conductor/insulator layers. They focus the existent planetary field, and structure the low intensity charges in a fashion whose complexity rivals that of the bioelectric field in living organisms.

This field is immeasurable by crude instruments because it is of equal or lower intensity to the ambient field. What makes it effective is the complexity of the pattern of its polarized charges. The pattern can be life promoting or life degrading in the same manner as antioxidants enhance health and free radicals undermine it.

The field charge can also be directed at clouds and influence the polarization dynamics of water droplets thus dispersing them. It is ludicrous to claim that such devices, which have no outside power source other than the terrestrial capacitor, can knock out UFO's unless you also admit that your thoughts can knock those manifestations out as well. That sounds more like an exorcism than any kind of technological mode to me.

One individual who proved to be COINTELPRO was a Russian scientist working on psychically-based interrogation techniques in a joint CIA/KGB venture (as he admitted), before the collapse of the Berlin wall. He told me that research had to stop because they could not isolate the subject to be interrogated from everyone else doing the interrogating. They could not, in other words, prevent psychic backlash from their own attacks.

This person was careful about what he was saying, but he needed "recruits" and new ideas so he revealed a few things and implied others. He said certain foundations were keeping track of the "new age" movement in search for "new talent" (which made me suspicious). He told us he was connected particularly to the Ford Foundation that wanted to "work with people invovled in subtle energy technology". This was back in 1994.

Anyway, my partner and I were a bit suspicious, but we were trying to get in contact with this person for a few years and wanted to see for ourselves how far his subtle energy work had gotten. He was basically generating an orgone field by runnign computer-generated waveforms through gas-discharge tubes to pulse their electrostatic fields into structured holograms (interfacing the wave-form generated fields of two or more tubes).

Given the nature of his devices, and that they were not devices of harmony, along with all he implied I decided to test him. I understood he had reached a brick wall. In fact, some enounters with people involved in R&D directions to make entertainment media more "real" also revealed this admission of what they called a WALL, which is a human defense at being invaded basically. It was this "wall" that halted the push to make virtual reality devices household items.

Anyway, I gave the Russian scientist the impression that I was an expert in magic numbers. What he wanted was to manipulate others (under the guise of healing them) using his devices without being affected himself. I examined the device and it was not harmonized because his emphasis on being immune from it caused him to design it in such a way as to create an "out of body" type or dissociative influence.

He kept the frequencies low because he did not want to feel anything, only measure it. So I convinced him to raise the frequencies little by little, from 500 Hz up to 7777 Hz. The field was dependent on the shape of the tube, the type of gas used (color of the discharge) and how many tubes were used (he was afraid to go beyond two because he said it opened a "gate"). What it did was knock his energy body into a dreamtime experience.

In any case, we had two tubes with orange light at 7777 Hz, and all of the sudden you could see a whirlpool of energy form in the room and get larger and larger. To me this was fun. as it was alright if you just rode it out. The vision formed initially in the minds eye, but with eyes open it became one with the visual field and could be felt through the body, until I could see the faces of the others (except my partner) swirling around the pool in terror, while their physical faces had blank looks on them.

After about a minute of this, our host shut the machine down and looked at me as if I had betrayed him (which I had in a sense, because it was my intent to push the envelope and shake the coins of deception out of his pockets). I described my experience to my partner and he affirmed that his was the same. The others (the scientist, his wife and another friend) refused to discuss their own experiences.

We went to dinner in a strange silence and later the three of us slept at the home of the scientist and his wife. That night was filled with dreams of the scientist in some underground facility with these men in black. He was all in a fuss, telling them "the disruption" was not his fault but mine, and that we (my partner and I) were "unsuitable" candidates. I woke up chuckling to myself, partly thinking the dream was a result of my suspicions of the guy.

I was a bit surprized when he asked us to leave and started admonishing me claiming I had forced him to have bad experiences. Then he proceeded to describe his own dream, which was the same as my own (from his perspective). We left and have been working on modifying the principle ever since. I never saw the guy again.

The Educate-Yourself site has a combination tone of COINTELPRO and those other hunted people I met. It's just a feeling I get whenever around a certain direction, and it is not pleasant. It probably is for the best the post here was deleted, but it also wouldn't hurt for people to check out that direction for themselves, as long as they have an idea what they are approaching.
 

ShamanSam

Padawan Learner
Informative and Creepy

I received this email today.

"Marie from Signs of the Times Forum has sent you a message. You can reply to Marie by replying to this e-mail.
The message reads as follows:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to know, Shamansam, is there a gender component to the fact of your refusal to acknowledge my wishes regarding a post that I wrote? After I made it very clear - twice - that I wished to have this post deleted as it was obviously a mistake, I am confused as to why you would so override my opinion altogether. I am not sure what you are trying to do - wether you intend to "blacken" me or "punish" me for having dared to write feminist posts, or other, but I would like to know - would you have respected my wishes if I had written under a male name?

Marie
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Signs of the Times Forum Mailer "
I would like to reply to this email here.

I would like to know, Shamansam, is there a gender component to the fact of your refusal to acknowledge my wishes regarding a post that I wrote?
No. There was never any gender component in my reply to your first post, "Informative and Creepy".
The research and fact checking was done, about the web site Educate-Yourself.org
Not about you, or myself.
I thought you wished to have your post replied to.
I acknowledged that wish by replying.

After I made it very clear - twice - that I wished to have this post deleted as it was obviously a mistake, I am confused as to why you would so override my opinion altogether.
Now, apparently you have more wishes. Your second wish, was to have your first post with it's replies deleted. You deleted it, you fufilled your second wish.
My understanding of your, opinion, can only be gathered from your email and reply to my repost. It is not my intention, to confuse you.

Marie's reply, to my reposting her original "Informative and Creepy" post.

"Yes I have taken note of your observations, Sam, and you did not post my original reply. I deleted my post (therefore the whole topic), as I figured if the site turned out to also be COINTELPRO, it wouldn't help anyone to have the address, and the discussion would pretty much go round without providing much knowledge."
I did not post your original reply because you deleted it. I do not have it.
I am a bit confused myself.
How would, not knowing the address of a COINTELPRO site, help people?
Why do you state, making this post was a mistake?
You obviously do not want this discussion to go round, and assume it will not provide much knowledge.
If a discussion goes around with input from many different perspectives and opinions, does this not provide knowledge?

Now for your third wish. From what I understand, to "override your opinion" is to,
not have an opinion, or to have an opinion; that is not the same as yours.
o·pin·ion
1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion

The first opinion you had, was, posting "Informative and Creepy" would be a good idea.
You changed that opinion, deleted the post and it's replies.
I agree with your first opinion, as I understand it. I will not "override this opinion"; as you have done.

Three wishes granted !

Now to the rest of your email.

I am not sure what you are trying to do - wether you intend to "blacken" me or "punish" me for having dared to write feminist posts, or other, but I would like to know - would you have respected my wishes if I had written under a male name?
What I am trying to do is reveal truth.
Revealing truth was my intention, not to colour you or criticize you.
I did not know your post was a dare or feminist.
My reply would have been the same, if your name was female, male or non-gender.
Would you have labelled me an anti-feminist, if my name was female or non-gender?
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Informative and Creepy

Marie said:
Yes I have taken note of your observations, Sam, and you did not post my original reply. I deleted my post (therefore the whole topic), as I figured if the site turned out to also be COINTELPRO, it wouldn't help anyone to have the address, and the discussion would pretty much go round without providing much knowledge.
Somehow what you say here does not compute. You deleted your post and ALL OTHER REPLIES which tended to show the site as disinfo which amounted to depriving other readers of that valuable information. I believe that a warning appears when you delete the first post in a topic that tells you that all the replies will also be deleted if you confirm the delete.

The question is: why did you want to delete the discussion of why this site might very well be disinfo and refer to it disparagingly as a discussion that would "pretty much go round without providing much knowledge" which is, in fact, just the opposite of the truth? Such a discussion is extremely valuable to others who might be led astray by such a site. Why did you want to "protect" a disinfo site?

Then, when Shamansam reposted the info, you tried to turn it into a gender issue which it is not. That smacks of blatant manipulation.

One of the conclusions that can be drawn from this behavior and from your words is that you are an agent of disinfo on this forum. Either that, or simply an egoistic "useful idiot" for those who really are cointelpro. If that is the case, you are certainly not the first one.

It is quite common for people who start out with good intentions, who are good hearted, but basically insecure, to be co-opted by real agents who then build up their egos with how great they are and what a good job they are doing, all the while pushing them in the wrong direction - the direction the agent wants them to go. They then become active pathogens, unbeknownst even to themselves, all the while thinking they are doing a "good work." You might gain some valuable insight from reading the threads on psychopathy and organic portals.
 
M

Marie

Guest
Informative and Creepy

I had never any COINTELPRO intentions - if you don't believe me, ask the Cs. Yes, I would have preferred not to have my name associated with this site anymore, but no one can deny it is disrespectful to use somebody's name against their wishes. I deleted the whole thread because it seemed pretty obvious, as EVERYBODY pointed out, that no one had anything to learn from me. Now if I have somehow been judged "unworthy" I would like for you to have the grace (or honesty) to kick me out altogether. And Sam, you could have simply answered me without dragging me in the mud. Laura, what does not compute? How could good information come from a discussion of material that is obviously twisted or manipulated? As for the gender bias, it seemed like the only possible explanation. Why else would anybody use your name against your wishes, in association with information that you now know to be worse than dead-wrong?
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Informative and Creepy

Hi Marie,

I'm not attacking you here, I just want to understand a couple of things, honestly, so bear with me a sec. If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to tell me.

Marie said:
I deleted the whole thread because it seemed pretty obvious, as EVERYBODY pointed out, that no one had anything to learn from me.
I understand this from an emotional viewpoint. Basically, you put up a link to the other site because upon visiting it, you were creeped out and probably thought, "I wonder if any of the people at SotT have seen this, because it's pretty creepy stuff and I bet they'd be interested". I totally get that. Then, after sharing what you found, you get a few responses that say, "yeah, it seems creepy, but if you really look at it, then......". So, judging from your reaction of deleting it all, those responses probably made you feel like the people who responded thought you weren't sharp enough to pick up on what was going on. Even though that is not what they were saying, it's still no fun to hear, especially if you're trying to participate and trying to put some things up that you thought might be interesting to talk about. If I hadn't been around this group of folks for a little while, I might have been taken aback by it too, so on that level, I think that I do understand your emotional reaction of, basically, saying, "sheesh, never mind, I'll just take it down then".

Marie said:
Now if I have somehow been judged "unworthy" I would like for you to have the grace (or honesty) to kick me out altogether.
Again, this is just me speaking and I could totally be wrong, but this also seems to point to a general feeling of insecurity on your part as far as being seen as not saying the right things, which, let's face it, is understandable if veiwed from an insecure emotional standpoint. Don't think that I'm using the word insecure in a derogatory manner here at all, I'm not. I can be about as insecure as they come, so I know the feeling. Actually, the discussion from the onset was always focused on the site itself, not you; and on the information that is presented - again, not on you, although I totally understand how that line could FEEL very very blurry.

Marie said:
And Sam, you could have simply answered me without dragging me in the mud.
Yep, having an email you thought you wrote to one person displayed for everyone to see can definitely feel like you're being dragged through the mud - I've been there, and when it happened, initially, I was so mad! What's interesting (if you can seperate yourself for a second from the situation as a whole), is that chances are that Sam posted the email because he felt attacked by you, so his emotional center wanted other people to take a look at it, to make sure that what he considered an innocent action was seen as an innocent action. Human emotions are so much 'fun' sometimes, eh? I've really no considered opinion on whether it was a wise thing to do or not on Sam's part, but it's what he chose to do, so here we are. If I were in his position, I may have done the same, it's really hard to say without being there. (again, remember this is just me talking, not the definitive truth of anything.)


Marie said:
Laura, what does not compute? How could good information come from a discussion of material that is obviously twisted or manipulated?
Believe it or not, it is much more informative for people to see a site that is creepy and looks informative and draws you in, turn out to really be cointelpro, than for people to never see the site at all. It is actually a very informative thing to bring it up, and that's what, I think, Laura was getting at. Once again, if you felt that you were the one who was being told that you weren't sharp enough to see that it is likely cointelpro, instead of seeing that the comments were directed at the site and not you, it would follow that you would think that no one would or could learn anything from the whole thread. What might be hard to remember at a time like this is that the learning isn't about how you are perceived by others, it's about nailing down, with facts, what is really going on at this other site.

Marie said:
As for the gender bias, it seemed like the only possible explanation. Why else would anybody use your name against your wishes, in association with information that you now know to be worse than dead-wrong?
I have to admit to being a bit stumped at the gender issue implication. I'm female and a minority in more than two ways, so it's not that I don't understand the propensity for sexist interpretations and such - or that I haven't been on the receiving end of such idiocy more times than I'd like to remember. I suppose the reason I'm stumped is that the thread itself was about a site that doesn't seem to have gender related issues. Perhaps, and just perhaps, this feeling also came from confusing the criticism of the site with criticism of yourself? I have no way of knowing, of course, I just thought I'd take a minute or two to describe what might have been going on internally to lead us to this point.

If I'm totally out in left field, then tell me - it wouldn't be the first time. If I'm not, then try to reconsider the value of your thread. I still think it's better for people to see it and understand why it is what it is then to not see it at all.

a
 
M

Marie

Guest
Informative and Creepy

Hi Anne,

First of all, thanks for not attacking me. Your email got some things right and some things wrong. First, I didn't pull out the post out of a feeling of others not getting it. I had read it, sincerely thought it was good, and when it came out that it was garbage I figured it had nothing to do with the forum, and I didn't like the fact of having made such a huge mistake either. Plus there were semantics in there (having assumed businesspeople wouldn't use "entity" for "business" or "organization") and I felt pretty silly.

Also, the fact that I e-mailed Sam privately is because I think people should at least be given a chance to defend themselves before being publicly attacked. Obviously few people here have such a notion.

Now back to having the answer re-posted, I figured it was this Sam guy going: "Hey, I caught her, I caught her! Don't let anyone forget it, I caught her!" Then why would anyone act like that, unless they had something personal/political against you? I figured there had to be some reason why I didn't have a right to error, and I do not see anything that I ever wrote, that for any reason could have offended someone/set someone against me, except for my support of women's rights. You could also say I have lots of experience at being attacked on grounds of said support.

I think the big issue there was having my name tied to that site. But none of that matters much anymore - after Laura's comments I'm as good as kicked out.

And by the way, if Laura bothers reading this: Ever thought maybe not everyone does everything calculating every move? I still think it would be more honest of you to kick me out square than to character-assassinate me like that.
 

Craig

Jedi Master
Informative and Creepy

Hi Marie,

First of all, thanks for not attacking me. Your email got some things right and some things wrong. First, I didn't pull out the post out of a feeling of others not getting it. I had read it, sincerely thought it was good, and when it came out that it was garbage I figured it had nothing to do with the forum, and I didn't like the fact of having made such a huge mistake either.
But that was Laura’s point: nothing is a “mistake” when it comes to learning, so to speak. So what if you posted a site that turned out to be garbage, particularly - and this is the issue - when other member’s could see it? Yes, it was an egoistic thing to do because you didn’t like something and because of that, you did become a “useful idiot” to those who are counter-intelligence. I don’t believe that you knew that, but all the same, it plays right into their hands. But why sit around being all offended and see that you can learn a lesson from this, albeit “scratching” your self-importance.

Plus there were semantics in there (having assumed businesspeople wouldn't use "entity" for "business" or "organization") and I felt pretty silly.

Also, the fact that I e-mailed Sam privately is because I think people should at least be given a chance to defend themselves before being publicly attacked. Obviously few people here have such a notion.
Marie, you weren’t attacked; you’ve just got a huge baggage of self-importance.

Now back to having the answer re-posted, I figured it was this Sam guy going: "Hey, I caught her, I caught her! Don't let anyone forget it, I caught her!" Then why would anyone act like that, unless they had something personal/political against you? I figured there had to be some reason why I didn't have a right to error, and I do not see anything that I ever wrote, that for any reason could have offended someone/set someone against me, except for my support of women's rights. You could also say I have lots of experience at being attacked on grounds of said support.

I think the big issue there was having my name tied to that site. But none of that matters much anymore - after Laura's comments I'm as good as kicked out.
This reads like a lot of self-pity - the fact is you’re still able to post so you haven’t been kicked out.

And by the way, if Laura bothers reading this: Ever thought maybe not everyone does everything calculating every move? I still think it would be more honest of you to kick me out square than to character-assassinate me like that.
If you read what Laura said carefully - and with a clear head, you’d see that she never once said that you were actually “calculating every move”, nor was it a character-assassination. Perhaps she was giving feedback that would - if you weren’t so identified with your self-importance, justification and pity-programs - potentially offer you a good lesson about your personality.

As Ouspensky said: “you have the right not to be negative.”
 

Ryan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Informative and Creepy

Marie said:
I had read it, sincerely thought it was good, and when it came out that it was garbage I figured it had nothing to do with the forum, and I didn't like the fact of having made such a huge mistake either.
So you are worried you made a mistake? So what? Maybe it wasn't a mistake, because now more people have had the chance to learn about a possible disinfo site. In that sense, what you originally did could have been a Good Thing(tm).

Also, the fact that I e-mailed Sam privately is because I think people should at least be given a chance to defend themselves before being publicly attacked. Obviously few people here have such a notion.
Where in Sam's post did he attack you? I didn't see any insults or innuendo.

Now back to having the answer re-posted, I figured it was this Sam guy going: "Hey, I caught her, I caught her! Don't let anyone forget it, I caught her!" Then why would anyone act like that, unless they had something personal/political against you?
That's assuming that Sam was, in fact, attacking you. I don't think he was.

I figured there had to be some reason why I didn't have a right to error,
Of course you have a right to make a mistake. Why do you think that you don't?

and I do not see anything that I ever wrote, that for any reason could have offended someone/set someone against me, except for my support of women's rights. You could also say I have lots of experience at being attacked on grounds of said support.
So, perhaps you "jumped the gun", due to being sensitized by experiences in the past?

I think the big issue there was having my name tied to that site. But none of that matters much anymore - after Laura's comments I'm as good as kicked out.
Why would you think that?

And by the way, if Laura bothers reading this: Ever thought maybe not everyone does everything calculating every move? I still think it would be more honest of you to kick me out square than to character-assassinate me like that.
Well, if you are telling the truth, why get so upset about it? You seem to have a strong emotional response - it would be beneficial for you to observe it closely, IMO.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Informative and Creepy

I'll tell you what Marie: there was a lunatic called by Durand who posted pages of insanity, which the administrators of the forum could have decided to delete because what Durand wrote was incomprehensible drivel. Yet from that drivel came a very informative and to me very useful thread.

I wish you would not have deleted your post, Marie. People need all the help and insight they can get, and you never know where that help and insight might come from. It's really not a rare thing for a seemingly "unworthy" post to give birth to a real jewel of a thread.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Informative and Creepy

Marie, my question is: why are you so IDENTIFIED with the thing? (The site, perceived attacks on the site that you receive as attacks on you, etc) People normally only identify with things that they invest a great deal of energy into. If you just "found the site, read it, posted it for discussion," then it is truly incomprehensible that you would take the subsequent discussion so personally.

As Ryan pointed out above, the discussion of this site could be extremely valuable and informative to a person who might be searching the web for information about it, so deleting the discussion was depriving others of valuable information.

Now, both of those things added together suggest very strongly PERSONAL INVESTMENT in the site.

Sure, as Anart points out, you could be just having some sort of really over-sensitive reaction, in which case getting used to open discussions would do you a lot of good. You don't have to be IDENTIFIED with things.

Let me give you a simple example: imagine yourself in a working group where ideas for doing something - say, making plans for a party - are being tossed around. Suppose you propose the idea that it should be held on one day, and several other people point out that the day you have proposed is not good because it is a particular holiday that most people spend with their families and they would not be likely to attend a party on that day. Are you going to be so IDENTIFIED with your idea that you jump up in a huff, storm off and say "If my idea isn't okay, obviously you people don't like me or want me around..."

That would be pretty silly, right? Listening to the arguments about what would be a good day for the party can lead to the ideal schedule for the greatest number of people.

It's the same thing.

If you are either so hypersensitive or self-important that no one can have a discussion with you without being afraid of you "going off" then there isn't much hope for you to be able to network with others, now is there?
 
M

Marie

Guest
Informative and Creepy

Laura, this never was about the site. If anything I want to have nothing to do with it, and that's precisely the point. Yes I was angry when I wrote the e-mail, and I sure as hell paid for it, but this doesn't seem the point anymore.

What seems to be the point is wether or not I am welcome, and I sure would like to be, but I have to face the facts - you basically called me evil. I waited so long to dare get in that forum, and then thinking that maybe you'd eventually write to me. And yeah, you did - to paint me in such a light that if I was really half that horrible a person, I'd have a moral obligation to kill myself. Now I am not saying that is what you said, or implied or anything, I am just saying that is my reaction to the creature that you call "Marie", and I spent as much time in instrospection and self-doubt as anyone, but still I am not that creature.

Anyway, thanks to Anart, Craig, Ryan and Esoquest - you tried to help and I am grateful, only I am not sure it this mess even can be cleaned. Craig, when I said "as good as kicked out", I was referring to the possibilities of real participation and evolution - believe it or not a few days ago my possible ideas for the future included maybe eventually trying for the QFS. Pretty ridiculous idea now. Anyway for all it's worth, I'm sorry.
 

Ben

Jedi Council Member
Informative and Creepy

Marie, I think the people on this thread have patiently pointed out that you are very welcome to present your ideas, so much so that they question why you wanted to remove a post which may have proven valuable to people at some point. At the same time, I think it is fairly clear that they are not suggesting that you are 'evil' in any way, rather that evil acts in an opportunistic manner through 'conduits' - which may include the actions of any of us, at any time if we are not sufficiently vigilant.

So what I am saying is, since I think these things were expressed quite clearly and lucidly to you in these posts, why have you persisted in perceiving some kind of attack or judgement on their part? This may be a good opportunity for you to work on yourself, turn this into a good thing. Also I am trying to say that this never was a bad thing, nobody is attacking you and I think you are most welcome to network with us :)
 

knowledge_of_self

The Living Force
Informative and Creepy

I would like to insert a quote from the Movie_ the MATRIX. This quote very well states how, anyone is potentially an agent willingly, or unwillingly as long as they are part of the system.

[…]
Morpheus: The Matrix is a system Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you are inside, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save.
But until we do, these people are part of that system… and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand… most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert…so hopelessly dependent on the system… that they will fight to protect it.
Were you listening to me Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?
Look again!

Neo: What are they?

Morpheus: Sentient programs. They can move in and out of any software still hardwired to their system. That mean that anyone we haven’t unplugged… is potentially an agent. Inside the matrix… they are everyone… and they are no one.
[…]

Do you believe you have been completely “unplugged” from the matrix? If your answer is no, than you are (just like the rest of us) a potential agent of the matrix. As long as we let our self-importance, our reason, and our emotions dictate our path… than we are a potential agent. Imo Marie, you have let your emotions and self-importance dictate your path, and thus you have UNWILLINGLY become an agent. Perhaps it is time to step back, and take a moment of observation. From what I understand of the thread, you believe that there is a personal attack made on you, which I perceive as otherwise. There is no attack to you personally. But if you believe there is- no one can make you think otherwise. So I direct you to what the C’s say; if one is under attack, the only form of defence is continuous knowledge input. So please continue your reading and knowledge input, and don’t give-up on one day becoming “unplugged.”

Nina
 
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