Knights battling snails in Medieval Manuscripts

OutSky

Jedi
In the next post I have done mostly a synthesis while adding excerpts of some brief articles on this singular snail-topic— also added, should I say, a little bit of original research. If some of the following pictures may look like comical, nevertheless in my opinion these colorful draws by those medieval artists capture a deep aspect of our history and soul —though some may indeed have aimed amusing; who knows?

And this is why I ended up creating this thread, though in a hesitant way since also occurred to me that this post seems to fit well in the "Creative Acts" section, as well as in the “Alton Towers” thread, which brings notable notices to those pursuing the Work. Indeed I didn’t merge it there because this one is kind of far-reaching at least in what regards the large quantity and motives of drawings. By the way, I just presented a few drawings; maybe others interested in this topic could add other ones? And thoughts?

Snails are briefly mentioned in the Transcripts, though as usual under the C’s transcendental manner. Indeed the entire sessions related to the next quotations are fabulous, and when we “connect” the below passages with other sessions… well “connection” may turn out a subjective thing —in a good way.​
Session May 7, 1995

Q: Is this snailformation a hoax?
A: Open.

Q: What does it mean?​
A: Open.​
5. Buried memory.​
6. Train.​
7. Longing.​
8. Knowledge through conception.​
9. Sight provides confirmation.​
10. Relay learnings.​
11. Communication.​

Q: (J) Well, that’s the one they use for their logo.
( T) I wonder if they knew that?
A: Wonder indeed!
12. Passage of knowledge.
13. Find necessary clues by studying cyclical patterns.
14. Family.
15. Season of change.
16. Grand advance.
17. Universe as laboratory.
18. Dimensional crossover.
19. Physical life pictorial.
……………………………
Session December 28, 1996

Q: (L) Do planets and Suns talk to each other? Are they angels and archangels?
A: Laura, let us not go over the “deep end.” [laughter] Boys are all snails and puppy dog tails... Girls are really sugar and spice, and everything nice...

Q: (L) So, you are making fun of me!
A: Sure, why not?

Q: (L) Well, are there such things as archangels?
A: Maybe.

Q: (L) Well, if there are such things as archangels, how would we perceive them?
A: Too complex.

Q: Okay, do different individuals have connections to different archangels?
(V) Yes, are our souls born from different archangel realms?
A: No. The soul was never created. Was/Is/Always will be.

Right! that is beautifully elaborated by the C’s. To those not used with that literature, the C’s are quoting a popular parable seen in the Mother Goose, which is a collection of fairy tales. Now, though the C’s for sure are humorous, of course they don’t miss an opportunity to show the unveiling doors of the mysteries placed into clues everywhere. The entire small song, is bellow,​
Mother Goose (fairy tales)
What are little boys made of,​
made of,​
What are little boys made of?​
Snaps and snails, and puppydog's tails;​
And that's what little boys are made of,​
made of.​
What are little girls made of, made of,​
made of,​
What are little girls made of?​
Sugar and spice, and all that's nice;​
And that's what little girls are made of,​
made of.​

And, “tailors” do use “tails”?;-D Another song:​
Mother Goose (fairy tales)
Four and twenty tailors went to kill a snail,​
The best man amongst them durst not touch her tail;​
She put out her horns like a little Kyloe cow.​
Run, tailors, run, or she’ll kill you all even now.​

And below we have the sweet honey brought to a party danced in minuet, which is a music in 3 times.​
"Come take up your Hats, and away let us haste," Mother Goose (fairy tales)
And the Snail, with her horns peeping out​
of her shell,​
Came, fatigued with the distance, the​
length of an ell.​
A mushroom the table, and on it was​
spread​
A water-dock leaf, which their table-cloth​
made.​
The viands were various, to each of their​
taste,​
And the Bee brought the honey to sweeten​
the feast.​
With steps most majestic the Snail did​
advance,​
And he promised the gazers a minuet to​
dance;​
But they all laughed so loud that he drew​
in his head,​
And went in his own little chamber to​
bed.​
 

OutSky

Jedi
Knights x snails 19.jpg
In 2013 a group of medievalists from Britain went into a store to look up medieval genealogical scrolls. During their visit they came across a late-13th century manuscript from England titled Royal MS 14 B V. This was an example among others of the medieval illuminated manuscripts that are full with unexplained doodles of images of rabbits killing humans and of snails fighting with the knights.

They abound in the margins of gothic manuscripts, and other blank spaces of 13th and 14th century English texts, sketches and notes. Oddly the scene is recurring: a brave knight in shining armor facing down a snail. The snail may be huge or sometimes tiny. The snail may go all the way through the page, or at times just under the foot of the knight. In some draws the knight looks afflicted, dumbfounded, or even defeated by his opponent.

Scholarly no one knows what the scenes really mean. The British Library chances the scene might represent the Resurrection, or it might pose for the Lombards, the Germanic people who ruled Italy from 568 to 774 AD, as proposed by Lillian Randall, who in 1960 also wrote the book The Snail in Gothic Marginal Warfare. As claims Randall, ‘the snails portray Lombards,’ “a group vilified in the early middle ages for treasonous behaviour, the sin of usury, and ‘non-chivalrous comportment in general.” But this latter theory was counterattacked by other researchers in the British Library since ’the knights are shown on the losing side of the battle with snails.’
Knights x snails 01.jpg
Knights x snails 02.jpg
“Resurrection” was ventured by the historian Comte de Bastard in 1850 since in two manuscripts the drawing was in the vicinity of the miniature depicting the “Raising of Lazarus.” In the story, from the New Testament, Jesus raises Lazarus of Bethany from the dead after four days of his entombment.

But the medievalist Lisa Spangenberg says that “the armored snail fighting the armored knight is a reminder of the inevitability of death,” a sentiment captured in the Biblical Psalm 58:​
Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bends his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces. As a snail which melts, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Knights x snails 07.jpg
Knights x snails 08.jpg
Lilian Randall’s research also shows various pictures of snails climbing a ladder that metaphorically could portray the social ladder. Thus, the snails depicting the poor class, that is, the common folk rising against a dominant aristocracy wherein are the wealthy knights. The valiant snails could be an annotation on social oppression.​
left: individual striking snail in Smithfield Decretals
Knights x snails 30.jpg

Also is conspicuous that the illuminated medieval manuscripts were constructed in a way to galvanize the attention of the readers. Thus illustrations on the margin of the books sometimes bring some artwork supposed to “engage” the audience.
Knights x snails 03.jpg
Another allegation, to explain these permeating depictions, blames the gastropod as the enemy of the person writing the manuscripts. Again the problem is that this doesn’t explain why the knights are always losing to the “villain.” Anyway, who should be the good guy?

At last, in fact in the history of earth there were big snails, and possibly some larger than humans. In temperate climates from the USA and across Europe have been found fossils of giant cephalopods like the Pachydiscus Seppenradensis. These real giant snails could face medieval knights but their timing doesn’t collaborate. Fossil records date the Parapuzosia back to the early-to-late Cretaceous period of Earth’s history. Therefore these snails shared the environ with “saurus” like the Ankylosaurus.
Knights x snails 11.jpg
Notice that knight has a snake around the scabbard of his sword.

Knights x snails 13.jpg

So, supposing that the knights were not clashing against really giant snails, what does mean all the insistent imagery of knights fighting powerful snails? Could they be minuscule knights combating normal-sized snails over twigs and foliage?
Knights x snails 06.jpg

The Snail in Gothic Marginal Warfare by L. Randall

As stated in The Snail in Gothic Marginal Warfare by Lilian Randall, the “snail confrontation” was most popular between 1290 and 1325. The fringe drawings depicted a knight battling against a magnanimous gastropod. This uncanny tendency, Randall notes, was pretty extensive, emerging up in French, English, and Flemish manuscripts. The works stretched from “psalters” and “breviaries” to “pontificals” and “decretals”.

According to Randall, the majority of the mollusk pictures were ordinary in quality and presenting a knight dueling the snail. “In composition the motif varies little from country to country. The most common form of representation shows a knight armed with mace or sword confronting a snail whose horns are extended and often pointed like arrows …”
Knights x snails 33.jpg
Sometimes, the snail-battlers were naked. “In one instance,” Randall elaborates, “a nude woman opposes the snail with spear and shield.” Sometimes the knight was not human or only half human. Randall asserts that metamorphosing knights into half-human hybrids was a popular little trend-with-a-trend, which some artists took to its logical extreme: replacing the human knights entirely with animals. Thus we have “an ape armed with sword or crossbow or on horseback with a spear; a cat stalking a snail with the head of a mouse; a dog, dragon, ram, or even a hare in fierce opposition.”

As claims Randall, the “principal connotation” of the motif is satire. Since human knights are often seen frightened before—or, indeed, losing to—the inoffensive, slow snails, it makes sense that the image is a way to emphasize cowardice. However Randall does not note that peculiarly some gastropods own a sexual organ known as “love dart” that resembles a jousting gear. So they could “attack” in certain sense.

In similar way Elizabeth Moore Hunt remarks in her Illuminating the Borders of Northern French and Flemish Manuscripts, 1270-1310, “…the natural baseness of the animal makes it unworthy prey for splendid jousting gear and thus a humorous parody of the knight in arms.” “Also suggested as a possible meaning for the threatening snail is ‘social-climbing.’ The growth of the urban bourgeois and patrician classes occasioned scuffles between the count and the towns; meanwhile the nobility was experiencing social anxieties in the face of increased monarchial power.” This could reason the peaceful snail drawings that Randall describes such as, “two snails with monstrous heads atop a series of steps” and “three snails ascending a ladder.”

Randall also identifies the slugs as a known insult to the Lombards derided in the accounts of their surrender to King Charlemagne in 772. “At what date the snail became part of this legend is difficult to determine,” “…although the association of Lombards and snails doubtless existed in oral tradition some time before its transcription towards the middle of the twelfth century.” Randal asserts that about the 13th century, Lombards became a detested ethnic people in northern Europe, as they “monopolized” occupations like pawnbroker and usurer. “They did not hold full rights of citizenship, including the right to bear arms, a restriction which may have abetted the notion of their military ineffectuality.” But Randall allows room to doubts as in her conclusion she settles herself between the Lombard theory and mere satire.

As matter of fact, Harvard professor Jan Ziolkowski gives a somewhat different panorama. In his book Talking Animals: Medieval Latin Beast Poetry, 750-1150, the 12th century poem “The Lombard and Snail” is told a “downscaled epic” with a Lombard “read[ying] himself to do battle with a snail” —this quite interesting poem can be seen in the next posts.

Shells

It is curious how the medieval illustrators find shelter in shells to multi animal forms, even human and hybrids. Could those be stealing the snails’ armor? The shell-man and shell-goat below are from the Breviary of Renaud de Bar.​
Knights x snails 31.jpg
Mother Goose (fairy tales)
Snail, snail, come put out your horn,​
Tomorrow is the day to shear the corn.​
 
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OutSky

Jedi
As to the Ziolkowski’s translation I have not seen it, but the poem is also found in the 1884 Austrian book Wiener Studien, 6th Journal of Classical Philology, as a Latin addendum titled “Study of the Middle Ages tales originated from Ovid accounts” by Heinr. Steph. Sedlmayer.

It’s large consensus that the poem comes from an Ovidian impersonator. I think this claim possible though being something weird since historically there are centuries separating the kingdom of Lombardy (in Italy) from the time of Ovid. But also occurs that “savage Lombards” are mentioned in Roman texts already in 1st century —the Ovid’s time— as well apparently their culture left remnants dated from 6th century BC around the river Elbe in Germany. So, could the poem have origins from ancient vocal traditions, and much later transcribed to Latin?

Moreover, the conventional translation and studies of this poem seem imbued and framed by social expectations —e.g. in the 1893, vol 22, Giornale Storico della Letteratura Italiana; and later in the contested book of Lillian Randall mentioned before. I see in this a potential "cascade effect" that may work like a trap to knowledge, as if in a looping program. This reminds me how sometimes we find out an account with inconsistent versions within the same language. A major example of that occurs with the Rig-Veda —which is very interesting work anyway. These Sanskrit texts suddenly changed in content and meaning when they were rewritten centuries ago —this admitted by the academy. Thus, sometimes when older Sanskrit manuscripts are found in some forgotten place of Nepal, they enormously differ from ‘newer’ ones. Because of that, I have in my collection a lot of books of same title translated by different authors. In those books one can realize that each translator supplies some fundamental information which is completely absent into another author’s translation. Indeed when I find a “universal translation,” that is to say, one that features little variation from a translator to another, I suspect that something may be wrong with that “common understanding.”

Now back to our “Lombard” all these remarks also recall a session:
March 6, 1999 Session

Q: (C) Okay... Sekenenre...
(L) I think that ‘whoa’ means that you are supposed to back up and regroup with your questions...
A: Jump to conclusions. How ya going to keep ‘em down on the “farm?”

Q: (L) Is it jumping to a conclusion to think that there is a connection between Sekenenre and the Knights
Templar? Well, back up to the personal issue here. The dream.
(C) Was I actually a contemporary of Sekenenre in the body?
A: See previous answer.

Q: (L) I guess you are jumping to conclusions again. I think I would get very basic. In the first place, we don’t even know for sure that Sekenenre actually existed as described or listed. It could be all disinformation. Was or is Sekenenre an incarnate person?
A: No.

Q: (L) Why was Sekenenre known as one of the pharoahs of Egypt?
A: History is a bit muddied by design.

And this ‘mud’ is only a ‘bit’ because ‘history’ is already minuscule in relation to truth —as we have seen— as much are presented “studies” on the “Theban” Seqenenre, and even his claimed physical remains.​
 

OutSky

Jedi
The Latin text is available below as well my translation typed in blue letter.

Regarding this translation, at first trying to save some energy, I experimented web’s translators, but they again turned out quite weak. Thus became clear that I should try to make a provisional translation, if nothing else better. Shortening the story, my translation is not an academic work, it is improvised and so subjected to future better terms. Nevertheless, while it differs from mainstream translations yet is more liberated of constraining words —at least so intended— and thus opened for some coherency with the medieval marginalia and popular fairy songs.

Besides, this labor turned out a glad work since resulted that the poem —showed next— is much more inspiring, revealing than I had wondered initially, and even at the root of the chaos of nowadays. :-)

The Lombard and the Snail - anonymous

The Lombard and the Snail, the Ovid's story begins.

Worship goes toward the grain fields of the Lombards; (they) surround them,
Encircle and are glad, so far as being delighted and sprung from the joyful view;
As long as happy as so he (Lombard) marvels at the harvest,
To this, the contrary to their habit was seen in the snail.
Who does sit in wonder; astounded, horrified and out of breath,
The mind departs together with the colors that forsake the warmed armor.

7
When finally it returns to its heart, at distance it stands up waiting, and asks:
‘What I see is a calamity; this is my essence lifetime.
This is not a wolf, a bear or snake; I do not know what it is,
But I do know, whatever is the case, with respect to me, a war rises.
The round shield signal; the sign is of the horn’s warfare.
Behold, battle I refuse: a consciousness not chooses to die.

13
If one can overcome such muster of so great splendor,
Glory and form everlasting deserve.
What do I mean? It is not integrity running to meet an unnatural event.
For the rest chooses not a pretty fear too
Who does surrender glory? In truth when rage is drawn out, a fight is not to be summoned.
Humankind does not have to die in this way.

19
That is, my companion and all seen offspring.
On behalf of earth go to see now himself the surrendered outer covering
In addition, this fight does not seem fair at all;
My enemy has armor, on the other hand unarmed am.
Thus it doubts; inward fear and honor dispute the same place:
Decency bestowed to the fight, in truth that fear of yours runs away.
And then let the intention be done, insofar as equal conditions are revealed.
Provides to the companion as a decision made upon the divine
God is responsive as to let be the palm tree as far as to enjoy himself,
Although scarcely ready to believe in divinities

29
Whereas the frightened consort, fearing for her immaculate mate,
Cried out in tears: What kind of ferociousness does rise?
What war do you put up? By now stop killing the beasts.
Lay down your feelings; refrain from stripping me.
Spare your children, if you do not spare power,
Instead of pain, look at the outside of that which you refer to daylight
By no means the audacious Hector, nor to this was prepared Achilles,
Hercules’ strength lacks in these heights.

37
Put out the bound-request, one says ‘precious companion’;
Do not make requests to a bold mind contrary persuading; or to tears.
My gods exist in these days as records without the granted boundaries that surrendered;
Now pray, to prevail a powerful infancy of the man.
While stands still in the midst of the field, fast to that point exert oneself and there
Enclose that great beast fairly holding out as a threat:

43
“O beast, one similar to you, nature has never created,
Monster of beasts, destructive purge,
Who I now spread round in an arch, not I your horns terrify
Conch, shell under which are sealed the shades of the dead.

47
Not on the other side, but today here on the right, strong men perished
You allow the crops maculate me.
Even waves the spear, whose point aims nearest to the death,
Exercise foresight; also hand vigorous accomplishment.
So far in fact who does allow suitable gifts?
The matter is not small; come the lawyers.


[The Lombard and the Snail – anonymous (original Latin as per H. S. Sedlmayer)]

Publii Ovidii Nasonis de limax et Lombardo fabella incipit.

Venerat ad segetes Lombardus; circuit illas,
Circuit et gaudet, quod sata laeta videt.
Dum laetas laetas sie admiratur aristas,
Huic praeter solitum visa limax fuit.
Quid sit, miratur; stupet, horret et exanimatur,
Mens abit at que color, deserit ossa calor.

7
Ut tandem redit ad sese, procul adstat et inquit:
'Quod video scelus est; haec mihi summa dies.
Non lupus hoc, ursus vel vipera; nescio quid sit,
Sed scio, quicquid sit, quod mihi bella parat.
Est clipeus Signum, signum sunt cornua belli.
En pugnare negem : non ego malo mori.

13
Si superare queam monstrum talis speciei,
Et decus et formam perpetuam merui.
Quid dixi? non est probitas occurrere monstro.
Cetera non desunt bella timenda minus.
Quae dabitur laus? sed furor id, non pugna vocetur.
Humanum non est hoc periisse modo.

19
Hoc mea si coniunx et proles tota videret,
Pro solo visu iam sibi terga darent.
Insuper haec pugna non aequa videbitur ulli:
Nam meus armatus hostis, inermis ego'.
Sic dubitat; metus atque pudor pugnant in eodem:
Dat pugnare pudor, sed metus ista fugit.
Denique consilium fiat, quod iudicat aequum.
Consulit uxorem consuluit que deos.
Di sibi respondent, quod sit palma fruiturus.
Cum vix auderet credere numinibus.

29
At coniunx timida, metuens ut casta marito,
Exclamat lacrimans: 'Quid, furibunde paras?
Quae tibi bella paras? iam desine monstra perire.
Pone tuos animos, parce mihi miserae.
Parce tuis natis, si non tibi parcere curas,
Pro dolor, extremus viderit ista dies.
Non audax Hector, non hoc auderet Achilles,
Herculis hic virtus ardua deficeret.'

37
'Pone modum precibus', inquit 'carissima coniunx;
Non prece mens audax flectitur aut lacrimis.
Di mihi sunt hodie nomen sine fine daturi:
lam precor, ut valeas et valeant pueri.'
Ut stetit in campo velox huc tendit et illuc
Circumdat que feram magna satis minitans:

43
'O fera, cui nunquam similem natura creavit,
Monstrum monstrorum perniciosa lues,
Quae mihi nunc pandis non me tua cornua terrent
Testa que, sub cuius tegmine tuta manes.

47
Hac hodie dextra forti moriere nec ultra
Te patiar segetes commaculare meas.'
Et vibrans telum, quae sint loca proxima morti,
Prospicit; et palmam strenuus exsequitur.
Pro tanto facto quae praemia digna dabuntur?
Non est res parva; causidici veniant.
 

OutSky

Jedi
Next some text of a ‘trend’ translation, which contradicts most of the marginalia drawings.

Lombard and Snail —mixed and derived from transl. by Hexter, Pfuntner & Haynes, 2020

[lines 1 to 7]
Walking around the field that he had assiduously cultivated and plowed, a Lombard
joyfully observed his abundant crops.
Then, unexpectedly, a snail appeared.
The Lombard didn’t know what it was.
Paralyzed with fear, he nearly died.


[lines 8 to 11]
When the Lombard finally regained his ability to think, he thought to himself:
What I see is terrible — my last day has come.
This isn’t a wolf, a bear, or a snake. I don’t know what it is,
but I know that whatever it is, it prepares to do battle with me.
Its shield is a sign of war; its horns are a sign of war.


[missing lines 12 to 17]

[lines 18 to 22]
It isn’t human to die in this way.
If my wife and all my children saw this,
at the sight alone they would have already turned their backs.
Moreover, this battle wouldn’t seem fair to anyone,
for my enemy is armed; I am unarmed.


[missing lines 23 to 30]

[lines 31 to 36]
What wars please you? Just let the monsters perish.
Set aside your anger. Spare me, have pity!
Spare your children, if you have no concern to spare yourself!
This day will see us separated in anguish.
Neither daring Hector, nor Achilles would have dared this.
The lofty manliness of Hercules would fail here.
That’s solid advice from a loving wife.
Men should just let the monsters alone to die on their own.


[lines 37 to 40]
“Set a limit to your prayers, dearest wife,” he said.
“A daring mind isn’t swayed by prayer or tears.
The gods today shall give me fame without end.
Now I pray that you be strong and the boys be strong.”


[lines 41 to 50]
He thus returned to the battlefield. Here and there he quickly marched,
circling the great beast, sufficiently threatening it:
“O beast whose nature has never before been similarly created,
monster of monsters, pernicious plague,
your horns that you now brandish at me don’t frighten me,
nor does the shell under which for protective covering you remain.
Today you will die by this strong right hand, and no longer
will I endure you befouling my fields.”
And balancing his spear, he looked for points that were
closest to causing death and vigorously pursued victory.


[lines 51 to 52]
For such a deed, what will be a worthy prize to give?
That’s no small matter. Let the lawyers come forward.
 

OutSky

Jedi
Back to the point, as can be seen in the poem, the “Lombards” are associated with “fertile fields.” Not incidentally this word “fertile” itself appears in the above Latin poem merged with other meanings —I didn’t placed it explicitly (in the above blue letters). Anyway, while there is a possible funny sense for the word “Lombard” that likely comes from the famous Lombard “Paul, the Deacon,” on the other hand other meanings, and more interesting, are available, such as that below that “coincidently” likens to the contents seen in the poem.
Smith’s Dict. of Greek and Roman Geography, vol 2

…….it seems to be more probable that they derived the name from the country they inhabited on the banks of the Elbe, where Borde (or Bord) still signifies "a fertile plain by the side of a river;'' and a district near Magdeburg is still called the lange Borde. According to this, Langobardi would signify "inhabitants of the long bord of the river.” ………Traces of the name of the Langobardi still occur in that country in such names as Bardengau, Bardewik.​


Now, all this takes us to the door of an inner contemplation.
 

OutSky

Jedi
Ops, sorry. Accidentally the next pictures were forgotten. They should have been placed in the above notes on non-snails in shells (2nd post). Like this:

……...........…..
Sometimes the knight was not human or only half human. Randall asserts that metamorphosing knights into half-human hybrids was a popular little trend-with-a-trend, which some artists took to its logical extreme: replacing the human knights entirely with animals. Thus we have “an ape armed with sword or crossbow or on horseback with a spear; a cat stalking a snail with the head of a mouse; a dog, dragon, ram, or even a hare in fierce opposition.”​
Knights x snails 32.jpg
 

OutSky

Jedi
For what it’s worth: It was a few years ago I came across this topic, and since then I believe that lightbulbs may be illuminated with this Work.

So, next to give a better focus first is quoted the lead-post where are corrected typo errors and wrong formatting!?? —perhaps per lack of attention/skill? though at that time before posting I had checked off with the “preview” function.” Anyway, here it is —let’s see if this time it stands right:​
May 7, 1995 session

Q: Is this snail formation a hoax?
A: Open.

Q: What does it mean?
A: Open.
5. Buried memory.​
6. Train.​
7. Longing.​
8. Knowledge through conception.​
9. Sight provides confirmation.​
10. Relay learnings.​
11. Communication.​

Q: (J) Well, that’s the one they use for their logo.
( T) I wonder if they knew that?
A: Wonder indeed!
12. Passage of knowledge.​
13. Find necessary clues by studying cyclical patterns.​
14. Family.​
15. Season of change.​
16. Grand advance.​
17. Universe as laboratory.​
18. Dimensional crossover.​
19. Physical life pictorial.​
……………………………
December 28, 1996 Session

Q: (L) Do planets and Suns talk to each other? Are they angels and archangels?
A: Laura, let us not go over the “deep end.” [laughter] Boys are all snails and puppy dog tails... Girls are really sugar and spice, and everything nice...

Q: (L) So, you are making fun of me!
A: Sure, why not?

Q: (L) Well, are there such things as archangels?
A: Maybe.

Q: (L) Well, if there are such things as archangels, how would we perceive them?
A: Too complex.

Q: Okay, do different individuals have connections to different archangels?
(V) Yes, are our souls born from different archangel realms?
A: No. The soul was never created. Was/Is/Always will be.
.......... (about comments as up there)

Okay, and now some other interesting pictures:
Snail beings - C Borgia, Palenque.jpg

Up-left a snail-god seen in the Codex Borgia. At its right, a snail-like entity seen in a tablet of Foliated Cross at Palenque. Though the “feet” of the latter entity remind an octopus, still a peculiar North American Native account —from north-western— tells of a contest where first arrived the quadrupeds, namely the Snail, Squirrel, Wolf, etc. …go figure —the whole tale possibly in another post. Anyway, as per Mayan signs —see Bowditcg et al, Maya culture— the snail is a symbol of the solstice of winter, and following this sense of the night too.

So, as hinted above, this “snail” imagery permeates mythologies around the World. It is not restrict to the Medieval Europe, though the emphases may be different from a place to another. But as told us the C’s:
August 14th 2016 Session

A: The ancient world was quite "well connected".
 

OutSky

Jedi
Tlatoc & snailman - Dresden Maya manuscript.jpg
Maya manuscript Dresden where we see the god Tlaloc and a snailman. Notice that the picture seems to suggest 2 sequential scenes where on the surface Tlaloc grabs a type of snake-fish.

In what regards this topic I found a profitable research in specific mythologies —e.g. Polynesian myths, etc. Nevertheless as showed in the earlier posts also this stuff may be easily found in popular songs and fables. Indeed, as we know, many times apparent “child-tales” can aid the Work too when they hit our consciousness deeply.

Now considering again a bit on North America we find more beings or “deities” in shells. The Native Haida and Kaigani have legends of an ancient “Shell” People —in A. P. Niblack, Coast Indians of Southern Alaska. Also the researcher M. S. Lovell (Edible Mollusca) mentions that in ancient remains in Tennessee was found a large shell, and in it was placed an idol made of clay in the form of a kneeling human. And E. T. Stevens (Flint Chips) tells that generations of the Native Omahas carried, during their hunting, a same holy shell dully skin-covered. But if someone attempted to uncover and look it, he was struck with immediate and total loss of sight.​
 

OutSky

Jedi
Furthermore, sidetracking the subject, there is a curious mention in the Biblical Psalms 58:7. Besides, to the disappointment of some escargot eaters, we have too the Leviticus that forbids snails as food:
Bible, Leviticus (11:30)

And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole. These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever does touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

At last, a piece seen in Chuang Tzu:
Chuang Tzu (c. 4th century BC)

“There is a creature called the snail —does Your Majesty know it?”
“Yes.”
“On top of its left horn is a kingdom called Buffet, and on top of its right horn is a kingdom called Maul. At times they quarrel over territory and go to war, strewing the field with corpses by the ten thousands, the victor pursuing the vanquished for half a month before returning home.”

“Pooh!” said the ruler. “What kind of empty talk is this?”
“But Your Majesty will perhaps allow me to show you the truth in it. Do you believe that there is a limit to the four directions, to up and down?”

“They have no limits,” said the ruler.
“And do you know that when the mind has wandered in these limitless reaches and returns to the lands we know and travel, they seem so small that it is not certain whether or not they even exist?”
“Yes,” said the ruler.
 

OutSky

Jedi
All the earlier herein posts were written before the Session on 18 September 2021. After reading that session I felt like urged or boosted to complete this cycle of postings with a fable —mentioned in the previous post. Also, I chose, among other reasons, this particular short tale because it recalls me elements and events seen in myths of other continents —e.g. the Norse Edda. Besides, likely would be not wise to overlook North America traditional accounts.

So, here it is,
“The Story of the Salmon”Myths of North American Indians; L. Spence—

A certain chief who had a very beautiful daughter was unwilling to part with her, but knowing that the time must come when she would marry he arranged a contest for her suitors, in which the feat was to break a pair of elk's antlers hung in the centre of the lodge.

"Whoever shall break these antlers," the old chief declared, "shall have the hand of my daughter."

The quadrupeds came first: the Snail, Squirrel, Otter, Beaver, Wolf, Bear, and Panther; but all their strength and skill would not suffice to break the antlers. Next came the Birds, but their efforts also were unavailing. The only creature left who had not attempted the feat was a feeble thing covered with sores, whom the mischievous Blue Jay derisively summoned to perform the task. After repeated taunts from the tricky bird, the creature rose, shook itself, and became whole and clean and very good to look upon, and the assembled company saw that it was the Salmon. He grasped the elk's antlers and easily broke them in five pieces. Then, claiming his prize, the chief's daughter, he led her away.

Before they had gone very far the people said: "Let us go and take the chief's daughter back," and they set off in pursuit of the pair along the sea-shore.

When Salmon saw what was happening he created a bay between himself and his pursuers. The people at length reached the point of the bay on which Salmon stood, but he made another bay, and when they looked, they could see him on the far-off point of that one. So, the chase went on till Salmon grew tired of exercising his magic powers.

Coyote and Badger, who were in advance of the others, decided to shoot at Salmon. The arrow hit him in the neck and killed him instantly. When the rest of the band came up they gave the chief's daughter to the Wolves, and she became the wife of one of them.

In due time the people returned to their village, and the Crow, who was Salmon's aunt, learnt of his death. She hastened away to the spot where he had been killed, to seek for his remains, but all she could find was one salmon's egg, which she hid in a hole in the river-bank. Next day she found that the egg was much larger, on the third day it was a small trout, and so it grew till it became a full-grown salmon, and at length a handsome youth.

Salmon's Magic Bath

Leading young Salmon to a mountain pool, his grand-aunt said: "Bathe there, that you may see spirits."

One day Salmon said: "I am tired of seeing spirits. Let me go away."

The old Crow thereupon told him of his father's death at the hands of Badger and Coyote.

"They have taken your father's bow," she said. The Salmon shot an arrow toward the forest, and the forest went on fire. He shot an arrow toward the prairie, and it also caught fire.

"Truly," muttered the old Crow, "you have seen spirits." Having made up his mind to get his father's bow, Salmon journeyed to the lodge where Coyote and Badger dwelt. He found the door shut, and the creatures with their faces blackened, pretending to lament the death of old Salmon. However, he was not deceived by their tricks, but boldly entered and demanded his father's bow. Four times they gave him other bows, which broke when he drew them. The fifth time it was really his father's bow he received. Taking Coyote and Badger outside, he knocked them together and killed them.

The Wolf Lodge

As he travelled across the prairie he stumbled on the habitation of the Wolves, and on entering the lodge he encountered his father's wife, who bade him hide before the monsters returned. By means of strategy he got the better of them, shot them all, and sailed away in a little boat with the woman. Here he fell into a deep sleep, and slept so long that at last his companion ventured to wake him. Very angry at being roused, he turned her into a pigeon and cast her out of the boat, while he himself, as a salmon, swam to the shore.

Near the edge of the water was a lodge, where dwelt five beautiful sisters. Salmon sat on the shore at a little distance, and took the form of an aged man covered with sores. When the eldest sister came down to speak to him he bade her carry him on her back to the lodge, but so loathsome a creature was he that she beat a hasty retreat. The second sister did likewise, and the third, and the fourth. But the youngest sister proceeded to carry him to the lodge, where he became again a young and handsome brave. He married all the sisters, but the youngest was his head-wife and his favourite.
 
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