Kundalini

Pierre

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An interesting discussion about kundalini got initiated in the 'podcast topics suggestions'
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=133

In order to give some more clarity to this topic, I thought it would be a good idea to create a dedicated thread.

Meanwhile I got some more information about Kundalini that is fundamentally different from what we usually read in New Age materials.

I don't have any tangible evidence about the following because it comes from a discussion with a martial art practicioner.


In appearances, kundalini seems very close to the Work as described by the Cs or Mouravieff.

It is indeed based on the generation of an energy/chi flow along the backbone allowing the activation of the 7 chackras/centers.

It seems to be an almost instant techniques. So through some specific movements the practictioner can initiate a strong chi/energy flow through the seven centers.

However, it leads to an unstable and very dangerous state, because Kundalini works through the uncontrolled over activity of the basal chakras (first center) pulsing up a very strong energy flow through the six other centers.

Activation is not made through a progressive/harmonious development of the 7 centers leading then to a fusion. This is an almost instant technics allowing a somehow artificial/nonharmonious energy burst through the centers.

Apparently Kundalini is a very old technic that, for example was used during asian wars in order to produce some kind of 'berserk' warriors.

Most New Age kundalini teachings seem irrelevant. However we should be very cautious with this kind of stuff since it certainly leads to grave/psychiatric hospital/jail (it's a bit like plugging a 9V engine directly on a nuclear plant).
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Axel_Dunor said:
Apparently Kundalini is a very old technic that, for example was used during asian wars in order to produce some kind of 'berserk' warriors.
This sounds interesting,

could you elaborate more
 

name

Jedi Master
Axel_Dunor said:
... it's a bit like plugging a 9V engine directly on a nuclear plant ...
me too ! me too !
:-)

jokes apart, how does one do that (the excercizes) ?
 

anart

The Living Force
From the Cassiopaea Glossary...

Cass Glossary said:
Kundalini


Esoteric teaching on this word varies greatly from source to source.

All sources agree that this is a sort of force or effect that is localized at the base of the spine and can be activated either spontaneously or through deliberate exercises. Kundalini is said to rise from the first chakra, along the spine, possibly all the way to the crown chakra. It is sometimes compared to a serpent that lies coiled at the base of the spine. Awakening this serpent is claimed to bring great powers and benefits.

Gurdjieff's view on the matter differs from most sources. He agrees that such a thing exists but teaches that it is the source of false imaginings, an actual bane of man, the remnant of the ill-famed 'organ kundabuffer' which is discussed extensively in Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson. Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.

The kundalini is often compared to a serpent, maybe because of the undulating sensation that can be felt along the spine when doing certain exercises. Mouravieff writes that this is what the serpent of Genesis actually represents.

See Evil Magician.
There is probably a very good reason this force is described as a coiled serpent... (and I see that this was brought up on the thread you've referenced, Axel).
 

Pierre

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And we know that there's not much difference between the serpent of Genesis and the Lizzies.

Maybe those technics allow some STS oriented energetic burst.

So far, I didn't get more information than the ones I previously shared. So far, I don't know anything more about kundalini application on asian battlefields and I don't know the genuine kundalini technics (anyway like black magic rituals I'm not sure those technics are very useful for those who chose the 'no free lunch' way).
 

Russ

Jedi Master
Kundalini sounds pretty crazy to me, I've read some pretty bad stuff about it. I still have an open mind but I'm not very interested in it anymore - it seems to me that unless its done in a very precise and exact manner, it could ruin everything you have ever worked for, so its a gamble, with a kind of "blurry" prize if you win.
 

Novelis

Jedi Master
In traditional Chinese Medicine the Kundalini Route of energy is called the Grand circulatory pathway, which means it's the primary and most important meridian in the body. In a book I have called Bone Marrow/brain washing Qi gong it is this meridian that is worked on. The thing is, Bone marrow Qi Gong is probably the most advanced form of Qi gong that exists, and one could ruin one's life trying to practice it prematurely. It says in that book that one can only start studying these primary channels once a long time has been spent studying the small circulatory pathways. The Qi gong practitioner has to have a good awareness of the small pathways that run all over the body, how they link to each other and the organs before even attempting to work on the kundalini channels. Can't run before you can walk basically OSIT.

Axel Duner said:
Maybe those technics allow some STS oriented energetic burst.
I don't see why to be honest, the energy circulates round and round at all times whether you are aware of it or not, if it didn't, you'd be dead. Qi's relation with your body is similar to how water relates to fish, the fish isn't aware of the water, to the fish it's just it's home it finds itself in, but if the fish leaves the water, it'll die. I think it's how you use that energy that determines whether it's STS or otherwise. I mean, we live in an STS realm, so the energy will be STS in some way or another, but it depends on your intent and reasons for learning these techniques I think.

anart said:
Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.
The study of the body's natural meridians is the medical science of the east, as far as I can see, and is a legacy of a science that's worth thousands of years, is all that investigation and study devoted to this VAST subject worth nothing? I don't see why it can't be studied scientifically, it has as much worth of study and is founded on as much, if not more ground as western medical science, acupuncturists are simply doctors who have learned the know-how of a medical science not known very well and still seen as "superstition" by some in the west. Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers.
 

anart

The Living Force
Novelis said:
In traditional Chinese Medicine the Kundalini Route of energy is called the Grand circulatory pathway, which means it's the primary and most important meridian in the body.
No offense intended at all, since it seems you have some investment in the development of 'kundalini energy' (apologies if you do not), but would it not follow logically for 'energy systems' to be set up on an STS framework since we all live, by mere incarnation, in an STS world? Why would the fact that any system or understanding has existed for thousands of years indicate that they are any less STS?

Axel Duner said:
Maybe those technics allow some STS oriented energetic burst.
Novelis said:
I don't see why to be honest, the energy circulates round and round at all times whether you are aware of it or not, if it didn't, you'd be dead. Qi's relation with your body is similar to how water relates to fish, the fish isn't aware of the water, to the fish it's just it's home it finds itself in, but if the fish leaves the water, it'll die. I think it's how you use that energy that determines whether it's STS or otherwise. I mean, we live in an STS realm, so the energy will be STS in some way or another, but it depends on your intent and reasons for learning these techniques I think.
Actually, you hit on exactly the key here, but you seem to avoid it, or 'chalk it up' to the way things are - the system and all those who inhabit it are by default STS - this 'coiled serpent' is supposedly lying 'dormant' until people learn to activate it more fully - perhaps, until people activate it fully, that STS power is lying dormant - perhaps not - but - the fact that it is referred to as a 'coiled serpent' until it awakens should, at the very least, give anyone who is aware of the symbolic reality we live in, cause to consider the source of not only the 'system', but the 'serpent' itself.

anart said:
Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.
Novelis said:
The study of the body's natural meridians is the medical science of the east, as far as I can see, and is a legacy of a science that's worth thousands of years, is all that investigation and study devoted to this VAST subject worth nothing? I don't see why it can't be studied scientifically, it has as much worth of study and is founded on as much, if not more ground as western medical science, acupuncturists are simply doctors who have learned the know-how of a medical science not known very well and still seen as "superstition" by some in the west. Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers.
This discussion has nothing to do with 'superstition' - you've been around long enough to know that. At this point I can only ask 'what knowledge' - and whether you are aware of how you are coming across with this last sentence. Are you really that attached to the concept of the development of kundalini energy that it makes you uncomfortable to consider that it may be a wholly STS endeavor? I don't have any answers - it may not, in fact, be a wholly STS endeavor - but I cannot disregard the implications that a complete anchoring into this STS world by the activation of this 'coiled serpent' is ultimately the point of this type of focus. At the very least, it is a possibility worth considering, and why would a thousands year history of anything prove that it is benevolent, or at the very least harmless? I understand the value of energy based medicine, but you seem to be blurring lines here, although I hope you will correct me if I am mistaken.
 

Pierre

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Maybe that two things are mixed up :

1/ the 'harmonious' stimulation of the energy buid up and circulation in the body and therefore along the backbone area and through the 7 centers (particularly conception and governing vessel, is it what you call the grand route, Novelis ?). This 'harmonious' approach could be some correct chi cong, neu cong and similar technics, requiring above all a lot of work, focus, balance,...

2/ the 'non harmonious' stimulation of the circulation of this energy. A kind of shorcut allowing an immediate but unbalanced energy flow. That what some might call Kundalini.

The mix up might come from the meaning of Kundalini. Apparently for some of us, it describes the energy flow through the centers areas/backbone (that is not per se positive or negative, all depending on how this activation is done) and for others it describes a specific technic inducing a major and unbalanced energy burst from the basal chakra.
 

Novelis

Jedi Master
Anart said:
No offense intended at all, since it seems you have some investment in the development of 'kundalini energy' (apologies if you do not), but would it not follow logically for 'energy systems' to be set up on an STS framework since we all live, by mere incarnation, in an STS world? Why would the fact that any system or understanding has existed for thousands of years indicate that they are any less STS?
No offence taken at all. In fact, I'm happy that you've pointed out your observations of my... How shall I put it? Attachments? I'm not sure what would be the most accurate description.
Please understand that, I decided to put forth my opinions on this subject partly because I was hoping someone would point out factors I haven't seen, to learn and to struggle within me to find the lies and denial based on observations of whoever sees them. That is the point of me being here, So, I'll try my best to explain myself truthfully, if I can give my explanation for my words as honestly as I can, then my underlying intent will be clearer to see, and if my opinions are based on lies and assumptions, I hope it can be pointed out. I'm more afraid of my underlying opinions about this subject going unnoticed and therefore remaining hidden to myself and others, than feeling the potential discomfort of having my reality torn away if my opinions are based on lies.
I am going to be as honest with everyone and myself as I can, but that doesn't mean I will account for all of the self deceit that exists within, I'm trying to not take a defensive stance in any way, but even the slightest mistake or act of defensiveness in explaining myself will obscure my meaning and your perspective. I don't see your comments as an attack, but some other I's that I might fail to notice might do so.
I admit, this is indeed a sensitive issue for me, and I can say that I have a heavy investment in the development of "Kundalini energy", don't think that I haven't wrestled with myself over whether I should just abandon the whole thing and concentrate solely on the forth way instead, I have done so, many times, but I always "fall back" into continuation of this development because of what I think I have gained from it so far, and what can see COULD be gained in the future. (Although I don't intend to expect or anticipate what might happen, if I do, I am quick to destroy (If I can) that fantasy when/if I find it)
To explain my "investment", I must give some information of my background so that my motives and intent for this study will be known to everyone. My body has always had problems so some reason, my mother said that even when I was a baby I couldn't simply relax and sleep properly, which is apparently unusual, when we are babies, we should be the most care free and relaxed, but I wasn't. I don't have an explanation for why this was so, it just was.
Very early on in life I developed Asthma, every time I had a slight cold I struggled to breath, this insecurity of staying alive in this world has caused me to fear DOING anything in this world that might make me fall down, so I hesitate in trying any endeavour, I only act after long, hard calculation of likelihood of success in the endeavour, even though I have never been rational or particularly analytical, so my "calculations" were mostly based on emotion rather than logic. Now, these are mere programmes I need to struggle against at some point, but I don't underestimate the power it has over me since I've used these programmes to "survive" since the beginning.
Since college about 5 years ago now, I started smoking heavily, and because of the terrible awareness I had of how to breathe correctly, my physical condition plummeted and I became very unhealthy. (There were other important factors that contributed towards this state of ill health, look at what I put in this thread)

novelis said:
My Dad and Mum are Moonies, so since being very young, growing up in that belief system has heavily skewed my views towards thinking that sex is not only wrong, but the WORST thing one could do if one is out of wedlock. Moonies hold the belief that the sole reason why humanity has fallen and is in it's sorry state is because Eve had literal, physical sex with Satan when she was meant to be wed to Adam, at the age of 15 apparently... Thus the most sinful thing one could do is have sex before receiving the "divine blessing" from God (in the form of an arranged marriage by Moon or by your parents). Since I was born into that religion, I was told since very young that my blood is "purer" than the rest of humanity since I am a "blessed" child (Coming from a new lineage set up by reverend Moon), so if I engage in sexual activity before my parents' or Moon's consent, this isn't only the worst sin one could commit, but actually makes one WORSE than Satan "himself"! Since Satan didn't know about the consequences of his actions, what he did was a minor act compared to a "blessed" child who has been told from birth and so has no excuses! As you could probably imagine, holding these beliefs has made me very scared and confused about sexuality in my earlier days, especially about confusing issues such as dreams where one has sex...
My muscles were all flabby and underused, which reflected in my mind and I became really lazy, irrational, paranoid and self destroying with denial and lies to myself. I know everyone is messed up here, and I'm not saying that I had it worse than anyone else, but I had enough of myself.
The most severe problem I had was my bowls, (hope nobody is eating at this point) I had diarrhoea everyday, my lungs were terrible, some nights I thought I was going to die, virtually every organ that could go wrong, went wrong.
But I discounted all that, I didn't want to face up to the state of my health, I was only concerned with my mental state, I had since being young always wanted to do something I could be proud of, something that could help humanity in some way, so it was rather distressing that I couldn't motivate myself to DO anything or think anything constructive. I wanted to start reading, but even my ability to read was terribly slow, even applying what I read was a hopeless endeavour, my memory was crap and I only saw what I wanted to see. If I read something that appealed to my emotional state, I would put heavy emphasis on that one thing, discarding the rest, which took the whole meaning out of context. I still do that in fact, so I have no reason to trust that I'll understand the meaning of what I read anyway. NOT the makings of a good researcher basically. Yet I persisted, I wanted to be knowledgeable about my interests, I had some pretty deep questions I wanted answering, why are we here? Is there a God? But what could I do when my mind was in a complete state of constant confusion and disarray I felt powerless to control?
At the time I didn't think that the state of my health had anything to do with the state of my mind, but I came across New Energy Ways, which changed everything. I realised that the state of your body has EVERYTHING to do with the state of your mind, I didn't want to lie to myself anymore, so I started facing the words my body had been trying to say and started Qi Gong to increase the amount of Qi I had flowing through my body, I figured that a healthy and balanced mind, a condition where one is actually capable of working on oneself and helping others was only possible from a healthy body in the first place. By the way, I went to a doctor to have my various problems sorted out many times, but they never looked deeply into it and always told me I just had to alter my diet slightly or get more sleep, nothing useful whatsoever, I took the doctors advise and nothing worked. I told a few people of my problems and they said that I shouldn't be getting these problems until MUCH later in life, how do I put my mind in good use if I am constantly stressed and emotionally, mentally and physically unbalanced? For example, when my bowl problem was really bad, I couldn't get any sleep because of the pain, without sleep, how do I read, draw or do ANYTHING for that matter? Now that I've healed my guts and I'm not constantly in stress and worry over it, can I not help myself and help others better?
Since I started New Energy Ways I've been slowly but surely building momentum, working on the body and experimenting with different exercises to observing the results, basically, if I feel a pain somewhere, that's the body saying something, that's a problem that I can respond to and correct, provided I have the adequate knowledge at my disposal, the result of which is a bit more understanding of my body, how it works and how it affects the rest of my body. To answer your question anart, I don't think thousands of year's worth of study will make it less STS; I have just never come across such a comprehensive and complete understanding of this study of self healing and energy circuitry as traditional Chinese medicine. I don't have the answers either, but after years of observing and responding to these circuits I can pretty much confirm that it's real. Now, I've asked myself this question over and over, what's real? And the conclusion I've come down to is the idea that my body is "real", when I stimulate my energy and I find pain or tension, that's real, when I learn about how the meridians link and I stimulate one part of myself and find that another part feels better or has more Qi flowing through it, that's real, it's happening. I don't hold expectations as to what might happen, in a way, I'm not even making it happen, I'm just stimulating areas, finding the correlations, and finding that the information I come across about acupuncture (so far) to be correct.
As to the affects the overall increase in Qi flow has had on my ability to think, I can't really tell, how can I be truly objective about such a thing? I could've gone to perform IQ tests regularly and brain scans to see if indeed my mind IS becoming sharper, but I didn't have access to such investigations, and there are too many factors that might cause changes in brain patterns that I couldn't possibly take into account.
All I know is that I seem to be able to read faster, comprehend more from reading, use better ways of explaining myself to others, along with ALL other ways the mind "expresses" itself, and I've observed that there seems to be a correlation between my mind performing in a more natural manner as my body becomes more relaxed and strong. What is this correlation? Further investigation may tell, and the fact is, it's like a puzzle I love piecing together.
Is that the "serpent" power becoming awakened in me and only anchors me deeper into STS reality? Well, I'm not willing to discount that possibility, but that's a question I have no real means to investigate, if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to such insights.
But the way I'm looking at it at the moment is this, the more I learn about energy development, the easier it is to recognise what kind of state my body is in, for example, when I first looked at your post, my chest started having more energy as anxiety and nervousness set in, I observed this and quickly realised that I am obviously attached to my "work" and was nervous that all that investment would be questioned and put under scrutiny, and I fear some new information will come out that will make my whole dedication to this subject worth nothing. Extra energy in the chest isn't a good sign, and it's my current hypothesis that the energy is being used up in negative emotional states. First, I went and performed some exercises that I learned could be good for balance the energy again, afterwards when I felt much calmer and less erratic I then went about observing my thoughts to determine where this programme comes from. After analysis from a more rational perspective I then set out and tried to respond to you, if I didn't respond to this observation, I would have responded to you in a much more emotional state of mind, and would have probably caused me to write down things I might later realise didn't get my meaning across at all.
I wouldn't have noticed this if I didn't start working on energy, I wouldn't have learned about that particular little I if I didn't learn about teachings in the forth way AS WELL as Qi gong.

Anart said:
the system and all those who inhabit it are by default STS - this 'coiled serpent' is supposedly lying 'dormant' until people learn to activate it more fully - perhaps, until people activate it fully, that STS power is lying dormant - perhaps not - but - the fact that it is referred to as a 'coiled serpent' until it awakens should, at the very least, give anyone who is aware of the symbolic reality we live in, cause to consider the source of not only the 'system', but the 'serpent' itself.
That's a fair point, but keep in mind that the people who discovered and studied this "science/art" were ignorant of the work presented on this website, but maybe they associated the Kundalini with serpents because it was originally the Lizzies that gave humans access to such technologies? They could be forgiven to have thought the serpent power was desirable since it was an incomprehensible power, as demonstrated in Chinese thinking as they believe the Dragon is the source of good fortune. In another post there was this:

C's 010820 wrote:
Q: Was the Yellow Emperor of China... he had some talking, walking tripods. Were these things similar to
the Ark of the Covenant?
A: No.
Q: What were his tripods?
A: Ground communicators.
Q: What did they communicate with? Each other or something in the sky?
A: Both.
Q: What was in the sky that they communicated with?
A: Mothership.
Q: What was on the Mothership?
A: Lizards.
novelis said:
I've read a little about the legend of the yellow emperor, heard that when he died, he flew off riding on the back of a dragon... I wonder, is the information he "discovered" simply from the lizards and designed to perpetuate their rule? The Chinese have always had a deep reverence for the dragon, so I wonder sometimes if manifestations of Chinese esoteric thought like the Tao Te Ching and even Tai chi are simply methods for 4d STS graduation. If that's the case, then wouldn't it be best to stay away from these ideas?
Right now my hypothesis is that your body does work in a certain way, and that knowledge of how it works can protect you against harmful influences and illnesses. But to find out about how it works, one has to dig through knowledge discovered in a time when human beings were in an entirely different paradigm and weren't ready to learn about the information presented in Cassiopaea.org, so of course the people of the past would have seen the "dragon force" as a ruling power that they can't get close to understanding or being free from, the zymology might just reflect the perspective of the people who studied this subject in the past, so I think it would be daft to reject these ideas instead of approaching them with caution and diligence, just as one should approach ALL subjects.
Anart said:
the system and all those who inhabit it are by default STS - this 'coiled serpent' is supposedly lying 'dormant' until people learn to activate it more fully - perhaps, until people activate it fully, that STS power is lying dormant - perhaps not - but - the fact that it is referred to as a 'coiled serpent' until it awakens should, at the very least, give anyone who is aware of the symbolic reality we live in, cause to consider the source of not only the 'system', but the 'serpent' itself.
Anart said:
Are you really that attached to the concept of the development of Kundalini energy that it makes you uncomfortable to consider that it may be a wholly STS endeavour? I don't have any answers - it may not, in fact, be a wholly STS endeavor - but I cannot disregard the implications that a complete anchoring into this STS world by the activation of this 'coiled serpent' is ultimately the point of this type of focus.
The wave said:
Q: I have this book, this Marcia Schafer thing: "Confessions of an Intergalactic Anthropologist," and its a bunch of channelled stuff; one thing she says: "the snake is associated with the sign of wisdom and higher learning, and is often regarded quite highly in mystical circles." I would like to have a comment on the idea of the snake as a "sign of wisdom and higher learning" as many people believe and teach nowadays, though the serpent is presented as the evil Tempter in older texts.
A: Snake is/was reported in context of the viewpoint of the observer. Maybe the observer was just "blown away" by the experience. If you were living in the desert, or jungle, about 7,000 years ago, as you measure time, would you not be impressed if these Reptoid "dudes" came down from the heavens in silvery objects and demonstrated techno-wonders from thousands of years in the future, and taught you calculus, geometry and astrophysics to boot?!?
Q: Is that, in fact, what happened?
A: Yup.
The Lizzies were seen as Gods because they brought knowledge from the future including geometry and astrophysics, so does that mean that we should avoid these subjects too? There is nothing wrong with Geometry, it's what someone does with that knowledge that counts, and I think it's the same with Qi Gong/Kundalini energy.
In this particular time, in this particular paradigm, we CAN learn to understand the way these forces work like never before and decide to separate ourselves from their system of control, since we are getting ready for graduation. Surely if one keeps learning about the work on this site and try their best to apply the knowledge, it's then up to the individual how much they want to take from these ancient sciences, one doesn't have to accept everything in this subject, especially keeping in mind the context from which these works come from. I think its knowledge nonetheless and still has relevance in today's society, since the way our bodies work hasn't changed since those times.
novelis said:
The study of the body's natural meridians is the medical science of the east, as far as I can see, and is a legacy of a science that's worth thousands of years, is all that investigation and study devoted to this VAST subject worth nothing? I don't see why it can't be studied scientifically, it has as much worth of study and is founded on as much, if not more ground as western medical science, acupuncturists are simply doctors who have learned the know-how of a medical science not known very well and still seen as "superstition" by some in the west. Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers.
anart said:
This discussion has nothing to do with 'superstition' - you've been around long enough to know that.
I'm afraid I don't understand where you are coming from with this comment, from the line "and still seen as superstition by some in the west" I was only stating this fact to outline the reluctance by some western people towards understanding this subject, I apologise because including this wasn't wholly relevant, I just wanted to stick it in as a separate point, and it is an entirely different point being made compared to the comment preceding it about how acupuncturists are simply doctors. Forgive my tendency to sometimes jump from one line of thinking to another without much of an apparent connection. You say that you understand the value of energy based medicine, so do you see any truth in it? Do you think there is anything to this study? In fact, the west is starting to give this study serious though as a result of its success in treating patients.
Check out this site:
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/#work
Does acupuncture work?
According to the NIH Consensus Statement on Acupuncture, there have been many studies on acupuncture's potential usefulness, but results have been mixed because of complexities with study design and size, as well as difficulties with choosing and using placebos or sham acupuncture. However, promising results have emerged, showing efficacy of acupuncture, for example, in adult postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations--such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low-back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma--in which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program. An NCCAM-funded study recently showed that acupuncture provides pain relief, improves function for people with osteoarthritis of the knee, and serves as an effective complement to standard care.7 Further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.8
NIH has funded a variety of research projects on acupuncture. These grants have been funded by NCCAM, its predecessor the Office of Alternative Medicine, and other NIH institutes and centers.
Visit the NCCAM Web site, or call the NCCAM Clearinghouse for more information on scientific findings about acupuncture.
Read the NIH Consensus Statement on Acupuncture, to learn what scientific experts have said about the use and effectiveness of acupuncture for a variety of conditions.
It's unclear whether or not it truly works, but there has been some good evidence to suggest that it does. If you are open to evidence suggesting this treatment works, then is knowing about how it works knowledge? If one approaches the study with an open mind and constantly accounting for the information from this site (I am referring to the work of Cassiopaea in it's entirety) I don't think it would be so easy for fall into traps as long as one is cautious and doesn't just go into it blindly.
I apologise for my convoluted writing and my repetitions, I am not the best writer, I hope that everything is clear, I've tried to answer your questions as best as I can, so if there is anything unclear or you feel that I'm avoiding things or misunderstanding you, please let me know. Now, if you'll excuse me, my back is hurting from sitting here, I'm off to do some Qi gong... ;)
 

Bricktal

The Force is Strong With This One
Kundalini


Esoteric teaching on this word varies greatly from source to source.

All sources agree that this is a sort of force or effect that is localized at the base of the spine and can be activated either spontaneously or through deliberate exercises. Kundalini is said to rise from the first chakra, along the spine, possibly all the way to the crown chakra. It is sometimes compared to a serpent that lies coiled at the base of the spine. Awakening this serpent is claimed to bring great powers and benefits.

Gurdjieff's view on the matter differs from most sources. He agrees that such a thing exists but teaches that it is the source of false imaginings, an actual bane of man, the remnant of the ill-famed 'organ kundabuffer' which is discussed extensively in Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson. Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.

The kundalini is often compared to a serpent, maybe because of the undulating sensation that can be felt along the spine when doing certain exercises. Mouravieff writes that this is what the serpent of Genesis actually represents.

Can someone explain to me here where I can see or read if this guy Gurdjieff had ever done or tested or even experienced this energy, this kundalini in himself before condamn it so badly.

He says: has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician... woww what a thought here. What a research i am astonishly baffle by this guy.

Sure i will read one of his book if i can find one translated in french if ever and if not in english. I will read on before saying further more but even then..

But do I have to remind you, readers of this forum that this guy do not hold the truth or all the human wisdom for that matter.

The kundalini experience serve to others purposes and not only to hypnotized peoples or to gain special powers over the others or self.
I can talk or speak of it...as i went thru it in 2008. So I speak by experience... if someone can give me a quote of Gurdjieff where he speak of his own experiences of it, i would gladly read it.

As for the definition given in the esoteric dictionary... of the kundalini as to refer only the gurdjieff says about it is not quite right. Will not throw the baby with the water here, but he must convince me of the contrary or what he can prove in his teachings or anyone else if anyone interrested.

Bricktal
 

anart

The Living Force
Bricktal said:
Can someone explain to me here where I can see or read if this guy Gurdjieff had ever done or tested or even experienced this energy, this kundalini in himself before condamn it so badly.

He says: has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician... woww what a thought here. What a research i am astonishly baffle by this guy.

Sure i will read one of his book if i can find one translated in french if ever and if not in english. I will read on before saying further more but even then..
It is my understanding that all of his books are available in French.

b said:
But do I have to remind you, readers of this forum that this guy do not hold the truth or all the human wisdom for that matter.
This is not true. Perhaps you should actually read his work before deciding such a thing - especially when it is not true. Considering that this forum is, in part, based on the work of Gurdjieff, perhaps this forum is not for you?

b said:
The kundalini experience serve to others purposes and not only to hypnotized peoples or to gain special powers over the others or self.
I can talk or speak of it...as i went thru it in 2008. So I speak by experience... if someone can give me a quote of Gurdjieff where he speak of his own experiences of it, i would gladly read it.
Read his work. The 'kundalini' energy is the energy that keeps man trapped in sleep - it is the core of illusion, the depth of sleep and that which traps man into believing he is free when he is merely food.

b said:
As for the definition given in the esoteric dictionary... of the kundalini as to refer only the gurdjieff says about it is not quite right. Will not throw the baby with the water here, but he must convince me of the contrary or what he can prove in his teachings or anyone else if anyone interrested.
He must convince you of nothing. You must read and learn and research and, only then, can you discuss this with any relevance.
 

StrangeCaptain

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
It is only anecdotal, but every person I have ever met who said they had a kundalini experience was someone whose personal life was a wreck. The most extreme examples were folks who held on desperately to these fleeting moments of kundalini experience while their lives degenerated at an an increasingly rapid rate. I think we could broaden this "kundalini" idea to encompass all of the energy manipulation/channeling/perceiving practices of the new age. It is a bunch of fluff that makes people think they are doing something special when all they have really done is dressed up their old habits in new clothes.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Patience said:
It is only anecdotal, but every person I have ever met who said they had a kundalini experience was someone whose personal life was a wreck. The most extreme examples were folks who held on desperately to these fleeting moments of kundalini experience while their lives degenerated at an an increasingly rapid rate. I think we could broaden this "kundalini" idea to encompass all of the energy manipulation/channeling/perceiving practices of the new age. It is a bunch of fluff that makes people think they are doing something special when all they have really done is dressed up their old habits in new clothes.
I think that's the crux of the matter. It's the same with breathing exercises, and what I think is the reason G was so adamant that they were a bad idea. Except for a small number, everyone I've met who says they've done breathing exercises (whether in yoga or some other modality) can't breathe correctly! They aren't even aware that they're chest-breathers. Basically, they're trying to do fourth-grade math (actually, believing they are doing it), when in fact they don't even have the fundamentals of grades one and two. Same thing with kundalini. Gurdjieff mentioned it in one of his Paris talks in a basically neutral context (saying it was necessary to do an exercise getting acquainted with the sensation of kundalini). So his thoughts on the matter (as with breathing exercises, which he actually taught to pupils) weren't black and white. But for every person who knows what they're doing and doesn't get caught up in fantasy, wishful thinking, and believing they're something more than they are, there are thousands who do all those things. And the result is what both Chittick/Ibn-Arabi and Gurdjieff talk about. In Gurdjieff's words, they become candidates for insane asylum.
 

dannybananny

Jedi Council Member
I can talk or speak of it...as i went thru it in 2008.
How do you know it was it or that what they said about it is true?

He says: has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician... woww what a thought here. What a research i am astonishly baffle by this guy.
For this you don't need research. Just look at yourself in mirror and look at people around yourself. Everyone thinks he is free, that he can do everything they want, that they are in control of themselves, but try to hit some of their sacred cows or say to them something not nice and you see how much control do they really have.

As for the definition given in the esoteric dictionary... of the kundalini as to refer only the gurdjieff says about it is not quite right. Will not throw the baby with the water here, but he must convince me of the contrary or what he can prove in his teachings or anyone else if anyone interrested.
Like said this isn't research, this is work on yourself, and if you try it you'll see that his words are true. Can you control your thoughts, emotions, movements when ever you want and how you want? If not you're not in control of yourself, they are.
 
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