What never ceases to amaze me is the fact that most of the so-called 9-11 "Truth" people don't seem to have a real clue about how the perpetrators of such a crime as 9-11 would manage the "information flow" so as to "get away" with it. After all, we are talking about crime on a global scale, conscienceless criminals, and unlimited resources being put to work to keep the masses complacent. Hmmm... ya'll really ought to read "In Broad Day Light" by Harry M. Maclean (ISBN 0-440-20509-3) to get a microcosm of how the system works. It would also help everyone to read Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed. Without sufficient data, everyone is truly helpless against such a monster as psychopaths and Pathocrats.
There are so many examples in our history that anyone who availed themselves of this information would easily be able to see that there is NO "9-11 Truth Movement," that it is - and was from its inception - a counter-intellligence psy-op. That includes nearly EVERYONE involved and includes the releasing of data and clues that are both true and false
So, if you start out knowing, without a doubt, that a counter-intelligence operation is going to be planned and run parallel with the crime, then you start out looking at EVERYONE with suspicion - which is really the only proper approach.
Thorn and Lisa are among the very few who are really trying to do this as far as I can tell. I have learned, by hard experience, to do "due diligence" as far as is possible, in my interactions with anyone new. As a result of our work in psychopathy, our work and experience with online groups, Ark's 30 years as an educator, and my experience as a hypnotherapist, we have a pretty good idea of how to tell if a person is sincere or not.
In recent months, I have had an opportunity to interact with quite a number of the so-called "9-11 Experts" (as many of them present themselves to be) and everything I have written above was confirmed: nearly ALL of them are part of the cover-up; you can take that to the bank. There are, of course, sincere truth-seekers in the bunch, but for the most part, even those are rendered ineffective and impotent by clever management by "handlers" and agents provocateur, etc. I would say that Nimmo probably falls in this latter category. He is well-meaning and sincere, but he is way out of his depth. You could say that, for someone as paranoid as he is, he sure misses the big banana on this one.
The fact is, wherever there is a possibility of gaining prestige, or power, or a way to make money without really working, that is where you are going to find psychological deviants including psychopaths. So, even if there were NOT a planned, parallel psy-op in place, that factor alone would render the "9-11 Truth" crowd highly suspect. More than that, the psychopath - in his many variations - is the kind of individual who can give everyone the right impression; they can construct a facade for every purpose, they can look and sound like the real thing, but behind this mask of sanity is a liar, a deceiver and a manipulator.
In any milieu where they "move in", they carefully and manipulatively build up a power base and very soon, any movement is going exactly where THEY want it to go.
The ways and means that these kinds of things are accomplished are described in great detail in Political Ponerology. I offered free copies of Ponerology to almost everyone in the entire 9-11 Truth Movement. I mean FREE. No cost, not even for shipping. And it was carefully explained that this book would help them to understand how their organizations, their movement, could so easily be taken over by agents and vectored so that nothing positive would ever happen.
You want to know how many people asked for a copy?
Besides Victor and Lisa, there were only 2 - yes TWO. Out of something like 100 people or so.
Now, the funny thing about this is that, some months back, before Ponerology was actually published, while we were still getting it ready, I sent copies of the original MS to both Kurt Nimmo and John Kaminski. Nimmo wrote back to me about it:
I don't know what to tell you about the COINTELPRO angle inside the
truth movement. We know such things exist. And they have since I first
became active during the Vietnam War. In fact, I was a direct victim of such
agent provocateur behavior in 1970. Later, a woman I knew told me (she was
drunk) that she was contracted by the FBI to keep an eye on me. I don't know
why she would admit this, or if she was telling a lie. These sort of people
will always be around and there is really not much that can be done about
it. Others are simply crazy, I believe, and yet others put forward bizarre
theories that make all of us out to be nuts. Thankfully, we have the
internet and do not rely on face-to-face communication and organizations, so
easy to subvert....
I believe forums and face-to-face organizations contribute to the spread (like an infection) of
crazy ideas and pathology. I figure if I am sort of like a hermit or monk, I
can avoid the infection. Conversely, people can avoid my disease as well. I
realize none of this is conducive to making this a better society and
planet. I guess people can take what I offer - an often odd discourse, if
occasionally spot on - and leave the rest.
Kaminski was unable to finish the book. I later asked him about Controversy of Zion and he gave it high ratings, but then I realized that he hadn't read it either (or had only read bits and pieces.)
It has only been recently that I have begun to realize that it is only when one is working with groups - with people - directly, and over a long period of time, and with the intention of actually trying to do something positive, that the insights given in Ponerology actually take on their proper significance. I suspect that Kaminski, like Nimmo and so many others are just like "hermits or monks" who offer their own opinion now and again, which may or may not be "spot on" and do not really have any capacity to really care in a profound way about our reality, about humanity, and what is taking place on the planet as a result of 9-11. Certainly, if they did, they would get over themselves and try to figure out how to work WITH people in an effective way in order to actually accomplish something. And the first step to doing that is to learn how to weed out the deviant elements so that the objectives of any group can be achieved.
They are not interested in any real humanitarian objectives being achieved. Almost none of them are. They are just riding this bronco for as long as they can stay in the saddle, and having their 5 minutes of fame and making a few bux (most of them.) Meanwhile, they are narcissistically patting themselves on the back about what good people they are, what good writers they are, how much attention they can get, the idea of actually being effective - of DOing - be damned.
And that's just the well-meaning, but psychologically impotent ones.
The REAL "agents" are another story altogether, and they are masters of managing the well-meaning types. They go to special schools to learn these things. Everyone of the well-meaning types has a profile in some computer somewhere, and there are standard ways of manipulating them. Of that you may be sure. You don't think that the corporations that run the government spend all that money on psychologists and psychiatrists and detailed surveys of attitudes and so on to not USE that information, do you? And if anyone thinks that, alone, they can out-think them - with their unlimited resources and special knowledge of the psychology of the normal human (who they have more or less created anyway over the last 50 years via the education system and media control) - you had better think again.
It's really pitiful and pathetic. So few people in the so-called 9-11 movement really have a handle on what is going on; Lisa and Thorn are among them, and their grasp of it is increasing everyday, and Dave McGowan has to be counted among them also. Sorry, I have fingers left over on my hand...
Sure, there are more of them that are well-meaning - I think Prof. Steven Jones is one of them, Kurt Nimmo is one of them - and a couple others, but the vast majority of the 9-11 "Truth" folks are AGENTS OF DISINFORMATION.
You can take that to the bank.
Having said all of that, I think it was a bit doctrinaire to make the discussion a Jewish issue; it isn't. It's an issue of cointelpro and deviants in power whatever their religion, color or ethnicity.
We don't need to make things "black or white," that's counterproductive, but all the issues Lisa and Thorn brought up about Abrahamson's ideas are on the money.