Laura's Book "From Paul to Mark" is out!!!!

luc

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One thing I have been thinking about is what (I think) the experience of reading FPTM has taught me "by osmosis" so to speak: it is just so incredibly hard to stay on track when you want to find out something about something complex. It is so easy to fall into emotional thinking, looking for "quick fixes", thinking you know an answer already and so on. And it won't do to just accuse those "asleep" of following authorities or the mainstream. It is just as hard and dangerous in "alternative land".

If you want a chance you must really, REALLY want to know the truth. And Laura showcases this so brilliantly in her book. Never ever does she make a claim that is not backed up by either facts or meticulous, coherent thinking processes. Never ever does she allow herself to jump to conclusions, suffering the glorious consequences of taking seriously even the worst kind of research in the hope that some small puzzle piece might be in there, or some inspiration to look into a new direction. Never dismissing anything out of hand.

Keeping our emotional triggers at bay is crucial for getting to the bottom of things. Just because someone tells a lot of demonstrable nonsense or uses something for nefarious purposes doesn't mean that there is not something true in there. Just because you don't like a certain theory, a certain person, or a certain "school" - especially if it is for good reasons! - this doesn't give you permission to dismiss it or automatically assume the opposite must be true.

We all have our assumptions and "things we think we know". Often for good reasons. But that can not be an excuse to take shortcuts.

Going about it like that is brutal, because it brings us face to face with the fact that we actually know so little, and a lot of what we think we know we just got from others, or established as fact because of emotional thinking, identification, laziness or to avoid really difficult stuff. Realizing that is true humility.

To use some examples from Covid land where I felt this pull of "taking shortcuts": just because so much fear-mongering is going on doesn't mean that Covid is "just the flu" and there can't be serious issues with it. Just because of all the abuse and profiteering connected to vaccines doesn't mean that vaccines are all-bad. Just because Science has been guilty of peddling nonsense about viruses doesn't mean they don't exist or that virologists don't do valid research. Etc. etc. Now, what if I REALLY wanted to answer one of those questions, say whether a Tetanus vaccine is actually a good idea, and if so for whom? I would have to go on a major research spree, looking in detail at the raw data of tons of studies, learn a bunch about research methodology and the black hole called statistics, possibly sociological issues, questioning the validity of all the research I find to establish which is actually accurate or what parts of it anyway, learn about the biographies of famous researchers and their possible conflicts of interest, learn how those vaccines work anyway and their history, read a bunch of microbiology textbooks and the critics of said textbooks, look at the "vaccine-critical" side in detail and what they came up with and what they got right or wrong... What I cannot do is read the next best "critic" or "pro-vax study" or article or book and be done with it. What I cannot do is dismiss the arguments of what I "feel" to be the "wrong side". You get the point.

Reading FTPM really has brought home that point to me perhaps for the first time - because it shows the process. It boils down to the question: do we just want to play around? Or do we really WANT to get to the bottom of things?
 

Aeneas

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SeekinTruth, Harmony99, Aeneas, Luc, I sure hope you post something like you wrote here as a review on amazon. And thank you.
Done. It is truly the very least we can do to promote the book on which you have clearly spent decades pulling the threads together. I found especially in the last half of the book that it gave a sense of relief and hope to read a few pages at the end of the day, after having looked on the world situation on the net. Regarding Amazon, then I am not sure if it has to be copied on all Amazon platforms or whether that will be done by Amazon automatically. So far only put up on the German Amazon and I will wait a few days until it approved to see whether it appears on the other 'sister' sites too.
 

Redrock12

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What an incredible amount of work you have put into FPTM Laura. I have never put so much mental effort and discipline into reading any book like I have this one. I had to literally force myself to bear down and concentrate my attention solely on the text and not let my mind wander, in order to hold together what I was reading. The sheer amount of footnotes and references, as well as the extensive bibliography, the research you must have done, in order to get across your ideas, was surely a Promethean task.

In short, WOW, what an accomplishment! I believe you have made history with this tome. Anyone seriously and objectively reading this work will no longer be able to view Christianity within the traditional framework or belief system. Imo you've killed a whole lot of sacred cows here.
 
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Aeneas

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What I cannot do is dismiss the arguments of what I "feel" to be the "wrong side". You get the point
Yes, it is very true what you write, Luc. In that connection there is also the point which Laura demonstrates in FPTM, namely that sometimes there is a much simpler explanation to problems than the mental gymnastics which some have done due to wanting to fit the square peg into the round hole. In your analogy with the covid vaccine or tetanus for that matter, the question to consider apart from all the others is whether there exist a much simpler way to combat the virus such as ivermectin, hydroxychloroquin, Vit D, zinc and strengthening the immune system etc.
 

Laura

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Done. It is truly the very least we can do to promote the book on which you have clearly spent decades pulling the threads together. I found especially in the last half of the book that it gave a sense of relief and hope to read a few pages at the end of the day, after having looked on the world situation on the net. Regarding Amazon, then I am not sure if it has to be copied on all Amazon platforms or whether that will be done by Amazon automatically. So far only put up on the German Amazon and I will wait a few days until it approved to see whether it appears on the other 'sister' sites too.

Thank you so much.

It would probably be a good idea for all reviews to be replicated on amazon.com because it seems that is the source of many reviews that get populated to other amazon platforms.
 

luc

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Thank you so much.

It would probably be a good idea for all reviews to be replicated on amazon.com because it seems that is the source of many reviews that get populated to other amazon platforms.

I have submitted my review as well. Tried to put it on Amazon.com, but you need a minimum of 50$ spent on the platform before you can submit a review. Since you normally don't order there if you're not in the US, this makes it difficult.

However, it seems that reviews from other countries are displayed on Amazon.com as well these days (and vice-versa), at least for me (using a French/German account). So I put my review on German amazon (in English), might be useful for some of the German theologians/Bible scholars too.
 

Mari

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I finished the book yesterday.

I´ve written down notes as I was reading it, trying to have some overview for later, but I think that they doesn´t matter now.

The book broke my heart. And I´ll try to explain why.

Reading C´s material and research in this forum, I had no illusions about Jesus not being the real person or the person as displayed in NT.
I also had no illusions about the Bible - it being corrupted, edited and made up.

You must understand that I started this book as a complete newbie in biblical studies - I´ve never read anything in this genre.
I WAS stunned by the level of editing, manipulations and fabrications, and thank you, Laura, for your extremely hard and important work you have done here.
This book is a masterpiece and a real detective story in debugging the NT.

I think it is great that you´ve given an overview of who-is-who in the beginning and also background and of the religious/spiritual world at that time, as well on the events at that time - that helped me A LOT when reading the book to understand exactly which fraction you were talking about and where did some ideas come from.
When I was reading, there were parts where I thought "was this really REALLY that important?" - a few pages later it turned out, of course, it was and I was stunned over and over again about the method and the depth of this research (and ashamed of distrust in your ways :-[).
This book requires another and another re-reading, to fully pick all of the threads of misdirection and deception.

Reading about Paul´s mission and spirituality, one cannot fail to draw parallels to our Work.
Astonishing how we (mankind) got from THAT version of spirituality to what we have today.

I was also stunned when reading about the sources of Mark and an allegory of his story.
I learned in my religion classes how Jesus talked in allegories - well, not much surprise that the whole story was an allegory.
But how clever it was!!!! And the roots of the story! I had no idea!


In the end, what in fact broke my heart was - the final chapters on Caesar.
After I´ve read about the life and deeds of Caesar as a person and a leader, and when I realized the depth and meaning of his life and work, by the time I've read the final lines I started to cry.
I cried for Caesar.
For his life and his work and his betrayal.
For all that was lost to us.
For all those lost people out there.
...

The book left me with deep sadness on so many levels, that I have no words yet to describe.

Then I went and I read the session with Caesar again - and then I cried even more.
That was when his words and his life sinked in and when I understood the deep sorrow he felt for humankind and why he felt so alone.
Even thinking and writing about this now waters my eyes.

He was truly a Man.


Thank you, Laura, from the bottom of my hearth for this Book! :flowers:
It was an amazing journey and I´m looking forward to read your book on Caesar! Can´t wait!
 

Laura

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Thanks, Mari. Writing this book broke my heart too, and I mean more than just the sheer, unmitigated labor of the task. I gathered everything I could, considered all of it, and the end result is what you find in the book and it really hurt to see how blind we have all been made, blind to a stunning reality that could have inspired true spirituality and understanding.

Just curious: what did you find that you thought was meaningless only to find out it was not?
 

Mari

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Just curious: what did you find that you thought was meaningless only to find out it was not?
Well, Paulina/Fluvia story was one of the main things; it starts in 4th chapter, and I wondered: OK, so she was Caeser supporter and... what?
And than basically has a conclusion on 8th chapter where you can see her great influence and that there is a good possibility that she is one of the authors or orchestrators of Mark gospel! Which is also a huge relevation, if I understood this correctly.

Then there were all of these accounts of comparing Josephus´ Wars and Antiquities (that really took stamina to go trought ;-) ).
That part showed how careful one has to be in taking Josephus' writings (or anyone writings at that time) as fact and I think is very important part of the book - it shows the reader that people simply have agendas and that is important thing that MUST must be taken into consideration for anyone who is doing serious research.

I also wondered if the Roman centurion who saw Jesus as Son of God was also a direct reference to Caesar...


I´m going now trough this thread to see how other saw the book and, yes, I have to add that I also feel great relief after reading the book.
Sad but really satisfied and content.

Thank you! 😊
 

Mike

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I finished Laura’s book last night. Thank you Laura!

I have a decent number of thoughts and notes, similar to what Mari mentioned above, that I made in the book when reading. But I would like to read Paul and Mark and some other things before making any kind of comment related to my notes.

Besides the general comments below, I was very taken aback about the information near the very end of Laura’s book that basically detailed in my eyes that if it wasn’t for Marcion that Paul’s letters and Mark might have been disappeared and not reached us in the here and now and the NT would pretty much have started with and at Matthew. And then where would we have been in terms of what Laura has pieced together through who knows how many hours of reading and thought from the little information that is available? It is like in my mind that some kind of ‘battle’ was fought and won to a degree back then to even allow us to have Paul and Mark now. And it could have been very a close call. And perhaps this was one ‘battle’ within the wider ‘war’, which in our time seems to be coming to head.

It IS startling just how much has been lost, modified, edited, and added to in relation to the topic. Very little information about Paul and the start of Christianity, very little information overall (and first hand writings, speeches, etc by Caesar) about Caesar for such a giant of an individual, and very little primary information that survived from and about the Stoics (from my reading one of the recommended books on Stoicism)…

It is almost like you can see the shadow of a very long acting and forward thinking ‘hidden hand’ at work trying to suppress any knowledge of such things from making it to this time.

AND considering the recent C’s session about approximately 500 years being added not too long after Caesar and then Paul, I’m left wondering what that means and how that relates to the first three centuries of Christianity and really everything since the 500 years were added.

I’m like – Laura did do a truly Herculean effort with her book in researching and piecing together the information and clues that are available to be used, but how much of the information that IS available is not dated properly or even created, edited, and modified over 1500 years to give the fake reality that people have been living under up to now, such as with what people believe in terms of Christianity and early Christianity, BUT really almost any topic from 1500 years ago to present. It is like a feeling of being adrift to some degree that may be similar to not knowing one’s own family history and being lost a bit in the present because of that.

Thank God for Laura’s research, efforts, C’s experiment, creating this forum, and writings, such as with this book and ‘Secret History of the World’, etc. Would we even know that we are adrift to some degree without all of that and even have some understanding of just how little is actually known about the actual history of mankind, mankind itself, and reality? In my opinion, it is a blessing to have what we have. It is also my opinion that it is a blessing that through the centuries that there have been people who have cared about the truth and dedicated time toward seeking it to preserve and transmit information and ideas to the present period.

Here is the general comment I mentioned above that I wrote when I was nearly finished with the book (after a few additions and modifications now):

Laura has put forward an immense effort both in research and thought with this book to knock on and open the door ajar and then as wide as possible. We may only right now see to some degree what can be pieced together to know and also what we don’t know, but that in itself in my opinion is invaluable. And that is an understatement.

We can ourselves make the lesser effort and choice to stand in part on her shoulders on our own journey of seeking and pursing the truth and move toward the door and then walk through that door ourselves.

And when through the door to have the possibility and capability to understand and imagine a ‘new world’ and new reality which can come from seeing, perceiving, living, being, and existing with a new perspective and the natural actions taken and way of interacting with reality that comes about in relation to having and expressing this new perspective. Actions and influence from interactions that can be multiplied in magnitudes as the those that decide to start the journey toward the door and this ‘new world’ multiply.

These are grand, bold, and weighty statements to make, but I think this book and such possibilities that are related to Laura’s thoughts given in the book provide such an opportunity to the world and mankind and especially to those seeking to find, those asking to receive, those giving when asked, and those trying to understand and trying to find ‘God’, Paul, and Jesus.
 

Mari

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It IS startling just how much has been lost, modified, edited, and added to in relation to the topic. Very little information about Paul and the start of Christianity, very little information overall (and first hand writings, speeches, etc by Caesar) about Caesar for such a giant of an individual, and very little primary information that survived from and about the Stoics (from my reading one of the recommended books on Stoicism)…

Yes! Like Laura says in the book:
At the same time, there is an actual historical figure missing his cult while a major religion is missing its actual historical figure.
 

goyacobol

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One conversation I think is worth having, now that I've read the book, is whether the term 'Paleochristianity' is really worth adopting.

Since it were the C's who first introduced this term for their own reasons it might be wise to ask them for a further explanation of those and possibly also for any suggestions of a better term, if any.

@Palinurus, I think you are right on the money.

In the following session where this first occurs they also define what PaleoChristianity means:

Session 30 May 2009:
Q: (J) Is swine flu going to make a comeback this winter?

A: Sure. They are working on drastic reduction of the population before climate change goes too far. Can't have all those starving people after their heads now can they?

Q: (J) I wonder if it's going to affect us?

A: With your diet?!?! Toxicity makes many more susceptible than during other pandemics. Why else do you think that such toxicity is allowed and even encouraged?

Q: (L) What's next?

A: How about "Paleochristianity"?

Q: (laughter) (L) Well since you brought it up... (J) You should respond with, "Now that's an interesting question!" (laughter) (L) What do you mean by Paleochristianity? (laughter) (L) Would you define Paleochristianity for us?

A: The knowledge of realms that all men comprehended before the "fall".

Q: (L) Why is it called Christianity? Isn't Christianity strictly related to Christianity as we know it?

A: Oh no! The word was co-opted and everything you know of as Christianity is distorted. For example, the earliest "Christ" was a woman.


Q: (L) Okay. Were the Bogomils and the Cathars - as I have surmised - close to understanding this original reality?

A: They had some very close approximations, but they were still influenced by many of the distorted religious ideas of the time.

Q: (L) Okay, what is the importance of Paleochristianity?

A: The only hope for the survival of your realm and species.


Q: (L) In what sense do you mean that?

A: Unification of aim: survival and avoidance of the destruction hanging over your heads as a consequence of the machinations of psychopathy.

Q: (L) So in other words, some of the thoughts and discussions that we've had over the past week or two {about the global situation} are pretty much on the money?

A: Yes. More or less. There has also been some nudging from this side. Time is getting "short" even though there really is no time. Remember what we said about being wise as serpents and gentle as doves.

It is because this knowedge may be our "only hope for the survival of your realm and species" that I am trying my best to follow @Laura and her efforts to obtain and dispense knowedge to the world.

I have no problem with the title of this book. I really don't think we need any other "term" but we need more knowledge of what this means and how to share it.
 

goyacobol

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I did finish FPTM at a very slow pace while reading the bookmarks as I went. I had many pages of this thread to catch up on after reading the book but I did not want to comment without reading all of the comments in this thread first. Others here have already given more in-depth reviews and praise than I could hope to express so eloquently. I saved many of the links in the bibliography for future reference (In case I live long enough to actually use them). I am really looking forward to a new book about Caesar.

I did love this book and I am deeply grateful for the years of work Laura put into writing it. I learned so much by following her on the journey to piece together the fragments of history in a way that few have been able to achieve. I think I now see more than would ever be possible without the meticulous and honest approach taken. Even though we may still "see through a glass darkly" this book removes much of the darkness and shines a light on parts of the New Testament that often have gone unoticed by the average scholar.

The approach taken very much reminds me of verses in the book of Isaiah ESV Isa 28:

9 “To whom will he teach knowledge,
and to whom will he explain the message?
Those who are weaned from the milk,
those taken from the breast?
10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
line upon line, line upon line,
here a little, there a little.


I may be wrong but probably only those who are willing to suffer the complexity of “history” and use Collingwoods’ concept of The Idea of History while seeking the truth of it will see the beauty of this book. Being able to collect information and retain it while actually analyzing the subtle relationships between events and the actors in those events makes for an exceptionally gifted author.

Despite the serious research needed to author a book of this calibre there is humor sprinkled thoughout that makes you smile. Not many would describe Josephus' account of Pilate as making him seem to be the "Diet Coke of evil: just one calorie".

The extreme comprehensive effort put into this book is a testament to the author's love for the truth and willingness to give credit where credit is due. Her use of footnotes is exemplary allowing for concepts to be given credit to others lest she take credit unnecessarily or commit plagiarism.

For me it is a book that touchs the soul and gives new hope that even more light will be shed on the missing pieces of bible history.
 
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