Little "I's, that within which "moves" - and that which does not

[Psalehesost]

The following is the result of going over some very old postings of mine and distilling what I was trying to convey. They are old intuitive insights that I would like to network. If accurate, then perhaps this can serve as a good summary. If not, it would be good to know.



Consciousness - in terms of what makes you experience existence - seems to be a whole, in itself undivided.

Mechanical nature "splits" this "substance" into "threads" each going in its own direction. They still connect to a whole, but the "shards" each work in tunnel vision.

Mechanical reactions "pull" these slivers of consciousness - this "feels" as if one's presence is non-solid, "moving" internally, contracting, in response to inner and outer stimuli.

This feeling of "moving" internally indicates identification.

Ceasing to identify ends a "split" - one becomes more "solid".

So the removal of all identification result in inner unity. For this inner transformation is needed.

Step by step those "things" within that control one's consciousness must be "melted down". Many are also removed when underlying unhealthy emotion is removed.

Both and more is needed to gradually achieve unity.

 

[Meager1]

Actually, that is very good to know! Thank you for posting that.

In fact I would very much like to read any other related material, could you point out a direction for more on this subject?

 

[FrankM4326754]

I agree with Meager1 here, this is very interesting. Does EE breathing exercises help us attain this "unity"?

 

[herondancer]

That's an interesting way to look at things Psalehesost. It gives a dynamic feel to how the "little i's" can pull us this way and that; the hooks of our programs could be seen as the the endpoint of the split threads. "Braiding" them back together would give the strong rope of a unified consciousness. Your observation that "removing the underlying emotion" helps to heal those splits is very good. I'd be a little careful though of complicating your Work through inventing to much of an alternate vocabulary to that which is used in the Forum. As images to help you understand the different work terms though, I think they are quite evocative.

Practicing the EE program definitely assists with this melting and removing of blockages you perceive.

Herondancer

 

[anart]

The following is the result of going over some very old postings of mine and distilling what I was trying to convey. They are old intuitive insights that I would like to network. If accurate, then perhaps this can serve as a good summary. If not, it would be good to know.



Consciousness - in terms of what makes you experience existence - seems to be a whole, in itself undivided.

Mechanical nature "splits" this "substance" into "threads" each going in its own direction. They still connect to a whole, but the "shards" each work in tunnel vision.

Mechanical reactions "pull" these slivers of consciousness - this "feels" as if one's presence is non-solid, "moving" internally, contracting, in response to inner and outer stimuli.

This feeling of "moving" internally indicates identification.

Ceasing to identify ends a "split" - one becomes more "solid".

So the removal of all identification result in inner unity. For this inner transformation is needed.

Step by step those "things" within that control one's consciousness must be "melted down". Many are also removed when underlying unhealthy emotion is removed.

Both and more is needed to gradually achieve unity.

I think you're confusing things a bit and wandering off into left field, following threads you are creating yourself.

Mechanical nature has nothing to do with consciousness - it lacks consciousness completely. It is mechanical.

If man is to become conscious - to connect with his consciousness, then he must minimize his mechanical nature. His mechanical nature does not split anything into threads - it cannot - it is purely mechanical. Perhaps it would help you to re-read the Gnosis trilogy to get an idea of how man - in his default state - is completely disconnected from consciousness?

It is true that 'melting down' is necessary - a melting down of the mechanical aspects of one's self (which is usually the entire personality) - in order to connect with one's Consciousness - to be conscious - but to say that the mechanical aspects of oneself at all affect consciousness is to miss the point. They don't affect consciousness, they simply do not interact with it at all.

In a way, a man's Consciousness sits in the wings waiting, silent, sending signals, clues, gentle nudges (perhaps) until and if the man eventually melts the barriers between himself and what is real. fwiw.

Now, if you take what you wrote and apply it to the basic human mind (which is mechanical) then I can see it being more appropriate, but this is basically concerning the creation of the 'I's, as it were, and how the brain constantly splits and branches if the carriage has no driver or owner (which is the default state for mankind).

 

[Psalehesost]

Mechanical nature has nothing to do with consciousness - it lacks consciousness completely. It is mechanical.

When referring - as you are - to Objective Consciousness - the consciousness of the higher centers/higher self - that is quite true.

Now, if you take what you wrote and apply it to the basic human mind (which is mechanical) then I can see it being more appropriate,

And that's what I meant to do; by consciousness I did not mean to refer to that of the higher centers, or higher self, but to that of the "lower self" - in which we experience existence, though quite passively. As I defined it in my post, consciousness "in terms of what makes you experience existence", which says nothing of how one experiences it or of the ability to consciously interact with it.

but this is basically concerning the creation of the 'I's, as it were, and how the brain constantly splits and branches if the carriage has no driver or owner (which is the default state for mankind).

Which is what I meant to describe, this being part of what I have to work with, and also worked with back when the visual analogy was formed (a way of - which came by itself - abstractly picturing part of observation, based on inner "sensation", at the same time as the observation went on - thus following at once the content and the "form" of what went on).

At that time, 2008-something, my mind was completely stuffed with the "inner movement" I described, reactions and pulls all over the place. In observing them, and in focusing in a way on and according to what I was seeing, I got many such reactions to "let go" and cease - often just temporarily, but in digging and focusing deeper, things often seemed to change permanently, and gradually there was a lessening of this activity. It remains, but not nearly as "thick". The gradual change with continued efforts likewise goes on.

The "lower self" has seemed to be changing as I described - becoming gradually more "unmovable". Perhaps the gradual building of the magnetic center, or steward, or driver?

It is true that 'melting down' is necessary - a melting down of the mechanical aspects of one's self (which is usually the entire personality) - in order to connect with one's Consciousness - to be conscious - but to say that the mechanical aspects of oneself at all affect consciousness is to miss the point. They don't affect consciousness, they simply do not interact with it at all.

There does seem to be "levels" even in the lower self, though. Differences in level of "consciousness", keeping in mind that by "consciousness" I mean strictly that of the lower self, which is not consciousness compared to that of the higher self. The activity of the magnetic center brings about such a change before reaching the point of connecting to true Consciousness, to my understanding.

 

[Psalehesost]

Honestly, all that I wrote regarding distinctions of consciousness in my previous post popped into my head when I read your (anart's) reply, but it was not present in much of the thought that preceded it. There was no idea of higher consciousness, nor of lower - just consciousness.

So, yes - regardless of whether what I wrote stands given the elaboration made - in what I thought, I did wander into left field.

 

[Meager1]

An internal shifting then, or rather the sensation of internal "movement" would relate to the area in which one experiences it. For instance the abdomen area, would naturally relate to the lower self and some struggle occurring there.

And the more or stronger the internal movement, the more discord or imbalance, it would represent, if I am understanding this correctly?.

 

[Psalehesost]

I guess, if people are using what I wrote (and I guess the visual idea might work practically, as it did/does for me), then I'd better try to sort out (feedback welcome) remaining vagueness so as to not misinform with this thread.

An internal shifting then, or rather the sensation of internal "movement" would relate to the area in which one experiences it. For instance the abdomen area, would naturally relate to the lower self and some struggle occurring there.

It always relates to the lower self - however, there may be differences in the activity of the lower centers that can be "seen" this way; things "sensed" in the abdominal area (and also chest area) seem to relate in large part to emotional functioning. Things sensed there can also be a matter of (which may be subtle) actual, physical muscle contraction - and tensing seems to go along with negative emotion, including (maybe even especially) when "below the surface", dissociated away.

And the more or stronger the internal movement, the more discord or imbalance, it would represent, if I am understanding this correctly?.

So it seems.


And now, part of what I wrote in a draft (now updated) for a reply before anart's reply, which I didn't post as I didn't have time to complete it:

Two quotes regarding inner focus in inner work that might be relevant in coming to an idea of how to focus - once things are seen - to change things (since this is hard to concretely express in words):

[...] separation of the fine from the coarse, the separation of the light from the dark, relates to an inner process of purification, a liberation from impurities made possible by the conscious surrendering of our outwardly directed self-will (a passive negation) to a more conscious, inwardly directed essential affirmation (that is, a conscious affirmation which serves as the spiritualizing factor), resulting in the purification of our own existence, both inwardly and outwardly, resulting in the purification of our essential nature (spiritual purity).

"Self-will" here is the "self-drive" of mechanical activity, as I interpret it.

[...] thinking with a hammer means approaching the object of thought from all angles. The hammer also implies hammering against one's beliefs and prejudices, creating internal friction by being critical of the thought process itself. Thinking with a hammer is in a sense the opposite of habitual thinking. Thinking with a hammer means forging new paths and connections as opposed to forcing things to fit within the grooves of existing categories. It is expanding one's mind to be at the measure of the questions instead of shrinking the questions to fit the mind's habits. Thinking with a hammer cannot take place in a state of sleep. It needs an application of will and going against one's internal resistance.

While the quote seems wider in scope, the intuitive understanding I arrived at long ago in reading this for the first time was one of "seeing into", with Self-Remembering, mechanical activity as it occurs and then directing genuine will (see previous quote for the alternative to "self-will") into and according to what one sees.

Then another thing - more recent thought: Apart from active reactions, there are also "solidified" identifications - beliefs, assumptions held - these forming a "crust" that blocks one's true self. On top of them, there may be both "supporting" reactions and counter-reactions that are triggered by specific situations, these of the sort seen as "inner movement". For example (the case for me), one may see oneself as deficient in some way, and then in some situations a counter-reaction is triggered making one view oneself the opposite way. This passive "crust" and the active, inner "moving" seem to often go in pairs - or at any rate, I've seen several in myself.

This old SAO posting addresses the issue of assuming 'qualities' in oneself where these assumptions are simply lies. It seems such assumptions when "permanent" form passive "crust".

OSIT.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Psalehesost

Some wee addtions that might be useful for pondering.

From The Herald of Coming Good G I Gurdjieff.

Because of this one-sided education of the modern man, upon the attainment of his majority, these three entirely independent sources or centres of his life, that is, firstly, the source of his intellectual life, secondly, the source of his " emotional " life, and, thirdly, his instinct or " motor " centre, instead of fusing inwardly in the normal
way to produce common outer manifestations, have become, especially of late, quite independent outward functions, and not only the methods of education of those functions, but also the quality of their manifestations, have become dependent on special outer subjective conditions.
According to the deductions based on detailed experiments made by Mr. Gurdjieff himself, as well as those by many other people who have seriously thought about this question, every really conscious perception and manifestation of man can only result from the simultaneous and co-ordinate working of the three aforesaid sources, which make up his general individuality, and each of which must fulfil its role, that is, furnish its own share of associations and experiences.

The complete achievement of the requisite and normal manifestation in each distinct case is possible only upon the co-ordination of the activity of all these three sources.
In the modern man, partly owing to his abnormal education during his preparatory age, and partly owing to influences due to certain causes of the generally established abnormal conditions of modern life, the working of his psychic centres during his responsible age is almost entirely disconnected, therefore his intellectual, emotional and instinctive motor functions do not serve as a natural complement and corrective for one another, but, on the contrary, travel along different roads, which rarely meet and for this reason permit very little leisure for obtaining that, which should in reality be understood by the word " consciousness ", wrongly used by modern people today.

As a result of the lack of co-ordinated activity on the part of these three separately formed and independently educated parts of man's general psyche, it has come about that a modern man represents three different men in a single individual; the first of whom thinks in complete isolation from the other parts, the second merely feels, and the third acts only automatically, according to established or accidental reflexes of his organic functions.
These three men in one should, in accordance with the foresight of Great Nature, represent, taken together in responsible age, one man as he ought to be: the " manwithout-
inverted-commas ", that is, the real man.
.........
.......
All the impressions recorded in these three relatively independent parts, composing man's general psyche, later produce, in the period of responsible age, all kinds of associations
in diverse combinations.
That which is called'' reason'' in man, as well as in all other external forms of life, is nothing more than the concentration
of the results of impressions of different quality formerly perceived ; and the stimulation and repetition of these provokes different kinds of associations in the being.
The recorded impressions have three sources of origin, and are subject to three different law-abiding influences.
One category of associations is formed by impressions perceived involuntarily and coming directly from the outer world as well as springing from man's inner world, as a result of certain previous, constant and automatically repeated associations.
The second category is formed by voluntarily perceived impressions either springing from the external world or crystallising in man's inner world by means of deliberate
active thinking and verifications of reality.
And the third category originates exclusively from the process of so-called " transformed-contemplation ", that is, from the confrontation of homogeneous impressions of all origins, which were already fixed, while continuous contact is maintained between their inner and separate centres.

So as well as identifying our differing states of consciousness, cam we find examples of our different modes of thought from the 3 outlined above?

Addition - Another way to look at different "I's" is to investigate our different daily trance states, and I am not talking about 'consensus trance' eg the encultured reality that we find agreement on. I mean the way that we can drift from one trance to another, and investigate in ourselves how one centre can act while the others dream. Eg Body intelligence engaged in physical act of sawing wood, while emotional brain dreams and reminisces about last night succesful first date etc. We can begin to identify our 'trances' and the 'feel' of different trances and the feel when identified can be used as an alarm clock that flags the trance.


From Beelzebubs Tales.

"If you try to represent clearly to yourself and to transubstantiate in the
corresponding parts of your common presence what I am about to explain,
you will perhaps understand almost half of all the reasons why the psyche of
your favorites breeding on the planet Earth has finally become such a unique
phenomenon.
"This psychic peculiarity of falling into a 'hypnotic state' is, as I have just
said, inherent only in the three-brained beings of this planet of yours, and one
can therefore say that if they did not exist, then in the whole of our Great
Universe there would not exist even a being-notion of 'hypnotism.'
"Before explaining more about all this, it is appropriate to emphasize that
although during the last twenty centuries almost the entire ordinary waking
existence of most of the three-brained beings who have taken your fancy,
particularly of the contemporary ones, has proceeded under the influence of
this property of theirs, they give the name of 'hypnotic state' only to that state
during which the process of this peculiar property flows in them at an
accelerated rate and produces concentrated results.
"And they fail to notice or, as they would say, they are not 'struck by' the
incongruous results of this property, recently fixed in the ordinary process of
their existence, because, on the one hand, in the absence of normal self
perfecting, they lack what is called a 'wide horizon,' and on the other hand,
arising and existing according to the principle of itoklanotz, it has become
proper to them to forget very quickly what they perceive But when the results
of this property begin to 'acceleratedly concentrate,' all incongruous
manifestations, their own and those of others, become so real that they are
strikingly obvious and unavoidably perceptible even to their bobtailed Reason.
"And even if certain of them should by chance notice something illogical
in their own manifestations or those of another, then, not having the
knowledge of the 'law of type,' they ascribe it to the traits of character of the
given being.

the next chapter 'Russia' explores suggestibility among other things.

 

[anart]

Mechanical nature has nothing to do with consciousness - it lacks consciousness completely. It is mechanical.

When referring - as you are - to Objective Consciousness - the consciousness of the higher centers/higher self - that is quite true.

I'm referring to consciousness. There is no consciousness in sleeping humanity - only mechanical nature.

And that's what I meant to do; by consciousness I did not mean to refer to that of the higher centers, or higher self, but to that of the "lower self" - in which we experience existence, though quite passively. As I defined it in my post, consciousness "in terms of what makes you experience existence", which says nothing of how one experiences it or of the ability to consciously interact with it.

Then it's not consciousness, it's mechanical thinking and behavior which could not be further from consciousness.

[quote author=ps]
Which is what I meant to describe, this being part of what I have to work with, and also worked with back when the visual analogy was formed (a way of - which came by itself - abstractly picturing part of observation, based on inner "sensation", at the same time as the observation went on - thus following at once the content and the "form" of what went on).

At that time, 2008-something, my mind was completely stuffed with the "inner movement" I described, reactions and pulls all over the place. In observing them, and in focusing in a way on and according to what I was seeing, I got many such reactions to "let go" and cease - often just temporarily, but in digging and focusing deeper, things often seemed to change permanently, and gradually there was a lessening of this activity. It remains, but not nearly as "thick". The gradual change with continued efforts likewise goes on.

The "lower self" has seemed to be changing as I described - becoming gradually more "unmovable". Perhaps the gradual building of the magnetic center, or steward, or driver?[/quote]

It might be helpful to understand that a person acting 'from' their lower centers cannot discern their lower self from their higher self(if it exists). They perceive all of it as 'oneself'. To think otherwise, is to wiseacre - to create grand theories of how this or that works; to imagine that this impression or influence is higher and that impression or influence is lower. There is a certain flavor to this type of creation of theories.


[quote author=ps]

There does seem to be "levels" even in the lower self, though.[/quote]

Do there?

Differences in level of "consciousness", keeping in mind that by "consciousness" I mean strictly that of the lower self, which is not consciousness compared to that of the higher self.

You are confusing terms and concepts again. It seems you are 'fighting' for your theory and missing the point that it's all basically imagination.

The activity of the magnetic center brings about such a change before reaching the point of connecting to true Consciousness, to my understanding.

A magnetic center must first be 'forged' - created through suffering, heat, inner-friction and applied attention. Once forged, and this is no small feat, the magnetic center can influence the state of being of the individual to 'fuse' the entire being into an individual I. I think that might be what you're trying to say here, but you seem to be stating it as if the magnetic center has a certain 'activity' that results in something, which is a bit confusing, I think. The creation of a magnetic center is quite the feat in itself.

Honestly, all that I wrote regarding distinctions of consciousness in my previous post popped into my head when I read your (anart's) reply, but it was not present in much of the thought that preceded it. There was no idea of higher consciousness, nor of lower - just consciousness.

So, yes - regardless of whether what I wrote stands given the elaboration made - in what I thought, I did wander into left field.

So, your previous response to me was a mechanical reaction in order to save face or save your theory, to adjust what you had said in such a way to make it appear to not be what you just said. It's amazing how that clarity can come after the mechanical reaction, isn't it? It's a good sign you recognized it for what it was, though. :)

 

[Psalehesost]

The idea I've had of consciousness before - which was, as I pointed out, not even present in the thought in the beginning of the thread - was that level of consciousness is a sliding scale, though highly nonlinear - this seems a relatively common misconception, I think. Rather, until after something Real is first fused consciousness is binary - not present at all until one gets a bit of it.

Just to make sure I've got it: Say there are two machines. One is reading esoteric material and trying to clean itself up; the other is constantly submerged in video gaming and completely unaware of anything else in life. Both are equally mechanical and unconscious. The behavior of both is as far away from consciousness as you can get. The only difference in these respects is in their future potential for fusing something Real. A difference in clarity, awareness and/or relative "well-functioning" of a machine does not imply a difference in consciousness.

... to create grand theories of how this or that works; to imagine that this impression or influence is higher and that impression or influence is lower. There is a certain flavor to this type of creation of theories.

This one?

[...] The energy of the sex center in the work of the thinking, emotional, and moving centers can be recognized by a particular 'taste,' by a particular fervor, by a vehemence which the nature of the affair concerned does not call for. The thinking center [...] is always fighting something, disputing, criticizing, creating new subjective theories. [...]

[quote author=ps]
There does seem to be "levels" even in the lower self, though.

Do there?
[/quote]

Levels of functioning, focus and attention - and clarity - which I mistook for levels of consciousness.

 

[nwigal]

Just to make sure I've got it: Say there are two machines. One is reading esoteric material and trying to clean itself up; the other is constantly submerged in video gaming and completely unaware of anything else in life. Both are equally mechanical and unconscious. The behavior of both is as far away from consciousness as you can get. The only difference in these respects is in their future potential for fusing something Real.

Can any generalizations be made about any future potentials resulting from different illusions? I've seen individuals brought to complete spiritual bankruptcy through video gaming, and begin to wake to the terror of the situation.
I've seen individuals become convinced that they are awake through esoteric studies, and become even more comfortable in their slumber.
In other words, whether these lessons lead to a possibility of waking from illusion, or a deeper trap, depends on who you are and what you see, OSIT.

 

[John G]

The idea I've had of consciousness before - which was, as I pointed out, not even present in the thought in the beginning of the thread - was that level of consciousness is a sliding scale, though highly nonlinear - this seems a relatively common misconception, I think. Rather, until after something Real is first fused consciousness is binary - not present at all until one gets a bit of it.

Well Hameroff of Hameroff-Penrose thinks the building block of consciousness is built in at the smallest level. He could be right but it's like with free will where it's not really free until objective knowledge enters the picture. 1st Density does supposedly have something related to consciousness, but like with us humans for the most part, it's not much to talk about.

Just to make sure I've got it: Say there are two machines. One is reading esoteric material and trying to clean itself up; the other is constantly submerged in video gaming and completely unaware of anything else in life. Both are equally mechanical and unconscious. The behavior of both is as far away from consciousness as you can get. The only difference in these respects is in their future potential for fusing something Real. A difference in clarity, awareness and/or relative "well-functioning" of a machine does not imply a difference in consciousness.

Well you never know what path is out there for someone (or if the note before yours will make the same point). The game player could be into computers a lot too and stumble upon SOTT/Cass/FOTCM and the goofy ideas of a friend start to make sense. Obviously there are plenty of traps out there for the esoteric material reader too. But yes different people can be at different points as far as learning.

Something like Adamic/pre-Adamic would be a very different point but even there pre-Adamics (like lower densities) can make progress in their way and Adamics can sleep their life away thus totally wasting the advanced (compared to pre-Adamic) starting point.

Levels of functioning, focus and attention - and clarity - which I mistook for levels of consciousness.

Anart did mention brain things at the end of her first note; obviously there's some difference between 1st Density and us for the most part sleeping humans.

 

[Psalehesost]

Can any generalizations be made about any future potentials resulting from different illusions? I've seen individuals brought to complete spiritual bankruptcy through video gaming, and begin to wake to the terror of the situation.
I've seen individuals become convinced that they are awake through esoteric studies, and become even more comfortable in their slumber.
In other words, whether these lessons lead to a possibility of waking from illusion, or a deeper trap, depends on who you are and what you see, OSIT.

True, and a good addition to this discussion. But the point I had in mind was more that it seems that even after beginning to wake up to the terror of one's situation, one is still equally mechanical and unconscious until one has gone all the way. If you picture that first machine in the example as being the second in its future, post-initial-bankruptcy, then even knowing it is asleep, they are still equal in (un)consciousness unless a real fusion has taken place.