Lookin for a Grad School Abroad

[Cyre2067]

Hey Guys, Recently my employers @ my new job have been encouraging me to apply to grad school. My interest is quite specific, i want to study the biochemical and genetic differeneces between psychopaths (essential and others) vs normal humans.

Looking at different programs, currently I've checked Princeton, UBC, Columbia and Berkeley, and it doesn't look like there are any researchers doing anything similiar to what i want to learn. So basically I wanted to ask if anyone's heard of a good neuroscience or psychology program in their home country(or in the US) if they could just toss me the name or website of the institution so i could investigate further.

thanks

 

[rs]

Dude, think about it for a few seconds.

Universities are not centers of unbounded research, diving into the wild unknown in search of the miraculous (pun intended). The best way to get tenure is to be a research funding attracting engine. The best way to unemployment is to wander off into the weeds of unfunded research.

Now take a little guess as to who (or more specifically what kind of individual) authorizes and provides this funding for research to the universities?

Think a second. Take your time. Don't want to rush you...

You are trying to get in to the wrong business. Consider the inventor of the machine gun:

At the Paris Exhibition in 1881, a man told [Hiram] Maxim that if he wanted to make a fortune, he should invent a machine that would help these Europeans kill each other. Maxim did and sold his machine guns to European countries on the eve of World War I, changing the nature of combat.

(Seriously, good luck!)

 

[Cyre2067]

True true, and I knew orthodox science wouldn't really embrace the concept, but I was hoping to find someone doing something similiar and expand on it. Like I said, I'm being encouraged to goto grad school, my employers have basically said "We can get you in anywhere you want" and they understand i want to research something unique, so i figured I'd might as well look around.

Thanks for your input!

 

[domi]

Hey Guys, Recently my employers @ my new job have been encouraging me to apply to grad school. My interest is quite specific, i want to study the biochemical and genetic differeneces between psychopaths (essential and others) vs normal humans.

Biochemistry and genetics are very strong industries in the San Francisco bay area, so I suggest checking out UCSF and secondarily Stanford.
I did some online searching and Univ of Madison (WI) also came up.

 

[Beau]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I doubt you'll find anything but orthodox science at places like Princeton, Columbia, and Berkeley. Maybe you should look at a lesser known school for your area, one that isn't "immersed in the establishment".

Edit: UW-Madison, as domivr points out, is a good place to look at. Plus, I would think the campus and city would be right up your alley :)

 

[brainwave]

Hey,

You already know I am in a graduate program in biological psychology and behavioral neuroscience.
No one in my program does research in psychopathy in the direct way i would like to (maybe the PTB have some effect). On the other hand, there are lots of people looking at
the genetics and psychopharmacology of various psychiatric disorders and behavior in general. Drug addiction for example is well funded as well as research in disease models for autism, schizophrenia etc that may impact psychopathy research. You may want to consider alternatives in which you can do some of what you want. I chose the lab in am currently in for my dissertation research because my mentor is a biochemist by training with strong genetics leaning and whose real interest is more toward psychopathy. He is actually not in the psych/neurosci department even though that is the program I am in. So my research is being done in a lab that is part of the molecular genetics & developmental biology program. He is more likely to be funded for schizophrenia and drug abuse research right where he is rather than in the psych dept. So I really should have applied to the bio department but learned all this after my first lab rotation in a typical psychology lab. What I am saying here is do not limit yourself to a "psychology' or any labeled program, look for a program that you can do your work. I was lucky in that he had a good relationship with my program head so I was able to work 'out of department'.

What can you do about your goals knowing the system as it is? Get creative. You may be able to create some leeway in your program design as long as you get the requirements in. Do not rely on a school to have a ready made program but look for a school that has programs that are flexible enough so that you can work on your goals and at the same time 'throw the croc a piece of meat'. Some schools would not let a psych student do their dissertation research in another department all together. Forget the name of the school. Look at stuff like the programs available, who you can work with and have back up people to work with in case it doesnt work out, is there enough funding so you can do what you need to do. Programs like to "weed" people out with the no funding excuse too but if someone is willing to go to bat for you, it can be found. It's not just the school or the department but also what you can and cannot do and who would be willing to sponsor your research.

You know where I go to school so it's up to you if you want to look into it.

I also think at Binghamton U and yes UW-madison have pretty good psych and neurosci depts.
I almost went to Binghamton. Columbia U has been good to me in some ways but for a grad program the department are not very flexible with who you can or cannot work with. Based on my visit and talks with professors at binghamton I got the impression that one can do what one is interested in at but again it would not necessarily be labeled 'research in psychopathy' program. There is one prof there, Mark Lenzeweger, that is very much into psycopathology research only he is in the clinical psych department and I had applied for the neurosci. The departments collaborate so I think you can get things done but how much I dunno. If anything I think the signs once had one of his articles or cited his work. The one drawback was that the city of binghamton was not suitable for the living situation I needed.

good luck.

 

[CarpeDiem]

Dude, think about it for a few seconds.
Universities are not centers of unbounded research, diving into the wild unknown in search of the miraculous (pun intended). The best way to get tenure is to be a research funding attracting engine. The best way to unemployment is to wander off into the weeds of unfunded research.
Now take a little guess as to who (or more specifically what kind of individual) authorizes and provides this funding for research to the universities?
Think a second. Take your time. Don't want to rush you...
You are trying to get in to the wrong business. Consider the inventor of the machine gun:

At the Paris Exhibition in 1881, a man told [Hiram] Maxim that if he wanted to make a fortune, he should invent a machine that would help these Europeans kill each other. Maxim did and sold his machine guns to European countries on the eve of World War I, changing the nature of combat.

Rs, methinks you display here a mentality of a looser. You basically rise all your ‘fours’ high into the air before an actual battle begins, and even before a mental battle begins (like in what happens in marital arts as Kenlee pointed out to me some time ago). You embraced position of a looser long before even approximate evaluation of possibilities takes place.
My evaluation that Brent is eager to do is a noble act. I don’t see any negative outcome there so far, in the worst scenario, if he doesn’t find a suitable lab, willing to work in this field, he will spread knowledge about Political Ponerology to a wider (and highly educated, independently thinking) audience in the Academia world. Could it bring any harm? But what IF his Project will interest pique interest of some head of a Lab, so that group would make a whole research Project on this? Is that outcome totally impossible? If it’s even tiny share of a percent posibility, I would most definitely pursue it, because what Brent has in his head, is a noble act, just for this, fwiw. but maybe i'm incorrect in my evaluation.
Brent, what about Europe and Australia? Would you be willing to look up also there? How ‘spacially’ restricted is your area of interest?

 

[Renaissance]

Rs, methinks you display here a mentality of a looser.

Perhaps 'defeatist' would have been a better choice of words. In the English language, 'looser' holds an insulting connotation. Your explanation helped define things, but I just wanted to mention it. RS' message may have been somewhat defeatist, but I think he gave a good caution about academia - particularly about the types of institutions that Cyre seemed to be aiming for. The General Law is strong and we have to be ever vigilant in how we can escape it. There could be ways around it and perhaps as was already suggested, schools under the radar would be a better choice.

Robert Hare has some links to universities here that could be of benefit:

http://hare.org/links/universities.html

(UW-Madison is among those listed)

Edit: Hare included Dr. Christopher J. Patrick's profile at U of Minnesota, which might also be of interest for you.

 

[CarpeDiem]

Sorry, i didn't mean to insult Rs. Yeah, there should be 'defeatist' attitude, one who gives up easily. Thanks Shane for pointing that out

 

[Cyre2067]

Brent, what about Europe and Australia? Would you be willing to look up also there? How ‘spacially’ restricted is your area of interest?

Not spacially restricted at all. It's actually kinda a point of conflict b/c my employers would have more weight getting me into schools in the US, but given the state of things, esp given the nature of the research, I'd prefer to study abroad. Then again, it seems we have pathocracies entrenched all around the world. I think if i can find a mentor and a program that will let me study what i want i'll go for it regardless of where it is.

Ingrid - thanks for your input, i was wondering your take. I'll definitely check out Binghamton U.

Shane - thanks for that link - i didn't catch that spot the first parousal i did of hare.org

Beau - Yeah, your right. I just hit those first cuz they popped in my mind. Lol, and now i can see why.

Domivr - thanks for the UW-Madison tip, i haven't checked them out yet. I don't think UCSF has phD programs, but i'll recheck just incase, and Stanford might be worth a shot eventho it's 'ivy league'.

i <3 you guys.

 

[anart]

Sorry, i didn't mean to insult Rs. Yeah, there should be 'defeatist' attitude, one who gives up easily. Thanks Shane for pointing that out

It's also important to remember that one cannot run head on into the juggernaut that is the pathocracy and expect to get anything done - or survive. So, rs' point is a good one and something that Brett must always keep in mind as he goes about this work.

Vigilance - rooted in knowledge. Pretending such things are not a fact of life currently - or as you might put it 'not being defeatist' is one sure way to be neutralized quickly. I don't think rs was being defeatist, I think he was being pragmatic, though also being a bit blunt about it. fwiw

 

[rs]

Vigilance - rooted in knowledge. Pretending such things are not a fact of life currently - or as you might put it 'not being defeatist' is one sure way to be neutralized quickly. I don't think rs was being defeatist, I think he was being pragmatic, though also being a bit blunt about it. fwiw

Subtlety is not necessarily one of my strong points...

This was exactly my point. If you want to read the "real" news, you need to pay attention to the "one-of" stories. For example the story in the Newark Star Ledger about the dancing Israeli movers. Paying attention to the oft repeated and honed to perfection "stories" means you are just buying into the meme.

I highly applaud any effort to pursue this area of study, my caution is only that one should not expect this kind of a program at Princeton, Harvard or Yale. Alternatively you might be able to pursue this kind of thing at "Whatsamatta U". In other words, you have to get far from the "mainstream".

There are two problems with this, first the credibility of a piece of paper stamped "Princeton" is orders of magnitude greater than "<Insert name here> Community College" regardless of the actual merits of the learning experience. Second, if research is published by a graduate student from Harvard vs. Whatsamatta U, there is much more credibility to it. Credibility also translates to relative impact. If a Whatsamatta U professor publishes a paper claiming the sky is falling, he is a nut case. If a Princeton professor does so, everyone builds a back-yard falling sky cellar.

What does this mean? It means if you want a good job, go to Princeton. If you want to learn, you can always read a book. If you want to contribute, well, "aye, there's the rub". In that case you have to be particularly selective of which group you contribute to and just exactly how you go about it.

The simple bottom line is that the PTB are very sensitive to and quick to recognize a threat. If you are going to "do battle", it is very wise to accurately understand your opponent's capabilities.

Rs, methinks you display here a mentality of a looser.
...
Sorry, i didn't mean to insult Rs.

Would you have been?

P.S. "Whatsamatta U" is my (bad) attempt at a bit of humor. It is a reference to the Alma Mater of Bullwinkle J. Moose of "Rocky and Bullwinkle" fame. I watched that cartoon as a child and recently watched it on DVD. I was simply astonished at how much of the material simply went over my head at the time.

 

[Ruth]

You could try looking at all the research papers on psychopathy (past and present), who's doing it, and where, and then approach them with your ideas. I mean, there has to be SOMEBODY doing research into it at the moment (who is mainstream and not government).

The thing is, what kind of dicipline does it come under? Psychology, Medical (Pshychiatry), or Biochemical? Does it combine more than one dicipline? I suppose that might be a problem when trying to link more than one dicipline.

If your main topic is pyschopathy, then you need to get your hands on all the research papers you can on it. 'Cos this will be part of your research (anyway) and you will be expected to refer to other works in your own. You need to have a clear idea about exactly what you are going to be researching, how you are going to measure it, and why. Do you have any more details on this? Then, you have to submit a proposal (in order to get funding and approval from any universities ethics committee). At least, I think that's how its done. You need to be clear on what you want to do and how you are going to do it most of all.

However, it may be different for you over there.

 

[Cyre2067]

Spent two hours doing some searching/emailing this morning and came up with two good leads. Waiting to hear from them by they both focus on psychopathy.

Joseph Newman -
I am studying the psychological processes that contribute to the dysregulation of behavior, emotion, and cognition. Most of this research has focused on syndromes of disinhibition such as psychopathy (antisocial personality disorder), conduct disorder, aggression, and impulsivity. However, our group is also interested in understanding how emotionality short-circuits cognitive processing and engenders dysregulation in people with high anxiety.

Adrian Raine, D.Phil., is the Robert G. Wright Professor of Psychology in the Department of Psychology and Neuroscience Program, University of Southern California. After two years as an airline accountant with British Airways, he received his bachelor's degree in Experimental Psychology from Oxford University in 1977, and his D.Phil. in Psychology from York University, England, in 1982. After spending four year in two top-security prisons in England where he worked as a prison psychologist, he was appointed as Lecturer in Behavioral Sciences in the Department of Psychiatry, Nottingham University in 1984. In 1986 he became Director of the Mauritius Child Health project, a longitudinal study of child mental health that today constitutes one of his key research projects. He emigrated to the United States in 1987 to take up a position as Assistant Professor in Psychology at the University of Southern California. He was promoted to Associate Professor in 1990, and spent the following three years as Associate Chair of the Psychology Department. In 1994 he was promoted to Professor of Psychology, and in 1999 was given an endowed chair (Robert G. Wright Professorship of Psychology). Other awards include the Young Scientist of the Year Award from the British Psychological Society (1980), a Research Scientist Development Award from NIMH (1993), an Independent Scientist Award from NIMH (1999), the Joseph Zubin Memorial Award (1999), and USC’s Associate’s Award for Creativity in Research (2003). For the past 30 years, Dr. Raine=s research has focused on the neurobiological and biosocial bases of antisocial and violent behavior in both children and adults. He has published five books and 180 journal articles and book chapters, been the principal investigator on 17 extramural research grants and main mentor on 9 NIH pre- and post-doctoral awards, and given over 180 invited presentations both nationally and internationally. Together with several research colleagues he has been instrumental in helping establish a brain imaging research center at USC. His research interests include the neurobiology of violence, psychopathic, and antisocial behavior; schizotypal personality; brain imaging; psychophysiology; neurochemistry; neuropsychology; behavioral and molecular genetics.

If your main topic is pyschopathy, then you need to get your hands on all the research papers you can on it. 'Cos this will be part of your research (anyway) and you will be expected to refer to other works in your own. You need to have a clear idea about exactly what you are going to be researching, how you are going to measure it, and why. Do you have any more details on this? Then, you have to submit a proposal (in order to get funding and approval from any universities ethics committee). At least, I think that's how its done. You need to be clear on what you want to do and how you are going to do it most of all.

Yep, I've been gathering some papers, found a few, but they take a while to go through, so i have more then i've read. At this point emailing the authors seems promising. Still wrestling with the general law, it's been keeping me occupied, aiming to move (again) by the end of august. As for your questions I think I've already defined what: Biochemical/Genetic and/or Physiological Differences between Psychopaths and Humans. How: Brain Scan technology has been used already, so it's a start. However I would like to expand that into genetics and proteomics as that's my shtick thus far. My Why is threefold: 1. To acquire a scientific assay that would allow one to determine presence or lack of a conscience(preferably more then one), 2. To acquire insight as to the molecular/biochemical cause of psychopathy and 3. To find a cure.

 

[Alana]

3. To find a cure.

Hi Brent, this caught my attention: can you imagine a psychopath ever saying, "I'd like to be cured?" ;)