Loosening knots.

Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
All things have their purpose, their role, their raison d'être, as we already know.
So, if we already know it, why do we sometimes seem not to know it?
Are our habitual way of thinking the walls of our cage?

An example of what I mean is the following:

By distraction, by new age concepts, by mental laziness, or by whatever, the Ego is being considered as an absolutely negative thing.
To the point that many have proposed to destroy or eradicate it from their lives, believing that this is a great achievement in their spiritual path.
In my opinion, this strengthens the walls or bars of our personal cage.

For what has been said before, I firmly believe that instead of trying to destroy the Ego, it would be more productive and unblocking to find its true role.

In that search, I ask myself some questions that may be part of the answers:

How could anyone, experience life as an individual, with free will, with the possibility of deciding, with the possibility of knowing himself, if he did not know that he is he, and the neighbor who is mowing the lawn is the neighbor who is mowing the lawn?

Undoubtedly there is something in Creation, which makes us distinguish, and know that I am not the other.
Could that something in Creation be the Ego?
Perhaps yes, and if it is, I suppose it will have other functions besides.
What I do know is that Ego is not the same as Egocentrism.

Although separation is an illusion, this illusion is real, and is part of the characteristics of this temporary adventure, in which we are by our own will.

It is logical and natural that when we feel separated, the trauma is very great, giving rise to all kinds of things, including Egocentrism.
Because of this and the above, other questions arise and in order to raise them, I will use the resource of personification.

Personifying the Ego I ask myself:

Are we putting the Ego in the government of our life, and by not being that its true role, it governs us in a disastrous way?

If we ourselves are encouraged to govern ourselves, won't it be much better?
I think so, but it would be good to have your vision on these issues, which need more light to see them better.

Thank you.
Best regards.
Aflojando nudos.

Todas las cosas tienen su cometido, su rol, su razón de ser, como ya sabemos.
Entonces, si ya lo sabemos, ¿porqué en ocasiones parece que no lo supiéramos?
Nuestra forma habitual de pensar, ¿son las paredes de nuestra jaula?

Un ejemplo de a lo que me refiero es el siguiente:

Por distracción, por conceptos de la nueva era, por pereza mental, o por lo que sea, se le está considerando al Ego, como una cosa absolutamente negativa.
Al puno tal, que muchos se han propuesto destruirlo o erradicarlo de sus vidas, creyendo que eso, es un gran logro en su camino espiritual.
En mi opinión, esto fortalece las paredes o barrotes de nuestra jaula personal.

Por lo dicho antes, pienso firmemente que en lugar de intentar destruir al Ego, sería mas productivo y desbloqueante, encontrarle su verdadero rol.

En esa búsqueda, me pregunto algunas cosas que quizás sean parte de las respuestas:

¿Cómo podría alguien, experimentar la vida como individuo, con libre albedrío, con posibilidad de decidir, con posibilidad de conocerse a sí mismo, si no supiera que él es él, y el vecino que está cortando el pasto es el vecino que está cortando el pasto?

Sin duda existe algo en la Creación, que nos hace distinguir, y saber que yo no soy el otro.
Ese algo en la Creación, ¿podría ser el Ego?
Quizás si, y de serlo, supongo que tendrá otras funciones además.
Lo que si sé, es que no es lo mismo Ego, que Egocentrismo.

Si bien la separación es una ilusión, dicha ilusión es real, y forma parte de las características que tiene esta aventura temporal, en la que estamos por voluntad propia.

Es lógico y natural que al sentirnos separados, el trauma sea muy grande, dando lugar a todo tipo de cosas, incluyendo el Egocentrismo.
Por esto y lo anterior, me surgen otras preguntas que para poder plantearlas, utilizaré el recurso de la personificación.

Personificando al Ego me pregunto:

¿Estamos poniendo al Ego en el gobierno de nuestra vida, y al no ser ese su verdadero rol, nos gobierna de manera desastrosa?

Si nosotros mismos nos animamos a gobernarnos, ¿no será mucho mejor?
Yo opino que si, pero sería bueno la visión de ustedes sobre estos temas, que necesitan más luz para verlos mejor.

Gracias.
Un abrazo.
 

Anthony

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
By distraction, by new age concepts, by mental laziness, or by whatever, the Ego is being considered as an absolutely negative thing.
To the point that many have proposed to destroy or eradicate it from their lives, believing that this is a great achievement in their spiritual path.
In my opinion, this strengthens the walls or bars of our personal cage.

For what has been said before, I firmly believe that instead of trying to destroy the Ego, it would be more productive and unblocking to find its true role.

I think you are right, it's much more about transcending the Ego or rather, seeing how it fits in to the bigger picture/the whole than it is about eradicating it, which would just tend to strenghten the more destructive aspects of it. If Ego is not a "thing" out there seperate from everything else, but a part of an ongoing larger process, then we should note its presence and assign to it its proper place in our psyche, not as a ruler but as a servant of something higher. Ian McGilchrist has a chapter on just such a topic in his latest book.
 
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Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
I think you are right, it's much more about transcending the Ego or rather, seeing how it fits in to the bigger picture/the whole than it is about eradicating it, which would just tend to strenghten the more destructive aspects of it. If Ego is not a "thing" out there seperate from everything else, but a part of an ongoing larger process, then we should note its presence and assign to it its proper place in our psyche, not as a ruler but as a servant of something higher. Ian McGilchrist has a chapter on just such a topic in his latest book.
Thank you Antonio.

I am very happy, because despite the arrogance that I must accept that I have, because it is becoming visible to me at this time, you have been able to capture exactly what I wanted to say about these issues, which concern us all so much.

Thank you.
 

zak

The Living Force
As a teenager, I used to find articles and photos in Karaté-Bushido Magazine to illustrate my binder on the history and techniques of martial arts and self-defence, and it had a section that I appreciated enormously, and just the day before yesterday, I came across a website that I had forgotten about since then that republishes its columns.
And he has a rather relevant passage that talks about the ego:
(...)
THE POWER OF THE EGO
Indeed, what is taught (in almost all fields and of course not only in martial arts) is almost always about appearances and not about the essence.
The ego (the "I" that blocks the Self) has unimaginable power. It must be seen as a real "personality" within us and our worst enemy. It is a real battle that we must engage with this powerful and cunning inner enemy.
The word "ego" is recent. It was Dr. Freud who used this Latin word to designate what he called "The Ego", which in other fields is called "the devil", "the evil counsellor spirit", "the hateful soul" (in relation to the divine soul), or sometimes also "The Sleeper" (in relation to the Observer we have to create within ourselves).
One can keep the word international ego, but it takes some time to see clearly what is meant. For, a priori, every "sleeper" has the clear feeling of having free will and of deciding what he wants, of being his Master... whereas he is only a kind of slave possessed by an ego. In fact by a multitude of egos. It is therefore necessary not only to create a Watcher within oneself, but also to create a "Butler" who does not let the "ego-servants-of-crap" do what they want when they want.
Seen briefly, through our five basic senses (sight, taste, smell, hearing, touch), from our earliest childhood we seek pleasure and our ego seeks to give us satisfaction. In other words, we only seek pleasure and to find what gave us pleasure (pleasures often "conditioned" by our culture).
You can disagree, it is obvious, it would even be normal since any "ordinary-sleepy" man never recognizes himself as such. But it's tricky, because by not agreeing you are clearly admitting to being "asleep".
If you can be honest for a moment, you know that the search for the pleasures of the five senses is true for everyday life. With, in addition (unless it encompasses all our senses at once, in a momentary "nirvana") the two primary drives for which you were born: survival of the organised cell that you are (self-preservation instinct) and transmission of your cell (reproduction instinct). Like all sexual life on earth (and probably elsewhere?).
Our ego (our ME) is therefore our closest friend to please us in the moment, but it doesn't care about the short and long term consequences, for us and for our "Essence" (let's say the SELF). The clearest example is school studies: any school indolence gives pleasures "in the moment" but pays dearly "in the long run".
Of course, as for lying and sleeping (since, as the comedian Péchin would have said in his Arabized interpretation of "Cicada and the Ant" ("enne pitite saloperie grosse comme ça" ... "whether you are "awake" or "asleep" you still die")... one can very well spend a whole life under the dictatorship of the ego. But at what price. Going from sorrow to sorrow, from pain to pain, from annoyance to annoyance, bitter, jealous, hateful and inevitably from failure to failure... on which the ego will always find good justifications "it's the fault of others", of course.
The ego is very clever. Don't think of it as an abstraction, think of it as alive and real. And all this without your knowledge (unconscious). It picks up everything to strengthen itself. Especially if you try to neutralise it. For example, becoming a "Seeker of Truth" and having a beginning of Awakening is strongly hijacked by the ego if one is not wary of it (hence the importance of a Guide at this stage). It will strengthen itself to justify its dictatorship... and eventually to find a clear and logical explanation for our "shit" (as one of my Masters who liked to shock said).
(...)
DeepL.
Bienvenue sur le site non-officiel d'Henry Plée
 

Il Matto

Jedi
By distraction, by new age concepts, by mental laziness, or by whatever, the Ego is being considered as an absolutely negative thing.
To the point that many have proposed to destroy or eradicate it from their lives, believing that this is a great achievement in their spiritual path.
In my opinion, this strengthens the walls or bars of our personal cage.
Perhaps the desire to destroy the Ego is itself a work of the Ego! What better way to assume complete control of the machine than to convince it that you no longer exist and so are no longer 'a threat'..!

If Ego is not a "thing" out there seperate from everything else, but a part of an ongoing larger process, then we should note its presence and assign to it its proper place in our psyche, not as a ruler but as a servant of something higher.
And I think that might well be the way to 'handle' the Ego; to bring it to heel and into the service of something higher through observation and learning to not 'feed' its insatiable clamouring for control. The Ego's insistent bleating that it has or will be offended / injured in some way is the source of so much of our fear (as I understand it). The struggle is to recognise this and to choose to not let it take over.
That said, I haven't yet been able to dive into McGilchrist's work, so I'm looking forward to much more food for thought when I do.
 

Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
Hello, thank you all again.
When I started this thread, I did so because I thought I had a lot to say about the "ego" issue and many other things besides.
However, I discovered that I have much more to read or listen to, than to say.
It can't be a coincidence, that when I stop underestimating others, it coincides with stages of greater lucidity, inspiration, and the like.
I have noticed this in my life, as a kind of mathematical pattern of nature.
I mention this because it is directly related to the idea that the Cas recommended, to focus more on the solution than on the problem, which in this particular case is the Ego.
It is obvious that the problems must be studied and analyzed, but we must be attentive so that we do not get blocked by only attracting information that confirms the problem and nothing else.
If we are authentic in "not underestimating others", it could well be the determining factor, in attracting information inherent to the solutions, balancing things, and making the analysis of a problem not counterproductive.
I don't want to be redundant, but I want to emphasize this:
It is very easy not to underestimate the people who make up this forum, for obvious reasons. What is difficult, is not to underestimate any person of all the rest.
Not to fall into that very serious mistake requires a lot of vigilance from ourselves.
I know you already know this, but routine sometimes makes us forget important things.
Thank you Zak for your publication, from which I will quote a fragment that I want to comment.
[ Zak said: .....]

As a teenager, I used to find articles and photos in Karaté-Bushido Magazine to illustrate my binder on the history and techniques of martial arts and self-defence, and it had a section that I appreciated enormously, and just the day before yesterday, I came across a website that I had forgotten about since then that republishes its columns.
And he has a rather relevant passage that talks about the ego:
(...)
THE POWER OF THE EGO
Indeed, what is taught (in almost all fields and of course not only in martial arts) is almost always about appearances and not about the essence.
The ego (the "I" that blocks the Self) has unimaginable power. It must be seen as a real "personality" within us and our worst enemy. It is a real battle that we must engage with this powerful and cunning inner enemy.
The word "ego" is recent. It was Dr. Freud who used this Latin word to designate what he called "The Ego", which in other fields is called "the devil", "the evil counsellor spirit", "the hateful soul" (in relation to the divine soul), or sometimes also "The Sleeper" (in relation to the Observer we have to create within ourselves).

This is very interesting.
It reminded me of something that many years ago my father told me, about the origin of the term "Devil".
He told me that there was a tool for separating, something wedge-shaped, that was called a "diabolo".
I don't know or I don't remember what they separated with that tool but, that because this was its function, the term was adopted in a religious context, to refer to: "That which separates".
I understand that there are more versions on the subject, but this is the concept with which I have managed so far in my reflections.
I find it extremely interesting, the concordance in the association of: "The Sleeper, Devil, Ego", as being the same, or part of the same factor in an equation.
As I already mentioned, the search for solutions bears good fruit.
Beyond the name we give to the phenomenon, the phenomenon exists, and that is what we have to take care of.
Being precisely in that task, I found a thread started by Luc, called "Working with small selves and the Work".
It is a wonderful thread, because it addresses all these issues with a solution-oriented approach, with very practical ideas.
If anyone is not yet familiar with that thread, I wholeheartedly recommend that you do so. It's in "The Work", and far from being a fluke.
[ El Mato said: ....]

By distraction, by new age concepts, by mental laziness, or by whatever, the Ego is being considered as an absolutely negative thing.
To the point that many have proposed to destroy or eradicate it from their lives, believing that this is a great achievement in their spiritual path.
In my opinion, this strengthens the walls or bars of our personal cage.
Perhaps the desire to destroy the Ego is itself a work of the Ego! What better way to assume complete control of the machine than to convince it that you no longer exist and so are no longer 'a threat'..!
I think exactly the same thing!
The program is well designed. But our task aims at transcending that program, and I sense that when we achieve it, we will understand the divine reasons for its existence, ceasing to hate or despise some aspects of Creation, loving it in its totality.
[ El Mato said: ....]
If Ego is not a "thing" out there seperate from everything else, but a part of an ongoing larger process, then we should note its presence and assign to it its proper place in our psyche, not as a ruler but as a servant of something higher.
And I think that might well be the way to 'handle' the Ego; to bring it to heel and into the service of something higher through observation and learning to not 'feed' its insatiable clamouring for control. The Ego's insistent bleating that it has or will be offended / injured in some way is the source of so much of our fear (as I understand it). The struggle is to recognise this and to choose to not let it take over.
That said, I haven't yet been able to dive into McGilchrist's work, so I'm looking forward to much more food for thought when I do.
I totally agree with every single thing you have said.
Regarding "the source of much of our fears", I would like to add something that I also think, although it is mere speculation on my part, which I do not have a background in psychology, far from it:
Considering that "All is One", I see no way to experience Creation, without the "Illusion of Separation".
Perhaps and only perhaps, because "time" is also an illusion, and therefore everything happens in the present, we have in some area of our complex, the traumatic experience of seeing ourselves separated for the first time, happening now.
A moderately healthy person is probably protected from this trauma, due to a good functioning of the mental complex.
Perhaps some maladjustment in the mental complex may cause the individual to have greater contact with the traumatic event.
In mild cases, the individual will simply be a little exaggerated in terms of attracting attention, seeking to stand out, etc., because he needs others, the environment, everything he perceives that is not him, to react to what he does, as his proof that he exists.
This fear of not existing is more evident in severe cases, where fear becomes terror.
In these cases, such individuals need verification of their existence on a permanent basis. They would panic if the environment is not reacting to their actions at all times.
Since they cannot wait, they do not strive to do things better than others, or in a surprising way in search of applause, etc., because that takes time.
Their need is immediate, and the quickest way for the environment to react is to make a lot of noise, to disturb, to destroy.
I am not talking about psychopaths or other types of entities, but about damaged people.
But for now I prefer not to speculate too much, at least in a solitary way, in this field of which I know very little, or rather nothing, and that in fact I am making hypotheses based on a supposed traumatic event, which is also hypothetical.
What there seems to be no doubt about, is that "fear" is the main factor in the government of the "ego". And, therefore, to change our governance requires a lot of courage and faith in the Divine cosmic mind!!!!
Thank you guys.
A hug.:flowers:

Hola, gracias a todos nuevamente.
Cuando comencé este hilo, lo hice porque creía que tenía mucho que decir sobre el asunto del "ego" y otras muchas cosas más.
Sin embargo, descubrí que tengo mucho más para leer o escuchar, que para decir.
No puede ser casualidad, que cuando dejo de subestimar a los demás, coincida con etapas de mayor lucidez, inspiración, y cosas por el estilo.
He notado esto en mi vida, como una especie patrón matemático de la naturaleza.
Comento esto porque tiene directa relación con la idea que los Cas recomendaron, de enfocarnos más en la solución que en el problema, que en este caso en particular se trata del Ego.
Es obvio que los problemas deben ser estudiados y analizados, pero debemos estar atentos para no quedarnos bloqueados, por solo atraer información que confirma el problema y nada más.
Si somos auténticos en lo de "no subestimar a los demás", bien podría ser el factor determinante, en la atracción de información inherente a las soluciones, equilibrando las cosas, y haciendo que el análisis de un problema no sea contraproducente.
No quiero ser redundante, pero quiero hacer hincapié en esto:
Es muy fácil no subestimar a la gente que integra este foro, por razones obvias. Lo difícil, es no subestimar a cualquier persona de todo el resto.
No caer en ese gravísimo error, requiere de mucha vigilancia de nosotros mismos.
Se que ya lo sabían, pero la rutina, a veces nos hace olvidar cosas importantes.
Gracias Zak por tu publicación, de la que citaré un fragmento que quiero comentar.
[ Zak dijo: .....]

Esto es muy interesante.
Me recordó algo que hace muchos años mi padre me contó, sobre el origen del término "Diablo".
Él me dijo que existía una herramienta para separar, algo con forma de cuña, que se llamaba "diábolo".
No sé o no recuerdo qué separaban con esa herramienta pero, que por ser esta su función, fue adoptado el término en un contexto religioso, para referirse a: "Lo que separa".
Entiendo que hay más versiones sobre el tema, pero este es el concepto con el cual me he manejado hasta el momento, en mis reflexiones.
Me resulta sumamente interesante, la concordancia en la asociación de: "El durmiente, Diablo, Ego", como siendo lo mismo, o parte del mismo factor en una ecuación.
Como ya mencioné, la búsqueda de soluciones da buenos frutos.
Más allá del nombre que le demos al fenómeno, el fenómeno existe, y es de lo que hay que encargarse.
Estando precisamente en esa tarea encontré un hilo que inició Luc, que se llama "Trabajando con pequeños yoes y la Obra".
Es un hilo maravilloso, porque encara todos estos temas con un enfoque de solución, con ideas muy prácticas.
Si alguien no conoce aún ese hilo, le recomiendo con todo mi corazón que lo haga. Está en "La obra", y lejos de ser casualidad.
[ El Mato dijo: ....]
¡Pienso exactamente lo mismo!
El programa está bien diseñado. Pero nuestra tarea apunta a trascender dicho programa, e intuyo que cuando lo logremos, entenderemos las razones divinas de su existencia, dejando de odiar o despreciar algunos aspectos de la Creación, amándola en su totalidad.
[ El Mato dijo: ....]
Estoy de acuerdo totalmente con cada cosa que han dicho.
Con respecto a " la fuente de gran parte de nuestros miedos", quisiera agregar algo que también pienso, aunque se trata de mera especulación de parte mía, que no cuento con estudios de psicología ni mucho menos:
Teniendo en cuenta que "Todo es Uno", no veo la forma de experimentar la Creación, sin la "Ilusión de separación".
Quizás y solo quizás, debido a que también el "tiempo" es una ilusión, y por lo tanto ocurre todo en presente, tengamos en alguna zona de nuestro complejo, la experiencia traumática de vernos separados por primera vez, sucediendo ahora.
Una persona medianamente sana, posiblemente esté al resguardo de dicho trauma, por un buen funcionamiento del complejo mental.
Quizás algún desajuste en dicho complejo, haga que el individuo tenga mayor contacto con el evento traumático.
En casos leves, el individuo simplemente será un poco exagerado en cuanto a llamar la atención, buscar destacarse, etc., porque necesita que los demás, el entorno, todo lo que percibe que no es él, reaccione ante lo que él hace, como su comprobación de que él existe.
Este miedo a no existir es más patente en los casos graves, donde el miedo pasa a ser terror.
En estos casos, dichos individuos necesitan la comprobación de su existencia en forma permanente. Entrarían en pánico si el entorno no está reaccionando ante sus actos, en todo momento.
Como no pueden esperar, no se esfuerzan en hacer las cosas mejor que lo demás, o de manera sorprendente en búsqueda de aplausos, etc., porque eso lleva su tiempo.
Su necesidad es inmediata, y lo más rápido para que el entorno reaccione, es hacer mucho ruido, molestar, destruir.
No estoy hablando de psicópatas u otros tipos de entidades, sino de personas dañadas.
Pero por ahora prefiero no especular demasiado, al menos en forma solitaria, en este terreno del que sé muy poco, mejor dicho nada, y que de hecho estoy haciendo hipótesis basados en un un supuesto evento traumático, que también es hipotético.
De lo que no parece haber duda, es de que el "miedo" es el principal factor en el gobierno del "ego". Y, por lo tanto, para cambiar nuestro gobierno se requiere de mucha ¡¡valentía y fe en la Divina mente cósmica !!
Gracias muchachos.
Un abrazo.:flowers:
 

truepositive

Padawan Learner
There is a philosophical core to this topic that comes down to an issue that 'cannot be fixed'. The paradox of being the whole and a part at the same time. Ontology and epistemology requires distinction. If there is no difference between things or objects, then it is not possible to describe anything. If 'destroying the ego' (whatever that means exactly) would put someone in a '(permanent) state of unity with the whole universe' they would logically no longer be able to speak our language because of a lack of distinction, so that's not quite how it works apparently.
 

RJ145

The Force is Strong With This One
I dislike terms like Ego, since that gives too much of a nod to modern psychology and a Freudian orientaction. The personality is what deals with the world and is an indispensable vehicle.However, for those interested in higher development, that pertains to a more permanent part of the Self. Some may term that essence. The personality doesn’t have that potential. What gets in the way of higher development is what’s often termed the lower self or the commanding self. It needs to stand aside enough at some point to allow Higher influences in. Often parts of ourselves reject these or what will help in our development.
 

Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
truepositive said:
We tend to get very deeply identified with the personality by various methods. Maybe 'loosening those particular knots' is a more accurate description of what needs to happen to move forward. Which is still not the same as 'destroying it' of course

Exactly!
Thank you.:flowers:
 
I used to think that Ego is something that is negative and just wants myself to feed itself through praise and be offended when I am not given what I think I deserve. Then, I learned that it is more healthy to have a balanced Ego. When it is balanced, Id like to think that I am able to relate more to others and practice compassion. Having a sense of ego not to the point of being a narcissistic one can help and aid in having more meaningful relationships and be able to identify myself in the other person's shoe.
 

ziutek

Jedi Master
In my opinion, most people confuse the ego and with their personality, which is something acquired while following the path of life.
I lean towards Gurdjieff's concept of personality and essence. Where the essence is (in my opinion) the true ego developed while gathering true information and forms a "second body" while crystallizing based on truth. And this "EGO" is as desirable as possible.

I hope I made myself clear.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 

Bernardo GA

The Force is Strong With This One
Thank you guys.

[RJ 145 said: ...]
I dislike terms like Ego, since that gives too much of a nod to modern psychology and a Freudian orientaction. The personality is what deals with the world and is an indispensable vehicle.However, for those interested in higher development, that pertains to a more permanent part of the Self. Some may term that essence. The personality doesn’t have that potential. What gets in the way of higher development is what’s often termed the lower self or the commanding self. It needs to stand aside enough at some point to allow Higher influences in. Often parts of ourselves reject these or what will help in our development.
I don't like the term "ego" either, but in my case, such rejection does not arise from my psychology studies, because I don't have them.
What I do have, is a distrust of everything that becomes fashionable.
In recent years I have seen the vast majority of people say the word "ego" all the time.
It is a term installed in the "modern" language, precisely.
However, I dislike much more, to feel rejection for something that I don't know what it means.
My own prejudices have already hindered me enough, and I am working to free my mind from those bindings.
Thanks to the input from all of you, I am seeing more clearly than before, or at least that's what it seems to me.
I also agree that "personality" is a much more productive approach to working on "Self", and I want to discuss it further.

[Princess Lux said: ... ]

I used to think that Ego is something that is negative and just wants myself to feed itself through praise and be offended when I am not given what I think I deserve. Then, I learned that it is more healthy to have a balanced Ego. When it is balanced, Id like to think that I am able to relate more to others and practice compassion. Having a sense of ego not to the point of being a narcissistic one can help and aid in having more meaningful relationships and be able to identify myself in the other person's shoe.

I think I know exactly what you mean, and I feel very much identified.
Perhaps, true maturity begins when we start to notice those things in us. And the search for balance is fundamental, because let's not forget that empathy, the understanding of others, is related to the understanding of oneself.
At least in my personal process, only when I started to accept myself, to forgive myself for being imperfect, to not be so hard on myself, I started to be kinder and more understanding with others.
That is how I began to understand the nature of "Forgiveness", which is something very deep and transcendent in the path.

[ Ziutek said: ... ]

In my opinion, most people confuse the ego and with their personality, which is something acquired while following the path of life.
I lean towards Gurdjieff's concept of personality and essence. Where the essence is (in my opinion) the true ego developed while gathering true information and forms a "second body" while crystallizing based on truth. And this "EGO" is as desirable as possible.

I hope I made myself clear.

Of course it is very clear what you said, and it is very important.
As I said before, the fact of putting the subject of the "Ego" in discussion, is only for the purpose of knowing a little more about the concepts that are handled in the world.
For "Working on the Self", Gurdjieff's concept of "Personality and Essence" is absolutely wonderful!
In fact, his entire work is a treasure.
I say this with emotion, and with "Laura's Work" the same thing happens to me.
Continuing with the theme, you spoke of a "second body", which develops based on the Truth. "That is very good.
Perhaps a person who develops this second body, will gradually diminish his illusion of separation, and will increase his individuality, in the sense of autonomy, greater "free will", etc.
This is not separation.
This is to achieve :
"Self-awareness", a fundamental and perhaps main lesson in 3D.
I almost forgot to comment on something I wanted to:

[ Truepositive said: ... ]

There is a philosophical core to this topic that comes down to an issue that 'cannot be fixed'. The paradox of being the whole and a part at the same time. Ontology and epistemology requires distinction. If there is no difference between things or objects, then it is not possible to describe anything. If 'destroying the ego' (whatever that means exactly) would put someone in a '(permanent) state of unity with the whole universe' they would logically no longer be able to speak our language because of a lack of distinction, so that's not quite how it works apparently.

You touched on a fascinating subject.
It is my understanding that the paradoxes that present themselves to us, have their complete resolution in densities higher than our own.
However one can go about thinking, imagining possibilities, creating new paths of reasoning, that while we will not resolve the paradox completely, we will develop non-linear thinking, which is highly necessary.
I suppose that paradoxes originate due to the following fact:
We are experiencing physical existence and that, implies "Duality".

Thank you very much guys.
Best regards. :flowers:
 
Perhaps, true maturity begins when we start to notice those things in us. And the search for balance is fundamental, because let's not forget that empathy, the understanding of others, is related to the understanding of oneself.
At least in my personal process, only when I started to accept myself, to forgive myself for being imperfect, to not be so hard on myself, I started to be kinder and more understanding with others.
That is how I began to understand the nature of "Forgiveness", which is something very deep and transcendent in the path.
In my journey, it is in my path for self-love, where forgiveness also is essential. I have to forgive myself countless times and to not fall into self-pity is also a struggle in the process. The ego helped me to center/balance myself in my relationships now, i.e., accepting the person fully and holding space for them without having to sabotage myself. 🍀
 

Menna

The Living Force
All things have their purpose, their role, their raison d'être, as we already know.
So, if we already know it, why do we sometimes seem not to know it?
Are our habitual way of thinking the walls of our cage?

An example of what I mean is the following:

By distraction, by new age concepts, by mental laziness, or by whatever, the Ego is being considered as an absolutely negative thing.
To the point that many have proposed to destroy or eradicate it from their lives, believing that this is a great achievement in their spiritual path.
In my opinion, this strengthens the walls or bars of our personal cage.

For what has been said before, I firmly believe that instead of trying to destroy the Ego, it would be more productive and unblocking to find its true role.

In that search, I ask myself some questions that may be part of the answers:

How could anyone, experience life as an individual, with free will, with the possibility of deciding, with the possibility of knowing himself, if he did not know that he is he, and the neighbor who is mowing the lawn is the neighbor who is mowing the lawn?

Undoubtedly there is something in Creation, which makes us distinguish, and know that I am not the other.
Could that something in Creation be the Ego?
Perhaps yes, and if it is, I suppose it will have other functions besides.
What I do know is that Ego is not the same as Egocentrism.

Although separation is an illusion, this illusion is real, and is part of the characteristics of this temporary adventure, in which we are by our own will.

It is logical and natural that when we feel separated, the trauma is very great, giving rise to all kinds of things, including Egocentrism.
Because of this and the above, other questions arise and in order to raise them, I will use the resource of personification.

Personifying the Ego I ask myself:

Are we putting the Ego in the government of our life, and by not being that its true role, it governs us in a disastrous way?

If we ourselves are encouraged to govern ourselves, won't it be much better?
I think so, but it would be good to have your vision on these issues, which need more light to see them better.

Thank you.
Best regards.
Evolving would be the word I would use much like transcending ... eradicating or destroying is too much of an active force and the life I want to create doesn't involve destroy in this context... Transend, evolve, improve and progress are term I like to use when talking about these topics...Gaining knowledge and applying is not a destroying action...
 
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