Marsha West - Right Wing Fundie - attacks Carl Jung


Jedi Master
Hello everyone, I haven't contributed to this forum for a while now, I decided that I had to really understand certain subjects I haven't looked into much before I can contribute properly.

I purchased a book a short while ago called "The secret of the golden flower" by Richard Wilhelm and with commentaries by Carl Jung, I found the text fascinating, and I appreciated Jung's attempt to delve into this world of Eastern Metaphysics, which even the author states at the beginning is a potentially dangerous and tricky path to go down. Anyway, I haven't read all of it, nor have I come close to understanding it yet, so I will be putting more here as I understand it better, but in the meantime I have a simple question:
I mean, has someone here read it?
One interesting idea I came across was regarding western "cult mongers" as he calls them, saying that it's very easy for westerners to hold onto certain "truths" like "We are all one" and purposefully ignore scientific observation in favour of faith. In the book it says that Eastern metaphysical ideas tend to poison the scientific reasoning established in the west. It doesn't mean the East didn't test and research the subject, it's just that they could only do it through using their own bodies as a laboratory, and what affected the body and in what way was noted and compiled for thousands of years. The west however takes this information as authority and changes it into new age thinking instead of using science to test it. The author doesn't recommend this kind of attitude at all, which is why I appreciated their efforts, even if there are pitfalls in their investigation (I'd expect that since they didn't know about the dynamics of hyper dimensional manipulation and studies of psychopathy like the people behind this site, not to mention the subject of psychology is a constantly evolving study), I'm still wondering if there are valuable ideas in this book given that they were aware of cultural differences and translation problems.
Anyway, the primary reason why I decided to ask is because of one of the articles I read on the signs page that fostered questions regarding the legitimacy of Jung's work, the article is traced back to this site, Titled: Carl Jung: Psychologist or sorcerer?

Now, when I was reading the article I thought the author was very dismissive of his work, and a strong Christian slant that I find a bit dubious, I'll give some examples...
Marsha West writes:
If Burney's assertion is correct, and the human race isn't sinful, then the Bible is nothing more than myths and fables -- and Jesus was a nut job for declaring He was the Son of God who came into the world to die for the sins of all mankind. Jesus clearly taught that we are sinners, with a capital S, and "fall short of the glory of God." Sin was the reason Jesus went to the cross. His death was payment for mankind's sin debt. Thus He threw open the gates of heaven, and all who believe in Him will be reconciled to God. If it's true that we are merely "Spiritual Beings having a human experience" as Burney claims, the Son of God would have had no reason to leave His throne in heaven and come to Earth. Which is Burney's whole point! If we're not sinners, we have no need of a Saviour!

There is a clear belief in the author's writing of a Christian doctrine, as in the idea that Jesus came here to die on the cross and all that... So I question the validity of the author's accusations when the author hasn't looked into Esoteric Christianity. I mean, just speaking for myself here, but so far I've only found amazing parallels between eastern esoteric concepts and western esoteric Christianity, since they basically come from the same source, so using mainstream Christianity (Which is essentially a lie) to counter Jung's work seems a bit ridiculous.
West writes:
Which brings me back to Carl Jung. As I mentioned above, Jung was considered a "spiritual thinker," albeit his lofty ideas came from Eastern mysticism, not Christianity or Judaism. The man was no ordinary psychologist by any stretch. Actually, he thought of himself as a "spiritist." According to Elliot Miller, "The movement that Jung initiated is much closer in nature to a neopagan (Aryan) cult than the scientific psychiatric discipline that it has always claimed to be. It is not just religious but a religion." And a pagan religion at that!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Jung's intention was to initiate this "religion" at all; in fact, the way people have applied eastern concepts using his psychological theories was exactly what the author of "the secret of the golden flower" advises against in this book!
West writes:
Jung was deeply involved with his mother and two female cousins in hypnotically induced séances. He was also involved in alchemy, fortune telling, and channelling spirits. All are occult practices. To be involved in any of this is to go against God. Ponder this for a moment.

Hmmm, ok, by this author's logic, perhaps the Cassiopaean experiment should be tossed into the flames as well, since channelling is to go against God.
West writes:
Further, Jung believed not that good should overcome evil; good should be integrated with evil in order to achieve wholeness. "The homosexual who has the courage to 'come out', for example, is welcoming and integrating the darker and 'opposite-sex side of the personality. There can be no moral condemnation when wholeness is achieved."

This is a very confusing issue that has been misunderstood by the majority of new agers IMHO, the idea that light should co-operate with darkness. According to the philosophy of Tai Chi combat, you never attack or fight against someone who wants to cause you physical harm, instead, you work with him by adapting to his force in a non resisting way so that his energy leads into nothingness or goes back into him. This concept likens to what I read in political Ponerology about using the approach of the naturalist to study evil, we calmly study the disease without getting infected by it, when a psychopath acts, he inevitably becomes a valuable tool for learning, A psychopath can't help but act in the way he does, just like if you intend to attack someone, you are always doing it out of fear. It doesn't matter if one trains in the best martial art for 50 years, if the reason why you train is rooted in anger, hate or any egotistic reasons, you'll always lose to the one who trains for peace and calm. Just like it doesn't matter how clever the psychopath is, he may be the most intelligent person in the world, but is his intentions are ultimately STS, he will give himself away if we understand how the psychopath behaves. In other words, the Psychopath (attacker) acts, and through using their own inability to co-operate, you use their force against them through non-action, because without their action, there is peace. In this sense, you are co-operating with darkness. I think that's what he means by "integrating" light with dark. Many "Cult mongers" grossly misrepresent this and suggest one should fall asleep and let the attacker do what he wants to you, which likens to me giving a hug to someone throwing a punch at me. Which is foolish of course.
West writes:
If someone claims to be a Christian and yet embraces an incompatible, non-Christian pluralistic worldview, he/she has not received the Spirit of God.

Sounds to me like the classic "you are either with us or against us" idea...
Why is this article being used? I don't understand why this author's opinions should be worth the consideration of people in this teaching...

Again, I don't know enough about Jung to know if it is valid and useful or now, so if someone has had experience with Jung's interpretation of Eastern Metaphysics, I'd appreciate the feedback.
That thing this Marsha woman wrote is flawed all over the place!!!!! I bet my life this woman never read anything by Carl Gustav Jung! Her ignorance is utterly ridiculus! I am sure the SOTT guysput it up just as an indication of what one might find out there on the net jungle.

Just a few points (for anyone unfamiliar with CGJ)

marsha said:
For those who have never heard of him, he was the foremost pioneer of dream analysis, which is the process of assigning meaning to dreams.
2 mistakes: Freud was the pioneer in dream analysis, which is a process of exploring the unconscious elements of the psyche and bringing them into the light of consciousness for psychic integration to come about. Much like how art therapy is working.

Marsha said:
The inspiration came to Jung from contacting the spirit realm. Jung claimed that his spirit guide, Philemon (more on "it" later), was a source of information that gave him crucial insights.
I have read many books of Jung and i don't remember any Philemon! His source of information was his years of studying and researching the human psyche, his work with his clients, his own self-observation, self reflection.

masha said:
Which brings me back to Carl Jung. As I mentioned above, Jung was considered a "spiritual thinker," albeit his lofty ideas came from Eastern mysticism, not Christianity or Judaism. The man was no ordinary psychologist by any stretch. Actually, he thought of himself as a "spiritist." According to Elliot Miller, "The movement that Jung initiated is much closer in nature to a neopagan (Aryan) cult than the scientific psychiatric discipline that it has always claimed to be. It is not just religious but a religion." And a pagan religion at that!
Carl Jung studied psychiatry and is the founder of Analytical psychology, which is the only "movement" one can say Jung initiated, and yes, you can become member of that "cult" after you finish your first and second degree in psychology and then spend 6-7 years of studies, intense therapy, and practical experience to become an analytical psychologist. He studied all religions and occult and pagan literature because of his interest in the phenomena that science was not able to explain and because many paranormal experiences and symbols he saw in the hallucinations, dreams and experinces of his psychotic clients.

She never even provides references. Where from is she quoting Jung?

I am done. She's too much!

Novelis, i am a big fun of Jung, i find his work priceless in understanding human psychology, and he tried all his life to bring together science and spirituality, to understand spiritual matters from a scientific point of view. I bet if he was alive today, he would be very fascinated to come upon this site, to become a member of QFG, to read Secret History and Political Ponerology. You don't have to like him Novelis, not even to believe everything he says. He never even came to conclusions himself of what i understand, he was always open to find something new, something more, to understand better. In no way Carl Jung would ever wish or want in any way to spread disinformation. What he records are his findings after labour and conscious effort. What i am really saying is, don't be afraid to read Jung. You can only profit from him IMO.
Thanks Irini, that's a great help.
When reading the book my instincts were telling me that Jung really knows what he is talking about, but psychology is one of the avenues I haven't really ventured into yet, so I want to be cautious about this subject, especially knowing how much damage Freud caused in terms of understanding pressing psychological issues now.
I am also reading Richard Wilhelm's book on the I Ching, and was very impressed with Jung's work there, which was what prompted me to get this book "Secret of the golden flower".
Do you have any book recommendations for me so I can understand the fundamentals of Jung's work?
I would recommend The Portable Jung, which he wrote with Joseph Campell. Also his own autobiography, Memories Dreams Reflections, to get to know him better and "where he comes from". Man and his Symbols is a personal favorite, and beautifuly illustrated. For the fundamentals, the first one, especially since he collaborated with Campell to write it. Despite my respect for his work, i find that sometimes he can get his reader "lost" in his words.
Perhaps others on this forum have suggestions too.
This Marsha West person is a clear example of a totally Ponerized person. Here is a chapter from Lobaczewski's book, Political Ponerology: The Science of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes" where the problem is described, and references made to the work of Jung:

Lobaczewski said:

In the 1870s, a tempestuous event occurred: a search for the hidden truth about human nature was initiated as a secular movement based on biological and medical progress, thus its cognition originated in the material sphere. From the very outset, many researchers had a vision of the great future role of this science for the good of peace and order. However, since it relegated prior knowledge to the spiritual sphere, any such approach to the human personality was necessarily one-sided. People like Ivan Pavlov, C.G. Jung, and others soon noticed this one-sidedness and attempted to reach a synthesis. Pavlov, however, was not allowed to state his convictions in public.

Psychology is the only science wherein the observer and the observed belong to the same species, even to the same person in an act of introspection. It is thus easy for subjective error to steal into the reasoning process of the thinking person's commonly used imaginings and individual habits. Error then often bites its own tail in a vicious circle, thus giving rise to problems due to the lack of distance between observer and observed, a difficulty unknown in other disciplines.

Some people, such as the behaviorists, attempted to avoid the above error at all costs. In the process, they impoverished the cognitive contents to such an extent that there was very little matter left. However, they produced a very profitable discipline of thought. Progress was very often elaborated by persons simultaneously driven by internal anxieties and searching for a method of ordering their own personalities via the road of knowledge and self-knowledge. If these anxieties were caused by a defective upbringing, then overcoming these difficulties gave rise to excellent discoveries. However, if the cause for such anxieties rested within human nature, it resulted in a permanent tendency to deform the understanding of psychological phenomena. Within this science, progress is unfortunately very contingent upon the individual values and nature of its practitioners. It is also dependent upon the social climate. Wherever a society has become enslaved to others or to the rule of an overly-privileged native class, psychology is the first discipline to suffer from censorship and incursions on the part of an administrative body which starts claiming the last word as to what represents scientific truth.

Thanks to the work of outstanding pathfinders, however, the scientific discipline exists and continues to develop in spite of all these difficulties; it is useful for the life of society. Many researchers fill in the gaps of this science with detailed data which function as a corrective to the subjectivity and vagueness of famous pioneers. The childhood ailments of any new discipline persist, including a lack of general order and synthesis, as does the tendency to splinter into individual schools, expounding upon certain theoretical and practical achievements, at the cost of limiting themselves in other areas.

At the same time, however, findings of a practical nature are gleaned for the good of people who need help. The direct observations furnished by everyday work of therapists in the field are more instrumental in forming scientific comprehension and developing the language of contemporary psychology than any academic experiments or deliberations undertaken in a laboratory. After all, life itself provides variegated conditions, whether comfortable or tragic, which subject human individuals to experiments no scientist in any laboratory would ever undertake. This very volume exists because of studies, in the field, of inhuman experimentation upon entire nations.

Experience teaches a psychologist's mind how to track another person's life quickly and effectively, discovering the causes that conditioned the development of his personality and behavior. Our minds can thus also reconstruct those factors which influenced him, although he himself may be unaware of them. In doing this, we do not, as a rule, use the natural structure of concepts, often referred to as "common sense" relied upon by public opinion and many individuals. Rather, we use categories which are as objective as we can possibly achieve. Psychologists utilize conceptual language with descriptions of phenomena that are independent of any common imaginings, and this is an indispensable tool of practical activity. In practice, however, it usually turns into clinical slang rather than the distinguished scientific language it would behoove us to foster. An analogy can be drawn between this conceptual language of psychology and mathematical symbols. Very often, a single Greek letter stands for many pages of mathematical operations which is instantly recognized by the mathematician.



If there were ever such a thing as a country with a communist structure as envisaged by Karl Marx, wherein the working people's leftist ideology would be the basis for government, which, I believe, would be stern, but not bereft of healthy humanistic thought, the contemporary social, bio-humanistic, and medical sciences would be considered valuable and be appropriately developed and used for the good of the working people. Psychological advice for youth and for persons with various personal problems would naturally be the concern of the authorities and of society as a whole. Seriously ill patients would have the advantage of correspondingly skillful care.

However, quite the opposite is the case within a pathocratic structure.

When I came to the West, I met people with leftist views who unquestioningly believed that communist countries existed in more or less the form expounded by American versions of communist political doctrines. These persons were almost certain that psychology and psychiatry must enjoy freedom in those countries referred to as communist, and that matters were similar to what was mentioned above. When I contradicted them, they refused to believe me and kept asking why, "why isn't it like that?" What can politics have to do with psychiatry?

My attempts to explain what that other reality looks like met with the difficulties we are already familiar with, although some people had previously heard about the abuse of psychiatry. However, such "whys" kept cropping up in conversation, and remained unanswered.

The situation in these scientific areas, of social and curative activities, and of the people occupied in these matters, can only be comprehended once we have perceived the true nature of pathocracy in the light of the ponerological approach.

Let us thus imagine something which is only possible in theory, namely, that a country under pathocratic rule is inadvertently allowed to freely develop these sciences, enabling a normal influx of scientific literature and contacts with scientists in other countries. Psychology, psychopathology, and psychiatry would flourish abundantly and produce outstanding representatives.

What would the result be?

This accumulation of proper knowledge would, within a very short time, enable the undertaking of investigations whose meaning we already understand. Missing elements and insufficiently investigated questions would be complemented and deepened by means of the appropriate detailed research. The diagnosis of the pathocratic state of affairs would then be elaborated within the first dozen or so years of the formation of the pathocracy, especially if the latter is imposed. The basis of the deductive rationale would be significantly wider than anything the author can present here, and would be illustrated by means of a rich body of analytical and statistical material.
Once transmitted to world opinion, such a diagnosis would quickly become incorporated into it that opinion, forcing naive political and propaganda doctrines out of societal consciousness. It would reach the nations that were the objects of the pathocratic empire's expansionist intentions. This would render the usefulness of any such propagandized ideology as a pathocratic Trojan horse doubtful at best.

In spite of differences among them, other countries with normal human systems would be united by characteristic solidarity in the defense of an understood danger, similar to the solidarity linking normal people living under pathocratic rule.

This consciousness, popularized in the countries affected by this phenomenon, would simultaneously reinforce psychological resistance on the part of normal human societies and furnish them with new measures of self defense.

Can any pathocratic empire risk permitting such a possibility?

In times when the above-mentioned disciplines are developing swiftly in many countries, the problem of preventing such a psychiatric threat becomes a matter of "to be or not to be" for pathocracy. Any possibility of such a situation emerging must thus be staved off prophylactically and skillfully, both within and without the empire. At the same time, the empire is able to find effective preventive measures thanks to its consciousness of being different as well as that specific psychological knowledge of psychopaths with which we are already familiar, partially reinforced by academic knowledge.

Both inside and outside the boundaries of countries affected by the above-mentioned phenomenon, a purposeful and conscious system of control, terror, and diversion is thus set to work.

Any scientific papers published under such governments or imported from abroad must be monitored to ascertain that they do not contain any data which could be harmful to the pathocracy. Specialists with superior talent become the objects of blackmail and malicious control. This of course causes the results to become inferior with reference to these areas of science.

The entire operation must of course be managed in such a way as to avoid attracting the attention of public opinion in countries with normal human structures. The effects of such a "bad break" could be too far-reaching. This explains why people caught doing investigative work in this area are destroyed without a sound and suspicious persons are forced abroad to become the objects of appropriately organized harassment campaigns there.

Battles are thus being fought on secret fronts which may be reminiscent of the Second World War. The soldiers and leaders fighting in various theaters were not aware that their fate depended on the outcome of that other war, waged by scientists and other soldiers, whose goal was preventing the Germans from producing the atom bomb. The Allies won that battle, and the United States became the first to possess this lethal weapon. For the present, however, the West keeps losing scientific and political battles on this new secret front. Lone fighters are looked upon as odd, denied assistance, or forced to work hard for their bread. Meanwhile, the ideological Trojan horse keeps invading new countries.

An examination of the methodology of such battles, both on the internal and the external fronts, points to that specific pathocratic knowledge so difficult to comprehend in the light of the natural language of concepts. In order to be able to control people and those relatively non-popularized areas of science, one must know, or be able to sense, what is going on and which fragments of psychopathology are most dangerous. The examiner of this methodology thus also becomes aware of the boundaries and imperfections of this self-knowledge and practice, i.e. the other side's weaknesses, errors, and gaffes, and may manage to take advantage of them.

In nations with pathocratic systems, supervision over scientific and cultural organizations is assigned to a special department of especially trusted people, a "Nameless Office" composed almost entirely of relatively intelligent persons who betray characteristic psychopathic traits. These people must be capable of completing their academic studies, albeit sometimes by forcing examiners to issue generous evaluations. Their talents are usually inferior to those of average students, especially regarding psychological science. In spite of that, they are rewarded for their services by obtaining academic degrees and positions and are allowed to represent their country's scientific community abroad. As especially trusted individuals, they are allowed to not participate in local meetings of the party, and even to avoid joining it entirely. In case of need, they might then pass for non-party. In spite of that, these scientific and cultural superintendents are well known to the society of normal people, who learn the art of differentiation rather quickly. They are not always properly distinguished from agents of the political police; although they consider themselves to be in a better class than the latter, they must nevertheless cooperate with them.

We often meet with such people abroad, in the countries of normal people, where various foundations and institutes give them scientific grants with the conviction that they are thereby assisting the development of proper knowledge in countries under "communist" governments. These benefactors do not realize that they are rendering a disservice to such science and to real scientists by allowing the supervisors to attain a certain semi-authentic authority, and by allowing them to become more familiar with whatever they shall later deem to be dangerous.
After all, those people shall later have the power to permit someone to take a doctorate, embark upon a scientific career, achieve academic tenure, and become promoted. Very mediocre scientists themselves, they attempt to knock down more talented persons, governed both by self-interest and that typical jealousy which characterizes a pathocrat's attitude toward normal people. They will be the ones monitoring scientific papers for their "proper ideology" and attempting to ensure that a good specialist will be denied the scientific literature he needs.

Controls are exceptionally malicious and treacherous in the psychological sciences in particular, for reasons now understandable to us. Written and unwritten lists are compiled for subjects that may not be taught, and corresponding directives are issued to appropriately distort other subjects. This list is so vast in the area of psychology that nothing remains of this science except a skeleton picked bare of anything that might be subtle or penetrating.

A psychiatrist's required curriculum contains neither the minimal knowledge from the areas of general, developmental, and clinical psychology, nor the basic skills in psychotherapy. Due to such a state of affairs, the most mediocre or privileged of physicians become a psychiatrist after a course of study lasting only weeks. This opens the door of psychiatric careers to individuals who are by nature inclined to serving the pathocratic authority, and it has fateful repercussions upon the level of the treatment. It later permits psychiatry to be abused for purposes for which it should never be used.

Since they are undereducated, these psychologists then prove helpless in the face of many human problems, especially in cases where detailed knowledge is needed. Such knowledge must then be acquired on one's own, a feat not everyone is able to manage.

Such behavior carries in its wake a good deal of damage and human injustice in areas of life which have nothing whatsoever to do with politics. Unfortunately, however, such behavior is necessary from the pathocrat's point of view in order to prevent these dangerous sciences from jeopardizing the existence of a system they consider the best of all possible worlds.

Specialists in the areas of psychology and psychopathology would find an analysis of this system of prohibitions and recommendations to be highly interesting. This makes it possible to realize that this may be one of the roads via which we can reach the crux of the matter or the nature of this macrosocial phenomenon. The prohibitions engulf depth psychology, the analysis of the human instinctive substratum, together with analysis of dreams.

As already pointed out in the chapter introducing some indispensable concepts, an understanding of human instinct is a key to understanding man; however, a knowledge of said instinct's anomalies also represents a key to understanding pathocracy.

Although used ever more rarely in psychological practice, dream analysis shall always remain the best school of psychological thought; that makes it dangerous by nature. Consequently, even research on the psychology of mate selection is frowned upon, at best.

The essence of psychopathy may not, of course, be researched or elucidated. Darkness is cast upon this matter by means of an intentionally devised definition of psychopathy which includes various kinds of character disorders, together with those caused by completely different and known causes. This definition must be memorized not only by every lecturer in psychopathology, psychiatrist, and psychologist, but also by some political functionaries with no education in that area.

This definition must be used in all public appearances whenever it is for some reason impossible to avoid the subject. However, it is preferable for a lecturer in such areas to be someone who always believes whatever is most convenient in his situation, and whose intelligence does not predestine him to delve into subtle differentiations of a psychological nature.

It is also worth pointing out here that the chief doctrine of said system reads "Existence defines consciousness". As such, it belongs to psychology rather than to any political doctrine. This doctrine actually contradicts a good deal of empirical data indicating the role of hereditary factors in the development of man's personality and fate. Lecturers may refer to research on identical twins, but only in a brief, cautious, and formal fashion. Considerations on this subject may, however, not be published in print.

We return once more to this system's peculiar psychological "genius" and its self-knowledge. One might admire how the above mentioned definitions of psychopathy effectively blocks the ability to comprehend phenomena covered therein. We may investigate the relationships between these prohibitions and the essence of the macrosocial phenomenon they in fact mirror. We may also observe the limits of these skills and the errors committed by those who execute this strategy. These shortcomings are skillfully taken advantage of for purposes of smuggling through some proper knowledge on the part of the more talented specialists, or by elderly people no longer fearful for their careers or even their lives.

The "ideological" battle is thus being waged on territory completely unperceived by scientists living under governments of normal human structures and attempting to imagine that other reality. This applies to all people denouncing "Communism", as well as those for whom this ideology has become their faith.

Shortly after arriving in the U.S.A. , I was handed a newspaper by a young black man on some street in Queens, N.Y. I reached for my purse, but he waved me off; the paper was free.

The front page showed a picture of a young and handsome Brezhnev decorated with all the medals he did not in fact receive until much later. On the last page, however, I found a quite well-worked-out summary of investigations performed at the University of Massachusetts on identical twins raised separately. These investigations furnished empirical indications for the important role of heredity, and the description contained a literary illustration of the similarity of the fates of twin pairs. How far "ideologically disorientated" the editors of this paper must have been to publish something which could never have appeared in the area subjected to a supposedly Communist system.

In that other reality, the battlefront crosses every study of psychology and psychiatry, every psychiatric hospital, every mental health consultation center, and the personality of everyone working in these areas. What takes place there: hidden thrust-and-parry duels, a smuggling through of true scientific information and accomplishments, and harassment.

Some people become morally derailed under these conditions, whereas others create a solid foundation for their convictions and are prepared to undertake difficulty and risk in order to obtain honest knowledge so as to serve the sick and needy. The initial motivation of this latter group is thus not political in character, since it derives from their good will and professional decency. Their consciousness of the political causes of the limitations and the political meaning of this battle is raised later, in conjunction with experience and professional maturity, especially if their experience and skills must be used in order to save persecuted people.

In the meantime, however, the necessary scientific data and papers must be obtained somehow, taking difficulties and other people's lack of understanding into account. Students and beginning specialists not yet aware of what was removed from the educational curricula attempt to gain access to the scientific data stolen from them. Science starts to be degraded at a worrisome rate once such awareness is missing.


We need to understand the nature of the macrosocial phenomenon as well as that basic relationship and controversy between the pathological system and those areas of science which describe psychological and psychopathological phenomena. Otherwise, we cannot become fully conscious of the reasons for such a government's long published behavior.

A normal person's actions and reactions, his ideas and moral criteria, all too often strike abnormal individuals as abnormal. For if a person with some psychological deviations considers himself normal, which is of course significantly easier if he possesses authority, then he would consider a normal person different and therefore abnormal, whether in reality or as a result of conversive thinking. That explains why such people's government shall always have the tendency to treat any dissidents as "mentally abnormal".

Operations such as driving a normal person into psychological illness and the use of psychiatric institutions for this purpose take place in many countries in which such institutions exist. Contemporary legislation binding upon normal man's countries is not based upon an adequate understanding of the psychology of such behavior, and thus does not constitute a sufficient preventive measure against it.

Within the categories of a normal psychological world view, the motivations for such behavior were variously understood and described: personal and family accounts, property matters, intent to discredit a witness' testimony, and even political motivations. Such defamatory suggestions are used particularly often by individuals who are themselves not entirely normal, whose behavior has driven someone to a nervous breakdown or to violent protest. Among hysterics, such behavior tends to be a projection onto other people of one's own self-critical associations. A normal person strikes a psychopath as a naive, smart-alecky believer in barely comprehensible theories; calling him "crazy" is not all that far away.

Therefore, when we set up a sufficient number of examples of this kind or collect sufficient experience in this area, another more essential motivational level for such behavior becomes apparent. What happens as a rule is that the idea of driving someone into mental illness issues from minds with various aberrations and psychological defects. Only rarely does the component of pathological factors take part in the ponerogenesis of such behavior from outside its agents. Well thought out and carefully framed legislation should therefore require testing of individuals whose suggestions that someone else is psychologically abnormal are too insistent or too doubtfully founded.

On the other hand, any system in which the abuse of psychiatry for allegedly political reasons has become a common phenomenon should be examined in the light of similar psychological criteria extrapolated onto the macrosocial scale. Any person rebelling internally against a governmental system, which shall always strike him as foreign and difficult to understand, and who is unable to hide this well enough, shall thus easily be designated by the representatives of said government as "mentally abnormal", someone who should submit to psychiatric treatment. A scientifically and morally degenerate psychiatrist becomes a tool easily used for this purpose. Thus is born the sole method of terror and human torture unfamiliar even to the secret police of Czar Alexander II.

The abuse of psychiatry for purposes we already know thus derives from the very nature of pathocracy as a macrosocial psychopathological phenomenon. After all, that very area of knowledge and treatment must first be degraded to prevent it from jeopardizing the system itself by pronouncing a dramatic diagnosis, and must then be used as an expedient tool in the hands of the authorities. In every country, however, one meets with people who notice this and act astutely against it.

The pathocracy feels increasingly threatened by this area whenever the medical and psychological sciences make progress. After all, not only can these sciences knock the weapon of psychological conquest right out of its hands; they can even strike at its very nature, and from inside the empire, at that.

A specific perception of these matters therefore bids the pathocracy to be "ideationally alert" in this area. This also explains why anyone who is both too knowledgeable in this area and too far outside the immediate reach of such authorities should be accused of anything that can be trumped up, including psychological abnormality.
Irini said:
That thing this Marsha woman wrote is flawed all over the place!!!!!
I agree, Irini; Marsha displays a poor understanding of both Jung and Christianity. And, as Laura says, "...she is a clear example of a totally Ponerized person."

Marsha said:
The inspiration came to Jung from contacting the spirit realm. Jung claimed that his spirit guide, Philemon (more on "it" later), was a source of information that gave him crucial insights.
Irini said:
I have read many books of Jung and i don't remember any Philemon! His source of information was his years of studying and researching the human psyche, his work with his clients, his own self-observation, self reflection.

This is an image of Philemon that Jung did in one of his notebooks.


Jung also painted a mural-sized image of Philemon on the wall of the chapel he built at Bollingen.

"Philemon and other figures of my fantasies brought home to me the crucial insight that there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their own life." -C.G.Jung
The following text comes from the lovely website of The Philemon Foundation which is currently involved in publishing some of Jung's more obscure, but nonetheless important, works.

Philemon Foundation said:
In 1913, Jung engaged in a lengthy period of self-investigation that he termed the "confrontation with the unconscious." As a form of psychological self-experimentation, he decided to provoke fantasies in a waking state, and thereafter to attempt to interpret their significance and integrate their contents into consciousness. He later called this method "active imagination" and made its use a part of clinical practice and analytic exploration. In retrospect, he stated that the material that emerged during this period, and his attempt to shape and comprehend it, formed the basis for the rest of his work.

Partial accounts of this period may be found in the notes of his seminar given in 1925 on Analytical Psychology, prepared by Cary Baynes, and in Aniela Jaffe's biography of him, Memories, Dream, Reflections, published posthumously in a heavily edited form. In these, Jung narrated some of the decisive experiences and spoke of a few of the fantasy figures he encountered. One of the most significant was Philemon.

In Memories, Jung recalled that Philemon first appeared to him in a dream. In it, Jung saw a sea blue sky, covered by brown clods of earth that appeared to be breaking apart. Out of the blue, he saw an old man with kingfisher wings and the horns of a bull flying across the sky, carrying a bunch of keys. After the dream, Jung painted the image, as he did not understand it. During this intense period, Jung was struck by the synchronicity of finding a dead kingfisher, a bird rarely seen around Zurich, in his garden by the lakeshore. Thereafter, Philemon played an important role in Jung's fantasies. (1) To Jung, he represented superior insight, and was like a guru to him. He would often converse with Philemon as he strolled in the garden of his home in Kuesnacht. To Aniela Jaffe, he recalled, "He was simply a superior knowledge, and he taught me psychological objectivity and the actuality of the soul....He formulated and expressed everything which I had never thought."(2)

Jung's fantasy figure was based on the figure of Philemon who had appeared in Ovid's Metamorphoses and in Goethe's Faust. In the Metamorphoses, Ovid narrates how Jupiter and Mercury went wandering disguised as mortals in the hill country of Phrygia. Searching for somewhere to rest, they were barred from a thousand homes. One old couple, Philemon and Baucis, graciously invited these strangers into their humble cottage. They had been married in this cottage in their youth and had grown old together in it, contentedly accepting their poverty. During the meal they prepared for their guests, the couple noted how their flagon refilled itself automatically as soon as it was emptied. To honor their guests, they offered to kill their only goose. The goose took refuge with the gods, who decreed that it should not be killed. Revealing themselves, the two divinities informed the ancient couple that those around them would be punished, but that they would be spared. With the gods they climbed to safety on a nearby mountain. Upon reaching the top, they could see that the country surrounding their cottage had been flooded, with only their cottage remaining, having been transformed into a splendid temple with columns of marble and a roof of gold. To repay them for their hospitality and kindness, the gods granted the old couple any wish. Their reply was in keeping with their deep humility and reverence: they wished to become priests and serve in this shrine to the gods, and to die at the same time as a testimony to their enduring love. And so it happened, and when they died the gods honored them further by transforming them into trees so that they might continue to live side by side in this way as they had done in their mortal lives.

Om Faust 2, Act V, Goethe has Faust building a city on land reclaimed from the sea. In order to accomplish this task, Faust tells Mephistopheles that he wants Philmon and Baucis, who lived on this land, moved. To Faust's ultimate horror, instead of doing so, Mephistopheles decides to burn their cottage with Philemon and Baucis in it. Goethe's Faust made a tremendous impression on Jung, and held a lifelong significance for him. He felt personally implicated by this destruction of these humble and reverent figures, and felt that it was his responsibility to "attone for this crime, or to prevent its repetition." (3) Healing this Faustian split would become a central theme in Jung's life work.

At his tower in Bollingen, Jung commemorated Philemon. Over the gate he carved the inscription, "Philemonis Sacrum --Fausti Poenitentia" [Philemon's Shrine --Faust's Repentance]. In one of the roomes, he painted a huge mural of the winged Philemon, essentially reproducing the painting from The Red Book which features as our letterhead. In a letter to Paul Schmitt in 1942, Jung wrote: "I have taken over Faust ms my heritage, and moreover as the advocate and aavenger of Philemon and Baucis, who, unlike Faust the superman, are the hosts of the gods in a ruthless and godforsaken age." (4)

1. Jung/Jaffe, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, translated R. & C Winston,(London, Fontana, 1962/1983), p. 207

2. Protocols of Memories, Dreams, Reflections, Library of Congress, pp.23.

3. Memories, Dreams, Reflections, p. 261

4. Ed. Gerhard Adler in collaboration with Aniela Jaffe, C.G. Jung Letters 1: 1906-1950, translated R.F.C. Hull, (London, Routledge, 1973), pp.309-310.
Thanks Graig for clearing that out. After i responded i tried to remember about Philemon, but i haven't been at my house for weeks now, so i couldn't check in my books to verify or not that info and refresh my memory. I kind of got a vague memory that it might be in Memories Dreams Reflections that Philemon is mentioned. Thanks for the pictures too. I suddenly have this "appetite" to delve into Jung books again!
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