Macedonia

[Konstantin]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

There are also these billboards in Skopje: _http://saznajemo.net/novosti/bilbord-o-kome-bruji-skoplje-pogledajte-poruku-srbima-koja-je-mnoge-ostavila-u-cudu/

"Stop to Serbian assimilation of the Macedonian nation"

Behind the billboards stands VMRO National Party, which, according to the Macedonian media, began in that country two parallel campaigns with the idea to "defend and preserve the Macedonian national identity."

I didn't knew that there is some "Serbian assimilation of the Macedonian nation"?

Is that really true, or is it just some kind of pre-election propaganda?

I worked in Skopje in 2001. during the "Tetovo crisis" for a month. My job was to go three times a day from one hotel to another and back by taxi, and some other small tasks. Which means that I've seen and talked to a lot of different people every day. And every time people were very hospitable and supportive when they heard I am from Belgrade. I like Skopje and I feel like at home there.
I would be sad if it's not so friendly anymore.

You are right Argo. There is not any assimilation. Its just a propaganda. Today everybody can print a billboard and put it everywhere he wants . You just have to pay for that :)

I live in Gostivar. Its just 25 Km south of Tetovo and i can say that people are friendly. For example, i`m half a Serbian and Half Macedonian. There are some fanatics like everywhere , but nothing important. And its right that its all just a CIA inside job. All that chaos that is here in all Ex Yu countries. In fact in Skopje , USA have one of the biggest embassy on Balkan. And its complete made of reinforced concrete. The walls, the roof, everything. Its like a fortification, not an embassy. And its placed on a hill , on a perfect strategic place in the center of Skopje. So its all well planed and directed.
And as Yozilla said , its not just reports, its all well planed and then executed. So our so called politicians ( psycho puppets) must always have a "consultation" with USA embassy before and after every decision they make.
You can see who are the real bosses here( all Balkan )
All parties play on nationalism card now in Macedonia to get as much as possible voters for them. Until now who have that card was a winner.That is why is all this happening. Otherwise there are no party who can offer a true solutions for the problems of regular and normal people here. Its just a distraction to preserve their positions of power and nothing more. As long as there are people who will fall on this manipulation , they will repeat the same.

 

[Corvus]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

Yup Bosses are stirring up chaos in the region. Being aware of that for a while, after reading about some leaked CIA report for Western embassies in ex-YU states in which was claimed that in Croatia there is the greatest possibility for turmoil. Of course they didn't only detect it - also they planned it...

Do you have any link?

 

[Yozilla]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

It was on udarno.com site some time ago... i am not sure that it's thr exact article but after searching on that site i find two results:

_http://www.udarno.com/eu-predvida-revoluciju-u-hrvatskoj-koju-su-predvidali-prije-dvije-godine

_http://www.udarno.com/cia-moguca-revolucija

FWIW

Y

 

[Corvus]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

It was on udarno.com site some time ago... i am not sure that it's thr exact article but after searching on that site i find two results:

_http://www.udarno.com/eu-predvida-revoluciju-u-hrvatskoj-koju-su-predvidali-prije-dvije-godine

_http://www.udarno.com/cia-moguca-revolucija

FWIW

Thanks.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

Turmoil will be in Serbia in a few months. But without the CIA's help this time. Maybe they will try to make something of it, but will not succed in that.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

Turmoil will be in Serbia in a few months. But without the CIA's help this time. Maybe they will try to make something of it, but will not succed in that.

Not only in Serbia,but also in the region at all.We have to wait to see what is prepared in the 'kitchen' this time.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

I was saying actually that I think that this time “the kitchen” would not be involved. I am talking only for Serbia. IF there would be something in the first place. I am living in Serbia, so I can talk only for Serbia. People here were direct victims of the colored revolution, so they are very aware of it and very cautious. “The kitchen” could try to use it, but their effort will not be successful. People are a little bit more matured now.


While the outer; or external factors could look the same for all of the ex-Yugoslav countries, internal factors are different. Internal factors would be how people react to those external factors. What people think on the BS that their governments (who all are working for the same boss) try to impose on them. For example: Serbia and Macedonia have the similar economic situation, which affect how people react to the whole situation around them. Macedonians see their government as thieves, but still macedonian, and everything would be better if economical situation would be better. In Serbia, even if the economical situation would be better, people still would see government as traitors and essentially just as agents of the western occupational forces (something strange, something that don’t have anything in common with the people) In Serbia when government is totally disconnected from the people (or when the people see situation like that, and that is now) that is the end of the government.


In Serbia, people see themselves as a collective (fact very much used by the external forces) and have strong need for identification with its government. Which means that when the new government comes to power and start to do their job at the first time people referring to them as “we are doing good”, as times goes by and the government starts to do bad things people becomes self critical and self ironic “we are bad” and “that’s because we are that sort of people”, and as government alienates themselves from that “we” feeling, people are starting to think of it as “they” versus “us, the people” (situation like this now), and that is the end of the government. For example, Slobodan Milosevic was never alienated, and never seen as something strange (today’s government is), he wouldn’t be overthrown if economic situation was better.


In Croatia, for example, the biggest issue is the economic factor, but only because they lived, and still live better than, for example, Serbia or Macedonia. They are in the way of thinking just as Serbia was some 15 years ago. This tells that they still have some rough times ahead of them to realize all of that. (How they are being duped and used, something that people in neighboring countries are more aware.)


With all respect, when I, as someone who live in Serbia and gone through all the turmoil the people in Serbia had got through, see the way of thinking of people in other ex-yu countries, I can only conclude that they still have some things to go through, and still some bad things to see and comprehend in order to come to think for themselves. And to realize that those “external factors” actually have nothing to do with them, and to start to detach themselves from what is being impose on them under the mask of “nationality” or “better life”.

Notice that I am not saying that Serbia (since I live there) is better than any other country in the region in any sense! I am just saying that Serbia, unfortunately, have more experience than all the others.


On the end; generally speaking, not only on our situation; there is original feeling of anger and original wish to do something. And that feeling is not bad, despite the entire BS that the new agers are talking and trying to convince people about it. That feeling is misused by “the kitchen”, but that does not mean that we must stop feeling it and act according to it. We just must be smarter, and see more. Which also corresponds to the experience with the anger gained so far.

 

[casper]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

For Avala:
People in Croatia are aware of what the government does and the people in power, do not make misleading newspaper reports and reports on the evening news, I think it's because more and more people took to various protests, economic perishing every day more and more, into debt with interest that do not make sense, we sell all it's worth, ... sound familiar?

 

[Nević Nenad]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

It doesn’t sounds familiar. In Serbia the personal debt is not big problem, because there were only minority of the people who could take some credits and similar at the first place. Majority is so poor that they don’t have enough assets (their salaries or land/houses) to give as credits assurance. Serbia was already destroyed and impoverished by the western sanctions during the 1990’s and with the NATO bombing in 1999. So bank debts in Serbia are fairly small. There is a HUGE difference in living standard and quality of life among Serbia and Croatia. I am aware that it is largely thanks to credits that Croatians was tricked to take.

The problem today is taking money direct from people’s salaries and pensions (in December they cut 10% of salaries and pensions, which were already so small that it is really hard to survive). The real statistics (not the “official”) are that almost 45% of the people are unemployed, average month salary (who work) is around 250-300 Euros, and pension is around 200-250, with the food prices on the par with the food prices in the EU. No social care or money for the unemployed. When you are unemployed, you are on your own. (Greece sounds as heaven to an average Serb) Serbs survives mostly because the country is largely rural and everyone has someone in the village where he gets foods much cheaper, or with no costs at all, of course.

So, no credits so far, but they are working now to get people to take any (even the smallest in order to have money for the food) credits and get into debts.


But that is not important, the important is how people (in any country) see and feel their government and official politics. As their own or maybe as something that doesn’t have anything in common with them (or is imposed on them by the force).


Edit: I forgot, no protests in Serbia, large or small, or in any significant measure so far, because people are afraid that they could be used. On the other hand the anger is getting bigger by the day.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

When I have read what I wrote I see that I must be shorter and more precise :) I’ll take my case as illustration:

I live from the money of my girlfriend who are professor in the high school and whose salaries is 350 Euros a month, and my mother’s pension which is around 250 Euros, and my occasional small jobs. My girlfriend gives 120 Euros for a rent a month (because a school is in another town, not so far, but it is expensive to travel) and my mother gives for the monthly costs (electricity, power, garbage) for her flat around 120 Euros. Which leave us (in months when I don’t earn nothing, and it happens) with around 350 Euros in total per month. Fortunately we have some land in the village and my girlfriends mother lives in the village so we gets some food from there (there are people who don’t have anyone in the village). So, there is no bank that will give any credit to any of us.

Also, I have idea to send my application for the FOTCM since august/September, but didn’t have 10 Euros for the necessary costs at the time. Since then, every time I had 10 Euros (in total and whole of its glory! :D ) there was some more urgent thing to do with them.

I hope that this illustration cast a little more light on what I am trying to say. :)

 

[Konstantin]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

When I have read what I wrote I see that I must be shorter and more precise :) I’ll take my case as illustration:

I live from the money of my girlfriend who are professor in the high school and whose salaries is 350 Euros a month, and my mother’s pension which is around 250 Euros, and my occasional small jobs. My girlfriend gives 120 Euros for a rent a month (because a school is in another town, not so far, but it is expensive to travel) and my mother gives for the monthly costs (electricity, power, garbage) for her flat around 120 Euros. Which leave us (in months when I don’t earn nothing, and it happens) with around 350 Euros in total per month. Fortunately we have some land in the village and my girlfriends mother lives in the village so we gets some food from there (there are people who don’t have anyone in the village). So, there is no bank that will give any credit to any of us.

Also, I have idea to send my application for the FOTCM since august/September, but didn’t have 10 Euros for the necessary costs at the time. Since then, every time I had 10 Euros (in total and whole of its glory! :D ) there was some more urgent thing to do with them.

I hope that this illustration cast a little more light on what I am trying to say. :)

The 10 Eur for FOTCM application are not necessary. That is just an donation. This was mentioned on the forum. For example if you don't have to donate 10 eur to cover the costs for shipment of the application then somebody else will donate maybe a 20 Eur so with that money the both application costs will be covered.

I have been in the same situation a lot of times. One month i will manage somehow to have a 10-15 Euros for supplements, and then next few months i will be without supplements until i somehow manage to have some money to spent on supplements.To buy a book 15-20 Euros its a luxury that its very hard to afford. So, yes its very hard to live here on the Balkan, and especially the economic situation. Its just a surviving for another day.And the worst is that those who have some kind of jobs, they a literally a slaves. They dont have any rights. They work 10-12 hours a day , even a weekends and overtime, and they only are payed like they are working 5 days a week for 8 hours shift. Situation i desperate and i cant see that it will become better in near future.

 

[Lamadu]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

The 10 Eur for FOTCM application are not necessary. That is just an donation. This was mentioned on the forum. For example if you don't have to donate 10 eur to cover the costs for shipment of the application then somebody else will donate maybe a 20 Eur so with that money the both application costs will be covered.

I have been in the same situation a lot of times. One month i will manage somehow to have a 10-15 Euros for supplements, and then next few months i will be without supplements until i somehow manage to have some money to spent on supplements.To buy a book 15-20 Euros its a luxury that its very hard to afford. So, yes its very hard to live here on the Balkan, and especially the economic situation. Its just a surviving for another day.And the worst is that those who have some kind of jobs, they a literally a slaves. They dont have any rights. They work 10-12 hours a day , even a weekends and overtime, and they only are payed like they are working 5 days a week for 8 hours shift. Situation i desperate and i cant see that it will become better in near future.

Yes, this is completely true. I'm one of those workers who work 50-55 hours per week for a salary of 150 euros. I never buys books, it luxury. I always read only on the internet. 10 euros in Macedonia is a fortune to most of people. However, for very few people this is just one coffee.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

I never buys books, it luxury. I always read only on the internet. 10 euros in Macedonia is a fortune to most of people. However, for very few people this is just one coffee.

Totally agree :(

 

[Nević Nenad]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

Well, I didn’t mean to demoralize anyone! (must be more carefull what I am writing)


Heads up! Nothing good of a low moral! ;)


What counts is that we are alive and trying/learning to be better people. And that is much much more than the majority of the people on Earth will ever have! Not to mention that we have school that provides us with so many opportunities that not many people on Earth has! ;)


Forget books, coffees, that will come or go, it is not important. The important is who you are and what you see.

The 10 Eur for FOTCM application are not necessary. That is just an donation. This was mentioned on the forum. For example if you don't have to donate 10 eur to cover the costs for shipment of the application then somebody else will donate maybe a 20 Eur so with that money the both application costs will be covered.

Thank you. I didn’t know that. I guess I could give it later more (when I will have). Or somehow repay it :)

 

[casper]

Re: Nuland attempts Kiev Version 2.0 in Skopje

I live with my daughter in Istria, she is studying in Rijeka and occasionally works. I do not work, and my last salary was 542 euros, but ...
Utility bills for the apartment are 300 euros, and when you pay rent for an apartment in Rijeka 100 euros, plus its overheads 50 euros (really a modest child), the calculation is awful. I have a small piece of garden and earn a little on the side, survive ...
Welcome to Croatia!