Mechanical Center
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Menna
The Living Force
I know that the magnetic center attracts you to the work but can it help you advance is what I am getting at or does it only bring you to a point.
The FOF didn't work out it was more people getting together trying to be friends no real work being done. Felt weird and awkward they also had habbits that had nothing to do with the work (When you entered a room you had to hug everyone and look into their left eye the eye of essance as "The teacher says"). They kept on pushing wanting me to fly out to california where the center of the school is. Gettng back to reading more and maybe attempting to tr another school.
The FOF didn't work out it was more people getting together trying to be friends no real work being done. Felt weird and awkward they also had habbits that had nothing to do with the work (When you entered a room you had to hug everyone and look into their left eye the eye of essance as "The teacher says"). They kept on pushing wanting me to fly out to california where the center of the school is. Gettng back to reading more and maybe attempting to tr another school.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Menna said:
Not surprised. I figured that would be the outcome, and suggested as such, but you had to find out for yourself. ;) Good sign that you saw it for what it was.
I think you have some concepts confused about the Magnetic center. One must fuse it through the Work - it isn't just 'there' to begin with, in most people. In most people, there is just a confusing mess of positive and negative influences and they go through their life buffered around by external influences. Fusing a Magnetic center takes a LOT of work and conscious suffering. Gnosis goes into some detail about this.
http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Magnetic_Center
http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Fusion
Alada
The Living Force
Menna said:
Maybe its not so helpful to see magnetic centre as a separate 'thing', an 'it'. When magnetic centre is forming/formed its not so much 'it' helping you as you helping yourself. The stronger it becomes is a result of your own efforts, the more you can then act consciously according to your aims, gradually less according to what the machine wants. Even so, still hard to put into practice and forms as part of a process, through efforts rather than being a 'thing' that you 'get' which will then fix things and make life easier via some kind of magical power.
It's the process of forming magnetic centre where one needs others to help. Alone we can do nothing, we can gather lots of information and ideas but we fall asleep all the time and forget to put them into practice. Or, when we try to put them into practice we do it in a wrong way, thinking that we are in fact working in the right way. So we need others, those that have gone before, who know the way and can guide us. Also those who can see us far better than we ever see ourselves and who can provide the necessary alarm clocks for when we once again fall asleep.
Menna, this image is taken from Mouravieff's Gnosis series, and represents the multitude of influences we each encounter and the path of spiritual growth. The diagram and explanations are relevant to your question.
The large circle is the world and the multitude of influences and people that inhabit it.
A influences are represented by the small black arrows, and are the general, common forces and influences we encounter under the law of accident in our everyday life. They head in every direction and lead one nowhere if one attempts to follow them.
The Esoteric Center, represented by the white circle, is a center of knowledge and being that leads to liberation from the law of accident, if one knows how to find it.
B influences are represented by the white arrows, which emanate specifically from the Esoteric Center as a sort of magnetic field.
The common and unenlightened external person is represented by a cross-hatched circle, which stands for the many small I's a person has and the rudderless trajectory of life they wander.
Learning to distinguish A from B influences leads to the formation of the magnetic center inside the person, represented by the small whiteness growing inside the person. This grants one a semblance of direction in searching for the Esoteric Center.
The lines between people of various sizes of magnetic center represent C influences, which are influences that come more or less directly from others who are also on the path to liberation, and have a much better signal-to-noise ratio for searching for the Esoteric Center than the background static that engulfs us every day.
These C influences form a continuous, unbroken chain between a person with a magnetic center who has found a teacher, school, or network, and the Esoteric Center that perfects his development as a person. It is unbroken because, to personally advance in the universe even one rung on the ladder, one must find someone who will replace your previous position lower down on the ladder (otherwise one may advance and leave earth, and those left behind will no longer have a link to the Esoteric Circle). By this same token, one cannot bring an unlimited number of people into the teachings (by means of C influences) without the knowledge and being required for one's further advancement (those who attempt so often speak of things they know little about as a form of self-deception, leading to the corruption of teachings that often characterize mass religious movements).
Now for my own personal take:
Is it possible to reach the Esoteric Center without C influences? I won't go as far as anart because technically it's not impossible; but you must be one of extraordinary insight, sincerity, virtue, will, et cetera. We encounter many B influences in our lives, but it's not an infinite number. If you connected and dialogued with someone on the other side of the planet, and both of you have functional magnetic centers, you both benefit from the B influences each has accumulated in their life. This isn't a matter of addition, but of multiplication; this is because we are not accumulating paper dollars, but triangulating the position of its printing press, so to speak. To reiterate: C influences have a MUCH HIGHER signal-to-noise ratio. From this cost-effectiveness standpoint, you'd be crazy to head out and search for genuine esoteric knowledge on b influences alone.
The large circle is the world and the multitude of influences and people that inhabit it.
A influences are represented by the small black arrows, and are the general, common forces and influences we encounter under the law of accident in our everyday life. They head in every direction and lead one nowhere if one attempts to follow them.
The Esoteric Center, represented by the white circle, is a center of knowledge and being that leads to liberation from the law of accident, if one knows how to find it.
B influences are represented by the white arrows, which emanate specifically from the Esoteric Center as a sort of magnetic field.
The common and unenlightened external person is represented by a cross-hatched circle, which stands for the many small I's a person has and the rudderless trajectory of life they wander.
Learning to distinguish A from B influences leads to the formation of the magnetic center inside the person, represented by the small whiteness growing inside the person. This grants one a semblance of direction in searching for the Esoteric Center.
The lines between people of various sizes of magnetic center represent C influences, which are influences that come more or less directly from others who are also on the path to liberation, and have a much better signal-to-noise ratio for searching for the Esoteric Center than the background static that engulfs us every day.
These C influences form a continuous, unbroken chain between a person with a magnetic center who has found a teacher, school, or network, and the Esoteric Center that perfects his development as a person. It is unbroken because, to personally advance in the universe even one rung on the ladder, one must find someone who will replace your previous position lower down on the ladder (otherwise one may advance and leave earth, and those left behind will no longer have a link to the Esoteric Circle). By this same token, one cannot bring an unlimited number of people into the teachings (by means of C influences) without the knowledge and being required for one's further advancement (those who attempt so often speak of things they know little about as a form of self-deception, leading to the corruption of teachings that often characterize mass religious movements).
Now for my own personal take:
Is it possible to reach the Esoteric Center without C influences? I won't go as far as anart because technically it's not impossible; but you must be one of extraordinary insight, sincerity, virtue, will, et cetera. We encounter many B influences in our lives, but it's not an infinite number. If you connected and dialogued with someone on the other side of the planet, and both of you have functional magnetic centers, you both benefit from the B influences each has accumulated in their life. This isn't a matter of addition, but of multiplication; this is because we are not accumulating paper dollars, but triangulating the position of its printing press, so to speak. To reiterate: C influences have a MUCH HIGHER signal-to-noise ratio. From this cost-effectiveness standpoint, you'd be crazy to head out and search for genuine esoteric knowledge on b influences alone.
obyvatel
The Living Force
whitecoast said:
A pertinent quote from Gurdjieff in ISOTM
[quote author=ISOTM]
The influence of the man who knows the way ( C influence ) upon the first man is a special kind of influence, differing from the former two (A and B ), first of all in being a direct influence, and secondly in being a conscious influence. Influences of the second kind ( B influences ), which create magnetic center, are conscious in their origin but afterwards they are thrown into the general vortex of life, are intermixed with influences created in life itself, and are equally subject to the law of accident. Influences of the third kind ( C influence ) can never be subject to the law of accident; they are themselves outside the law of accident and their action also is outside the law of accident. Influences of the second kind can proceed through books, through philosophical systems, through rituals. Influences of the third kind can proceed only from one person to another, directly, by means of oral transmission.
[/quote]
Menna
The Living Force
Thank you whiteCoast and everyone else I understand it better. A influences might be a song or the smell of food that influences your mood/thought in your or what you are going to have for dinner. B influences I still am a little confused - might they be more conciouse decisions - maybe thinking about the past and not making the same mistake or looking for advice and formulating an opinion and then making a decision. Now C influence is only available from someone who is above you in the work 
(Where to find such people?). Now my question is as I asked this in a meeting with the FOF is there anyone here on Earth who has finished the work and is now living among us? They said no and then my next question is so we are attempting to do something that no one has done before? Even G and O didn't make it with all of their knowledge. Now I am not poo pooing the work I am just trying to get all the information and help that I can. I rarley like to start something where I need or have to depend on another person or people to get it done.
I guess this is just a life long journey and we all have to do our best but with that said it would be nice to know where people who can provide C influences are and for me if someone can provide a real life example of B influences as I am pretty sure I understand what A influences are - advertisements and such
(Where to find such people?). Now my question is as I asked this in a meeting with the FOF is there anyone here on Earth who has finished the work and is now living among us? They said no and then my next question is so we are attempting to do something that no one has done before? Even G and O didn't make it with all of their knowledge. Now I am not poo pooing the work I am just trying to get all the information and help that I can. I rarley like to start something where I need or have to depend on another person or people to get it done. I guess this is just a life long journey and we all have to do our best but with that said it would be nice to know where people who can provide C influences are and for me if someone can provide a real life example of B influences as I am pretty sure I understand what A influences are - advertisements and such
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Menna said:
Not to my understanding. We're talking about external influences here - so a B influence cannot be thinking about something. It is truth, it is an influence of objective reality - take the written works of Gurdjieff, those would be a B influence. B influences are not lies, in a world of lies.
m said:Now C influence is only available from someone who is above you in the work
I would posit that they do not know. A man cannot see above his level. Just because they don't know of such a person does not mean such a person does not exist. They see the world from their level - not above it - to see above it is impossible. Gurdjieff once said that a man often requires only the best teacher for himself - even expects a teacher on the level of Jesus Christ for himself, when his level is so low that any ordinary obvytel would do. Perhaps your lessons are all around you, yet you are looking for something that doesn't match your own level?
m said:
I think it's an enormous error to assume that 'no one has ever done it before', but perhaps the issue is with your definition of 'done it' - what do you think the Work really is? I also think it's going to take time for you to rid yourself of the negative influence of this experience with FOF. If you are engaged in the Work for some pre-supposed outcome, best stop now. The student does not design the school.
Perhaps re-reading the Gnosis trilogy in full might help you a bit?
Menna
The Living Force
Yes that is an assumption that no one has "done it" and by "done it" I mean rid yourself of Ego all the I's - the preditor and to be man number 7 see the world through objectivity and nothing else. I know it is STS to need or want a specific outcome its just that I have no clue where I am in the work, don't know where to go for help or c influences.
