Meyers and Briggs Temperament types

Kila

Jedi
I think there may be discussion of this somewhere but I am not finding it via search in any real sense.

I have been thinking about this lately. Especially in light of the current discussion around critical thinking, and epigenetics and dumbing down the population in general.
I think there are some severe limitations to the Meyers-Briggs system, yet I find certain things interesting.

I'm just going to jump in as if we are all familiar with this system, but I can post more background later, or someone else can.

It would appear that certain temperaments are more 'critical' problem solvers than others, particularly the N types and even more specifically the NT types. The S types being more concerned with the How questions and concrete reality. The N types more attracted to the abstract and conceptual. I also find it interesting that in the demographic studies done it would seem that S types far outnumber N types, the NT types being the least represented. Now what are the genetics behind that? And are those genetics being manipulated in a variety of ways? Also the Feeling types outnumber the Thinking types, and since by and large feeling is simply a biological response, I have long been very interested in the biology of emotions, and wheat and other substances act as opiates stimulating certain emotional states...??? Now if emotions were my 'food' and I was trying to breed and cross breed an animal to more ideally suit my needs in terms of ease of care as well as nutritional value I would want lots of ESFJ's and ESFP's running around which is exactly what we see demographically. I would want to weed out those pesky ENTP's and INTP's those pesky critical Why asking types.
School does a good job at rewarding the SJ's and the SP's to a large extent and the NF's to a lesser degree but the NT's often do very poorly and hate schooling at least until college. Where they find more of their types represented in the Sciences. Of course, they can be corrupted via ego as the NT ego is usually pretty well developed.

On the subject of emotion, the downfall of the NF is the subjective nature of the very intense emotional states, particularly the Introverted types. So, in terms of 'feeding' these types are also pretty tasty. And not really so hard to deal with as they can be manipulated emotionally and tend to avoid objective reason in favor or subjective value judgments. They do tend to ask the Why questions but not in the true objective sense that an NT approaches those same questions.

This whole forum, it would seem, would have very little appeal to an SJ or SP, which by stunning coincidence makes up the bulk of society demographically.

I am wondering if certain temperaments aren't more prone to 'wake up' and aren't selectively being bred out of the population? And if so how? I can see a multitude of ways that society selects for and reward SJ's and SP's . There is very little reward for being an NT in our current world. It is a constant lonely struggle against the 'flow' of culture.

I dunno...

just some random thoughts and questions while smoking...
 
Kila said:
I think there may be discussion of this somewhere but I am not finding it via search in any real sense.

I have been thinking about this lately. Especially in light of the current discussion around critical thinking, and epigenetics and dumbing down the population in general.
I think there are some severe limitations to the Meyers-Briggs system, yet I find certain things interesting.

This reminds me of the "Edge Effect" by Eric R. Braverman M.D. who borrowed (without giving credit) Carl Jung's and Isabel Myers-Briggs' typological approach for personality types for his Braverman Nature Assessment which supposedly correlates each personality types with a particular brain dominance and imbalance. The references were shining by their absence though (I didn't liked that a bit) and looking at the quizzes, I could think of plenty of exceptions to the rules. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone for the sole reason that he we was recommending to take aspartame as means to correct dopamine deficiency... But it was interesting how he brought together the personality types and some biological aspects.

Here is one quote from the book FWIW:

Edge Effect said:
Dopamine natures can push themselves too hard at work.

Loners, depressed people, and chronically introverted have dopamine deficiencies.

If you are intuitive, active cognitive thought processes and high learning capacities, these characteristics have been linked to acetylcholine dominance. Deficiencies of this nature can be associated with attention deficit disorders.

Deficiencies in the dominant biochemical will produce issues concerning metabolism and food cravings in both dopamine and acetylcholine natures, yet a dopamine nature will crave carbohydrates and and an acetylcholine nature will crave richer, fattier foods.
 
Kila said:
Also the Feeling types outnumber the Thinking types, and since by and large feeling is simply a biological response, I have long been very interested in the biology of emotions, and wheat and other substances act as opiates stimulating certain emotional states...??? Now if emotions were my 'food' and I was trying to breed and cross breed an animal to more ideally suit my needs in terms of ease of care as well as nutritional value I would want lots of ESFJ's and ESFP's running around which is exactly what we see demographically. I would want to weed out those pesky ENTP's and INTP's those pesky critical Why asking types.
I am not sure whether you are treating the "feeling type" as people who feel more and have a richer variety of emotions. 4th Way literature from Gurdjieff, Mouravieff stress on the fact that the emotional center of human beings are the least developed and people need to develop their feeling functions in order to wake up and evolve. Dabrowski came to the same conclusions approaching from the point of view of human development from the psychological standpoint saying that authentic human development is possible only when higher emotions (rather than the primitive drives) dictate the functioning of the intellect . So it is very important to distinguish between lower emotions which impede development and higher emotions which aid in development.
Wikipedia has this to say on the feeling and thinking types of MBTI
[quote author=Wikipedia]
Thinking and feeling are the decision-making (judging) functions. The thinking and feeling functions are both used to make rational decisions, based on the data received from their information-gathering functions (sensing or intuition). Those who prefer thinking tend to decide things from a more detached standpoint, measuring the decision by what seems reasonable, logical, causal, consistent and matching a given set of rules. Those who prefer feeling tend to come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it 'from the inside' and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved.
[/quote]
From this description, it would seem that feeling types are more inclined towards empathy which is one of the objective indicators of the presence of the seed of conscience.

[quote author=Kila]
I am wondering if certain temperaments aren't more prone to 'wake up' and aren't selectively being bred out of the population? And if so how? I can see a multitude of ways that society selects for and reward SJ's and SP's . There is very little reward for being an NT in our current world. It is a constant lonely struggle against the 'flow' of culture.
[/quote]
I would think that only people who have the seed of conscience in them can wake up and the MBTI would not be able to indicate the presence of that. Dabrowski called this the "third factor" or the autonomous factor of development - that which enables a person to overcome innate constitutional factors and environmental factors to evolve into a self-determining conscious entity. According to Dabrowski, well developed emotional, intellectual and imaginational functions (Dabrowski called them overexcitabilities) are indicators of the potential of such development and the highest levels of development is possible when the emotional component is the strongest of the three.
Given what we know about the fragmented nature of the personality, personality type studies by themselves do not seem to hold much value in terms of Work on the self and the goal of waking up. If human beings were indeed fortunate enough to be closer to their real essence instead of the false personality, then the type indicators would perhaps have more objective value. As of now with the bulk of humanity in a state of deep sleep, no matter what the type of the person is, there are enough "dreams" suitable to each individual type to perpetuate that sleep. OSIT
 
Helen Fisher is also into matching personality with body chemicals. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Fisher_(anthropologist)

Fisher distinguishes between four personality types each of which she associates with a body chemical.[8] The corresponding Platonic term - as Fisher identified the types herself - and the resulting corresponding Keirsey temperament (according to the speculation of some readers, not Fisher herself) can be seen in parentheses.

explorer (artistic, Artisan [SP] temperament, orange) - dopamine
negotiator (intuitive, Idealist [NF] temperament, blue) - estrogen
director (reasoning, Rational [NT] temperament, green) - testosterone
builder (sensible, Guardian [SJ] temperament, gold) - serotonin

I personally know very little about body chemicals and their associated genes. Supposedly it's not just how much of the chemical that is important for personality but what genes you have for using the chemical. There's certainly a possibility Fisher is wrong.

I do think personality is a lower centers thing but I also think there is more to personality than just your born with MBTI bias. You can mature in traits you are biased against as well as towards (though all else like education, peer pressure, etc. being equal you tend to mature more in traits you are biased towards). According to a John Fudjack idea, the highest maturity level of different traits may be morphing towards the same thing. Also to get to the highest level may require getting there in all traits. Getting to the highest maturity level for one's lower centers personality is perhaps related to connecting to the higher centers. Here are Fudjack's highest maturity level descriptions for four MBTI traits:

At the fifth level of development of the feeling function, the individual begins to experience what Thich Nhat Hahn calls 'interbeing'. At this level it is recognized that in some basic (ie, 'ontological') sense, we are 'one' with each other. The 'individual' is a 'singularity' in the intersubjective field, a construct. We are essentially SOCIAL beings, in the most profound sense of the word.

At the fifth level of development of the thinking function, thought comprehends its own nature, conceiving itself. The 'one' gives birth to itself by turning back on itself - simultaneously becoming container and contained - reflectively telescoping itself out into an infinite series of nested 'chinese boxes' that wraps back around on itself. This capacity to 'act upon one's self' is appreciated as the primordial core around which 'will' and 'intentionality' comes into being, and 'control' over the outside world becomes possible.

At the fifth level of development of the sensing function, the individual is more likely to be able to directly experience the phenomenon of 'embodiment' - from the 'inside out', as it were, as a 'movement' that precedes our perception of the re-ified and alienated 'thing' that we call the 'body'. We observe the 'real' world with the sophisticated eyes of modern science, in its multiple levels of description, as implicate and explicate order.

At the fifth level of development of the intuitive function, the individual participates in the co-creation of the socio-symbolic fields in which she is immersed. An appreciation for complex (and paradoxical) whole-part relationships emerge - holographic, fractal organizations which wrap back around on themselves in such a way that the part 'includes' the whole, and the largest is experienced as 'within' the smallest. An undifferentiated holistic awareness that is not 'object-oriented' is realized and integrated into everyday bifurcated consciousness.

The 4th way Enneagram is also used as a modern personality model and it has been linked to Dopamine, Serotonin, and Norepinepherine:

From http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

Dopamine can be considered a basic modulator of physical endurance or drive. Serotonin can be considered a basic modulator of psychological well being. Norepinepherine can be considered a basic modulator of focused thinking and mental drive.

We hereby propose a theory of personality whereby high, medium, and low activity of each of these three neurotransmitters systems are distributed in an enneagrammitically logical way. We propose that the basic triad groups (Head, Gut and Heart) correspond to the level of activity of the Norepinepherine system. The thinking triad types (5, 6, and 7) appear to have high levels of norepinephrine activity and are generally mentally active. The instinctual triad types (8, 9, and 1) appear to have relatively low norepinephrine activity, and the heart triad types (2, 3, and 4) appear to have medium levels of activity of the norepinephrine system. We believe that the activity of Dopamine corresponds to the Hornevian Triads (Assertive, Passive, and Compliant). The assertive group (3, 7, & 8) has high levels of dopamine activity and have a lot of energy and drive. The passive group (4, 5, & 9) has low levels while the compliant group (1, 2 & 6) has medium levels. Finally, thanks to work of Riso and Hudson who identified the Harmonics, a third way of categorizing the Enneagram, the levels of Serotonin correspond to the Harmonic System (Positive Outlook, Reactive, and Competency groups). The positive outlook group (7, 9, & 2) has high levels of Serotonin and generally has an upbeat outlook on life, the reactive group (4, 6, & 8) has the lowest levels, and the competency group (1, 3, & 5) has intermediate levels.
 
I thought there were four types and they were to be viewed in gestalt?

For instance I've taken it a few times and always came up NFIP or INFP, whichever.

I think there is something to be said for psychometrics, what it is though I'm not sure.

:P :scooter:

Kila said:
I think there may be discussion of this somewhere but I am not finding it via search in any real sense.

I have been thinking about this lately. Especially in light of the current discussion around critical thinking, and epigenetics and dumbing down the population in general.
I think there are some severe limitations to the Meyers-Briggs system, yet I find certain things interesting.

I'm just going to jump in as if we are all familiar with this system, but I can post more background later, or someone else can.

It would appear that certain temperaments are more 'critical' problem solvers than others, particularly the N types and even more specifically the NT types. The S types being more concerned with the How questions and concrete reality. The N types more attracted to the abstract and conceptual. I also find it interesting that in the demographic studies done it would seem that S types far outnumber N types, the NT types being the least represented. Now what are the genetics behind that? And are those genetics being manipulated in a variety of ways? Also the Feeling types outnumber the Thinking types, and since by and large feeling is simply a biological response, I have long been very interested in the biology of emotions, and wheat and other substances act as opiates stimulating certain emotional states...??? Now if emotions were my 'food' and I was trying to breed and cross breed an animal to more ideally suit my needs in terms of ease of care as well as nutritional value I would want lots of ESFJ's and ESFP's running around which is exactly what we see demographically. I would want to weed out those pesky ENTP's and INTP's those pesky critical Why asking types.
School does a good job at rewarding the SJ's and the SP's to a large extent and the NF's to a lesser degree but the NT's often do very poorly and hate schooling at least until college. Where they find more of their types represented in the Sciences. Of course, they can be corrupted via ego as the NT ego is usually pretty well developed.

On the subject of emotion, the downfall of the NF is the subjective nature of the very intense emotional states, particularly the Introverted types. So, in terms of 'feeding' these types are also pretty tasty. And not really so hard to deal with as they can be manipulated emotionally and tend to avoid objective reason in favor or subjective value judgments. They do tend to ask the Why questions but not in the true objective sense that an NT approaches those same questions.

This whole forum, it would seem, would have very little appeal to an SJ or SP, which by stunning coincidence makes up the bulk of society demographically.

I am wondering if certain temperaments aren't more prone to 'wake up' and aren't selectively being bred out of the population? And if so how? I can see a multitude of ways that society selects for and reward SJ's and SP's . There is very little reward for being an NT in our current world. It is a constant lonely struggle against the 'flow' of culture.

I dunno...

just some random thoughts and questions while smoking...
 
I've often thought that we live in a ENTJ world. ENTJ's being the controllers and power seekers, almost no empathy. (Sound familiar?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ

ENTJs focus on the most efficient and organized means of performing a task. This quality, along with their goal orientation, often makes ENTJs superior leaders, both realistic and visionary in implementing a long-term plan. ENTJs tend to be fiercely independent in their decision making, having a strong will that insulates them against external influence. Generally highly competent, ENTJs analyze and structure the world around them in a logical and rational way. Due to this straightforward way of thinking, ENTJs tend to have the greatest difficulty of all the types in applying subjective considerations and emotional values into the decision-making process.

ENTJs often excel in business and other areas that require systems analysis, original thinking, and an economically savvy mind. They are dynamic and pragmatic problem solvers. They tend to have a high degree of confidence in their own abilities, making them assertive and outspoken. In their dealings with others, they are generally outgoing, charismatic, fair-minded, and unaffected by conflict or criticism. However, these qualities can make ENTJs appear arrogant, insensitive, and confrontational. They can overwhelm others with their energy, intelligence, and desire to order the world according to their own vision. As a result, they may seem intimidating, hasty, and controlling.

ENTJs tend to cultivate their personal power. They often end up taking charge of a situation that seems (to their mind, at least) to be out of control, or that can otherwise be improved upon and strengthened. They strive to learn new things, which helps them become resourceful problem-solvers. However, since ENTJs rely on provable facts, they may find subjective issues pointless. ENTJs appear to take a tough approach to emotional or personal issues, and so can be viewed as aloof and cold-hearted. In situations requiring feeling and value judgments, ENTJs are well served to seek the advice of a trusted Feeling type.
 
Jung and Briggs Myers typology personality test.

I know that simple test like that wouldn't give anywhere close to 100% accuracy and it's up to the individual to see what matches the most. Netherless, it would be interesting to see what potential personality types are here on the forum. Just for fun :)

Though, I find personality types more serious subject, since there is online test involved, I place it in Tickle Me section.

Here is link to the personality test. 48 questions total.
_http://similarminds.com/jung.html


I will go first.

agni - INTP

Introverted (I) 54.29% Extroverted (E) 45.71%
Intuitive (N) 70.27% Sensing (S) 29.73%
Thinking (T) 59.38% Feeling (F) 40.63%
Perceiving (P) 65.79% Judging (J) 34.21%

I mentioned to my family about that I thought I am rather emotional person and it makes big influence on my decision, that with age I understood, though emotions are important and worth paying attention to, it's the solid reasoning & logic that takes priority in my decision making and has been. They looked surprised, and said: "You did not know this about yourself ? It's a surprise to you ? From childhood you showed you have been relying on reasoning and thought mostly. If we would deny you to do something and explain you well why not, you would understand, you would not make an emotional scenery out of it. You are emotional, but in action you rely on reasoning mostly."

So, how come I am the last one to find out about that ? Not rather typical for INTP.

My theory I am a borderline between Thought & Feeling, I loop between these two. I do not trust my emotions much, so I do my best not to act on it, except for feeling of empathy, so at the end it's reasoning that counts, and more factual & reasonable the better :) Facts and getting closer to truth just seem so much more important then emotion.

Why I think I am INTP ? I am a type of person that: "Don't give me bread, but give me a good concept", so to speak. My friends say I am taking everything super serious or get upset, but I think they misunderstand, I just take time to think a lot about pros/cons and see if it makes sense :)

So bottom line my world divided into: either it makes sense or does not make sense. I like or don't like is not so important to me. It goes to all: emotion, action, thought & what not. I think it's INTP enough.

Now, how about you ? What personality type are you ? If anyone is interested in this, of course :)
 
Gee. I think agni does not know how to use search button or too lazy. Not cool !


Bluelamp said:
Helen Fisher is also into matching personality with body chemicals. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Fisher_(anthropologist)

Fisher distinguishes between four personality types each of which she associates with a body chemical.[8] The corresponding Platonic term - as Fisher identified the types herself - and the resulting corresponding Keirsey temperament (according to the speculation of some readers, not Fisher herself) can be seen in parentheses.

explorer (artistic, Artisan [SP] temperament, orange) - dopamine
negotiator (intuitive, Idealist [NF] temperament, blue) - estrogen
director (reasoning, Rational [NT] temperament, green) - testosterone
builder (sensible, Guardian [SJ] temperament, gold) - serotonin

Now that is interesting correlation. If I am [NT] type, what is bolded fits me. My apartment interior is in "green color" setting, lamps, curtains, dishes. Testosterone over the roof most likely, from personal observations :)

Does anyone know of any study relating personality types to psychopathy or other disorders ?
Would it be all over the personality types, or is it more prone to NT types ? From the description above, NT seem to be the only ones who fit profile of psychopaths or sociopaths. However as you know there is more involved in psychopathy, such as genetic inheritance.

I do not think that these personality types are all there is what composes personality. People are way more complex than that.

For an example, self-assuming if I am INTP type (or it's my primary mode), I can not say that I am void of emotion. It's there and alive. However, it's not the priority over thought. While I can experience emotion, it's possible for my thinking to overwrite it if reason is good enough and truly understood. However, these two seem to struggle once in a while for who is the boss. And occasionally emotion takes over, but is well contained internally. Likehood of me acting on impulse is rather low. But mostly it's Thinking that wins. Only way these two are ever in sync, where there is empathy involved. Then Thinking joins Emotion in assistance to find best solution. But viewing it from work perspective, isn't it what emotion suppression is ?

I have been questioning myself if I am a psychopaths for a longest time. Probably because of the potential I have to be one. I can say I could compete with a psychopath or at least fake one, only difference I have no desire what so ever to do so and no need and it just does not makes sense to be a psychopath, or there any kind of benefit in being such. Existing only for yourself is boring and carries no meaning. What scares me, that I would probably would be able to overwrite empathy if I really wanted to, but in order to do so, I would have to make a conscious choice to lean to dark side and consciously keep suppressing empathy. I think I have power to suppress, it's the conscious choice I will never make. Because from my self-assuming INTP way of thought, it does not fall in category of making sense. It sucks to be STS and unfortunately, I have not learned yet how not to be such. And of course, desire not to be STS is not enough, I understand that knowledge of other mode can only be earned through hard efforts and it's not something free. So, I do not give up.

I find it relatively easy to read people, sometimes, I think I know more about some person then they know or want to admit to themselves. It's not like I purposely do that. I just observe the person for long time, and usually they do things and project thus telling me all about themselves. On many occasions, I can describe mechanics of the person well rather well. As If I know machine of others better then my own. I see patterns in the behavior, I am capable to predict what some people will do, and in what manner they will respond.

Another thing, I like to gaze in people eyes. It was not like that all the time, but I have exercised, it helps me to read people and see if they are being sincere. Many people say, that when I look in eyes, they feel is if I am reading their soul and they do not feel easy.

I see that many people actually feel intimidated by me, mostly psychologically. During conversations, looking at in outcome, I can see that people tend to take things as if I am attacking them personally. While from withing, I can say that I am rarely "personal" at all with anything, during conversation it's a concept that gets painted, it the way I perceive things, I detach concept from person, that is all. And it is the concept I am talking to people about, not about people themselves. Who they are and what they do is their business, not mine. But most do not see it this way. I honestly do not care what faults one has, it's up to a person to face it or not. Yet most see it if I give thought on the concept, I somehow threaten them, personally and intentionally. So, it appears I am not exercising external consideration. I genuinely do not understand, why people would take a concept personally and as a threat. However, it gives me an opportunity to see who is who so to speak, because I figure it gives a glimpse on how self important person is, or it reveals what bothers the person, because they choose to identify with some part of the concept. So I leave it at that and let them be, without exercising any kind external consideration, if you want to perceive things personally, it's your business, the way I see it.

Because I feel the potential of being psychopath, I've made an oath, that if any moment I see I am doing major harm, I will self-terminate, before I will allow this to happen. But that's due to some feeling of honor and self-respect.

Another thing that I would like to address, is empathy in psychopath. From what I read, they fake it, and probably fool themselves they have it. But how deep these fooling goes ? I never feel easy when I see anyone suffering, or someone wounded or crying, or god forbids someone's blood (my blood is the only one I am okay with). The way I can describe the feeling of empathy that might sound relevant, is that it feels like there is an electrical shock delivered to my body, that makes my stomach crawl. Would a psychopath get some sort of "physiological simulation" of empathy ? Or any empathetic response is just plainly absent ? Do psychopaths even know they fake empathy ?

So, question is, from what I describe, and from my participation here, do I show any sign of psychopathy or pathology ? Any wrongs you see in me ? Who the hell am I :)

====
I don't know folks. Am I all over the place again. Gives pretty good insight on my mind, doesn't it (being all over) ? Does my post belong here ? Or it's swamp material ? I don't mind to be in public eye, because I do not see anything wrong with being exposed for who I am, I might feel not easy, ashamed and embarrassed feeling wise or intellect wise, but I don't care about self in that sense. I do not fear my faults. But I fear the destructive potential these faults can bring if I am not careful enough. I find that through self exposure there comes strength that potentially gives an opportunity to face these internal demons.

My apologies for such lengthy post. I bet it's tiring to read. I do not expect answers either. In order to get knowledge and understanding only way is to pay, and do it trough own efforts, and of course mirrors, which are always appreciated.

Thank You.
 
Hi Agni, these MBTI personality types could perhaps give you different flavors of psychopaths but in my opinion the MBTI is in no way a test for psychopaths. You as an INTP would have the personality type I would guess first for Ark. You are in good company! I'm an INFP but being an electrical engineer male, my T has perhaps been developed more than my F.
 
Also INTP, similar scores except 80% introverted and closer to the middle on P vs J.

I don't think so much of these tests - it is a fairly arbitrary way of pigeonholing people into categories - there could be any number of divisions into categories.

It may perhaps be able to say something very general about one's characteristics, but it is so general as to have little practical value.

OSIT.


Thinking about the questions when answering was more interesting, though - while in many cases you have little more than a subjective feeling to go by because they are so general, it made me think about the way "I" am and what parts of this is false personality. I think the result would be different if I was Real - not sure how, except more balanced when it comes to introversion vs extroversion - perhaps mainly this. Conditioning runs deep and inhibits.
 
Hi All,

Bluelamp said:
Hi Agni, these MBTI personality types could perhaps give you different flavors of psychopaths but in my opinion the MBTI is in no way a test for psychopaths.

Yes, it's not so easy. Even if it was possible, chances that psychopath answers test sincerely probably would be extremely on a low side.

Bluelamp said:
You as an INTP would have the personality type I would guess first for Ark. You are in good company!

And so was Jung. Him and Ark is probably a good company :) While I find company is good, am I good for the company ? But I guess an answer is up to me in a form of what I do. No guess really, I am pretty confident in the answer.

Bluelamp said:
I'm an INFP but being an electrical engineer male, my T has perhaps been developed more than my F.

It is very possible to do so, while resources are different for each, we still can build and mold stuff of ourselves. The whole concept that people have an ability to change is pretty neaty. Keeps me going sometimes :)

Psalehesost said:
Also INTP, similar scores except 80% introverted and closer to the middle on P vs J.

Interesting, remember this ? :whistle:

agni said:
And guess what ? Like I've mentioned before, my experiences seem very close to yours, I can almost always relate to what you've posted before in other posts. It's not a first time I do find similarity of your experiences with mine.

Now it makes me wonder if there hyper-dimensional aspect to this as well, because it does look like almost identical template being applied through environment to achieve similar results/outcomes.

There is a Slavic proverb for that: "Fishermen recognize each other from afar".

Fat chance of lucky coincidence though.

Cheers All !
 
agni said:
Psalehesost said:
Also INTP, similar scores except 80% introverted and closer to the middle on P vs J.

Interesting, remember this ? :whistle:

agni said:
And guess what ? Like I've mentioned before, my experiences seem very close to yours, I can almost always relate to what you've posted before in other posts. It's not a first time I do find similarity of your experiences with mine.

Now it makes me wonder if there hyper-dimensional aspect to this as well, because it does look like almost identical template being applied through environment to achieve similar results/outcomes.

There is a Slavic proverb for that: "Fishermen recognize each other from afar".

Fat chance of lucky coincidence though.

Cheers All !

Well, that suggests one thing - that people who are sufficiently similar tend to end up in the same category. This could be achieved with many other kinds of personality categorization, I think, so in itself it says fairly little about the wider significance of the categorization system.

Less similar people will also be grouped together. The question is whether what is said to apply to them in common is accurate.

Here I'm not so sure - looking at INTP and INTJ for example, I see traits in both that in some cases seem to apply to me, in some cases seeming not to, in some cases too vague or general to make much of the description, in some cases that I might wish would apply but they don't to any significant extent.
 
I've done a lot of this kind of tests (MBTI and variations, as well as enneagram based and others) in the past and the results are usually similar but one thing I found out is that the results seem to change more when I do it thinking a lot about each question in comparison to doing it rather quickly, just flowing with the questions. I think the latter tends to give more reliable results. It seems that when I think to much I end up answering with wishfull thinking. For instance, my Feeling rating gets higher and even Extroversion rises, which are attributes I always though I lacked. Or at least this is my subjective view.

Anyway, I took the test posted by agni (rather quickly), as it might be fun to compare results.

Jung Test Results

Introverted (I) 72.41% Extroverted (E) 27.59%
Intuitive (N) 59.38% Sensing (S) 40.63%
Thinking (T) 64.52% Feeling (F) 35.48%
Judging (J) 54.55% Perceiving (P) 45.45%

Your type is: INTJ

INTJ - "Mastermind". Introverted intellectual with a preference for finding certainty. A builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models. 2.1% of total population.
 
Psalehesost said:
Well, that suggests one thing - that people who are sufficiently similar tend to end up in the same category. This could be achieved with many other kinds of personality categorization, I think, so in itself it says fairly little about the wider significance of the categorization system.

Less similar people will also be grouped together. The question is whether what is said to apply to them in common is accurate.

Here I'm not so sure - looking at INTP and INTJ for example, I see traits in both that in some cases seem to apply to me, in some cases seeming not to, in some cases too vague or general to make much of the description, in some cases that I might wish would apply but they don't to any significant extent.

Well of course. Anything that can be used to describe and would allow categorization by certain criteria would do. How significant I would think is determined how it can be applied and how reasonably, or more important objectively and for what purpose.

Personally, for now, I know no significance of the Meyers Briggs/Jung temperament types, other then so far a reminder that different people perceive things differently and have different personality types. And it's a basic "gross" breakdown of perceptual senses generalizations that are probably commonly known to psychology. Of course no one is 100% one thing. We are all EISNFTJP in that model to certain degree. Spectrum on how much people rely on some or another senses are all over, it also depends on a given situation. Perhaps that there are perceptual senses that are not covered at all. But I think there is a general set of certain senses that person commonly uses. It's not like we exercise fair 50% of each sensory parameter when dealing with everyday life. Mostly it's leaning to one onset of senses more or less that person is accustomed to, or what is available to the person.

Certain sets of traits or how person deals with situation might be common for people that rely on similar sensory perception set. But it can not be applied accurately to all. It's much more personal. Even people with similar onset of senses have different weight put on each sense, so personal variations can be extensive.

I find general abstract of that personality type idea as a handy reminder to keep in perspective when communicating with people whether trying to convey something or understand something to find how to properly relate to a person that uses different set of senses.

If both types stick to their only specific sensory perception without looking at how other person perceives things, thus not making a compromise, it would be rather difficult for these two types to understand each other and where they are coming from and what they mean. So, I find it useful to keep this in mind. And from personal experience, I know that if I do not do the compromise, I would most likely will come across as brutally cold to a person that mostly dwells in a world of feeling, not to mention I will most likely make a person snore from boredom, if person can not relate.

For an example, I would think that for a person that mostly dwells in perception by "Thought" sees things differently from a person who dwells in perception of "Feeling". While for "Feeling" type, world is mostly "I like or I do not like", for "thinking" type it's either "makes sense or it does not make sense". For being a "thought" type, I find it difficult to understand how things can be perceived by feeling (while I do acknowledge they are part of perception), which seems very subjective and a specific to a personal preference. And I would think same thing can be said about "Thought" types. I pretty sure "Feeling" types do not get how it's possible to objectively perceive things by own subjective thoughts :)

I do perceive things by feeling sometimes myself. But mostly I find it of of no use for anyone else. I find it personal. Feeling is not something that can be easily explained to someone. It's just not a primary sense for me, nor I find it reliable or objective enough. And I know that in some occasion if I would have trusted my "feeling" sensory input, I would save myself from whole bunch of unnecessary troublesome adventures.

And in general, I think MBTI mimics somewhat Gurdjieffs' man types: 1, 2, 3. So, bottom line, I do not know how important it is, other than knowing that people are different and thus perceive or deal with things differently. But again, there is much more to it, than just a matter of sensory perception.

My original interest in this subject is based on theory I have that it's mostly Introverts that are drawn to work. But that's rather subjective personal observation. It would be interesting to see if that's the case or not here. People are different, and thus reasons why one would be interested in work are different.

Courageous Inmate Sort said:
It seems that when I think to much I end up answering with wishfull thinking. For instance, my Feeling rating gets higher and even Extroversion rises, which are attributes I always though I lacked. Or at least this is my subjective view.

It was fun to do the exercise and to reflect to figure out where it's really own qualities and where is wishful thinking :)
 
I scored as :

Introverted (I) 52.94% Extroverted (E) 47.06%
Intuitive (N) 67.74% Sensing (S) 32.26%
Feeling (F) 59.46% Thinking (T) 40.54%
Perceiving (P) 71.88% Judging (J) 28.13%

Your type is: INFP

INFP - "Questor". High capacity for caring. Emotional face to the world. High sense of honor derived from internal values. 4.4% of total population.


I have been reading a lot about these personality types lately. I found a pretty funny parody of the types people here may be interested in. It also shows possibly the different "flavors" of psychopathy characteristics in general- but of course this is just a guideline and "in general".


ENTJ: The Evil Overlord

The ENTJ is best characterized by his charisma, his ability to grasp complex situations and to think flexibly and creatively, his keen and active intelligence, and his overwhelming desire to crush the world beneath his boot. ENTJs are naturally outgoing and love the company of other people, particulalry minions, henchmen, slaves, and the others they rule with ruthless efficiency.

ENTJs usually die at the hand of secret government agents in a fiery cataclysm that destroys their entire underground fortress. Often, Evil Overlords will have a secret clone whose implanted memories contain all the knowledge and ambition of the original, stored in cryonic suspension in a safe location. The clone will appear in a sequel.

RECREATION: ENTJs enjoy spending their leisure time in groups, seeking out the company of others with whom they can exchange strategies and ideas, and test their mind control rays. They also enjoy competitive games which challenge them intellectually, such as chess, go, and "tell me where the missiles are or I'll open the pirhana cage and the girl dies."

COMPATIBILITY: Ideal companions include ENTPs, whose inventive natures often most useful; and ESTJs, who make excellent henchmen once the neural realignment is complete. ENTJs often employ the services of ISTJs but don't usually make good romantic partners with them. Under no circumstances should an ENTJ ever date an ENFJ; no good can come of it.

Famous ENTJs include Ming the Merciless, John Bigboote, and Charles Montgomery Burns.

ENTP: The Mad Scientist

The ENTP, like the ENTJ, is charismatic, outgoing, and intelligent. ENTPs are often quickwitted, clever, and genial; they typically display a highly organized, rational cognitive ability which makes them natural scientists and inventors.

ENTPs are creative, complex people who seek to improve their understanding of the natural world, usually by building armored fifty-story-tall robotic monsters with iron jaws and death-ray eyes, or by creating genetically mutated plagues that spread unstoppably across the land, turning all who are contaminated into mindless zombie drones. They are less likely to want to conquer the world than to destroy it utterly, reducing it to nothing but slag and rubble--though this is often merely a side-effect of their pursuit of knowledge.

RECREATION: ENTPs enjoy recreational activities which challenge them physically and intellectually, such as water skiing and porting Linux to their iPods. They are also fond of collecting gadgets like combination cellpone/PDAs and orbiting arsenals of brain lasers, which they may port Linux to as well.

COMPATIBILITY: ENTPs and ENTJs make natural companions, as the one's unspeakable hunger for power complements the other's unspeakable hunger for knowledge. They do not generally build successful relationships with ESFJs, as ENTPs they are prone to behaving in inconveniently erratic ways, which pisses ESFJs off to no end; and because ENTPs simply do not know how to dress appropriately for formal occasions.

Famous ENTPs include Spencer Silver (the inventor of Post-It Notes), Robert Oppenheimer, and Dr. Jeckyll.

ENFJ: The Cult Leader

ENFJs are big thinkers. They are extremely charismatic, and wish to offer the benefit of their wisdom to the world at large. They tend to see the grand scheme of things, and to be able to deduce connections between things that other people miss; these psychological personality traits are the result fo the fact that they are the Messiah.

ENFJs use their charisma and their knowledge to teach others, benevolently helping their fellow man reach a higher plane of evolution through such unorthodox but enlightened means as Psychic Third Nostril Enlargement. They then retire to secluded farmhouses in rural areas, where their followers express appreciation for the ENFJs by signing over all their worldly possessions and giving up their wives and daughters to the ENFJ's "special care."

RECREATION: ENFJs are fond of collecting things, such as wives, guns, ammunition, and FBI search warrants. ENFJs often pass their leisure time engaged in such pursuits as self-flagellation or being nailed to things. Some ENFJs eschew these activities, preferring instead to watch their followers engage in them, offering suggestions and gentle advice when appropriate.

COMPATIBILITY: ENFJs make natural companions and mentors to INFJs. They often get along well with ENFPs, although a friendly rivalry may sometimes erupt between the two.

Famous ENFJs include J. R. "Bob" Dobbs.

ESFJ: The Control Freak

Champions of rule and tradition, defender of convention and order, the ESFJ values predictability, consistency, promptness, and continuity. This love of order, stability, and tradition most often manifests as a fanatical and almost compulsive control freakery, combined with an anal-retentive streak that is at once maddening and infuriating to those around them.

ESFJs are often friendly, outgoing, and generous, at least until you cross them. This generous nature, in combination with their obsessive need for control, makes them ideal for such jobs as Jedi master, senior bank teller, or middle management at a large chain department store. Most ESFJs die of heart attacks, at least the ones who aren't slain in a galactic power coup made possible by the rigid, dogmatic inflexibility and self-absorbed narcissism of their Jedi order.

RECREATION: ESFJs are fond of celebrating birthdays, bar mitzvahs, initiations into the grand order of the Golden Dawn, and other momentous occasions. They also take delight in creating elaborate schedules on their PDAs, memorizing the Periodic Table of Elements, and ripping off the heads of those who cross them before laying their eggs in the victim's neck, which hatch into larvae that devour the victim over a period of many years.

COMPATIBILITY: ESFJs are most compatible with ESTJs, who love and cherish the ESFJ's control freakery.

Famous ESFJs: Fame? A Jedi craves not these things!

ESTJ: The Bureaucrat

Like ESFJs, ESTJs value continuity and order. They have outstanding organizational skills, and are meticulousand detail-oriented. Unlike ESFJs, ESTJs are followers and joiners; they are happiest when they belong to organizations, the larger and more mind-numbing the better. ESFJs often have an abnormal obsession with being normal at all costs.

ESTJs thrive in occupations which best utilize their organizational skills, such as driver's license bureau worker, junior bank teller, postal employee, COBOL programmer, or any other profession which involves long periods of mind-crushing tedium, preferably involving counting things. Quiet and courageous, they can perform difficult tasks other personality types are not well-suited for, such as denying health insurance benefits to crippled children with leukemia. They also make excellent extras in Hollywood movies.

RECREATION: ESTJs enjoy the company of others, and are often fixtures at office parties, where they cut loose by working the photocopier that the naked ESFP is sitting on. They also enjoy lining up sharp pencils on an otherwise clear desk.

COMPATIBILITY: ESTJs make good companions for ESFJs; the ESFJ lays down how it's going to be, and the ESTJ happily bounds along like a puppy dog. A big, orderly, tidy puppy dog that loves to count things.

Famous ESTJs include Count von Count and "Orgazmo's" Joe Young.

INFJ: The Conspiracy Theorist

Beneath the calm, collected exterior of the INFJ lies the horrible reality of someone who has seen The Truth. The INFJ knows what other people are too naive or too brainwasted to admit: the Conspiracy is real. Mistrustful and suspicious, the INFJ is not easily fooled, and does not take the word of the government-controlled medico-military-industrial complex for anything. Whether it's uncovering the plot by butter-eating Jews to clog the arteries of Christian folk with artificial margarine or discovering the secret laboratory in Tibet that's producing legions of Jimmy Carter clones that will be sent out to seize the manufacturing facilities in the Guangdong Province of China under the pretext of inspecting chickens for influenza, there is no lengths the INFJ won't go to in order to blow the lid off the whole thing.

INFJs can often be found holding down jobs as AM radio talk-show hosts. They can also be found driving taxis in the greater Washington, DC area. Other common jobs often held by INFJs include vagrant, loony, whacko, and writer/director/producer of the television show "Seinfeld." INFJs can also be found feeding that crucial bit of information to determined FBI agents just before they are brutally murdered.

RECREATION: INFJs often come home from a hard day's work exposing conspiracies about how the government is poisoning us with mind-control agents spread by passenger airliners and unwind by spending all night writing Web sites exposing conspiracies about how NASA faked the Bush election.

COMPATIBILITY: INFJs are usually happiest and most successful in relationships with Julia Roberts, though the relationships may not end happily.

Famous INFJs include...well, if I told you, I'd have to kill you.

INFP: The Idealist

The INFP is a dreamy, imaginitive, idealist, capable of finding the good in anything or anyone, even something as foul as Newark, New Jersey. INFPs are sometimes dangerous to the well-being of society as a whole, as they are prone to adopting subversive and destructive ideologies like "The world should be fair," "People should treat one another well," and "You know, 'Friends' is a really, really stupid television show."

These irrational thought patterns may sometimes cause INFPs to run off and join the circus, the Resistance, or the Rebellion, where they tend to do well in any position requiring excellent hand-eye coordination or mastery of the Force.

COMPATIBILITY: INFPs and ISTJs generally exhibit a natural predator/prey relationship, which, though it might appear harsh and cruel from the outside, is all part of the natural cycle of life. In fact, were it not for the predation of the ISTJ, the population of INFPs would soon grow to unsustainable levels, overwhelming the ability of their ecological niche to support them.

Famous idealists include that girl in your sixth-grade homeroom who got the teacher fired for saying that girls aren't good at math; that guy in the cubicle next to yours who got the manager fired for saying that women don't make good employees; and Anais Nin.

ENFP: The Scientologist

The ENFP is a creative thinker who sees all humanity as connected to a cosmic whole, and gives of himself tirelessly to improve the condition of his fellow man.

Whether he's creating bizarre religions aimed at bringing us all back to our origins as immortal space aliens made of pure thought or conducting seminars and classes on alien abduction, the ENFP is always seeking the answers to the great mysteries of life, such as "Who are we?" and "How can I use two tin cans and a Radio Shack multimeter to bring enlightenment to the world?" and "What is it with UFOs and anal probing, anyway?"

RECREATION: The ENFP is gregarious, outgoing, and slightly silly; they often spend their leisure time engaged in role-playing games, having pillow fights that lead to wild, lustful lesbian orgies, or being abducted by space aliens.

COMPATIBILITY: ENFPs are happiest in relationships with Tom Cruise.

Famous ENFPs include anyone who has ever dated Tom Cruise.

ISTJ: The Thought Police

ISTJs are characterized by loyalty, duty, and civic responsibility. As an ISTJ, you have a natural understanding of the value of civil harmony and order, and a deep-seated dislike of non-conformity, anarchy, and chaos.

For an ISTJ, work is very important to a sense of self-satisfaction. Happiness comes most easily for you when you have a job that allows you to express your ethic. Whether it's blasting traitorous rebel scum as a proud Imperial Stormtrooper or monitoring the population's cerebral implants searching for evidence of unauthorized thought patterns as one of the Thought Police, you're most satisfied when you are crushing the population beneath the iron boot heel of oppression on behalf of your masters.

RECREATION; ISTJs approach leisure with the same dedication they bring to spreading tyrrany and oppression. Common ISTJ pasttimes include cleaning their rifles, improving their marksmanship, betting on political dissidents in the Gladiator Arena, and macrame.

COMPATIBILITY: ISTJs are capable of stong emotional connections, bonding closely with the other ISTJs in their unit, platoon, or sector.

Famous ISTJs include TK-421, Torquemada, and Yuri Andropov.

ESFP: The National Enquirer Headline

An ESFP is a spontaneous, outgoing, charismatic, fun-loving person like the guy you used to room with in college--you know, the one who was found floating face-down in the reservoir with the homecoming queen's underwear in his teeth.

The strongest element of the psychological makeup of an ESFP is his easygoing, impulsive approach to life. ESFPs often build their careers out of dating supermodels, being involved in scandals, and appearing regularly in such newspapers as "The National Enquirer" and "The Weekly World News." ESFPs often die in bizarre circumstances, usually involving jealous boyfriends, exotic dancers, escaped pythons, feather boas, and falls from the penthouse floor of high-rise apartments; those who don't, usually die of veneral diseases.

RECREATION: Everything the ESFP does, whether it's shagging the Brazilian women's volleyball team in a public fountain in downtown New York City or fleeing from their manager in a stolen Ferrari on a winding Milan street, is done for recreation.

COMPATIBILITY: Everyone. ENTPs, INTJs, ENFPs, sea turtles...there's nobody the ESFP won't shag.

Famous ESFPs include every female James Bond character EVER.

INTP: The Egghead

The typical INTP is a logical, abstract thinker whose intellect is ideally suited to understanding pure mathematics, linguistics, formal logic theory, and other pursuits unsuited to making a real living. The INTP can often understand even the most subtle nuances of lattice quantum chromodynamics, but cannot perform more concrete tasks such as dressing himself, operating a motor vehicle, or opening a door. An INTP may be able to tell you how to construct a nuclear reactor from a coconut and two pieces of string, but may be completely incapable of fixing a hole in a boat.

The INTP is really only suited to two careers: college professor and game show contestant. Of these career choices, only one offers the financial rewards which allows him to suport himself; for that reason, INTPs often take the other path, and become tenured academics.

RECREATION: Surprisingly, INTPs are often the hit of the party--not for their sometimes annoying habit of turning every discussion into a debate about semantics nor for their fascinating stories about Pierre de Fermat's habit of writing things in the margins of his books, but for the fact that they often show up with their pants on backwards and that if you put a Post-It note reading "Kick Me" on an INTP's back, he won't notice it no matter how many people kick him. That kind of entertainment never gets old.

COMPATIBILITY: INTPs make ideal companions to INTJs, as neither of them notices they're in a relationship.

Famous INTPs include Pierre de Fermat and almost everyone who knows what Pierre de Fermat wrote in the margins of his book.

INTJ: The outside contractor

INTJs are solid, competent personalities who may seem aloof and even arrogant, but who are typically highly skilled in any field which interests them. INTJs are confident in their skills and knowledge, self-assured, and imaginitive; their exceptional problem-solving skills make them ideal architects, auto mechanics, and tools of the evil empire. While it requires the driving will to conquer of an ENTJ to imagine the Death Star and the evil genius of an ENTP to invent its devastating weapons systems, the skill and technical prowess of the INTJ is what makes the whole thing work.

The INTJ sees life as a problem to be solved. For that reason, the INTJ is the person a company brings in from the outside to streamline production processes and identify redundant assets for termination. The INTJ's combination of analyticial problem-solving skills and complete and utter disregard for the morality or consequences of his actions also make him ideal for the job of hatchet man, CIA operative, and helpdesk operator.

RECREATION: INTJs are often baffled by the strange and incomprehensible recreational rituals of other people, such as going to parties, watching television, and having sex. Instead, they prefer to spend their leisure time installing twin missile launchers in their cars to deter tailgaters and playing chess with megalomaniac CEOs of the Tyrell corporation.

COMPATIBILITY: Silly person, INTJs don't have relationships! They may, however build their own friends.

Famous INTJs include J. F. Sebastian and Sgt. Apone.

ISTP: The Psycho Vigilante

ISTPs are quiet, unassuming people, who tend to be mechanically gifted but withdrawn and reserved. ISTPs often need a great deal of personal space and "alone time," which may give others the impression that they are aloof; in reality, this time is necessary to hide their secret identities.

The typical ISTP leads a dual life; his outward reserve and quiet masks an inward seething rage at the injustice of life--often, the death of a loved one at the hands of a criminal. In this secret life, the ISTP uses his mechanical gifts to create a terrifying arsenal of bizarre weapons with which to strike fear into the heart of evil. Sometimes, ISTPs may become evil themselves, either slowly over a long period of time or in response to a perceived rejection from the very people they are trying to save.

RECREATION: ISTPs are happiest when they are building and constructing--either new weapons to smite their enemies, or new plots to destroy those who oppose them. They have a very industrial sense of aesthetics, and can spend hours absorbed in the appreciation of works of art such as a 1969 Hemi Cuda retrofitted with missile launchers and ejection seats.

COMPATIBILITY: ISTPs don't often get along well with their extroverted cousins, Evil Overlords and Mad Scientists. Instead, they prefer the company of INTPs, or perhaps their pets. Romantic relationships with ISTPs tend to be drawn-out, tragic affairs, filled with bitterness, longing, and teenage angst. The sex is usually pretty good, however.

Famous ISTPs include Spider-Man and Q.

ISFP: The Crackpot

ISFP personalities are characterized by their impulsiveness, their defiance of conformity and orthodoxy, and their competitive natures. Taken together, these traits make up the ideal crackpot. While an ISFP's personality might seem flighty and their attention span short to an outsider, ISFPs live by the motto "Life is best approach--oh, look, potato chips!"

ISFPs are always on the cutting edge of new trends. Whether it's podcasting, taking up guitar, or running away to a far-off east African compound and joining a doomsday apocalyptic cult, ISFPs are always following their hearts and quickly embracing new ideas. However, they tend to be fleeting in their passions, which means they often may lack the dedication that marks a true cultist. While ISFPs often lack the dedication most people give to careers and family, they can still support themselves in more unorthodox ways, like by selling blood plasma, turning tricks, and mooching off their family.

RECREATION: ISFPs enjoy activities that cater to their emotional passions, and often pursue many hobbies, such as music, painting, sculpting, and running off to Vegas to marry that cute waitress from Mack's Truck Stop over on Route 9. Whenever God speaks to someone, it's usually an ISFP.

COMPATIBILITY: ISFPs do well in relationships with ISFJs and with anyone they meet in Las Vegas.

Famous ISFPs include Joan of Arc and--oh, look, potato chips!

ISFJ: The Martyr

If you are an ISFJ, you are giving, generous, and believe strongly in sacrificing yourself to serve your fellow man. Whether you're spending the entire weekend cooking souffle for your husband's big dinner with his boss or giving over your body as a vehicle for the Shoggoth from beneath the ancient city of the Old Ones so that the Great Gods can rise again, selflessness and service are your hallmarks.

This generosity of spirit makes ISFJs admirably suited for any career positions involving being tied to altars or ancient ritual daggers. ISFJs also do well in positions such as teacher, doctor, and crack -jezebel-.

RECREATION: ISFJs are of such a self-sacrificing nature that recreation does not come easily to them. Their leisure pursuits often express their inner natures; thus, they often amuse themselves and provide endless entertainment for those around them by being moody and passive-aggressive.

COMPATIBILITY: ISFJs do well in relationships with ENTJs, who take their self-sacrifice for granted and expect no less from their minions. They also do well with ESFPs, because...well, ESFPs will shag anyone.

Famous ISFJs include Thomas the Martyr, Tertullian the Martyr, and Theka the Martyr.

ESTP: The Conman

As an ESTP, you are driven to succeed and to win. Your personality is dominated by your drive to test yourself and to triumph over your fellow man.

This generally expresses itself as an overwhelming urge to prove your self worth (and fatten your wallet) by taking advantage of the suckers, marks, and dupes who surround you--after all, isn't that what they're there for? It's not your fault that their stupidity and gullibility lets them believe you when you say that Hershey's Kissesses exposed to your patented psychic amplifier rays will let them fly! As your hero and fellow ESTP, P. T. Barnum, once said, "it is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money."

As an ESTP, your greatest fear is failure. Under no circumstances will you permit yourself that kind of weakness, which makes you ideally suited for a job at Enron, where your natural talents can be recognized and rewarded.

RECREATION: ESTPs enjoy recreational activities such as card sharking, pool sharking, and conning little old women out of their lives' savings. They're often fond of polo as well.

Famous ESTPs include P. T. Barnum and DR. PETER OKOYE, SON OF THE LATE PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA M. B. OKOYE, WHO REQUESTS YOUR URGENT ASSISTANCE IN HELPING TO TRANSFER $150,000,000 (THE SUM OF ONE HUNDRED FIFTY MILLION USD) INTO YOUR U.S. BANK ACCOUNT SO THAT IT MAY BE DISTRIBUTED TO NEEDY CHILDREN, IN GOD'S CHARITY.
 
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