NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

I had my third session 6 days ago, and so far, the "blues" hasn't hit me again on day 5 like after the first two sessions! So maybe things are starting to stick for a bit longer than before. I continued having some vivid dreams, but instead of "whole life reviews" as before, they seem to be about specific periods of my life, and specific lessons I have had to learn/am learning. I've felt a bit of the child-like curiosity waking up. I can concentrate a little longer, it seems, and I'm less inclined to multi-tasking than usual.

That said, I don't know whether this is entirely due to NF, to trying to be more in the present, just a coincidence, or a mixture of everything.

I suspect that NF wouldn't have the same effect without the recently recommended books, though. They sure help in staying as aware as possible, even in the darker moments.
 
I had my 3rd session yesterday and I was more relaxed, though I felt out of sorts when I started this one. I had that dream-like sensation again and had another emotional release later that afternoon.

Since the 1st session, I've been sleeping like a rock and have woken up really groggy. The grogginess has gotten progressively better. I have been dreaming like mad, especially after I have woken up early in the morning and gone back to sleep. I don't remember a lot of the dreams specifically, some were about customers at work, another about a photo album, another about traveling in a plane. The dream about the plane was weird because I woke up thinking I had it twice. The first time I didn't finish it (the dream) and started the dream again. It seems I am dreaming a heck of a lot. I don't remember ever dreaming this much.

On Monday, I made a bunch of mistakes at work. I've been doing this job for over two years and the mistakes I made were things I hadn't done since I was just out of training. My brain seemed a little 'offline'.

The night before last, I had a weird sensation of something piercing my head, just to the left of the crown. It wasn't particularly painful and some emotion came with it, so I just cried and allowed whatever it was to just be.

I am looking forward to more treatments. Thanks to FOTCM for making it available. :flowers:
 
I had my first session this afternoon. I'm glad the practitioner stayed in the room. I'm really wiped out and have been lying down since I got home. She personally knows Vandean Brown, the creator of the Zengar system, and his wife and was trained by them. My post-session numbers were higher than the pre. What was interesting was that my left brain activity was much higher than the right - she said very common in people with severe developmental trauma. There were constant scratches and pauses in the music. I kept my eyes open for most of the session but closed them a few times. I experienced pressure, first in my forehead above my eyes then also on the right side of my brain, not a headache per se, but pressure which is still coming and going. I paid for 10 sessions and the next one is scheduled for next Tuesday. Interestingly, my post-session divergence numbers were higher than before. Everyone is different. I can tell my brain and nervous system are really working hard. I didn't have any particular emotional responses but by the time the session was over my whole body was aching, particularly my arms and hands. When I mentioned my arms and hands up to my shoulders she said it's very common in people who have a history of sexual abuse. I can't report on sleep yet. I been experiencing severe insomnia the last couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what happens. A good night's sleep would be most welcome!
 
Suite à mes recherches, je n'ai pas trouvé de professionnel se déplaçant à domicile (je suis handicapée sans voiture et ne peut sortir qu'accompagnée)
Juste une personne à Monaco qui ne viendra pas jusqu'où j'habite... J'ai trouvé un lien de location de matériel :
http://www.neurofeedback-equilibre.fr/les-seances-neurofeedback/location-neurofeedback/
C'est un peu cher pour ma petite retraite... Je vais encore y réfléchir et continuer mes recherches...


As a result of my research, I did not find a professional travelling at home (I am handicapped without a car and can only go out accompanied)
Just a person in Monaco who won't come up to where I live... I found an equipment rental link:
http://www.neurofeedback-equilibre.fr/les-seances-neurofeedback/location-neurofeedback/
It's a bit expensive for my little retirement... I'll think about it again and continue my research...

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 
Since I last posted, I've done around 15 sessions on a different neurofeedback system. It's more goal-oriented and involves scoring points in certain games. I have been experiencing a huge increase in dreams. It's also grounding in a way, as the environment and the people in the facility was conducive to mental calm and relaxation.

However, I have elected not to continue with the sessions, as I felt that my performance on the games were really subjective to my level of stress at that point in time. It seemed to be a little too wired towards performance - especially when compared to what I've read about Neuroptimal. There are no NO centers in my country as far as I can survey, but there is one in a little island country called Singapore down south. I'm in the process of working out the logistics for this, but I think I also need to hold my horses and do a bit more reading before embarking. Since doing the current NF protocol, I've also noticed better attention span, thus increase capability to absorb information from books. I'll follow a similar tack to what was advised by Gaby's NF practitioner. Capitalise on the gains you get after 20 sessions - and when you hit a plateau - get back on the program again. Thanks for that Gaby! :thup:

Laura said:
Well, from feedback and my own experience yesterday and today, the process is not all sweetness and light!
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Thanks for that reminder Laura. Indeed - I don't think anything of worth is gained without some struggle.

Bluefyre said:
I had my first session this afternoon. I'm glad the practitioner stayed in the room. I'm really wiped out and have been lying down since I got home. She personally knows Vandean Brown, the creator of the Zengar system, and his wife and was trained by them. My post-session numbers were higher than the pre. What was interesting was that my left brain activity was much higher than the right - she said very common in people with severe developmental trauma. There were constant scratches and pauses in the music. I kept my eyes open for most of the session but closed them a few times. I experienced pressure, first in my forehead above my eyes then also on the right side of my brain, not a headache per se, but pressure which is still coming and going. I paid for 10 sessions and the next one is scheduled for next Tuesday. Interestingly, my post-session divergence numbers were higher than before. Everyone is different. I can tell my brain and nervous system are really working hard. I didn't have any particular emotional responses but by the time the session was over my whole body was aching, particularly my arms and hands. When I mentioned my arms and hands up to my shoulders she said it's very common in people who have a history of sexual abuse. I can't report on sleep yet. I been experiencing severe insomnia the last couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what happens. A good night's sleep would be most welcome!
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Hi Bluefyre,

Similarly, I felt the therapist's presence to be very grounding (the grown male's one specifically - he was calm and had a warm personality) and I even saw my scores increase just by his positive encouragement. Granted this is a different system, but I think the effect of the presence of another who is able to hold the space is quite helpful. It also seems to relate to how another member noticed how her relationship to her dog improved after NF. Her calm brain waves is already positively affecting the environment around her. An interesting aside, Chinese astrology tells us that we have entered the year of the "Earth Dog" (_http://foreverconscious.com/chinese-astrology-year-yang-earth-dog-2018) Time for more grounding of energies from above? In fact, today (16th February 2018) marks the start of the Chinese New Year or the second new moon of the year.

I'm glad that you've embarked on the journey into Neuroptimal NF yourself! :hug2:
 
PERLOU said:
As a result of my research, I did not find a professional travelling at home (I am handicapped without a car and can only go out accompanied)
Just a person in Monaco who won't come up to where I live... I found an equipment rental link:
http://www.neurofeedback-equilibre.fr/les-seances-neurofeedback/location-neurofeedback/
It's a bit expensive for my little retirement... I'll think about it again and continue my research...
Click to expand...

Yes, keep looking PERLOU, and I hope you find something. If not, I hope we can come up with a solution for you at some point.

You may want to contact this person: https://www.adnf.org/contact_adnf.htm
I spoke with him twice, and he was super helpful and kind, so he may have some useful advice for you. You can say you call on my behalf if you want.
 
I had my 4th NeurOptimal (NO) session on Wednesday. Yesterday I started to have a physiological reaction of heightened agitation in my body and a general feeling of anxiety that is more than my normal state of underlying anxiety. I think this is at least in part tied into worries related to some investments (cryptocurrencies) and having taxes due in April. I have it pretty much sorted out with the help of CPA and I won’t have an issues paying etc, but it has been on my mind. The feeling I experienced yesterday is kind of like an underlying energetic restlessness and hypervigilance. I did yoga yesterday, had done EE the night before, and it helped with this feeling, yet yesterday early evening I felt this feeling grow, peak and then subside later in the evening. The feeling was similar to how I felt at times in the days following an anxiety attack I had in August of last year.

I looked for information for using neurofeedback and NO for people that have been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and couldn’t find anything mentioning that it is contraindicated. The material I found said that it is early in use of neurofeedback/NO to tell if it has specific benefits or any drawbacks. I will keep searching on this in the next couple days. Also, found info that it is supposed to help people with anxiety issues in general.

I have a session scheduled for tomorrow, Monday and Wednesday before I depart on a trip at the end of the week. I don’t know if I should do the session tomorrow and see if things settle out before doing more sessions. Maybe using NO is stirring up or allowing the release of old feelings, old anxiety patterns or states leading me to feel the way I did yesterday and today to a lot lesser degree.
 
I've had two more sessions. It's good to know there are others have had higher numbers after a session, and that it isn't weird, or your brain isn't 'getting it'. The Monday sessions showed almost no change. Yesterday was a 50 pt-ish diversion higher, even thought for the first time I was so relaxed, I nearly fell asleep. I guess the subjective experience doesn't seem to have much to do with what a brain is up to in a session.

I've noticed being more emotional, and watching this presentation by Jordan Peterson while he was in London, I found myself quietly crying at how much compassion he has for people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RCmu-HuTg

I'm still sleeping better, and seem to be getting some side goals like working out on track That's nice.
 
Bear said:
I have a session scheduled for tomorrow, Monday and Wednesday before I depart on a trip at the end of the week. I don’t know if I should do the session tomorrow and see if things settle out before doing more sessions. Maybe using NO is stirring up or allowing the release of old feelings, old anxiety patterns or states leading me to feel the way I did yesterday and today to a lot lesser degree.
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All I can say is that according to our practitioner, Neurofeedback (or the process it starts during a session) continues for 48 hours after the session, and then you brain goes back to the previous state, with mild changes depending on how much it learned (hence the need for multiple sessions). If you have to travel and are having doubts about it because of the intensity of your anxiety, then perhaps it's better to listen to your body and take it slowly? She did say that some people overdo it, and then it can be counterproductive (too much stuff to process at once, from emotions resurfacing to new thinking pathways, which can cause stress and defeat the purpose.)
 
Chu said:
All I can say is that according to our practitioner, Neurofeedback (or the process it starts during a session) continues for 48 hours after the session, and then you brain goes back to the previous state, with mild changes depending on how much it learned (hence the need for multiple sessions). If you have to travel and are having doubts about it because of the intensity of your anxiety, then perhaps it's better to listen to your body and take it slowly? She did say that some people overdo it, and then it can be counterproductive (too much stuff to process at once, from emotions resurfacing to new thinking pathways, which can cause stress and defeat the purpose.)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. I think I should listen to my body and go slow. I'm going to back off a bit, as I've also done today with most things that could cause anxiety, and not do the session tomorrow and evaluated from there if I want to give a session on Monday a try.
 
I slept for 7 hours last night, with one brief interruption and feel less jittery this morning. I too was hungry when I got home and ate an early dinner. It was hard deciding which my body wanted more, food or to lie down.

BM, it sounds like what you've been doing is positive feedback based where the NeurOptimal is negative feedback based, mentioned by the practitioner I visited. From what I understand it's not generally arousing like the positive feedback model. I think it's been talked about either in this thread or something I read.

This certainly is an interesting journey and thank you to everyone for all of the information posted.
 
I had my first neurofeedback session yesterday. The practitioner has been working with some of the pioneers of neurofeedback for decades and is well-versed in neuroscience and psychology. She said she is now only working with the NeurOptimal system as she agrees it is the safest and most effective system.

She talked with me during the first part of the session and I was able to watch a screen that showed the different frequencies where the software was detecting areas that needed correcting. The baseline readings showed that my brain was integrating the training and I noticed I felt significantly calmer after the session. One thing she pointed out is that I showed evidence of significant stress in the brainstem in the right hemisphere; she mentioned that that usually inhibits the ability to concentrate the intellect, and that I should see improvement over time.

I didn’t notice being particularly tired but did sleep much longer than usual and had much more vivid dreams. I felt some anger surfacing a few hours after the training, but took a long walk and that helped to process the emotions. I sense this is really going to allow some old emotions to surface, much more than the EMDR or CBT therapy, and for that I am grateful – even if the process is unsettling. Other than that I noticed I am more focused and have more mental energy than I have had in the past few weeks.
 
Like Bear, I was having anxiety and also racing thoughts especially when I went to bed. I had already upped my melatonin but for some reason, that didn't help me to get to sleep. It helped me sleep through once I did get to sleep, though. So, last night I tried a melatonin and GABAcalm together; it worked like a charm. Went to sleep quickly and slept through 8 hours. So, I'm thinking that the work that my brain was doing from the sessions may have been depleting my brain in some way.
 
Laura said:
Like Bear, I was having anxiety and also racing thoughts especially when I went to bed. I had already upped my melatonin but for some reason, that didn't help me to get to sleep. It helped me sleep through once I did get to sleep, though. So, last night I tried a melatonin and GABAcalm together; it worked like a charm. Went to sleep quickly and slept through 8 hours. So, I'm thinking that the work that my brain was doing from the sessions may have been depleting my brain in some way.
Click to expand...

I had another session yesterday afternoon, my 5th, and had a similar experience, except not much anxiety, trying to sleep. I just tossed and turned trying to sleep with really strong racing thoughts. Melatonin seemed to have no effect whatsoever on me. I guess I need to up my melatonin dose (3mg currently) and/or take the GABAcalm with it. The interesting thing is that I've been feeling sharper and clearer mentally when awake. But boy did sleeping just not work. There might be other factors that affected me though, since I've got a cold and took liposomal vitamin C around 8pm which could have energized me.
 
Merci CHU pour ton message,
J'ai contacté un médecin Neurofeedback qui me propose un entretien d'une heure et demie dans un premier temps.
Les séances sont à 50 euros.
Etant invalide prise en charge Sécurité Sociale à 100% et sans voiture, elle me propose un bon de transport en taxi pour ce premier entretien.
J'attends de ses nouvelles car je suis obligée d'emmener mes deux petits Yorks qui si je les laisse à la maison aboient tout le temps de mon absence, c'est de ma faute car ils ne sont jamais seuls... J'espère qu'elle acceptera, sinon il faudra qu'ils restent avec mon accompagnatrice.
Je dois être accompagnée si je sors de chez moi : chauffeur et voiture 20 euros de l'heure.
Y a t il un membre du forum qui se trouve près de chez moi Cagnes sur Mer ?
Je vous tiens au courant.
Merci pour tous vos partages plus intéressants les uns que les autres.

Thank you CHU for your message,
I contacted a Neurofeedback doctor who offered me an hour and a half interview at first.
The sessions are 50 euros.
Being a disabled person with 100% Social Security coverage and without a car, she offers me a taxi transport voucher for this first interview.
I'm waiting to hear from him because I have to take my two little Yorks that if I leave them at home bark all the time of my absence, it's my fault because they are never alone... I hope she will accept, otherwise they will have to stay with my companion.
I have to be accompanied if I leave home: driver and car 20 euros per hour.
Is there a member of the forum who is near my place Cagnes sur Mer?
I'll keep you posted.
Thank you for all your interesting sharing.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 
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