NeuroFeedback and Electroencephalography

Renaissance

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Approaching Infinity said:
Renaissance said:
Gandalf said:
goyacobol said:
There is an interesting guidelines PDF on the NeurOptimal site that debunks some myths about the system such as how frequent can the sessions be:

NeurOptimal Myth Busters
Thanks so much goyacobol. Since we are going to have the system for one month, we wanted to do a session a day but we had some doubts about the frequency.

As they say "onward and upward" for a session a day.
Now sure if you were saying you're going forward with a session per day, but in the pdf it recommends not doing it every day so your brain has time to process. They mention you should allow two nights sleep between sessions.
Which PDF? The one goyacobol posted debunks that as a myth (#1), saying you can do 2 sessions a day if you want.
Your right! I misread it.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I have been thinking that in the last session the Cs said this may benefit "some". If that is the case maybe it will not work that way for everyone trying NeurOptimal.

Session 10 February 2018
Q: (L) Well, that's pretty interesting. I was just talking about this neurofeedback thing and that I noticed some sort of feedback effect from the solitaire game on my computer. I was able to not only induce certain phenomena at the end of the game, but after the second session of the neurofeedback, I was winning twice as many games as normal. Is that an effect of neurofeedback, that it enhances that kind of brain power?

A: For some, yes.
One reason I am wondering about the reactions are some comments in a CONSENT FOR TRAINING WITH NEUROPTIMAL form I noticed. _http://www.shirleyjeanschmidt.com/doc/nfconsentform.pdf
(I am not sure if this is for all trainers or just this one from Jean Schmidt)

On-going change. Your tastes can change- things that have been appealing to you in the past may not seem as much fun any
more. While this is usually seen as positive, if you earn your living by one of these senses, please be aware these senses may
change. So wine may not taste the same, for example. If you are an energy reader or healer, as you shift you may feel a bit “out
of water” as you reach for the familiar and find it is not there in the same way as it was before. You will settle into your new
structure, but its unfamiliarity can be a bit unsettling at first. However, if you have had a particular talent that has been based
on “being parked” (or stuck) in a particular state, such as seeing auras all the time whether you want to or not, you may find
this “talent” dropping away as the cns drops its points of stuckness. You will have access to these states, but you will need to
develop the skill to “go there” and “come back”.
As your changes (whatever they are) become more stable, they will become
your new norm, which will remain with you through your lifetime. It’s like learning how to read or swim. Once you know, you
cannot not, know, although you may get rusty. Your brain is living tissue and can get thrown off by stress, chemicals, hormonal
changes, a general anesthetic or other challenge. If this happens to you, a few booster sessions will help your brain return to its
good place.
It looks like they may have had experience with some people that have unusual abilities who find them not as readily accessible after using NeurOptimal.

They say:

You will have access to these states, but you will need to develop the skill to “go there” and “come back”.
But is this something we should think about?
 

Laura

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goyacobol said:
I have been thinking that in the last session the Cs said this may benefit "some". If that is the case maybe it will not work that way for everyone trying NeurOptimal.

Session 10 February 2018
Q: (L) Well, that's pretty interesting. I was just talking about this neurofeedback thing and that I noticed some sort of feedback effect from the solitaire game on my computer. I was able to not only induce certain phenomena at the end of the game, but after the second session of the neurofeedback, I was winning twice as many games as normal. Is that an effect of neurofeedback, that it enhances that kind of brain power?

A: For some, yes.
Actually, the Cs were NOT saying that it will BENEFIT SOME, but rather the discussion was about psychic abilities.
 

Gaby

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Gandalf said:
goyacobol said:
There is an interesting guidelines PDF on the NeurOptimal site that debunks some myths about the system such as how frequent can the sessions be:

NeurOptimal Myth Busters
Thanks so much goyacobol. Since we are going to have the system for one month, we wanted to do a session a day but we had some doubts about the frequency.

As they say "onward and upward" for a session a day.
Since my working schedule can run from Friday morning until Monday, I decided to fit all my sessions whenever I'm at home. So I did 2 sessions on Monday, one yesterday and I'm planning to do another one today and tomorrow. There, 5 sessions in one week.

I didn't notice anything detrimental with 2 sessions per day. On the contrary, there was this feeling of getting grounded and centered and as a side-effect, some dissociative fantasies have lost their appeal. Like I don't want "candy" anymore.

After my 3rd and last NeurOptimal session yesterday, I noticed some anger. I usually split off anger and project it elsewhere, and getting angry abruptly has lead to pretty bad results in the past. So integrating anger in a non-destructive way is a priority for me. We'll see.

The NeurOptimal home unit comes with 20 sessions per one month and the representative encouraged doing all the sessions in one month.

The boomerang effect I was getting from the Othmer NF after two days was way too much. I'm thinking that if the brain gets feedback on how it should work optimally, this boomerang effect will not feel so destructive. The feedback itself would encourage the observer part of yourself that is so crucial to integrate disowned feelings and other issues in a non-destructive way.

Just some thoughts.
 

Gaby

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goyacobol said:
It looks like they may have had experience with some people that have unusual abilities who find them not as readily accessible after using NeurOptimal.
Since my last Othmer NF session, I have had some trouble remembering my dreams which are often an energetic reading of current events. It felt like I was losing my compass. After 3 consecutive NeurOptimal sessions, I'm recalling more again. We'll see. I'll knock on wood and hope that it doesn't matter if I don't have perfect dream recall if other areas in my life are benefiting.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
goyacobol said:
I have been thinking that in the last session the Cs said this may benefit "some". If that is the case maybe it will not work that way for everyone trying NeurOptimal.

Session 10 February 2018
Q: (L) Well, that's pretty interesting. I was just talking about this neurofeedback thing and that I noticed some sort of feedback effect from the solitaire game on my computer. I was able to not only induce certain phenomena at the end of the game, but after the second session of the neurofeedback, I was winning twice as many games as normal. Is that an effect of neurofeedback, that it enhances that kind of brain power?

A: For some, yes.
Actually, the Cs were NOT saying that it will BENEFIT SOME, but rather the discussion was about psychic abilities.
I see that now. It was the solitaire game. I am just being a nervous Nancy probably. I need some more NO sessions to calm down. I think Gaby is finding out about her dream functions so that is a good monitor on how it may work. Actually, the possibilities of NO had me the most excited in the session since your question was:

(L) And those are the kinds of things that probably the neurofeedback can fix more easily than anything else because those are things that produce certain brain waves that persist over time. There's no other way to get to them because you can't TALK your way through something that's preverbal! You can get into some kind of body therapy and spend years with a therapist, but why do that when you can just go directly and change the brain waves? And if you change brain waves, the brain's going to change. Right?

A: Yes yes yes!
Yes, yes, yes sounds like a go to me. Sorry for the noise about "some".
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Gaby said:
goyacobol said:
It looks like they may have had experience with some people that have unusual abilities who find them not as readily accessible after using NeurOptimal.
Since my last Othmer NF session, I have had some trouble remembering my dreams which are often an energetic reading of current events. It felt like I was losing my compass. After 3 consecutive NeurOptimal sessions, I'm recalling more again. We'll see. I'll knock on wood and hope that it doesn't matter if I don't have perfect dream recall if other areas in my life are benefiting.
Thanks for the update Gaby. I made a mistake on the "some" reference. It was specifically after talking about psychic abilities so most others won't probably notice much change that way. It sounds like you can still get access to the same abilities as they claim. Knock on wood as you say.
 

Chu

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goyacobol said:
I see that now. It was the solitaire game. I am just being a nervous Nancy probably. I need some more NO sessions to calm down. I think Gaby is finding out about her dream functions so that is a good monitor on how it may work. Actually, the possibilities of NO had me the most excited in the session since your question was:

(L) And those are the kinds of things that probably the neurofeedback can fix more easily than anything else because those are things that produce certain brain waves that persist over time. There's no other way to get to them because you can't TALK your way through something that's preverbal! You can get into some kind of body therapy and spend years with a therapist, but why do that when you can just go directly and change the brain waves? And if you change brain waves, the brain's going to change. Right?

A: Yes yes yes!
Yes, yes, yes sounds like a go to me. Sorry for the noise about "some".
No reason to be nervous, goyacobol. If you think about it, it makes sense if what they describe in that quote you shared is true: people with psychic abilities should be able to choose and decide when and how they want to use them! So, it would be a plus, instead of it being automatic and erratic. And as for dreams, it makes sense that if we learn to be more in the present, then the way we dream changes too, and become just another way to process and reach the subconscious mind, but not the predominant one. More awareness, less need for stuff to only come up through dreams and sleepy waves (that's a scientific term! ;D). And those who used to not remember their dreams much, they may start doing so with the NO sessions when things need to be processed that way. Maybe? I think it's one of those things where you need to have a bit of faith in the process, and not try to control the outcome so much. Your brain supposedly knows what it's doing.

FWIW.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
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Chu said:
goyacobol said:
I see that now. It was the solitaire game. I am just being a nervous Nancy probably. I need some more NO sessions to calm down. I think Gaby is finding out about her dream functions so that is a good monitor on how it may work. Actually, the possibilities of NO had me the most excited in the session since your question was:

(L) And those are the kinds of things that probably the neurofeedback can fix more easily than anything else because those are things that produce certain brain waves that persist over time. There's no other way to get to them because you can't TALK your way through something that's preverbal! You can get into some kind of body therapy and spend years with a therapist, but why do that when you can just go directly and change the brain waves? And if you change brain waves, the brain's going to change. Right?

A: Yes yes yes!
Yes, yes, yes sounds like a go to me. Sorry for the noise about "some".
No reason to be nervous, goyacobol. If you think about it, it makes sense if what they describe in that quote you shared is true: people with psychic abilities should be able to choose and decide when and how they want to use them! So, it would be a plus, instead of it being automatic and erratic. And as for dreams, it makes sense that if we learn to be more in the present, then the way we dream changes too, and become just another way to process and reach the subconscious mind, but not the predominant one. More awareness, less need for stuff to only come up through dreams and sleepy waves (that's a scientific term! ;D). And those who used to not remember their dreams much, they may start doing so with the NO sessions when things need to be processed that way. Maybe? I think it's one of those things where you need to have a bit of faith in the process, and not try to control the outcome so much. Your brain supposedly knows what it's doing.

FWIW.
Thanks Chu. I am feeling more positive about the NO than ever now. If it wasn't for the networking many of us would not even be able to try NO. It is amazing how all of our reading and Work seems to be going towards the same goal of balance. It looks like Laura and some others will even see improvement with neurofeedback for those abilities they mention according to the Cs "For some, yes". It sounds like no matter what needs improvement NO is a more gentle and gradual method to bring the brain into balance.

Having more "present" dreams sounds like it could be an amazing improvement.
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
goyacobol said:
However, if you have had a particular talent that has been based
on “being parked” (or stuck) in a particular state, such as seeing auras all the time whether you want to or not, you may find
this “talent” dropping away as the cns drops its points of stuckness. You will have access to these states, but you will need to
develop the skill to “go there” and “come back”. As your changes (whatever they are) become more stable, they will become
your new norm, which will remain with you through your lifetime. It’s like learning how to read or swim. Once you know, you
cannot not, know, although you may get rusty. Your brain is living tissue and can get thrown off by stress, chemicals, hormonal
changes, a general anesthetic or other challenge. If this happens to you, a few booster sessions will help your brain return to its
good place.
It looks like they may have had experience with some people that have unusual abilities who find them not as readily accessible after using NeurOptimal.

They say:

You will have access to these states, but you will need to develop the skill to “go there” and “come back”.
But is this something we should think about?
Seeing auras a lot of times is a cold reading that the subconscious does without needing to intend to cold read. I think a lot of people who think that they are psychic, are not. But of course there are the real deal out there.

I don't doubt that some really do see auras, but I do think a lot of the kooky new agers that claim to be able to are just seeing what they want to see.
I think maybe those kind of false psychic abilities, though seeming real and not deliberately faked, are perhaps a byproduct of a brain disorder fade away.

Meanwhile the real abilities are still there and can be called up.
 

Chu

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Moderator
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goyacobol said:
Thanks Chu. I am feeling more positive about the NO than ever now. If it wasn't for the networking many of us would not even be able to try NO. It is amazing how all of our reading and Work seems to be going towards the same goal of balance. It looks like Laura and some others will even see improvement with neurofeedback for those abilities they mention according to the Cs "For some, yes". It sounds like no matter what needs improvement NO is a more gentle and gradual method to bring the brain into balance.

Having more "present" dreams sounds like it could be an amazing improvement.
Glad to hear that you're feeling positive, and yes! For me dreams were very vivid in the beginning, life reviews and such. Then they moved into being specific things to work on or process. And recently, I had some "spiritual" ones (life choices inside a church, for example), or almost like motivational dreams, for lack of a better word. Like some part of myself letting go of anxiety and fear. Something is going on, and in spite of the process being bumpy, with ups and downs, I think it is doing something good. But each person (and each brain) is different, so we'll see! It's often a combination of many things. Look back through the years. Not one approach or technique or diet has helped everyone in the same way, but the combination is certainly favorable for most, not to mention what interesting an experiment it is when each time we get to know our machines a bit better. :)
 

Meg

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I had my 5th NO session on the 23rd. I didn't notice anything particular, but I felt even more relaxed and feel stable. I got excited for no reason and felt energized around 10 that night. I felt that excitement again on the 25th when I arrived at work, again no reason I could think of, but I had a really great day.

I've also had the weird sensation again (after the 5th one) of something piercing my head, this time to the right on the top of my head. Also tingling, tickling sensations around the top of my head. It might be something related to birth or infancy when babies have those soft spots (fontanels according to this website) on their heads. I don't know.

I had my 6th NO session today. I was the most relaxed I've been. I've been sleeping well and deeply and still dreaming quite a bit. After about an hour after this session, the tingling, tickling sensations started at the top of my head again. And I felt excited, again, about who knows what :).

Overall, I feel more stable, less anxious after each session. Work and everyday tasks aren't as overwhelming. My thinking is clearer and I am better able to talk myself down from imagined slights and see some of my thinking errors. I am looking forward to more sessions.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Divide By Zero said:
<snip>
Seeing auras a lot of times is a cold reading that the subconscious does without needing to intend to cold read. I think a lot of people who think that they are psychic, are not. But of course there are the real deal out there.

I don't doubt that some really do see auras, but I do think a lot of the kooky new agers that claim to be able to are just seeing what they want to see.
I think maybe those kind of false psychic abilities, though seeming real and not deliberately faked, are perhaps a byproduct of a brain disorder fade away.

Meanwhile the real abilities are still there and can be called up.
I knew you were going to say that DBZ...(just kidding)... :P
 

shijing

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I had my first two NeurOptimal sessions earlier this week on Monday and Tuesday afternoon. These followed an intake session I had last week where the practitioner asked why I was interested in trying neurofeedback, discussed some personal issues, and then took questions from me about the process. He mentioned the following things:

  • The neurofeedback process is operating at a very high speed, much of which happens outside of conscious awareness because it is so fast. The skips that we are aware of are the bigger, longer ones -- there are many more skips that we are unaware of because they happen so quickly. Our brains register them and they are part of the training process, but we don't recognize them while we are participating in the session.
  • He has worked with neurofeedback for 26 years, using several different systems, and in his opinion NeurOptimal is the best one created so far for reasons given earlier in this thread. Nevertheless, he said that negative effects with other driver-oriented systems usually only occur when the practitioner has had insufficient training. He doesn't recommend against driver-oriented systems, but strongly suggests that one checks the credentials and experience of anyone who operates them before agreeing to do sessions with them.
  • He has had a lot of success with chronic pain issues. He claims to have one of the most successful practices in town, largely thanks to word of mouth. He told me that allopathic doctors often consider neurofeedback to be a kind of voodoo, but one came to him a few years ago to help with her TMJ issues because nothing else had worked so far. After experiencing a notable reduction in her pain, she recommended it to other doctors who then started signing up for sessions. They don't talk about it openly, but they apparently agree about its effectiveness when they discuss it privately amongst themselves.
  • There doesn't seem to be any need to wait for a set period between sessions. Some of his clients have to travel long distances for treatments, and in these cases he gives them two back-to-back sessions on the first day, and two more sessions on the second day before they have to drive back home.

I haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary (that I'm aware of) after the first two sessions, either positive or negative, with the exception of what felt like some light pressure in the upper left part of my head at the end of the first session. Before my intake session, I was asked to do a self-evaluation form to establish my depression and anxiety levels which were both moderately high -- I've continued to experience both after the second session, but nothing outside the realm of normal variation for myself. I was curious to see if it would effect my dream recall like some people have reported (I usually only recall maybe 3 or 4 dreams per year) -- so far it doesn't seem to have impacted that, but I'll be curious to see if that changes as I have more sessions. I'm currently scheduled for two sessions a week at the beginning of each week, and I'm going to see how it goes.
 

PERLOU

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Je n'ai pas encore pris une séance de Neurofeedback mais quand vous parler de picotement et de pression dans le cerveau, je les ressens avec EE à chaque fois et j'essai de suivre leurs parcours dans mon cerveau de gauche à droite de l'oreille gauche à droite en passant par le dessus du crâne...
Je vois aussi les auras depuis plusieurs années mais pas en couleur...
En général je ne les cherche pas, quelques fois elles me sautaient à la figure par exemple dans le métro et les restaurants...
Etant isolée maintenant je n'en vois plus ne rencontrant personne...

I haven't taken a Neurofeedback session yet but when you talk about tingling and pressure in the brain, I feel them with EE each time and I try to follow their path in my brain from left to right from left ear to right through the top of the skull...
I also see auras for several years but not in color...
Usually I don't look for them, sometimes they used to jump in my face for example in the subway and restaurants...
Being isolated now I don't see any more not meeting anyone...

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 
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