NeuroFeedback and Electroencephalography

Breo

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I had now my first 6 weekly NO sessions. I wanted to go twice a week but technically it is not possible with this practitioner who is the only one in town.

On the same day before, in the morning I have a 1-2 weekly trauma therapy with a kinesiologist and an osteopath together since 4 months. This seems to work well as I am able to go through old stuff that I never had access to before. There are a lot of positive changes, concerning emotional stress and shifts in physical tension and symptoms. More miles to walk, much to heal ahead. They both are experienced and I feel safe with them.

NO Session 1-5 where overall calming and soothing experiences. I noticed several skips in the music. During session 3-4 I even dozed or slept deeply for some time, which is rare for me, as I tend to be chronically overactive. Afterwards I felt after a very good sleep, more quiet, stable and distant to upcoming negative thoughts or emotions, e.g. anxiety, worries and negative thoughts. The effect lasts noticeable for me 1-2 days, could be longer. Up to now a positive experience, and I am eager to continue.
 

nature

Jedi Council Member
Assembling means, as you do, is a good idea (kinesiologist, osteopath / NO) .

I haven't yet been able to see a practitionner (kinesio and/or osteo) but I'm currently reading some articles on PTSD. They helped me in seeing how we are not aware of our programs, of the impact of our past perceptions, of the persistense of our childhood defense reactions. They helped me seeing clear: yesterday, while reading Pete Walker, some events from my very early childhood (baby) emerged. The events were not traumatic per se, and my parents were caring, but the baby (I was) probably perceived a great distress. And this morning, my NO session showed incredibly shortened bars! I know that the features on the schemas are not as relevant as clinical symptoms (your feelings, thinkings, sleeping, behavior, etc in everyday life), but it's so surprising to see for the first time so shortened bars (contiguous to the middle line!). I no more count the number of sessions I undergo, but roughly, I would say 50.

My next lecture will be HDT. I think it will help a lot in association with NO. A good practitioner will be a great help, too.
 

Breo

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Assembling means, as you do, is a good idea (kinesiologist, osteopath / NO).
Yes, thats my experience too, that it is a relevent aspect for healing, not to stick to just one method or practioner, as each will address different areas and levels.

In this period, I work with a GP/MD with a kinesiolgy background for testing my supplements, I see her every 2 months. Working well. And the above mentioned two: One is a psychotherapist specialized on PTSD. She is working with this osteopath/kinesiologist. Depending on what I bring up, we test the starting age of a topic/pattern and if that has priority today. Then we do a work that is a combination of hypnotherapy and osteopathic bodywork. At the moment many issues are prenatal, natal and toddler age. It is a deep emotional detox. When I take care of filling up with supplements and enough rest, its flowing, meaning my system can contain the process.

NO seems to help me a lot to integrate all of that and the beauty of it is that its dynamic and open. Up to now I really enjoy the NO sessions.
 

jhonny

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I also wanted to share my experience with you, but before I tell you, I have to say thank you to you all at the Chateau crew who helped me with my 13 NO sessions.
After having the first one I could sleep for 8 hours, and I tel you this because I usually sleep about 6 a 7 hours. I also had a vividly dream, this is also extrange to me because I don't remember when I dream. the other thing that happened was, when I woke up I had an slightly headache for about 2 hours.
From the 2nd to the 4th I felt asleep like a baby. Further sessions I could read without beeing that sleepy.
I also have to say the first 4 days I felt a little bit tired, I don't know whether that was because of the hot temperature or the NO sessions :huh:.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
To share my experience,

I think that the NO did a Wonderfull job. When I underwent it I felt relaxed, not in a dreamy state, but just relaxed. It also allowed me to self-reflect on things in a very clear manner. Or at least, clearer than I ever could.

I feel like I can make decisions more structured and precise. I’m still chaotic and to be honest a clumsy person. I mean, on occasion I even remember things in the wrong order. What happened and how.

But now I literally feel like I got more space to think. I’m definitely going to hire the machine so I'll share any possible updates in this topic about it.

Many thanks for making this possible! :hug:
 

Mariama

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
So far I have had about 50 sessions. In June I rented the machine for a month and my youngest child and I did one session a day. Although I contracted a respiratory airway infection which lasted for more than two weeks I continued doing the sessions. I suspect I got rid of some old stuff that way, because I had bronchitis after some major emotional upheaval in my life when I was 11 years old. Then this month I had a few more sessions which brought about deep healing (it feels like a cleansing). I was in a situation where I acted out some old trauma, I could see myself doing it but didn't understand why and came up with a narrative instead. Going against it coupled with dissociation was very tiring, until I made the connection what was behind it and then it could become conscious.

I thought this bit from Healing Developmental Trauma was interesting, it certainly explains my responses:
In the case of severe trauma and posttraumatic stress disorder, high levels of cortisol can cause cell damage or even complete shutdown in hippocampal system, precipitating impairments in explicit memory. In such cases, traumatized individuals cannot express what happened to them in words, and their memories manifest implicitly as dissociative behaviors, startle responses, nightmares, and visual and somatic flashbacks.
What I am trying to say is that NO is not a cure, but a catalyst for change (as a therapist put it). I still had to go through old pain and it was difficult, but I am pretty certain that NO gave me the fortitude and the clarity of mind to deal with it. I feel immensely grateful to this forum.
 
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mabar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
So, it was my first NO session, I reached it with a headache (anxiety, stress), after the session it lessen, I closed my eyes to listen more to the music and the glitches because, since in other dispositives as tv, internet-videos, music due whatever singal or low velocity usually comes with glitches and my mind had accostumed to disregard them, so in order to focus in them I prefered to close my eyes instead of seeing the video. After reaching home my purpose was to keep working on other things but, the headache came back or I noticed it more, took an aspirin and, usually as it happens came more stronger before dissipates, so I just lay down and fall sleep for two hours, to wich it worries for a moment because then I cannot fall asleep that easily, but I did .... This morning I awoke feeling quite nice, I was suprised!! I had been quite stressful with a lot of work at my job, but today everything went quite well.
 

Zar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I posted this on the western canada thread but thought I'd copy part of it here. I spoke in depth with my NO practitioner and she had loads to say. This is basically a summary.

After thinking about it and speaking to P*** I don't think buying a machine right now is a very good idea. The costs are simply too high, and there are way too many problems with the tablets/protocols/updates/etc.. Val doesn't seem like he wants to hear any problematic news and is suppressing all rational concerns, and is just pushing his idea while ignoring the signs that tell him to slow down(hope he's not being ponerized, that tends to happen to these type of people). I don't think people are ready for Val's dream(having one tablet in every kitchen) and there is too much of a hype in the NO community to think rationally about the current problems and continual updates.

It seems like Val's releases of NO 3 (when he barely had the mathematics figured out) was done prematurely, since there was a storageful of tablets that were about to be outdated very quickly. There are way too many kinks in the system and one of the tablets sold can barely keep up with the software. Also it seems like microsoft is not helping with the ever upgrading tablets.

....
I'm hoping these are just growing pains for Val and zengar but I wouldn't be surprised if something tried to ponerize NO/Val.
 
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Divide by Zero

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It doesn't need to be ponerization of Val leading to this. In the radio interview, he seemed a bit too optimistic/positive for someone who has to deal with development of devices/protocols. He didn't really explain much about what was going on, just like the other NO speakers I have listened/read, they like to keep saying "dynamical" as their magic term.

I still feel like this "black box" mathematics is not exactly as universal as it seems, especially since it is not independently tested or evaluated.

Rushing out the update can be from pure drive/motivation or even greed (costs of upgrading, etc) which leads to issues without no outside ponerization needed.
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I finished 32 sessions in mid July. I was doing one every day, but the last week I skipped a day or two here and there. If I do it again, I won't do it every day. It seemed too much at times, but I just pushed through it. I didn't do beatha during EE, so there wouldn't be an overload of emotional processing.

I noticed quickly that my sleep was better, even when I slept for fewer hours than I would like. I also noticed a bit of distance in things that come up in life, even emotionally challenging ones. I noticed a bit of ESP in the form of thinking about someone and then they would text me. Dreams were more active too, and I had two minor premonition dreams.

The first retraction phase came soon after starting and I had anger come up. I became really irritable and would be a bit apologetic around family, letting them know that I was processing things with NO. I think there was an extra anxiety phase too. But around the last week that weekend I had a really depressive and unmotivated phase. So I was glad that I was almost done then, and that was also the time where I started skipping a day or two.

Somewhere around session 18 I had a breakthrough where it seemed like reality was more real and I had an increased physical awareness of things. Not so much awareness like we talk on the forum for means of protection, but noticing little things and realizing that I'm navigating through this world, I guess. The day of session 20 I was at work and felt a calmness. And I noticed what it was like to be anxious, because at that moment I was not anxious. So it was weird to be able to identify it due to its absence. Session 28 I had my background anxiety go away. I recall it was a nice pleasant feeling where you just do what needs to be done and don't worry much about things.

My mom said I was more upbeat and talkative. But my therapist didn't notice anything after the sessions had ended. I wonder if NO can strip away defensive mechanisms that you've built, and it leaves you a bit vulnerable after you're done because you have to come up with a new way of dealing with things? I noticed that a bit after I was done.

I mainly rated my mood, tiredness, and brain chemical states during sessions. I didn't watch the GForce visual most of the time, because I would close my eyes. But when I did watch it, I thought it was really well done. Some of the color palettes were interesting. A few times I nearly fell asleep. And when I was close to sleeping I would not hear any clicks, but when I woke up a bit I'd think, "Oh there they are." So I don't think you consciously hear them if asleep or dozing off.

This past week I had a dream where I put the sensors on my head, but not the thermal paste. Don't know what that means, if anything. Not sure if I will do it again, I'll just see how things go. And hopefully I can get away with one or a few sessions a week if so. I still want to try speedreading so I can get through the books faster, and the McGuff exercises.
 

Gandalf

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I posted this on the western canada thread but thought I'd copy part of it here. I spoke in depth with my NO practitioner and she had loads to say. This is basically a summary.
to which I wrote:

May I say that I'm a bit surprised. My wife bought a NO3 with the new tablet and since we have it we didn't have any kind of problems with any kind of update. The tablet is working fine.

I'm a member of the Neuroptimal community on facebook and as far as I can see, some people have effectively some problems but really I'm not sure right now if most of the problems are due to the tablet or to the fact that many people have no idea about the computer' world or how it works.
 

Zar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
May I say that I'm a bit surprised. My wife bought a NO3 with the new tablet and since we have it we didn't have any kind of problems with any kind of update. The tablet is working fine.

I'm a member of the Neuroptimal community on facebook and as far as I can see, some people have effectively some problems but really I'm not sure right now if most of the problems are due to the tablet or to the fact that many people have no idea about the computer' world or how it works.
My 2 cents.


Well according to this NO practitioner one of the tables can't handle the software, the other one seems fine. I can't remember which of the two works, but the one that doesn't work needs to be fixed relatively soon since it operates at 98% CPU capacity constantly out of the box(and that's a product issue). Many people who are buying the wrong one have to pay an additional 1000 dollars for a type of insurance to send their tablet to get fixed while they use another temporary one provided by Zengar. You may have gotten the better one. And with the constant updates there have been many practitioners who have had to close their clinic for days if not weeks as their system gets fixed(this may be company growing pains though).

But it's things like Zengar altering the selling currency between US or CAD dollars depending on which has more value that rubs me the wrong way. This makes business sense I guess, but if Val wants this machine on every kitchen table... Who has 13k+ to spend on this, it's way too expensive for the general public. Or reducing the amounts of sessions on one of the lower priced machines to 100 from 300, or even cancelling the "masters certificate" from the NO practitioners when they've spent thousands of dollars to get it(though I get that Val wants to make NO very simple for the users, that's kind of a slap on the face to these people who got the certificate). Microsoft apparently also has another tablet they will roll out so all the previous ones will be outdated in the next couple of years. Also I've been told that some people who have suffered head injuries and such can't handle NO 3 as it's too powerful, but Val wants to rid NO 2(which works fine in my opinion). My NO practitioner also mentioned that the most wanted NO machine right now is the ASUS laptop in the community, and I don't see why Val can't sell the NO on a laptop instead of a tablet.

This information comes from my NO practitioner who has been very involved in the NO community for a decade, but I can't really verify most of it.

I'm not saying you can't be profitable using NO in your clinic or that it's a good or bad idea(not for a while since you'll have 13k to catch up on and hope nothing goes wrong or changes), and it helps if you are computer savvy, but for us here in western Canada paying 13k+ just doesn't make sense as we won't have a clinic so we won't get that value back.
We should continue the discussion here instead of the Canadian thread I think. And let me know if you've heard otherwise or if I'm not thinking logically.
 

Gandalf

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
This information comes from my NO practitioner who has been very involved in the NO community for a decade, but I can't really verify most of it.
Can I verify that info with another practitioner?

I'm not saying you can't be profitable using NO in your clinic or that it's a good or bad idea(not for a while since you'll have 13k to catch up on and hope nothing goes wrong or changes), and it helps if you are computer savvy, but for us here in western Canada paying 13k+ just doesn't make sense as we won't have a clinic so we won't get that value back.
My way of seeing it is a bit different. Many people spent thousand of dollars trying to ameliorate/cure/solve some issues that they have with no or very small results. When you consider that seeing a psychologist can cost 100$/session and if you want some results you must make an appointment each week for a couple of years, at the end it is pretty expensive (100$x40weeksx3years=12 000$). So, I think that someone has also to consider the emotional/psychological/physical benefits to evaluate properly the real cost of NO3.

And I understand that you don't have a clinic but you can still rent the NO3 for week/month, offer free sessions to friends before renting it, organize meetings with family, friends to share the information about the Neuroptimal system...

And as usual, have faith in the Universe and the Universe will take care of that.

We should continue the discussion here instead of the Canadian thread I think. And let me know if you've heard otherwise or if I'm not thinking logically.
Good idea.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
We've had some issues with NO3 on the laptop, but nothing huge. A few times, the CPU was so overloaded (98-100%) that the session stopped a bit too early (the system crushed), or there were other times with it would slow down, causing "long clicks" (not real clicks, but the system taking long to load).

That had happened once with NO 2, but it seems to be more frequent with NO 3. I hear they are trying to fix it. Yes, the software may not be well adapted for the kind of tablet/computer it comes with, but most of the times, I think it does its job. FWIW.
 
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