NeuroFeedback, NeurOptimal and Electroencephalography

nature

Dagobah Resident
Hi all!
It's been nearly 2 years I do neuroptimal (with 1-2 months pauses 3 times upon the 2 years)
and no effect at all :-(
and please don't say "but it's subtle". Always memory loss, attention deficit, I continue losing important objects (credit card, keys, ID card), irritable etc. My tinnitus even increased these last 2 years. I can't tell it's due to neuroptimal, I just note it and I don't know the reason.

I will contact Zengar and ask them.
 

Ina

The Living Force
Hi all!
It's been nearly 2 years I do neuroptimal (with 1-2 months pauses 3 times upon the 2 years)
and no effect at all :-(
and please don't say "but it's subtle". Always memory loss, attention deficit, I continue losing important objects (credit card, keys, ID card), irritable etc. My tinnitus even increased these last 2 years. I can't tell it's due to neuroptimal, I just note it and I don't know the reason.

I will contact Zengar and ask them.
I would also contact the company. However, assuming that the ‘no effect’ is an accurate observation , then keeping that variable constant (if you can afford it), and use the neurofeedback as a monitoring system, you could try changing your diet? Just an idea. Basically keep the baby and the bathtub with the water but change the soap?
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
I would also contact the company. However, assuming that the ‘no effect’ is an accurate observation , then keeping that variable constant (if you can afford it), and use the neurofeedback as a monitoring system, you could try changing your diet? Just an idea. Basically keep the baby and the bathtub with the water but change the soap?neropimal sessions.
I changed my diet long ago, before I went in neuroptimal. I've done sessions regularly since 2 years now!
Some news from Zengar (the seller of NO device): they checked the laptop, there was no virus, nothing special, the device works normally. They updated it (it has yet been updated last year and when I changed for version3 - they recommend to make the update each year, and change electrodes each year).
I asked why I didn't had any result, if there are other failed cases. He answered that the NO device is for well-being only!
So, I recommend to those who want to invest in a so pricey device designed for only well-being to contact them (you have their email edress on their website) and make it clear. It seems that the version 3 is not as good as the previous ones? I asked if they can install the previous version, he said No.
 

Aeneas

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
It seems that the version 3 is not as good as the previous ones?
Since you have had both versions and according to you haven't experienced anything, how do you then come to the idea that NO2 was better? In other words if NO2 did nothing for you and NO3 did nothing, then how was NO2 better?

For legal reasons they will have to say that it is for wellbeing only. If they would mention any benefits, they would get in trouble. That is how it is with all alternative treatment therapies, which don't come from Big Pharma.

It doesn't mean that Neuroptimal is the cure all end all and for some it might not live up to expectations. Therefore, it can be a good idea to have some sessions beforehand from a practitioner before deciding to possibly buy one. No one is forced to buy one and sessions are reasonably priced though there are big variations too.

Personally, I have found it very helpful in changing lifelong patterns of anger issues which were directed at myself. A change that my partner has noticed too. She has also been having sessions and found it helpful for her.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
Since you have had both versions and according to you haven't experienced anything, how do you then come to the idea that NO2 was better? In other words if NO2 did nothing for you and NO3 did nothing, then how was NO2 better?

It's not an affirmation, see my interrogation point, it's just a question, as older models are usually better (generally speaking, and as they don't make older models available anymore). Plus: I had much more session with NO3, only 2 months with NO2.

It doesn't mean that Neuroptimal is the cure all end all and for some it might not live up to expectations. Therefore, it can be a good idea to have some sessions beforehand from a practitioner before deciding to possibly buy one. No one is forced to buy one and sessions are reasonably priced though there are big variations too.

I had sessions beforehand with a practionner, he said that for some people many months, sometimes at least one year is necessary.

Personally, I have found it very helpful in changing lifelong patterns of anger issues which were directed at myself. A change that my partner has noticed too. She has also been having sessions and found it helpful for her.
Good for you!
 
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anka

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I have not gone through this thread properly yet so hopefully this has not been posted yet. Watched this TEDx Talk with Daniel Amen called The most important lesson from 83,000 brain scans. Although he does not mention any neurofeedback treatment and talks about brain rehabilitation (brain-smart program), I found it very inspiring in relation to NeurOptimal. As he says, it is very often the case that people come to see a doctor with various symptom but in fact it would be much better to see the scans of their brains. Even two people with totally same set of symptoms might show very different brain scans so the diagnosis as well as the following treatment would be different too, tailored to their needs.

Such a thing as a minor brain traumatic experience (physical injury and/or psychological damage) caused in various stages of one's life can express itself in behavior of the given person in such a way that might easily mislead the doctor who is trying to diagnose him/her. Therefore brain scan of people would always be useful when trying to figure out their diagnosis. If you own NO3 system, you may use the information in the video when talking to your clients but especially to your potential clients who ask what neurofeedback can do for them. Once again I realized that the saying "Neuroptimal can be good for anyone with a brain" is very appropriate.

 

PERLOU

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Si cela peut vous aider, voici les références des deux personnes avec qui j'ai commencé
Aurélia m'a loué l'appareil, est venue chez moi sur la côte d'Azur me le livrer et est venue le rechercher à la fin...
J'ai été très satisfaite de ses services et je vous la recommande ...
Je lui envoie un mail l'avertissant de notre échange, n'oubliez pas de noter mon nom Christiane de Cagnes/Mer et votre nom du forum
"YO YA"...
Chère Christiane,
Je suis heureux de vous faire savoir que j'ai trouvé un formateur qui serait heureux de discuter de la location d'un système pour vous.
Elle a dit qu'elle a de la famille dans le sud de la France, et qu'elle se rend à la mi-août, et elle pourrait vous livrer le système et vous montrer comment l'utiliser.
Voici ses coordonnées:
  • Aurélia Egretteau - Cabinet NeuroSources
  • chemin des Flombards 9A,Genève Chene Bougeries, Switzerland
  • (078) 663-2873
  • Email Trainer
  • Visit Website
  • Provides Rentals.
Veuillez me tenir au courant de vos progrès en la contactant et en louant un système.
Si vous avez des questions, n'hésitez pas à me contacter.

Bonne journée!
Cordialement,
Carol Ann Mahoney
Account Specialist
Zengar Institute Inc.
1-866-990-6784, ext: 742
514-312-5799
carolann@neuroptimal.com
Have you considered adding a rental unit to your business? Contact us for more information!

If it helps, here are the references of the two people I started with
Aurelia rented the camera, came to my home on the French Riviera, delivered it to me and went to look for it at the end ...
I was very satisfied with his services and I recommend him to you ...
I send him an email notifying him of our exchange, do not forget to note my name Christiane de Cagnes / Mer and your forum name
"YO YA" ...
 

YoYa

Jedi
Thanks, Perlou!

I already own a device.
People come to my house to do their brain training.
A second device would be necessary to start a rental process - I don't have the budget for that.

I have left the above address here, so that people from Switzerland, who move around the forum, can get the information.

It's good to know that there is also a rental offer in Geneva.

At the moment I'm working on my homepage, there I want to list all Neuroptimal-Rentals.
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi all!
It's been nearly 2 years I do neuroptimal (with 1-2 months pauses 3 times upon the 2 years)
and no effect at all :-(
and please don't say "but it's subtle". Always memory loss, attention deficit, I continue losing important objects (credit card, keys, ID card), irritable etc. My tinnitus even increased these last 2 years. I can't tell it's due to neuroptimal, I just note it and I don't know the reason.

I will contact Zengar and ask them.

I had the opportunity to use the neuroptimal V3 too so I did ~40 sessions. I didn't notice effects either except 2 small events perhaps related to NO:
- Less stress a morning at wake-up. Instead of rushing to be ready to go out and to be at time at work, I was coool. It surprised myself so I attribute it to NO.
- Another day I got the sensation my consciousness was "expending", "flowing" by the window and I was able to see what was happening in the street while still being in my bed. I attribute it to an hallucination due to a semi-conscious state of the mind induced by the relaxing music of NO. It happened once.

Except that, a side effect of the NO was to induce some stress because I had to find a slot in my journey and the only one available was before sleep so it end up inevitably in the reduction of my sleep time.

At this occasion I did notice that if I felt in sleep during the NO session, the baseline become flat so it's a proof that the activity of the awake brain is captured.

Another point I noticed is that from 1st session to the last one, I got always the same characteristic graph. Perhaps my brain is too obtuse for the NO, lol.
 

Aya

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi all,

Recently, I had a multi-user experience on NO V3. And I would like to share my own experience and get some feedback on it. Tokyo NO Office is the only one that currently does group sessions according to the team here, and that they hold the group sessions on, and off which is officially acknowledged by Zengar headquarter in Canada as far as I know.

They have done/ have been doing these group sessions for years domestically and (a rare but also internationally) so this is not the new experiment. The way they hook up the machines is called star (or staff?) formation if I remember it correctly, where they hook up the left side of sensor in the normal way (3 sensors including with earlobe), but the right side of sensor is hooked to the person lying next to them to form a circle. This means that the participants receive the mirror from a person on the left side - but since they are all connected, they are receiving feedback from everyone pretty much. Ok of course, I would like to stress here that the session was held and instructed by the local certified NO professionals.

When I did these sessions, there were 8 people (including the hosts) and there were four participants hooked up with the machines lying down, and the other four were just “listeners” so they were sitting and receiving synchronicity but not engaging. There were 4 machines/zAmp, they were all turned on at the same time.

The way they hook up the machine for these group sessions are the way that some staff members know but none of the official Zengar office does this style of hook up anymore. Hence, they said that the people in headquarters were happy to hear that when the team was still doing this style of formation. Considering this, I don't think this set-up is really explained in the public website. Another thing is that they told us is that the person in charge of NO (I forgot who) said that the group session can be a very powerful tool to create or release group energy to connect cosmically, however, this make it appears like 'love and light imagination' that this kind of thing is obviously not discussed in the official NO groups.

For the group session, there were 4 sessions held throughout the day. I was not ignoring to the fact that there could be a potential case of getting attachment from someone or something weird that could go on during the session. But I like the NO team here and the other participants were interesting “normal” people too that I didn’t feel anything awkward in that respect. The only minor complaint I have is that the music was strange in the 2nd time (sounded like insects walking around…) and not comfortable to listen for the entire time.

The representative here said having a group session is like going to “brain information buffet” that our brains are clever enough to know which information is needed from the other participants, and our brain doesn’t pick any information unwanted for ourselves during the sessions. On some occasions, people pick up on information from the other participants (subconsciously of course that they don’t notice it right away) which allows them to make different decisions, open to new opportunities or applying to actions that changes the course of their lives, and she told me about one participant who had an incredible life changing experience (but it is rare) after the group sessions.

The result of my personal experience was a kind of like when I did EE for the first time, so I was very relaxed but exhausted at the same time. I felt lots of tingling sensation for the first time, and I zoned out few times in the third session. I was a little bit expecting if there would be any interesting thoughts or synchronicity would occur, but I couldn't notice anything else at the time or after.

I am contemplating to join another group session this year because in the last session, I was not in the best health condition that resulted me to feel the session just a plain tired and didn’t notice anything.

While this is interesting experiment and I would love to try again when I feel less tired and to see if I will notice anything, maybe some might say that I should be “careful” or something. I would like to hear in case anyone has any input on this (or could you please share the experience if any?), just to be sure that I am not getting involved in something too weird.

Thank you!
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Considering this, I don't think this set-up is really explained in the public website.

I know that Val from Zengar has done these ‘star’ multiuser sessions in the past (he mentioned these in one of the interviews, I think it was the Health show). He hasn’t much elaborated other than saying that it was an interesting experiment.

I have done a similar experiment with my wife, where we hooked us together onto the one machine. Didn’t really feel much difference, though, so gave that one up.
 

fabric

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I think it was the Health show). He hasn’t much elaborated other than saying that it was an interesting experiment.


Yes, it was this show here: The Health & Wellness Show: Interview With Dr. Valdeane Brown - Nonlinear Dynamic Thinking With NeurOptimal Neurofeedback -- Sott.net

He gets into it a bit in the last 3rd.

It would be interesting to try, although I'd imagine you'd need a number of sessions before noticing anything. And you'd probably want to have some background on the people you are doing with, just as a precaution.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Another point I noticed is that from 1st session to the last one, I got always the same characteristic graph. Perhaps my brain is too obtuse for the NO, lol.
@Ellipse ,

I have only done NO once and it came out that I was balanced (which surprised me). Maybe it is because you are in relative good shape that you do not notice any dramatic changes. Rather than "obtuse" you may be blessed with a fairly balanced brain. I think sometimes we over react to what we need. Maybe you do not really need NO that much.

I have an adopted grandson who was a shaken baby and I wonder what NO might do to help him recover. You know we are not all in need of every therapy treatment but when needed there are many that may help.
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
@Ellipse ,

I have only done NO once and it came out that I was balanced (which surprised me). Maybe it is because you are in relative good shape that you do not notice any dramatic changes. Rather than "obtuse" you may be blessed with a fairly balanced brain. I think sometimes we over react to what we need. Maybe you do not really need NO that much.

I have an adopted grandson who was a shaken baby and I wonder what NO might do to help him recover. You know we are not all in need of every therapy treatment but when needed there are many that may help.
I don't know, but I don't find myself perfectly equilibrated on some points. And the graph was clearly and always more pronounced on the same side. Anyway, by myself I did not felt changes on the long run.
 
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