NSA Leaks, Edward Snowden: Genuine whistleblower or psy-op?

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/president-obama-tries-to-calm-fears-over-prism-programme--that-mines-private-data-from-google-apple-youtube-and-facebook-8648744.html

Central servers of nine leading US internet companies are accessed in Prism programme

Barack Obama has defended the US government’s previously undisclosed eavesdropping operations put in place in the years since the 9/11 terrorist attacks and dismissed reporting of them as “hype”.

“No one is listening to your phone calls,” Obama insisted, taking a break from his planned schedule while visiting California to address the fast-growing controversy.

“The people who are involved in America’s national security, they take this work very seriously; they cherish our constitution.”

The White House and the agencies directly involved, notably the National Security Agency, NSA, are trying to keep up with leaks about two programmes: one that sweeps up details of US calls handled by phone giant Verizon and another that monitors foreigners’ data such as emails, photos and chats flowing through the servers of internet firms like Apple, Google and Microsoft, using a programme known as Prism.

Obama dismissed some of the reporting of these programmes as “hype” and sought cover from the fact that all of them had been authorised by Congress. The revelations are bound to trigger a new debate in Washington about the presumption of privacy in America and if it exists any more. It also comes at a tricky time for Mr Obama who is already dealing with other stumbles including the undisclosed gathering of phone records of journalists covering security affairs.

Mr Obama said he welcomed debate on “balancing the need to keep the American people safe and our concerns about privacy, because they are some trade-offs involved”. But he added: “You can’t have a hundred per cent security and also then have a hundred privacy and zero inconvenience.”

The head of the publicity-averse NSA, James Clapper, took the unusual step of declassifying some of the details of the phone-data programme that monitors the calls of millions of Americans under order from a special Foreign Intelligence Service or FISA Court. In a statement he scolded: “The unauthorised disclosure of information about this important and entirely legal program is reprehensible.”

Mr Clapper spoke of “numerous inaccuracies” in the reporting of the internet oversight programme, PRISM, which seeks out terror leads in places such as social network sites. “It cannot be used to intentionally target any US citizen, any other US person, or anyone located within the United States,” he said.

Senator Rand Paul, a hero of the Tea Party and libertarian wing of the Republican Party called the accessing of Verizon telephone data “an astounding assault on the Constitution”, and vowed to table legislation to rein in the NSA. But others were more sanguine.

“If you’re not getting a call from a terrorist organisation, you got nothing to worry about,” said Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham.
Well, yeah.
 

Mal7

Dagobah Resident
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

My thinking is that I will keep my Facebook. If people only question and discuss things like the war on terror or a war on Iran in secretive huddles under the cone-of-silence (that's a reference to the "Get Smart" television show), it will be relatively easy to round up those infidels and put them away somewhere. If everyone, or a significant proportion of the population, are openly discussing those issues on Facebook, it is a little harder to put the whole lot of them away.
 

Rich

The Living Force
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Mal7 said:
My thinking is that I will keep my Facebook. If people only question and discuss things like the war on terror or a war on Iran in secretive huddles under the cone-of-silence (that's a reference to the "Get Smart" television show), it will be relatively easy to round up those infidels and put them away somewhere. If everyone, or a significant proportion of the population, are openly discussing those issues on Facebook, it is a little harder to put the whole lot of them away.
Agree with you Mal7. I think there is a 'Be fearful we are watching you' message that is being delivered here along with an intent to enforce obedient acceptance of: 'you have no right to privacy' and 'we will keep you safe from TerrorTM'. I also find the timing interesting given that this 'leak' coincides with the Bilderberg meeting in Watford, London, since I'm sure they will have the surveillance/protest topic on their agenda.
 

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Mal7 said:
If people only question and discuss things like the war on terror or a war on Iran in secretive huddles under the cone-of-silence (that's a reference to the "Get Smart" television show), it will be relatively easy to round up those infidels and put them away somewhere. If everyone, or a significant proportion of the population, are openly discussing those issues on Facebook, it is a little harder to put the whole lot of them away.
Agreed on that.

But do you really believe it is just about Islamist terrorism? Maybe today ... And tomorrow, what's next?
And, is it really the whole picture they are giving out here? Hard to believe, imho.

The thought alone that there is absolutely no conscience to just freely access the data drives me to cancel my Googlemail account.
You wouldn't allow any stranger just to come into your home, or would you?

M.T.
 

Arne

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Or what if they are leaking this now is a psyop plot to make us shut up? I`m not encouraging anything illegal on my FB account and not doing anything illegal in my private life. So I keep on posting. They already got my profile years ago, I guess. :)
 

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Aquilla said:
Or what if they are leaking this now is a psyop plot to make us shut up? I`m not encouraging anything illegal on my FB account and not doing anything illegal in my private life. So I keep on posting. They already got my profile years ago, I guess. :)
Legal issues can turn illegal in a minute. Before 9/11 militant Islamism was just one of many forms of "opposing a system".
One day after it became something completely different.

Yes, shutting people up might be part of the plan, too.

M.T.
 

Arne

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Minas Tirith said:
Aquilla said:
Or what if they are leaking this now is a psyop plot to make us shut up? I`m not encouraging anything illegal on my FB account and not doing anything illegal in my private life. So I keep on posting. They already got my profile years ago, I guess. :)
Legal issues can turn illegal in a minute. Before 9/11 militant Islamism was just one of many forms of "opposing a system".
One day after it became something completely different.

Yes, shutting people up might be part of the plan, too.

M.T.
Yeah, I know. But it aint illegal yet.
 

Rich

The Living Force
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Aquilla said:
Or what if they are leaking this now is a psyop plot to make us shut up?
That was my thought on this too. Especially in light of social media use in Turkey that Erdogan was critical of. I mention Bilderberg because according to: http://www.sott.net/article/262396-Bilderberg-2013-Watford-London-Full-attendee-list, attending are:
Craig J. Mundie, Senior Advisor to the CEO, Microsoft Corporation
Eric E. Schmidt, Executive Chairman, Google Inc.
I find it hard to believe that the top surveillance security agency would fall victim to the release of ANY communications unless it was intentional.
 

darksai

Jedi Master
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Aquilla said:
Minas Tirith said:
Aquilla said:
Or what if they are leaking this now is a psyop plot to make us shut up? I`m not encouraging anything illegal on my FB account and not doing anything illegal in my private life. So I keep on posting. They already got my profile years ago, I guess. :)
Legal issues can turn illegal in a minute. Before 9/11 militant Islamism was just one of many forms of "opposing a system".
One day after it became something completely different.

Yes, shutting people up might be part of the plan, too.

M.T.
Yeah, I know. But it aint illegal yet.
Just gave me a chilling thought, they could introduce a "law" to allow themselves to retro-prosecute on newly introduced laws.
 

Arne

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Saieden said:
Aquilla said:
Minas Tirith said:
Aquilla said:
Or what if they are leaking this now is a psyop plot to make us shut up? I`m not encouraging anything illegal on my FB account and not doing anything illegal in my private life. So I keep on posting. They already got my profile years ago, I guess. :)
Legal issues can turn illegal in a minute. Before 9/11 militant Islamism was just one of many forms of "opposing a system".
One day after it became something completely different.

Yes, shutting people up might be part of the plan, too.

M.T.
Yeah, I know. But it ain't illegal yet.
Just gave me a chilling thought, they could introduce a "law" to allow themselves to retro-prosecute on newly introduced laws.
Jepp, I know. But are we all gonna go silent then?
 

Carl

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Pob said:
Mal7 said:
My thinking is that I will keep my Facebook. If people only question and discuss things like the war on terror or a war on Iran in secretive huddles under the cone-of-silence (that's a reference to the "Get Smart" television show), it will be relatively easy to round up those infidels and put them away somewhere. If everyone, or a significant proportion of the population, are openly discussing those issues on Facebook, it is a little harder to put the whole lot of them away.
Agree with you Mal7. I think there is a 'Be fearful we are watching you' message that is being delivered here along with an intent to enforce obedient acceptance of: 'you have no right to privacy' and 'we will keep you safe from TerrorTM'. I also find the timing interesting given that this 'leak' coincides with the Bilderberg meeting in Watford, London, since I'm sure they will have the surveillance/protest topic on their agenda.
As far as I'm concerned, these creeps can spy on me all they want. I think a big part of this is actually making people fearful of speaking out.

I remember as a teenager when I was first getting into this conspiracy stuff, I was really full of fear of the bad guys who control our world, and all this awful stuff they're planning. Since coming here though, I've noticed an entirely different attitude. One of just sadness and contempt for the psychos, but also humor at the ridiculousness of the whole situation. Maybe I've just become jaded, but no matter what tricks they pull out, I'm still gonna keep doing what is in me to do. That is learning, trying to develop myself, and networking with people who also want change.

Sure, stories like this should be shared and discussed, but we don't need the attitude of fear and paranoia that comes with them, which seems an inseparable part sometimes.
 

Psalehesost

The Living Force
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Aquilla said:
Jepp, I know. But are we all gonna go silent then?
To go silent out of fear is to sell out, to buy (an illusion of) physical security at the cost of integrity and everything that is worthwhile.

If we stop doing what matters, we might as well be dead. I'd much rather take a small risk of being killed at some point by the PTB than to die inside at this moment.
 

darksai

Jedi Master
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Aquilla said:
Jepp, I know. But are we all gonna go silent then?
I guess it depends, if an army of drones goes awol and starts blowing up people for posting authority-dissenting FB posts, I think I'd probably lay off the social media for a while.
 

whitecoast

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Psalehesost said:
Aquilla said:
Jepp, I know. But are we all gonna go silent then?
To go silent out of fear is to sell out, to buy (an illusion of) physical security at the cost of integrity and everything that is worthwhile.

If we stop doing what matters, we might as well be dead. I'd much rather take a small risk of being killed at some point by the PTB than to die inside at this moment.
A very good reminder that we should try no to focus on the body, which is what all this intimidation is meant to do, I think.

I actually have been pretty silent for many years leading up up to more recent invents, due to the paranoia issues I had at the time (which retrospectively appeared to be spot on). I've kind of started to regret that but that's a waste of time so now I just share and warn whenever I can.
 

SMM

The Living Force
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Carlise said:
Pob said:
Mal7 said:
My thinking is that I will keep my Facebook. If people only question and discuss things like the war on terror or a war on Iran in secretive huddles under the cone-of-silence (that's a reference to the "Get Smart" television show), it will be relatively easy to round up those infidels and put them away somewhere. If everyone, or a significant proportion of the population, are openly discussing those issues on Facebook, it is a little harder to put the whole lot of them away.
Agree with you Mal7. I think there is a 'Be fearful we are watching you' message that is being delivered here along with an intent to enforce obedient acceptance of: 'you have no right to privacy' and 'we will keep you safe from TerrorTM'. I also find the timing interesting given that this 'leak' coincides with the Bilderberg meeting in Watford, London, since I'm sure they will have the surveillance/protest topic on their agenda.
As far as I'm concerned, these creeps can spy on me all they want. I think a big part of this is actually making people fearful of speaking out.

I remember as a teenager when I was first getting into this conspiracy stuff, I was really full of fear of the bad guys who control our world, and all this awful stuff they're planning. Since coming here though, I've noticed an entirely different attitude. One of just sadness and contempt for the psychos, but also humor at the ridiculousness of the whole situation. Maybe I've just become jaded, but no matter what tricks they pull out, I'm still gonna keep doing what is in me to do. That is learning, trying to develop myself, and networking with people who also want change.

Sure, stories like this should be shared and discussed, but we don't need the attitude of fear and paranoia that comes with them, which seems an inseparable part sometimes.
You put it well Carlise, Pob & Mal7. In the last year of my teens I know no one personally whose interested in any of this. It isn't any useful an expenditure to see anything & everything as an attack, growing fearful, then to follow by acting on that [in]sight, as that's sort of assisting the bad guys in their aims. My attitude towards this, & consequently life, is in constant mutation although I do feel more removed physically from many interactions I used to participate in.
Yet postings or discussions on Facebook & discussing with people things that are going on really isn't going to change what they, the bad guys, do or try to do - it gives a chance for word to reach others.
 
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